143 réponses à ce sujet

[Timortis]

Gabochido wrote...
Just out of curiosity, what kind of a loot system do you think would make the game more enjoyable and satisfying? I'm sure the feedback could come in useful for future development.

What bothered me was that all the good stuff was in the stores selling for a lot of gold, and bosses dropped crappy loot. I think it's satisfying to loot a boss's corpse and find an exceptional item. In this game, that rarely happens, and instead you immediately sell everything you loot from bosses for gold, to save towards items in the stores.

[Wintermist]

Georg Zoeller wrote...

There is some ridiculously good loot, but it's not to be found in the rainbarrel behind the tavern

Generally, loot will improve over time, but the overall direction of the economy is a land ravaged by war and civil war, meaning vendors will gauge you, people will try to take advantage of the situation and so on.

Don't worry though, by the time you reach mid game or wander around in denerim, you can find a pretty coin or valuable item by unlocking chests or picking pockets - but it'll never be a monty haul like NWN, something we specifically went out to avoid.

The point is rather that we want the normal loot that drops to be more interesting and varied. As it stand there are only 1 model of each, with a color tint for different metals. (Which I never liked because I want my armor to look silverish, so either I use silverite or steel, making me lack defensive power in 5 cases out of 7).

More variation.

[Shannara13]

Gabochido wrote...

If the game constantly gives you powerful or valuable loot, then it becomes too easy or you end up with a ton of useless cash (since you would have bought everything you needed). If we limit the number of lootable corpses and chests then you might feel there's just not enough loot!

We made DA to give you a large number of loots so you can gather a nice collection of things to use or sell, but the power and value has to be kept down so the game remains a challenge and buying items involves important choices. The special items must be rare enough to feel special otherwise they just get lost in the crow and having chests that contain generic stuff make the ones that contain special stuff all the more special.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of a loot system do you think would make the game more enjoyable and satisfying? I'm sure the feedback could come in useful for future development.

My problem with the loot system is that my mage ended up using the same equipment all the way from lvl 10 to lvl 20.

[Gill Kaiser]

I thought that the frequency by which truly unique loot was found in Dragon Age was very good. What I wish is that there were more unique armour and weapon models. For example, at the very least the 'Named' armour and weaponry should all have unique models. I understand that modelling is a time-consuming and expensive process, but I really think that unique models add to the enjoyment of finding and using rare items.

I also wish that there were some way to make it so disparate armour pieces would fit the same colour scheme. Maybe a rudimentary dye system, or an NPC you could talk to who would change your items colour schemes. I can't wear the Helm of Honnleath with the Silverite Warden Commander's Armour because the colours don't match, so I have to choose between roleplaying and wearing the best kit.

[Gill Kaiser]

I thought that the frequency by which truly unique loot was found in Dragon Age was very good. What I wish is that there were more unique armour and weapon models. For example, at the very least the 'Named' armour and weaponry should all have unique models. I understand that modelling is a time-consuming and expensive process, but I really think that unique models add to the enjoyment of finding and using rare items.

I also wish that there were some way to make it so disparate armour pieces would fit the same colour scheme. Maybe a rudimentary dye system, or an NPC you could talk to who would change your items colour schemes. I can't wear the Helm of Honnleath with the Silverite Warden Commander's Armour because the colours don't match, so I have to choose between roleplaying and wearing the best kit.

[Medet]

Shannara13 wrote...

My problem with the loot system is that my mage ended up using the same equipment all the way from lvl 10 to lvl 20.

This, with some minor exceptions. It was the same for my warrior as well. I didn't really feel a sense of progress with equipment after a certain point reletively early in the game.

[Bsett100]

Georg Zoeller wrote...
- but it'll never be a monty haul like NWN, something we specifically went out to avoid.

As someone who has spent hundreds of dollars over several years for both online and offline gaming. I can assure you that what you are going to "avoid" is my continuation of the game. Granted I am just one person and my loss won't have much of an impact. You should take a close look at games like Diablo that managed to keep peoples interest peeked for long periods of time. The reason people played for so long "ITEM LUST". Knowing that there was a chance of that umber unique item dropping on the next kill. Granted the structure of DAO is such that replay is different in that you re-roll trying different classes and races following varied quest lines.
 
If you want to keep my interest peeked so I stay around until that next piece of DLC or expansion comes out give me the illusion that my  next play through has a chance of rewarding me with some dream item. Sure I can go into the toolkit and just make myself whatever godly item I wish but that’s just not the same as after some epic fight looting something that is really nice.
 
Have nicer items and sets drop at harder difficulty levels to motivate people into playing them. You could also have two different loot tables. One as you have designed now and one with for those with "item lust" like myself with the option to choose. Sure that is  going to be extra design work but you do what to keep as many of us around for as long as possible right? I mean if we are not here how are we going to be able to buy your DLC's.
 

[MrIsidor]

I see some are happy with the loot and don't want it changed, and I'm willing to agree to that.

I finished my first playthrough (110+ hours as female human noble rogue) two days ago and I actually liked not having to change equipment after every other lvlup. I must say it was a relief to not have to focus on getting the best equipment all the time, but instead be able to focus more on the story and the character development. (I guess only playing on normal diffculty might also have helped in that case)
Just as I get attached to my characters, I also sometimes get attached to their equipment. It was indeed a sad moment when I found a better sword than the family sword from the origin story and put the family sword to rest in my backpack.
"The guildmaster belt" and "lucky stone" I had from start to finish (lvl 1 - 22), which might indicate that the extra dlc items is overpowered, but I don't think they give too much of an advantage, so I have no problem with them.
I also liked Leliana in the dalish bikini armor and was quite happy to never have to put anything else on her.
It was also fitting that Loghain's orlesian armour was good enough for him to wear until the end of the game. After all, he has had that armour since the battle at the river Dane and it would be silly that he suddenly would swap to something else just like that.

Something that did annoy me on a few occasions however, was the limited carrying capacity before you found enough extra backpacks. I ran back to a vendor to sell loot several times while exploring the dalish forest and ruins and that was a bit annoying, to put it nicely.
But to sum things up, there really was only one thing that bothered me with the loot in the game. Why do darkspawn and animals carry around coins?

[Count Viceroy]

Well they eat their kills so it's only fair to assume they'd swallow coin, how they swallow whole armor pieces and weapons is another matter entierly...

[yohoia]

I agree.

Hanover Fist 1970 wrote...

Gabochido wrote...

If the game constantly gives you powerful or valuable loot, then it becomes too easy or you end up with a ton of useless cash (since you would have bought everything you needed). If we limit the number of lootable corpses and chests then you might feel there's just not enough loot!

We made DA to give you a large number of loots so you can gather a nice collection of things to use or sell, but the power and value has to be kept down so the game remains a challenge and buying items involves important choices. The special items must be rare enough to feel special otherwise they just get lost in the crow and having chests that contain generic stuff make the ones that contain special stuff all the more special.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of a loot system do you think would make the game more enjoyable and satisfying? I'm sure the feedback could come in useful for future development.

Let me first say I love the game I find it to be a very good work of art. The one and only gripe I can even muster in regards to loot.

The progression of loot collecting suffers in DA:o, example, after obtaining starfang at an early level, I'm still using it at 19. For me, It's not about uberloot every where so much as feeling I'm progressing to something better in the next level.
I just feel that I should be changing equipment on a more regular basis, not everytime I turn around mind you ,but certainly more than just a few times through out an entire game. 

[Valfreyja]

yohoia wrote...

I agree.

Hanover Fist 1970 wrote...

Gabochido wrote...

If the game constantly gives you powerful or valuable loot, then it becomes too easy or you end up with a ton of useless cash (since you would have bought everything you needed). If we limit the number of lootable corpses and chests then you might feel there's just not enough loot!

We made DA to give you a large number of loots so you can gather a nice collection of things to use or sell, but the power and value has to be kept down so the game remains a challenge and buying items involves important choices. The special items must be rare enough to feel special otherwise they just get lost in the crow and having chests that contain generic stuff make the ones that contain special stuff all the more special.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of a loot system do you think would make the game more enjoyable and satisfying? I'm sure the feedback could come in useful for future development.

Let me first say I love the game I find it to be a very good work of art. The one and only gripe I can even muster in regards to loot.

The progression of loot collecting suffers in DA:o, example, after obtaining starfang at an early level, I'm still using it at 19. For me, It's not about uberloot every where so much as feeling I'm progressing to something better in the next level.
I just feel that I should be changing equipment on a more regular basis, not everytime I turn around mind you ,but certainly more than just a few times through out an entire game. 

Or like not at all when you get the blood armor, GW commander armor -and- Starfang. Fortunately the GW armor and Starfang both look incredibly awesome so I don't mind being stuck with them.

I'll say this though. I've rarely been disappointed over the big bosses loot drops in games and unfortunately I have been in DAO. Most of what Flemeth and the High Dragon dropped can be summed up with the word useless or semi-useful. A bit disappointing considering the difficulty in taking down both.

[Genraku]

I think its a toss up between having a huge variety vs the way to distribute them, I think one thing that is lacking is the sheer number of armor choices you had in a game like Bg2, granted there was a lot of great loot dropping like apples in that game, there were always peaces that caught your eye and were treasured.



I think one thing that frustrates people is the lack of a gear scale, its frustrating to see rogues and mages using the same armor for most of the game for sheer lack of anything to upgrade it with, and in regards to the DLC items, I dont think the problem is they're too powerful, i think the problem is that there are so few items that compete with them.

Going back to bg2 (I spent too much time on that game o.o) I remember really enjoying weapons like the silver sword, Caorsomyr, and ravager(gave it to saravok and watched things explode =D) and they felt equivalent, they were all good for specific situations, same with the armor, I'd love to have our rogues have an honest contender to replace felon's coat or wade's dragonscale armor, it was fun not only to be able to find upgrades to armor, but be able to have it be comparable to what you were wearing., and be worth the effort you put into it. In bg2, you kill a dragon and the loot that drops WILL be equipped by someone in your party, (someone used Carsomyr,red dragon plate, the elven chain mail, Celestial fury was one of my favourite weapons out of princeple.) But I digress, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the ideal stystem would have loot work its wy up to the DLC quality rather than simply jump from a common tier4 plate to blood dragon armor, It would be nice to have things that were SIDE grades and not necessarily upgrades, items that are as good, but itemized for a different role perhaps to give the player more choice in gearing, rather than be such a clear upgrade as to make other items obsolete. Starfang is a fun weapon, but I couldnt fidn many 2h weapons that could match it, and the process in achieving it seems too quick for a sword"the likes of which ferelden has never seen, and likely never will" I'm almost wishing the process to get it was as involved as that of getting Crom Faeyr in bg2 as it was dificult to get early in the game, as well as being one of the top weapons of its type.



I will concede that BG2 had a ton of magic items laying about, and DA:o takes place in a less mage-rific world so having such a large number of powerful items may be counter to the world Ferelden is supposed to be, but DA could stasnd to have more veriety in loot, and could use another look at the effort:reward ratio

(would it be too much to ask to give us a quest that rewards an upgrade to some of these dlc but has a strong enough story to stand alone without needing the loot to justify it? I always did the shadowthieves guild quest in bg2 because it was fun, the quest was as much a reward as the loot from it.)

[D3thray]

Putting the best loot in the game on vendors for what would seem to be exorbitant prices would be one way of keeping loot rare if it weren't possible for the player to make as much gold as they wanted thru crafting.  I just give myself gold with the console anymore just to save travel time since I know I could legitimately get all that gold anyway If I sat thru a few load screens.

[Thanaeon]

Personally I enjoy the fact that gear power doesn't increase exponentially or even geometrically like it does in so many other games, MMOs being a particularly bad culprit.



"So, wait a minute. If I hit that guy with a sword, he gets a wound, but if I hit him with a sword made from a more expensive material in the exact same way, he explodes into fine red mist? What's up with that, anyway?"



Yeah, I appreciate greatly the fact that Bioware went for a subtler, less hyperbolic itemisation scheme. Now, good stuff is worth using but character abilities are at least as important, probably more so. Which is the way it's supposed to be, as far as I'm concerned.

[Wintermist]

It's not the weapon "power" that bothers me, it's that I want more designs of everything.

[Forsakerr]

hOnOr wrote...

Gabochido wrote...

Just out of curiosity, what kind of a loot system do you think would make the game more enjoyable and satisfying? I'm sure the feedback could come in useful for future development.

1. The best stuff in the game should not be on vendors.  It should drop off dragons (bosses).
2. When I kill a boss or mini-boss, I should get something "good".
3. If something attacks me with a huge maul (for example), if I kill that thing, I should get the maul (take the Guardian for example).
4. There should be random, rare and very rare, high-quality drops.

no way i want number 4 randoms loot reminds me way to much of killing raid bosses  since we cant redo klling those boss mini boss i dont want to end up with a + 25% spirit damage thing when none of my chars do that kind of damage and be nailed in that playtrough (this is an exemple)  VERY bad idea 

[Mythgaard]

Gabochido wrote...

If the game constantly gives you powerful or valuable loot, then it becomes too easy or you end up with a ton of useless cash (since you would have bought everything you needed). If we limit the number of lootable corpses and chests then you might feel there's just not enough loot!

We made DA to give you a large number of loots so you can gather a nice collection of things to use or sell, but the power and value has to be kept down so the game remains a challenge and buying items involves important choices. The special items must be rare enough to feel special otherwise they just get lost in the crow and having chests that contain generic stuff make the ones that contain special stuff all the more special.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of a loot system do you think would make the game more enjoyable and satisfying? I'm sure the feedback could come in useful for future development.

1. Items: My only real beef with Gear drops is that there are soooo many barely different versions of the same thing, all of which consume the very limited inventory space.

2. Crafting drops. Heres one of my two big beefs. Seriously, a locked chest that contains -one- mushroom, and nothing else? This is buzzkill plus. There are practically zero craft drops in the game (why the hell dont spiders drop Toxin?) and the scattered, far too rare few there are are almost universally single drops.
2b. Craft items: Theres a lot of them, you cant really store them if you like to actually use the craft skills (I know, crazy right?) and this contributes to the inventory hassle (yet more micromanaging) which is of course compounded by the rarity of most of the items, so that for the first 15 levels youre effective inventory is taking a massive hit storing items that you want to collect so you can use your craft skills...once you can a) afford the recipes, and manage to scrounge enough mats to make more than a single trap or two doses of tier one poison. Underwhelming at best.

3. Vendor Trash. Is trash. Seriously, it isnt even worth picking up. Why is that? Logic dictates I'd be better off hoarding a couple of stacks of gems and some carpets and spendy vases, but nope, theyre worth diddly squat. Carting around 90 different bits of crap armor and gear is the way to make the big bucks. Meh. And on the subject of gems, why the hell are some of them arbitrarily turn-in's for the Dwarven army, while others arent? Couldnt you have at least marked which were turn ins after the Dwarves are onboard?

4. Gifts. While these are just another bit of micromanagement (party member morale), I dont mind that so much, except for the fact that they come in huge spurts on one of the many lengthy dungeon crawls during which you will never see a merchant, so; fight...loot half...destroy some stuff...damn 15 gifts and what the hell are these keys I've been carrying around since Denerim, and 8 different types of arrows, and eight different types of bolts...and oh yeah, these crafting mats I'll apparently get to use some time around the end of the game...and loot the other half of the bodies, and destroy a few things...

5. Runes. K, pretty sure I'm good for novice runes by now, and I'm pretty sure that creepy tranquil made a threat against my life if I turned in another. Of course theres also a ton of versions of those, which means more time in the inventory screen, and of course they -do- come in multiple grades. Fun, but not really.

6. Vendors. Most dont restock. A few carry limitless supplies of one or two ingredients, so sure, pretty much at the end of the game you can beam all over the country to craft. Most, apparently, have a stock that upgrades as you progress in level...but not if you bought it early, because they dont restock. Anything. Ever.
Those 3 Lesser Healing Poultices and that Crappy Lowbie Dagger Thats A Marginal Upgrade (that just may have been the Uberkickass Dagger if only I had waited) are the only things that poor Merchant will ever see in his entire career, apparently, except for the crap I sell him. You think the US economy is in trouble? Ferelden is just flat out screwed.

Inventory Management, the Game! Also known as "Pointless Pain in the Ass".<_<

[stnick80]

S3RV0 wrote...

That would be a perfectly valid point if there actually was good rare loot.

As it stands now; I'm lvl 21 playing on nightmare right at the end of the game and I'm still wearing Blood Dragon armor, Warden's Commander armor and using Starfang... all DLC items.

Legion of the Dead armor is bad, Epic Dragonscale (forget the exact name) is bad other than +fire resists (ironically, if I was able to get enough fire resist to kill the dragons in the first place... do I really need more?) etc. It was extremely disappointing to kill the High Dragon and see a massive loot table of crap items. It was equally disappointing to kill the Brood Mother and get a +healing plate chest piece. whoopidy doo.

Also on the note of loot, please show the hard numbers for set bonuses. It's very annoying to have to write down my stats, equip a piece of armor to complete a set and add up what stats have changed to get an accurate detail of the set bonuses. ie instead of saying "grants an increase to constitution and attack", simply put "+5con +3attack" etc

Exactly how I feel.  Nothing like killing a High Dragon and being rewarded with a bunch of loot you will not use.  I believe I used one piece of it on one of the NPCs.   

Obtaining the dragon scale to craft FR armor that you will not need after the dragon fight is silly.

The loot from the Brood Mother was so lackluster I didn't even remember what it was.  I'll assume it was what the above poster said.

I started my second playthrough as a 2H warrior.  By level 7 I had obtained Starfang 2H and could equip the Blood Dragon Armor.... 

[Baalzie]

About loot one single thing:

Itemsets for mages!



Everyobe else has'em...

But mages? Nooooo...

Bah! classism!

[BringwinD]

Come to think of it, NWN series had even better loot then DA:O.. And thats with following DnD styled loot.

[Majspuffen]

Gabochido wrote...

Just out of curiosity, what kind of a loot system do you think would make the game more enjoyable and satisfying? I'm sure the feedback could come in useful for future development.

I like the loot system. It feels rewarding solving a puzzle or killing a boss when there's better-than-average loot waiting for you. I always gather as much loot as I can just to sell it, but I often find upgrades anyhow. Minor upgrades, but upgrades still. 

The only feedback I can give is this:
Create more puzzles and bosses. Puzzles that leads to bosses. Bosses that introduces you to puzzles. With nice shiny things waiting for you at the end.

[Ellzedd]

I generally understand the realism approach.

However...!

Whilst i understand that you wont be finding the ultimate one-hit sword of Darkspawn slaying or the armour of immortality in some broken chest in some dudes house, there needs to be a balance. Meaning that you might (probably should) find these items of awesome on powerful creatures. Broodmother, High dragon etc etc. And there's nothing.

There's items out there, i discovered LOADS on my third playthrough but they were all over 100g's each and from vendors that unlock after a specific plot point or level. Now, raising the cash to buy one of these items is tough, let alone two! I've pretty much discovered all legit ways to make cash, after four playthroughs im really not missing anything at all. But it's still scarce - which you may argue it should be.

However. As i've said before the system is fine but there needs to be a balance, there are powerful items where im not sure there should be and crap ones off bigger boss drops. There's also no choices for some classes/slots. Mauls suck, as do axes. There's little in the way of powerful robes and light armours even helms. The very few rings/necks are expensive vendor items.

Then there is DLC / collectors... All thew DLC uniques are just awesome, between Bergins honor, blood dragon plate, final reason, the +2 all stat helm, ring and some rogue gear... Not to mention Starfang. All of which you can probably have by level 6-7. So pretty much right away.

You're immediatly kitted out in the best the game has to offer. And after 30+ hours of game time you're sick of vendoring off rogue daggers and studded leather drops from locked chests. Anyone agree?

then there is the issue of repetitive-ness, there's nothing (besides my huge love for the game and different endings) to really go back and replay for it's extremely repetitive, even the random encounters have a habbit of triggering when you expect them to more or less. The mob spawns in zones are always in the same locations / same groups. There's little left to chance or random.

It'd be nice to go back to a zone and see a creature i did not see the last time. More random powerful boss-type mob spawns would be nice. I'd like to feel suprised. The much loved "Rare-elite" spawn approach that has been so successful in almost every RPG.

More items that are extremely hard to find or obtain due to complicated quest-lines or extremely rare monster spawns in zone X.

Modifié par Ellzedd, 20 novembre 2009 - 03:19 .

[Zoe Dedweth]

Am I the only one who likes the fact that loot doesn't dramatically change ? I love finding magic items as much as the next guy, but it's actually nice to have a world where a chain shirt and a regular old non magical sword is the norm instead of every item being magical, like so many other games. It makes it a bit more Gritty. I suppose you could call Dragon Age a Low magic setting - "there's magic weapons and armor, but not many, there's mages, but not many, there's powerful magic - but it's tightly controlled." Basically magic is tightly controlled, not like games like Diablo or oblivion where you find tons of enchanted stuff.

[Bsett100]

MrIsidor wrote...
Just as I get attached to my characters, I also sometimes get attached to their equipment. It was indeed a sad moment when I found a better sword than the family sword from the origin story and put the family sword to rest in my backpack.
"The guildmaster belt" and "lucky stone" I had from start to finish (lvl 1 - 22),

Thats all fine and good if you enjoy the game that way but what is the point of even having loot if your are not going to get anything better then what you start with?

[9r33n]

Gabochido wrote...

If the game constantly gives you powerful or valuable loot, then it becomes too easy or you end up with a ton of useless cash (since you would have bought everything you needed). If we limit the number of lootable corpses and chests then you might feel there's just not enough loot!

We made DA to give you a large number of loots so you can gather a nice collection of things to use or sell, but the power and value has to be kept down so the game remains a challenge and buying items involves important choices. The special items must be rare enough to feel special otherwise they just get lost in the crow and having chests that contain generic stuff make the ones that contain special stuff all the more special.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of a loot system do you think would make the game more enjoyable and satisfying? I'm sure the feedback could come in useful for future development.

Locked chests should have better stuff, worth ranging from 25 to 100 silvers pieces depending of the lock difficulty.

Everything an enemy has should be lootable, but also everything he has should have a random change of breaking and become useless when he dies by physical of magical damage.

This would be my system, of course then the price system from stores should be redefined.

Modifié par 9r33n, 08 décembre 2009 - 04:50 .