143 réponses à ce sujet

[9r33n]

iKral wrote...

Gabochido wrote...

If the game constantly gives you powerful or valuable loot, then it becomes too easy or you end up with a ton of useless cash (since you would have bought everything you needed). If we limit the number of lootable corpses and chests then you might feel there's just not enough loot!

We made DA to give you a large number of loots so you can gather a nice collection of things to use or sell, but the power and value has to be kept down so the game remains a challenge and buying items involves important choices. The special items must be rare enough to feel special otherwise they just get lost in the crow and having chests that contain generic stuff make the ones that contain special stuff all the more special.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of a loot system do you think would make the game more enjoyable and satisfying? I'm sure the feedback could come in useful for future development.

Well to respond in short:  I think that loot tables ala Diablo have been a weak and unrealistic method of controlling wealth acquisition outside of the Diablo series itself.

Personally I would prefer to see the next big DA release incorporate full looting instead of rolling on a loot table.  As an example of what I mean I point to BG2.  Dead mobs should have all their possessions lootable, and they should be counted as actually using the equipment or items that they possess (health poultices, lyrium, or even poisons).

If this were implemented I would be greatly more satisfied with the level of immersion in the game.  As it is when I pick up a health poultice off of a shade or wolf or the like it really kills the experience of searching the dead for equipment or items.

BG 1 & BG2 ... sooooo true

Yyour character didnt became UBER RICH or anything (especially in BG 1), there just wasnt enough space to carry everything and weapons and armor werent so expensive to buy or sell.

There were also loots of powerful enemies you could fight or avoid; and they had awesome loot.

Making all possesions lootable is more immersion IMO, maybe a chance of items getting broken after the enemies fall dead could balance things up.

Modifié par 9r33n, 08 décembre 2009 - 04:52 .

[MassEffect762]

I FRIGGIN hate the fact that loot is so poorly managed in this game.







For example. After completing the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest there are TWO LOCKED chests beside the stairway leading to the ashes and the loot in those chests in RANDOM junk!!!







There should be some decent armor/staff/etc in areas of such importance. Redcliffe Vault is another example of lame loot with a very small chance of attaining Knight commander gear or commander gear. This stuff should be fixed/permanently placed in areas of significance.







Hopefully bioware takes this to heart and fixes it.

[SinYang]

Im wondering why NWN is quoted on this subject as having mass loot, while thats true in late stages of OC & HOTU...what about its second expansion? Shadows of Undertide - Chapter 1? (only chapter1) loot scale is on par with Dragon age.

Personally I hated that, ive also played on NWN low magic worlds which I also thought were a waste of time/life... at end of the day this is a GAME^^ games should be fun aswell as challenging..

IMO, Baldurs gate "1" had the correct system... gold was everywhere, yes BUT no matter what top items you had, you still couldnt enter melee range with Sarevok, he was twice your Level even beyond the games hardcap of 8th lvl (Drizzt aswell) both couldnt be battled in melee.

In Sarevok case, I overwhelmed him with summons then filled him full of acid arrows.

I think keeping loot low to increase AI challenge presents a *fake* challenge, instead make encounters much stronger with better AI, even if that means AI bosses are lvl 150 & your party is lowly 20, Mass encounters as we already have work well too.

Its a different style but same result and players happy cos he/she got all the nice items or atleast the illlusion of
this. Then Baldurs gate 2 came along, made those same nice items seem like common junk.

Modifié par SinYang, 08 décembre 2009 - 05:28 .

[asaiasai]

This is so irritating why do these games always have to be about loot? Loot is stuff you pick up to sell so that you can afford to go on another adventure.



This is not Hannah Montana's shopping adventure, or dress up Barbie, this is an RPG and since you are only playing against yourself loot is really irrelevant. There are a few key items you pick up as you clear areas, all the rest is vendor trash. If the loot bothers you pick up the tool chest and make yourself a totally epic set of gear so that you can then remove any challange the game had to offer.



Asai

[SinYang]

This is so irritating why do these games always have to be about loot? Loot is stuff you pick up to sell so that you can afford to go on another adventure.

Because atm, gaming is including far too much tedium of real life, far too much, what do want next?  in-game toliets??? we seem too have already included the credit crunch^

Last I checked this a "Fastasy game" in that mold, there has always been stacks of gold after a successful adventure - otherwise why adventure at all? see sights? im *not* saying loot is everything but it does *enhance* the adventuring.

Anyhow, The DLC content seems to do more damage to the original game loot wise, I pretty sure if DLC didnt include such crazy overpowered items, people wouldnt buy them half as much, its all a scam^^

Modifié par SinYang, 08 décembre 2009 - 06:02 .

[FedericoV]

Gabochido wrote...

Just out of curiosity, what kind of a loot system do you think would make the game more enjoyable and satisfying? I'm sure the feedback could come in useful for future development.

I hope that even if my reply is a little bit late, you'll take note. In general, I love how the loot system works (in the sense that it's a nice progression, you crave for money for 3/4 of the game but at the end you are awarded and you can buy all the nice items in the game from merchants). The pach 1.02 seems to address the fact that you found to many items and not enough money, wich is bad ony for inventory managements. So in general I like the system.

I think that the only problems are:

- Boss drops not good enough.
- DLC items too easy to get and too powerful (I mean, those that you can have without questing ant that you have not "deserved", like Blood Dragon Armour and Starfang or The Edge). .

Modifié par FedericoV, 08 décembre 2009 - 12:49 .

[TheRealIncarnal]

I like this loot system.



I mean, why should the thieves on the back streats of Denerim be wielding rare and powerful equipment? Obviously, they shouldn't.



I think that powerful loot is well distributed in this game, and the minor loot is common enough that it can be a significant source of income for your party.



Also, does the loot get better on harder difficulties? I swear I get better drops on Hard than I do on Normal, but maybe I'm just getting lucky.

[ChickenDownUnder]

Loot doesn't seem to get better.



The first time I killed the Broodmother I thought that for sure I'd get something special, but instead found leather armor. Was very much a let down, and I'd rather not think about what she was doing with a leather suit.

[Andaril78]

You only getting an leather armor when you killed the Broodmother?!

In every playthrough I gets the Effort armor. And I´ve reading that the Broodmother always drops the Effort armor....

I think this loot system is OK, but i dislike the fact some high loot is randomly.

Especially the fadewall shield and the parts of the Chevalier armor.

I dont want to reload hundreds of times when we KNOW only these creatures/peoples drops these loot.

Otherwise this loot system is OK. It´s a bit of fun to see my cash slowly builds up until I can buy the lovely Rose´s Thorn.

Not like other RPG´s who fast gives you enough cash in only hours and in the end you practically can buy up every vendor and even if possibly the entire country

But of course it´s more funny to get an dragonbone armor than an messy small health poultice.

But not too often.

[Chragen]

I personally would prefer a system more akin to Baldurs Gate 2 where the big boss fights and exploration of the lost and dangerous places of the world nets you most of the great items in the game. While harder to balance, you got to agree that it's a sweet feeling when you kill Firekraag in BG2 and you get both a awesome set of full plate mail and the best two handed sword a paladin can wield

I'm not against having great items from vendors to balance it out, but seeing how EVERY good item is from vendors pretty much, except for the DLC items make it feel a lot less rewarding. Though I get fixing the game economy so you don't end up in a situation like in Baldurs Gate where you're basically dragging around several tons of gold.  

Another thing I hope you maybe avoid in the future is all the promo items. There's a total of 17 items that are either preorder incentives or from the collectors edition. Would have been much more fun for the player to find these items inside the game instead of just getting the moment you start the game.

One thing I really do miss in Dragon Age is the sense of story in the items. Might be because Baldurs Gate had a static stats system and you had to right click to see what the items did.
Combined with the parchment style art of the weapon + the text. It just felt more "right" for the world compared to the more WoW/MMO style of showing off the stats of the items, but maybe that's just me ^^

Modifié par Chragen, 08 décembre 2009 - 05:54 .

[ChickenDownUnder]

Andaril78 wrote...

You only getting an leather armor when you killed the Broodmother?!
In every playthrough I gets the Effort armor. And I´ve reading that the Broodmother always drops the Effort armor....
I think this loot system is OK, but i dislike the fact some high loot is randomly.
Especially the fadewall shield and the parts of the Chevalier armor.
I dont want to reload hundreds of times when we KNOW only these creatures/peoples drops these loot.
Otherwise this loot system is OK. It´s a bit of fun to see my cash slowly builds up until I can buy the lovely Rose´s Thorn.
Not like other RPG´s who fast gives you enough cash in only hours and in the end you practically can buy up every vendor and even if possibly the entire country
But of course it´s more funny to get an dragonbone armor than an messy small health poultice.
But not too often.

I remember it also dropping a few other items. But yes, one of the things received was leather armor. I'm pretty sure at least some of the loot you get from her is random. It's been different in all my play throughs. That one time was just especially memoriable for me. It could just be a bug.

Modifié par ChickenDownUnder, 08 décembre 2009 - 06:02 .

[JabberJaww]

The loot does not need to be uber powerful.



It needs variety. The exact same studded leather over and over again.. studded leather is fine, but make different armor designs.. give us incentive to unlock chests and find the gloves for a ceratin set.... they do not need to be powerful and game breaking. just make us be able to have interesting looks and different sets in the game.

[Louis deGuerre]

I think it's okay but the occiasional good loot would be nice. Now I just feel like I'm cleaning up instead of looting

One thing that really annoyed me on my first playtrough as a mage was that health potions almost NEVER dropped. Which was a pain as I did the elves last (doh !). So you can imagine what fun I had in the deep roads with my low level chars and 3 health potions to go around
On my second playtrough as a rogue they're dropping like flies.

So I'm guessing the loot tables are PC character related, but this is not a good idea. More health for the mages ! 

Modifié par Louis deGuerre, 09 décembre 2009 - 01:41 .

[althor123]

I was disappointed with the loot but then I thought, heck this is the first game in this series. By Dragon Age 3, we will be level 70's and the magical gear will improve as well. But, if you are asking for feedback, my personal opinion is you need MORE MAIN BOSSES and they each drop unique items. It gets redundant killing the same stuff over and over in waves and waves and getting the same loot from them over and over.

[v.lokai]

The items from completing the DLC are rewarding. Whether they are too rewarding people can debate. Wardens Keep you get full massive set, shield, staff, sword, possibly robes if you take a certain path. Honnleath you get dagger, melee ring, melee helm, and possibly staff if you once again choose a certain way. With so many melee characters I wouldn't ever choose the staff over helm.



High dragon you get vendor trash. Flemeth you get morrigan robe thats it. Broodmother vendor trash. Chests should have the highest tier gems or sovereigns athough I admit arrows which sell well are always decent as they take little inventory. Also when Zathrian dies breaking the curse there was a missed opportunity for mage loot here. He simply vanishes with no lootable object.



Flemeth and High Dragon are optional fights so I guess depending on how the player chooses they dont miss out on a single thing. I kill Flemeth but I don't use robes of possession as I prefer mana regen on tevinter robes. I can't think of a single piece of gear the High Dragon has that is a must have on the order of Andruils Blessing belt, Lifegiver ring or Staff of the Magister Lords. The dragons scale is the only item the dragon has basically. Maybe due to the optional nature of these kills they chose to give them an entire vendor loot table.

[asaiasai]

I have been thinking about the loot systems in many RPGs that I have played, I have always wondered how much development time is spent to create these items and ensure the buffs are balanced. The time spent in development to make all these various items I feel could be better spent creating content, more quests, more dungeon, more conversation dialog options, more cut scene sequences. The things that tell the story, create an interactive environment for the player, the things that if done well immerse the player into the world.
 
To simplify item creation for the developers and further immerse the player in the world how about something like this? Using the DAO tier system 1 through 7 we assign a buff point scale based on the items tier rating. The player assigns the buffs according to what they want on a particular item, and the amount of buff points determined by tier, and the cost of each particular buff. The developers could make a few standard types of items (basic designs) that through an in game interface the player can modify at approiate shops like Wade’s or The Wonders of Thedas to suit them. The player could use any model and tier they choose and determine their own look for their character.
 
I  will try and explain the idea simply by example.
 
Points by tier could be as simple as a tier one item has 5 buff points and tier 7 could have 35, or 5 buff points per tier rating. All the stats on items as they are now would be assignable based upon a point cost system. So a +1 base stat like strength, dexterity, constitution, etc would cost you 5 buff points. Higher cost would be associated with higher buffs like .50 health regen would cost 10 points. A 1 point regen would cost 20 points.
 
How this would apply in practice would be;
A boss mob in a dungeon drops a tier 5 chest piece which means it has 25 buff points to spend. The player takes the unequipped item to Wade’s shop to assign the buffs. For a nominal fee say, 25 silver, the player get to choose their own buff package.  For this particular item I could have any of the following setups spending 25 buff points.
 
+2 cunning 10 points
+2 strength 10 points
+1 dexterity 5 points
There is the 25 buff points spent.
 
Or
.50 health regen 10 points
.50 stamina or mana regen 10 points
+1 to cunning
25 points spent.
 
This is just half of the equasion. The other half is strictly cosmetic changes. Once the player has decided on how to spend their buff points the next step is to tailor the look of the item. The player can choose a base model like the helm of Honnleigh, leave it stock color and appearance or make it red and remove the wings. The player could also turn it from a full helm into a crown similar to the Paragon crown you give to the Dwarven king of your choice. All of this is done in game while standing in Wade’s shop. When the player is satisfied with the finished item by equipping it they lock the stat portion of the item, they will always be able to for the nominal fee change its appearance at any time, by going back to Wade, but the buffs are locked from that point on.
 
While not perfect I think there is potential in the idea because it seems to be a win/win for everyone. The developers spend less time designing custom looks for gear, which means more content like dungeons etc, the player gets to customize their gear to suit the look they want.

Asai

[Blackfyre868]

Chragen wrote...

I personally would prefer a system more akin to Baldurs Gate 2 where the big boss fights and exploration of the lost and dangerous places of the world nets you most of the great items in the game. While harder to balance, you got to agree that it's a sweet feeling when you kill Firekraag in BG2 and you get both a awesome set of full plate mail and the best two handed sword a paladin can wield

I agree with that. Apart from this, I find the looting system in DA ok. I don't really expect great treasures from boxes or chests standing around in accessible areas or barracks and keep looting mainly for the XP when picking a lock. :-P

[fantasypisces]

Gabochido wrote...

If the game constantly gives you powerful or valuable loot, then it becomes too easy or you end up with a ton of useless cash (since you would have bought everything you needed). If we limit the number of lootable corpses and chests then you might feel there's just not enough loot!

We made DA to give you a large number of loots so you can gather a nice collection of things to use or sell, but the power and value has to be kept down so the game remains a challenge and buying items involves important choices. The special items must be rare enough to feel special otherwise they just get lost in the crow and having chests that contain generic stuff make the ones that contain special stuff all the more special.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of a loot system do you think would make the game more enjoyable and satisfying? I'm sure the feedback could come in useful for future development.

The only thing I would change is to maybe lower the cost a little bit on the awesome vendor pieces. Because of how much I had to use health poultices (even with CC and healing) on normal and higher difficulty I was only able to afford one or two of those items. That's all well and good for putting on your main character, but what about all the companions! It's sort of like  Alistair: "Oh maker, look at that awesome item for sale!" PC: "Sorry mate, the group is saving up for my mage robes." Alistair: "heeey, that's not fair!"

[Imryll]

I felt like I had about the right amount of intriguing loot, but the balance was way off. Too much massive armor vs. other types and DLC items formed too large a portion of the total. If I hadn't pre-ordered, played the flash game, etc., I would feel that things were pretty meagre.