429 réponses à ce sujet

[yoomazir]

spm1138 wrote...

yoomazir wrote...

spm1138 wrote...

I've been trying to replay ME the first and for the most part ME2 is a far superior game.
Of the stuff that has gone I find myself missing very little and quite glad to see the back of several things from ME1.

 so... actually you've never played ME right? feel free to tell us why.

L2Read. I said replay.

If you want two examples-
The combat in ME is incredibly so so. The AI is dodgy. The weapons are much less satisfying. Starting a new game from scratch is irritating because despite looking like a shooter you're suffering from being a low level RPG character. There's a lot of very samey prefabs and a lot of levels which just swarm you with very uninteresting enemies. The mission where you get your specialisation for example is terrrrrrible looked at purely as a shooter level (dodgy pathing, dull combat, boring enemies, repetition of the same identical prefab not once but three times) and as I say, it's where you get your specialisation so it's obviously meant to be some sort of moment in the game.
ME2 is a much more enjoyable shooter with much better realised gameplay, levels and mechanics.

ME1's inventory system is terrible. By the end of the game when you've got a full set of SPECTRE master gear and top tier armour it's tolerable but early on you find yourself picking up and slagging a metric f-tonne of near identical weapons and totally rubbish armour/upgrades. It's not even like having all the different items really gives you much sense of variety as despite different stats they really perform very similarly.
The decision to give you different types of gear and have it upgrade with your characters was a very wise one.

There are more.

"(dodgy pathing, dull combat, boring enemies, repetition of the same identical prefab not once but three times"

oh yeah, for a few secondary side quests, true, that was a complain in the previous ME, now you have like 6 secondary missions in ME with some variety in them but in exchange you have now amazing corridors main missions, how lovely, must be an improvement !

So it seems you didn't like the loot sytem in ME right? seeing how every other Bioware game had it, it's funny that you didn't like it.
Now, please, could you clarify me how rubbish were the weapons and armors upgrades? because for me they made a REAL difference  since they was enough variety for any class I was playing, what difficulty I was playing and what kind of enemies I was fighting....

But hey, since you didn't like any of it and since you love soooo much the action part of it ,could I suggest you to play the Army of Two games and the Gears of War? please? because the tps part of ME was never the strong part of the game, not in ME ,not in ME2.

Modifié par yoomazir, 18 février 2010 - 04:36 .

[Darth Drago]

spm1138 wrote...

If you want two examples-
The combat in ME is incredibly so so. The AI is dodgy. The weapons are much less satisfying. Starting a new game from scratch is irritating because despite looking like a shooter you're suffering from being a low level RPG character. There's a lot of very samey prefabs and a lot of levels which just swarm you with very uninteresting enemies. The mission where you get your specialisation for example is terrrrrrible looked at purely as a shooter level (dodgy pathing, dull combat, boring enemies, repetition of the same identical prefab not once but three times) and as I say, it's where you get your specialisation so it's obviously meant to be some sort of moment in the game.
ME2 is a much more enjoyable shooter with much better realised gameplay, levels and mechanics.

ME1's inventory system is terrible. By the end of the game when you've got a full set of SPECTRE master gear and top tier armour it's tolerable but early on you find yourself picking up and slagging a metric f-tonne of near identical weapons and totally rubbish armour/upgrades. It's not even like having all the different items really gives you much sense of variety as despite different stats they really perform very similarly.
The decision to give you different types of gear and have it upgrade with your characters was a very wise one.
.

-It sounds like your problem is that you went into ME1 expecting it to be a shooter when it’s a RPG. Now that ME2 is all shooter of course you prefer it over ME1. Mass Effect is not a shooter it is a RPG,or at least it was. Just because you have guns instead of swords must obviously make it a shooter right?

-As for the combat AI, ME2 still sucks. They all do only what they are programmed to do based on what role they are. For example someone shooting at you from behind cover will always do that. He may duck between shots or in rare cases move to another piece of cover if it’s a few feet away but that’s it. If they had the same combat AI your squad mates had it would actually an interesting fight.

-At least with your specialization there is an actual quest unlike the pick up a weapon and choose to get advanced training in the sniper gun or assault rifle.

-The inventory system for armor and weapons as well as their upgrades added something called variety. Do I choose a weapon that dose more damage over one that has a better accuracy rating. What about this armor, it had more protection but I get killed on the shield rating.

I guess you prefer the dumbed down everyone gets the same choice of 2 or so weapons shooter that ME2 is.

As for my dislikes (still more) for ME2:

-ME2 has no replay value at all. It is essentially a run and gun game. Gone are any dialog choices to change the outcome of a quest now you only get to shoot your way through practically every mission. There are not enough side quest to keep you even interested in exploring. There are 13 N7 quests in ME2 while there were 34 UNC quests in ME1. All the other side quest take place on one of the main planet locations. I would rather be bored from having so many quests (like in Oblivion) than be bored trying to find just one quest. Even if you change companions on missions, in most cases the will say the same scripted dialog. Instead of Garrus saying something it will be Miranda who says it. Whats the point in in playing again?

People have told me that the levels are bigger in ME2, which is a total crock of crap. Therum had you drive a few miles across the planet surface before even getting to the entrance to where Liara was. Same goes with Noveria a nice long winding snow covered route. Feros was broken into two main areas the colony and the ExoGeni building and again they were not within walking distance of each other. Virmire, the Citadel and Ilos again were huge levels. Now you get shuttled down 20 feet from were you mission starts.

Hell even the achievements you earn in ME2 are weak. You’ll get most of them on your first run through of the game. Explorer for example, visit 100% of the planets in a star system cluster but yet there isn’t one for exploring all the planets in the entire galaxy?

ME2 even tells you what containers can be destroyed on a mission. I wonder where I shouldn’t hide behind?

I guess everyone is just so mesmerized by the graphics to notice the missing elements that made ME1 entertaining and a great RPG. Even as a shooter ME2 isn’t that good.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 18 février 2010 - 05:44 .

[PorkPistol]

Mass Effect 1 was far more immersive and had a better story.

Mass Effect 2 hardly has a main plot at all, but is actually much better in character development. The class tweaks of Mass Effect 2 were nice but I hate that they simplified them so damn much.

Now, the many ways in which Mass Effect 2 totally sucks - the feel of combat (I don't feel like the universe's biggest badass when I am always stuck behind cover), the removal of Mass Effect 1's numerous armor models for all teammates (how can my teammates be out in space with a single layer of clothing and a nurse's mask? seriously?), the removal of the multitude of weapon models in Mass Effect 1, the removal of elevators.

Modifié par PorkPistol, 18 février 2010 - 05:50 .

[lumen11]

Andorfiend wrote...
In ME 2 this has been moved into the Powers section, so only the soldier could make those choices. Anyone else would have to choose differetn squadmate to access things like incidiary ammo or concussive shot. My choices have been reduced.

Thereby making the classes significantly more distinctive. And isn't choosing a unique class the ultimate form of customisation?

But I get what you are saying. I just see the whole issue as a trade-off that gives us much in return.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

I agree, like how ME1's cut and paste pirate bases and UNC side quests are far superior to ME2.

Indeed, whereas ME2s not cut and paste shooter missions with the complexity and depth of soggy toilet paper are a vast improvement.

Its kill this, and if youre lucky, interact with this.

They threw one or two non-combat missions in to try and compensate, but it was a pathetic attempt to mask the fact that ME2s N7 missions are by and large just more combat stages that already litter the game.

80% of ME2 is a blandly designed shooting gallery where you move from one set of boxes/rocky cover to another, whacking any mole- excuse me, shooting any enemy dumb enough to pop out of cover. And they always do.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 18 février 2010 - 06:04 .

[nupfi]

Story of ME1 + Chars of ME2 = win

[Lopake]

ME2'S story is awkward because its in the middle of the trilogy. It like reading only the middle of a book.



Unless of course people wanted ME3 to just contain one climactic battle, then its over. Rarely is the second part of a trilogy more than a filler.

[Darth Drago]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

80% of ME2 is a blandly designed shooting gallery where you move from one set of boxes/rocky cover to another, whacking any mole- excuse me, shooting any enemy dumb enough to pop out of cover. And they always do.

80%? That’s a bit low isn’t it? Or are you adding in the non combat part of the main areas like Omega and the other planets?

Modifié par Darth Drago, 18 février 2010 - 06:20 .

[PorkPistol]

Lopake wrote...

ME2'S story is awkward because its in the middle of the trilogy. It like reading only the middle of a book.

Unless of course people wanted ME3 to just contain one climactic battle, then its over. Rarely is the second part of a trilogy more than a filler.

No, it was awkward because the story was almost entirely comprised of the personal quests of your squadmates with little to no feeling of a greater looming threat in the background.  There was no sense of urgency behind anything in ME2. 

Basic ME2 Plot Synopsis - Go to X planet/space-station to talk to random "badasses" and try to get them to join you.  Oh wait, they are sad because of some personal problem?  I better help them so they will like me more.  Repeat 11 more times.  Oh, and by the way, there are these guys out in the galaxy that you should probably kill because they are doing some suspicious things. Mission Complete.      

[darkshadow136]

I like ME2 better in almost every way. Things I did not like about ME2 over condensing of weapons and armor leaving not as much variety, and no alternate armors for squad mates just an alternate color. I also don't like the fuel consumption thing, they should have stuck with the mass relay for all locations. They also should have added more missions like in the first ME game. I have other complaints in comparison but not without adding spoilers.



This being said as much as I loved ME1, ME2 is superior in almost every way in my opinion. I like how they fleshed the new one out for the most part.

[Nozybidaj]

Lopake wrote...

ME2'S story is awkward because its in the middle of the trilogy. It like reading only the middle of a book.

Unless of course people wanted ME3 to just contain one climactic battle, then its over. Rarely is the second part of a trilogy more than a filler.

The "second chapters of a trilogy are hhhaaaarrrddd" excuse again? <_<  Second chapters of (good) trilogies are never filler.  They are usually used for character development and progression, but of course since half the characters are missing in the sequel we now have two chapters of introductions instead of one chapter of introduction and one chapter of growth.  I think that is a major factor contributing to people thinking the sequel is lacking something.

BW is great at doing the character introductions (ME1, DA:O, ME2, Awakenings just to name a few) but they seem unable or unwilling to do growth and progression.  It would have been nice, and was clearly what a lot of people were expecting, to see them step out of that comfort zone in ME2.

Now we head into the third and concluding chapter without ever seeing any of these characters grow beyond their initial intro (with the exception of Tali, Garrus, and Wrex obviously which were actually really well done).

[Saetanigera]

Atmosphere: ME2

Many missions in ME1 were obviously the same building with the boxes in different parts. The rover missions were also often bland with a few surprises thrown in. The overall detail in ME2 was surprising and every once in awhile you'd stop and notice all the detail in what was a seamless experience. The random character conversations were interesting and you had a reason to bring a different set of party members to town each time to see what they had to say.

Gameplay: ME2

In many ways ME1 was just a really easy FPS with a couple wacky abilities you might use. The defense types and offense counters are great. The cover system works better this time around. Regenerating keeps the action moving. Power combos made certain teammates better combos depending on your character. Variety in enemy types was a definite plus. If someone only plays the soldier class they are missing out on a lot of what makes ME2 a great game. Its interesting to walk around after a firefight in ME2 and go "I missed the great high ground spot over here. That would have made this fight a lot easier". (Getting shot through cover, randomly standing up, and glitches where two different heights of cover met was the biggest gripe I had. Also, healing 'faster' while in cover should be heals faster while not moving. There were times my teammate hogged the cover while I was safely behind the corner and it took forever to heal.)

Leveling: ME1

Leveling and not getting anything is annoying. In ME2, levels two and three were largely cosmetic on the way to level 4 as well. In ME1 you leveled too often with little change between levels. A hybrid would be a step forward.

Allies: ME2

Having a reason to use all your allies in different areas of the game is huge. It makes a huge difference when you don't view half the characters as empty baggage. It was nice how the feedback for how you approached the missions was reflected in your allies this time around with the biggest payoff when you get everyone through alive. It was sad how the two flattest characters in ME1 were the human love interests (at least you got to blow one up each time). Wrex is at least as interesting as an NPC as he was in the party. Garrus grew as a personality in ME2. In ME2 you find out much more about Tali than she's on pilgrimage and people treat quarians like crap. Liara is the only step backward and she highlights 2 years of you dead vs a couple months spent together. The second game does a lot to flesh out your party members with recruiting missions, loyalty missions, moral stances, and ship dialog.

Upgrading: ME2

Running out of room when you can carry over 100 things was constantly annoying. Choosing what to upgrade based on your resources is a nice touch. I wish you expanded the research upgrades for the inventory aspect.

Space exploration/resources: ME1

Viewing the planet descriptions and sometimes getting rewarded with minerals was neat the first game. The fuel limit never really impacted game play in ME2 except for one fact: it subtly impedes exploring the universe which is the last thing you want in a game like this. The resources in ME1 weren't exciting, but the resources in ME2 was the biggest waste of time with zero fun. (The one good thing they did was give you free minerals if you play again). In ME3, I would really like to have colony/mining facility/transport defense missions that reward you with resources. (The defense of a colony from attacking rachni in ME1 didn't really have an equal in ME2. the game has all sorts of enemy types, methods, defenses or lack thereof to make these missions varied)

Bosses: ME2

the boss fights in ME2 actually have a decent chance of killing you instead of a chance to mow down a unique enemy. The Thorian was the best boss in ME1 and you never really fight it directly.

Paragon/Renagade: ME1

I should not get paragon points for getting myself a shop discount. If I try to smooth talk someone into doing something wrong that is renegade (note: enemies try to talk you out of arresting them and saying 'you are going to jail, period' is paragon, as it should be). Scaring someone into doing the right thing is conversely a paragon act. In ME2, you really get the feeling your character says the same thing 3 different ways but gets different moral results from saying 99% the same thing.

Story/pacing: mixed

ME1 you felt you were always just behind Saren while in ME2 you had time to get your team together until the very end where suddenly you had a reason to rush. (conversely it felt stupid you were randomly running around the galaxy when you really had something to do in ME1) ME3 could have something big/small happen differently if you powered through the story line. that would be a reason to new game+ the same character (ME2 you want to new game plus your ME1 character again and that doesn't seem right) Looking back, ME1 was too fixated on humanity but made a large impression on how large everything was (there just wasn't enough stuff to actually fill that space).

The exploration is great in theory, but the main plot is the safety of the world. I could seriously see a spinoff of this series focused more on the exploration of the world and building humanity's place in the stars, but this game is better sticking toward the plot with side missions rather than the side missions becoming the focus of the game.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

MrHimuraChan wrote...

i thought i was going to like ME1 better, but now that i finished ME2 a couple times, i realized i can't play ME1 anymore with the same excitement, it feels so... bland and shallow =/

I have to say the opposite for me, now I've almost played ME2 a couple of times, I can't play it anymore, but will be playing ME1 many more times.

Thats the problem, for me, with ME2; no replayability, or a severe lack of it. It becomes so tedious with picking up all those people, and pampering to their every whim. In ME1 everyone was on board from the start, they wanted to Kick Saren's ass, and you didn't have say 'pretty-please' to get them to do it.

[darkshadow136]

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

MrHimuraChan wrote...

i thought i was going to like ME1 better, but now that i finished ME2 a couple times, i realized i can't play ME1 anymore with the same excitement, it feels so... bland and shallow =/

I have to say the opposite for me, now I've almost played ME2 a couple of times, I can't play it anymore, but will be playing ME1 many more times.

Thats the problem, for me, with ME2; no replayability, or a severe lack of it. It becomes so tedious with picking up all those people, and pampering to their every whim. In ME1 everyone was on board from the start, they wanted to Kick Saren's ass, and you didn't have say 'pretty-please' to get them to do it.

Although I can see where Bioware was going with all the personal missions for the squad. I have to say if they were going to do that I wish they also included a large bunch of side missions like in the 1st ME. I miss hearing admirial Hacket on the COM asking for my help with stuff, and for those thqat don't know the voice actor for Hacket is the lead actor from the show Millinium.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

darkshadow136 wrote...

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

MrHimuraChan wrote...

i thought i was going to like ME1 better, but now that i finished ME2 a couple times, i realized i can't play ME1 anymore with the same excitement, it feels so... bland and shallow =/

I have to say the opposite for me, now I've almost played ME2 a couple of times, I can't play it anymore, but will be playing ME1 many more times.

Thats the problem, for me, with ME2; no replayability, or a severe lack of it. It becomes so tedious with picking up all those people, and pampering to their every whim. In ME1 everyone was on board from the start, they wanted to Kick Saren's ass, and you didn't have say 'pretty-please' to get them to do it.

Although I can see where Bioware was going with all the personal missions for the squad. I have to say if they were going to do that I wish they also included a large bunch of side missions like in the 1st ME. I miss hearing admirial Hacket on the COM asking for my help with stuff, and for those thqat don't know the voice actor for Hacket is the lead actor from the show Millinium.

Same here I really miss that bit, it really added to the immersion factor.

[Nozybidaj]

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

MrHimuraChan wrote...

i thought i was going to like ME1 better, but now that i finished ME2 a couple times, i realized i can't play ME1 anymore with the same excitement, it feels so... bland and shallow =/

I have to say the opposite for me, now I've almost played ME2 a couple of times, I can't play it anymore, but will be playing ME1 many more times.

Thats the problem, for me, with ME2; no replayability, or a severe lack of it. It becomes so tedious with picking up all those people, and pampering to their every whim. In ME1 everyone was on board from the start, they wanted to Kick Saren's ass, and you didn't have say 'pretty-please' to get them to do it.

One of the things I like most about ME1 that was made clear after playing ME2, and is something I think people often overlook, is that in ME1 Shepard doesn't feel like a spineless jelly fish.

ME2 all he does is straight up go along with everything.  He never questions why he is doing the things he does or make any decisions on his own.

In ME1 The Council doesn't believe you about Saren, Shep goes out and proves them wrong.  They tell him the Reapers don't exist to forget about them, Shep goes out and finds out how to stop them regardless.  Udina grounds your ship and tries to shove you off to the side, you steal the damn ship and go save the galaxy anyway.

In ME2 you basically just take anything TIM says at face value and run off to do his bidding.  There are a couple of times you can make a snide comment about it, but other than act like a whiney little kid you don't really get to do anything about it.  You never confront Cerberus about the things they have done, you can't tell him to stuff it and go get your real crew back, you can't sell TIM out to the Alliance or the Council, the one and only time Shep shows any signs of having a back bone is at the very end of the game.

Shep never feels like that strong willed heroic leader he was in the first game.  He's just a husk through which the player interacts with story elements and shoots stuff.

[Scottthesnow]

I think, if I had a choice of ME3 using ME1s system or ME2s system. I would go with ME1. The combat is better in ME2 and I like the inventory system. ME1 had far, way far more tactical customization and tinkering.



Most of what ME2 has is simply polish. They made to many missteps: Gas masks in hard vac, a retconned asinine ammo system, scanning game, stripper model from ME1 is now character model, boss fight straight from Contra 3, less character interaction, less weapon variety and more. These may seem minor, but they were things the first one nailed.

[darkshadow136]

MrHimuraChan wrote...

lol, you guys are almost convincing me to give ME1 another chance

lol ME1 was a great game. Bioware when they were cutting the fat so to speak for ME2 I think they just cut a bit to much off. There was some great parts to ME1 they should have kept for ME2.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

MrHimuraChan wrote...

darkshadow136 wrote...

MrHimuraChan wrote...

lol, you guys are almost convincing me to give ME1 another chance

lol ME1 was a great game. Bioware when they were cutting the fat so to speak for ME2 I think they just cut a bit to much off. There was some great parts to ME1 they should have kept for ME2.

I actually loved the Mako sequence on Virmire.

Was it Virmire? I remember driving on a river...

It would be Virmire. probably, or it could have been Ilos

[dfjdejulio]

 For me, ME1 was clearly better overall.

There are aspects to ME2 that were definitely improved, a lot. One that's a no-brainer is the hacking system. ME1's was utterly lame, and ME2's is actually fun in a mechanics/gameplay sense and aids immersion -- the ultimate win/win for an action RPG.

There are other cases where ME1 or ME2 is better but it's not as clear-cut. In ME1 I liked that I could tweak the gear of my whole party to make trade-offs. In ME2 I like that I don't have to manage a huge collection of drops and deal with all the omni-gel and stuff, and I like the way Sheperd's armor customization works (for the most part).  So each has plusses and minuses, but for me, ME1 is better.

Another example is the skill tree.  In ME1 I liked the huge number of things you could spend skill points on, and I liked that if you had one single unspent skill point, you could always do something with it that would make a difference.  In ME2 I love how at the top rank, each skill evolves into two distinct forms (ie. you have to make a real choice with trade-offs, like "AoE vs. increased potency").  So both have plusses and minuses, but for me ME1 comes out on top.

And elevators... yes, I hated how long the elevator rides were.  But I really don't understand why anyone likes ME2 better in this regard.  The long elevator rides have been replaced with equally-long loading screens.  They both suck, they both are boring, but the loading screens have the added problem of breaking immersion and making the world feel smaller.  It would have been great if they could get rid of elevator rides by doing some kind of continuous background geography streaming thing like "Soul Reaver" did.  But replacing them with loading screens?  I'd rather have kept the elevators.

In terms of interacting with squadmates, it's kinda nice that Kelly helps you figure out when someone has some dialog that will advance a plot point... but they took it too far.  In ME1 maybe you had to hunt and test and probe too much to uncover the sidequest for Tali or Wrex or Garrus, but in ME2 it's spoon-fed to you.  There's more of it, but it's spoon-fed.  So again, both have plusses and minuses, but ME1 comes out on top for me.

This is the way ME2 is across the board for me.  There are a few places with clear improvement, one with spectacular no-brainer improvement (the hacking system), one with spectacular abysmal failure (disc swapping), but mostly it's five steps forward and six steps back.

Which still results in a damn fine game.  ME2 is awesome, and I will be finishing a full 30th level playthrough with every class.  It's just not as good (for me) as ME1.

[Nick Fox]

PorkPistol wrote...

Lopake wrote...

ME2'S story is awkward because its in the middle of the trilogy. It like reading only the middle of a book.

Unless of course people wanted ME3 to just contain one climactic battle, then its over. Rarely is the second part of a trilogy more than a filler.

No, it was awkward because the story was almost entirely comprised of the personal quests of your squadmates with little to no feeling of a greater looming threat in the background.  There was no sense of urgency behind anything in ME2. 

Basic ME2 Plot Synopsis - Go to X planet/space-station to talk to random "badasses" and try to get them to join you.  Oh wait, they are sad because of some personal problem?  I better help them so they will like me more.  Repeat 11 more times.  Oh, and by the way, there are these guys out in the galaxy that you should probably kill because they are doing some suspicious things. Mission Complete.      

You made me smile with this post. Suspicious things and suspicious guys.....hahaha. Brilliant!
Add a bunch of whiners (squadmates) to the list and bam we have the the "greatest RPG" of the year.
BW is now in the shooter business and there to stay. God I hope not though.

Modifié par Nick Fox, 18 février 2010 - 07:44 .

[darkshadow136]

MrHimuraChan wrote...

darkshadow136 wrote...

MrHimuraChan wrote...

lol, you guys are almost convincing me to give ME1 another chance

lol ME1 was a great game. Bioware when they were cutting the fat so to speak for ME2 I think they just cut a bit to much off. There was some great parts to ME1 they should have kept for ME2.

I actually loved the Mako sequence on Virmire.

Was it Virmire? I remember driving on a river...

It was both Virmire and Ilos where there was major mako sequences. I miss the Mako thing for that but I don't miss the mako for exploring all the planets that got boring real quick. lol

Modifié par darkshadow136, 18 février 2010 - 07:43 .