278 réponses à ce sujet

[XX55XX]

But you see the problem with that, is you have the majority of Tali fans
voting, so yes it indeed play a significant role. You also might have
forgotten to take in to account that not everyone will put a 1 all the
time in hopes of remaining undetected as a fanboy.That is just common
sense, although most fanboys lack this. I call shananigans.

But you have little proof. Yes, there are double votes here and there, but again, it does not seem that the "Tali diehards" are taking over the poll. If that is the case, then why is Tali's mean only a 7.92 in this survey and an 8.05 in the first one, even with nearly the same standard deviations? The coefficients of variation went up slightly (and only slightly!) compared with the first survey.

You might be on to something, but the numbers do not support your thesis.

[ComTrav]

What the data do support is that more people like Tali better then any other character, but she's not the most well-liked character. (Mordin is.)

[halO bendeR]

It's a little disappointing if people are cheating the system in order to get Tali in the number one spot. She's my favourite character too, but I'm curious to know how she's really perceived by the community.

[DigitalMaster37]

XX55XX wrote...

But you see the problem with that, is you have the majority of Tali fans
voting, so yes it indeed play a significant role. You also might have
forgotten to take in to account that not everyone will put a 1 all the
time in hopes of remaining undetected as a fanboy.That is just common
sense, although most fanboys lack this. I call shananigans.

But you have little proof. Yes, there are double votes here and there, but again, it does not seem that the "Tali diehards" are taking over the poll. If that is the case, then why is Tali's mean only a 7.92 in this survey and an 8.05 in the first one, even with nearly the same standard deviations? The coefficients of variation went up slightly (and only slightly!) compared with the first survey.

You might be on to something, but the numbers do not support your thesis.

Tali's mean is a result of other fanboy LIs too. So in effect we have a survey polluted with a bunch of "buffs and debuffs" on particular characters. The fact that you have more Tali voters shows because the negative effect from the anti Tali voters is small but significant enough to hold her down, along with the people who generally dislike her, and those who just like her in an 7-8ish way. Now Liara suffers from the cameo effect and the Tali haters in particular, that will add to the weight of her negative votes. The funny thing is how yet close they both are in spite of the large numbers of Tali voters. Either way, the whole survey is skewed.

It is rather funny overall though, I'm just pointing out what not everybody can see if they are not really looking. No need for them to think what they see is acually accurate.

The Standard deviation for all of the ME1 LIs are highest. Kaiden is no# 1 and Liara is no# 2. That explains enough to me. Although it is not super drastic, it still explains a ton.

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 13 février 2010 - 12:06 .

[XX55XX]

ComTrav wrote...

What the data do support is that more people like Tali better then any other character, but she's not the most well-liked character. (Mordin is.)

I don't think we will ever be able to explain this inconsistency. Odd, yes?

[ComTrav]

XX55XX wrote...

ComTrav wrote...

What the data do support is that more people like Tali better then any other character, but she's not the most well-liked character. (Mordin is.)

I don't think we will ever be able to explain this inconsistency. Odd, yes?

Well, I think the best explanation is that everyone likes Mordin, but no one likes him the most. The most people like Tali the most, but lots of people don't like her as well as they like Mordin. (Or Wrex, or Garrus.)

[KainrycKarr]

I love how it can't possibly be that Tali really is just that popular, it surely must be an underhanded conspiracy by her fans.



My posts back me up in stating that I am NOT biased by my favorite, and I have ALWAYS endorsed everyone being able to enjoy their respective "favorites".



I am severely disappointed by the poor sportsmanship being shown. I didn't expect Tali to do as well as she did, but I certainly did not expect other fans to react with such blatantly poor sportsmanship, simply because they didn't see the results they wanted.

[XX55XX]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

But you see the problem with that, is you have the majority of Tali fans
voting, so yes it indeed play a significant role. You also might have
forgotten to take in to account that not everyone will put a 1 all the
time in hopes of remaining undetected as a fanboy.That is just common
sense, although most fanboys lack this. I call shananigans.

But you have little proof. Yes, there are double votes here and there, but again, it does not seem that the "Tali diehards" are taking over the poll. If that is the case, then why is Tali's mean only a 7.92 in this survey and an 8.05 in the first one, even with nearly the same standard deviations? The coefficients of variation went up slightly (and only slightly!) compared with the first survey.

You might be on to something, but the numbers do not support your thesis.

Tali's mean is a result of other fanboy LIs too. So in effect we have a survey polluted with a bunch of "buffs and debuffs" on particular characters. The fact that you have more Tali voters shows because the negative effect from the anti Tali voters is small but significant enough to hold her down, along with the people who generally dislike her, and those who just like her in an 7-8ish way. Now Liara suffers from the cameo effect and the Tali haters in particular, that will add to the weight of her negative votes. The funny thing is how yet close they both are in spite of the large numbers of Tali voters. Either way, the whole survey is skewed.

It is rather funny overall though, I'm just pointing out what not everybody can see if they are not really looking. No need for them to think what they see is acually accurate.

Well, if that is the case, no matter what the numbers are, we will never be able to properly gauge how the community feels about each character. The numbers are useless.

I do agree that while a few diehards may skew the poll, do you really think that there is some vast conspiracy to deliberately skew the poll in their favorite character's favor? I don't think so, and even if there is such a conspiracy, the conspirators are few in number.

Deltaboy, sometimes I think you take things a little too seriously. Sabotage or no sabotage, this poll was done out of my spare time for the sake of fun and a love for numbers...

[ComTrav]

You know, if you wanted to settle this, you could do a comparison.



See how many people who rated Tali their "Most Favorite" gave a 3 or less to some LI.



Select a random sample and see how they rated the same LI.

[XX55XX]

KainrycKarr wrote...

I love how it can't possibly be that Tali really is just that popular, it surely must be an underhanded conspiracy by her fans.

My posts back me up in stating that I am NOT biased by my favorite, and I have ALWAYS endorsed everyone being able to enjoy their respective "favorites".

I am severely disappointed by the poor sportsmanship being shown. I didn't expect Tali to do as well as she did, but I certainly did not expect other fans to react with such blatantly poor sportsmanship, simply because they didn't see the results they wanted.

Again, the numbers hardly support your theory...

Personally, I think it is the thought that anyone can take the poll more than once that makes people think it's rigged somehow.

[XX55XX]

ComTrav wrote...

You know, if you wanted to settle this, you could do a comparison.

See how many people who rated Tali their "Most Favorite" gave a 3 or less to some LI.

Select a random sample and see how they rated the same LI.

Interesting. I'll do that after work tomorrow. I am presuming you want me to run a test for statistical significance?

Modifié par XX55XX, 13 février 2010 - 12:08 .

[77boy84]

KainrycKarr wrote...

I love how it can't possibly be that Tali really is just that popular, it surely must be an underhanded conspiracy by her fans.

My posts back me up in stating that I am NOT biased by my favorite, and I have ALWAYS endorsed everyone being able to enjoy their respective "favorites".

I am severely disappointed by the poor sportsmanship being shown. I didn't expect Tali to do as well as she did, but I certainly did not expect other fans to react with such blatantly poor sportsmanship, simply because they didn't see the results they wanted.

Oh shut up.

Everyone is acting like this.
I've seen loads of Tali fans complaining about the other surveys, saying Tali's numbers weren't high enough, and that "tali fan haters" where giving her a 1 just to spite her, because no one could possibly dislike tali!

Don't act like this is just one group of people saying this, because everyone is being a **** about the polls, and yes, all "fangroups" have people intentionally screwing with the surveys.

[Darastryx]

KainrycKarr wrote...

I love how it can't possibly be that Tali really is just that popular, it surely must be an underhanded conspiracy by her fans.

My posts back me up in stating that I am NOT biased by my favorite, and I have ALWAYS endorsed everyone being able to enjoy their respective "favorites".

I am severely disappointed by the poor sportsmanship being shown. I didn't expect Tali to do as well as she did, but I certainly did not expect other fans to react with such blatantly poor sportsmanship, simply because they didn't see the results they wanted.

This is why Tali is my favorite character next to Wrex, yet I hate most of her fanbase. 

[KainrycKarr]

XX55XX wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

I love how it can't possibly be that Tali really is just that popular, it surely must be an underhanded conspiracy by her fans.

My posts back me up in stating that I am NOT biased by my favorite, and I have ALWAYS endorsed everyone being able to enjoy their respective "favorites".

I am severely disappointed by the poor sportsmanship being shown. I didn't expect Tali to do as well as she did, but I certainly did not expect other fans to react with such blatantly poor sportsmanship, simply because they didn't see the results they wanted.

Again, the numbers hardly support your theory...

Personally, I think it is the thought that anyone can take the poll more than once that makes people think it's rigged somehow.

...What theory? I don't have one, I just said i was disappointed that people are being poor sports and assuming it's some underhanded conspiracy because they didn't see the results they like.

i'm on your side. and you're semi-attacking me.

What is WITH these forums? Nothing but hostility...

[martythecrow]

Gotta make a second sheet in your spreadsheet that shows a live tally, percentages, and maybe a chart or two.

[XX55XX]

KainrycKarr wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

I love how it can't possibly be that Tali really is just that popular, it surely must be an underhanded conspiracy by her fans.

My posts back me up in stating that I am NOT biased by my favorite, and I have ALWAYS endorsed everyone being able to enjoy their respective "favorites".

I am severely disappointed by the poor sportsmanship being shown. I didn't expect Tali to do as well as she did, but I certainly did not expect other fans to react with such blatantly poor sportsmanship, simply because they didn't see the results they wanted.

Again, the numbers hardly support your theory...

Personally, I think it is the thought that anyone can take the poll more than once that makes people think it's rigged somehow.

...What theory? I don't have one, I just said i was disappointed that people are being poor sports and assuming it's some underhanded conspiracy because they didn't see the results they like.

i'm on your side. and you're semi-attacking me.

What is WITH these forums? Nothing but hostility...

Oh crap. I actually misread your post. I thought you were supporting the theory that there is a conspiracy behind the numbers. Sorry!

[ComTrav]

XX55XX wrote...

ComTrav wrote...

You know, if you wanted to settle this, you could do a comparison.

See how many people who rated Tali their "Most Favorite" gave a 3 or less to some LI.

Select a random sample and see how they rated the same LI.

Interesting. I'll do that after work. I am presuming you want me to run a test for statistical significance?

If you have time. I appreciate that you're mainly doing this as a kind of intellectual exercise.

But if there's been data tampering, you should be able to catch it with enough analysis.

[KainrycKarr]

77boy84 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

I love how it can't possibly be that Tali really is just that popular, it surely must be an underhanded conspiracy by her fans.

My posts back me up in stating that I am NOT biased by my favorite, and I have ALWAYS endorsed everyone being able to enjoy their respective "favorites".

I am severely disappointed by the poor sportsmanship being shown. I didn't expect Tali to do as well as she did, but I certainly did not expect other fans to react with such blatantly poor sportsmanship, simply because they didn't see the results they wanted.

Oh shut up.

Everyone is acting like this.
I've seen loads of Tali fans complaining about the other surveys, saying Tali's numbers weren't high enough, and that "tali fan haters" where giving her a 1 just to spite her, because no one could possibly dislike tali!

Don't act like this is just one group of people saying this, because everyone is being a **** about the polls, and yes, all "fangroups" have people intentionally screwing with the surveys.

I didn't "act like anything" I said I'm disappointed by the poor sportsmanship.

I didn't name ANYONE, or ANY particular group.

What in the sweet name of hell is so wrong with you all, that noone can tolerate EVERYONE'S favorite characters?

and for the record, this applies to EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER-FAN-GROUP.

Tali, Liara, Miranda, Ashley, all of you.

With everyone it must be *your* favorite, or noone's.

I stand by my opinion. I would rather see EVERYONE'S favorites return.

enjoy bashing on each other.

[Eclesis]

XX55XX wrote...

ComTrav wrote...

What the data do support is that more people like Tali better then any other character, but she's not the most well-liked character. (Mordin is.)

I don't think we will ever be able to explain this inconsistency. Odd, yes?

Fairly natural, I think. I mean, it's quite easy for people to like a character but not be obsessively crazy about them. Tali is polarizing for the same reason that all love interest characters are polarizing to an extent; a lot of fans seem to consider it some sort of competition. Witness the mud-slinging that occurred when people were trying to figure out who the ME2 love interests actually were, or the arguments over whether ME1 or ME2 romances were better, etc. Also, as this is a sample of people who read the boards, the behavior of the various fanbases is probably related - for example, there are certainly some people who seem put off by perceived bad behavior by Tali fans, as evidenced by this very thread.

Mordin is funny, interesting, and unlikely to be perceived to be "threatening" to anybody's favorite, so unless you were just indifferent to him it's hard to see many giving him a low score.

[77boy84]

KainrycKarr wrote...

77boy84 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

I love how it can't possibly be that Tali really is just that popular, it surely must be an underhanded conspiracy by her fans.

My posts back me up in stating that I am NOT biased by my favorite, and I have ALWAYS endorsed everyone being able to enjoy their respective "favorites".

I am severely disappointed by the poor sportsmanship being shown. I didn't expect Tali to do as well as she did, but I certainly did not expect other fans to react with such blatantly poor sportsmanship, simply because they didn't see the results they wanted.

Oh shut up.

Everyone is acting like this.
I've seen loads of Tali fans complaining about the other surveys, saying Tali's numbers weren't high enough, and that "tali fan haters" where giving her a 1 just to spite her, because no one could possibly dislike tali!

Don't act like this is just one group of people saying this, because everyone is being a **** about the polls, and yes, all "fangroups" have people intentionally screwing with the surveys.

I didn't "act like anything" I said I'm disappointed by the poor sportsmanship.

I didn't name ANYONE, or ANY particular group.

What in the sweet name of hell is so wrong with you all, that noone can tolerate EVERYONE'S favorite characters?

and for the record, this applies to EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER-FAN-GROUP.

Tali, Liara, Miranda, Ashley, all of you.

With everyone it must be *your* favorite, or noone's.

I stand by my opinion. I would rather see EVERYONE'S favorites return.

enjoy bashing on each other.

I love how it can't possibly be that Tali really is just that popular, it surely must be an underhanded conspiracy by her fans.

but I certainly did not expect other fans to react with such blatantly poor sportsmanship

If you didn't outright say it, you implied it.

And I never even said anything about peoples' favorites... wtf?
All I said is that it's not just one group that is saying the surveys are being ****ed with, it's EVERYONE.

[BattleVisor]

when are you releasing the results?

[DigitalMaster37]

XX55XX wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

But you see the problem with that, is you have the majority of Tali fans
voting, so yes it indeed play a significant role. You also might have
forgotten to take in to account that not everyone will put a 1 all the
time in hopes of remaining undetected as a fanboy.That is just common
sense, although most fanboys lack this. I call shananigans.

But you have little proof. Yes, there are double votes here and there, but again, it does not seem that the "Tali diehards" are taking over the poll. If that is the case, then why is Tali's mean only a 7.92 in this survey and an 8.05 in the first one, even with nearly the same standard deviations? The coefficients of variation went up slightly (and only slightly!) compared with the first survey.

You might be on to something, but the numbers do not support your thesis.

Tali's mean is a result of other fanboy LIs too. So in effect we have a survey polluted with a bunch of "buffs and debuffs" on particular characters. The fact that you have more Tali voters shows because the negative effect from the anti Tali voters is small but significant enough to hold her down, along with the people who generally dislike her, and those who just like her in an 7-8ish way. Now Liara suffers from the cameo effect and the Tali haters in particular, that will add to the weight of her negative votes. The funny thing is how yet close they both are in spite of the large numbers of Tali voters. Either way, the whole survey is skewed.

It is rather funny overall though, I'm just pointing out what not everybody can see if they are not really looking. No need for them to think what they see is acually accurate.

Well, if that is the case, no matter what the numbers are, we will never be able to properly gauge how the community feels about each character. The numbers are useless.

I do agree that while a few diehards may skew the poll, do you really think that there is some vast conspiracy to deliberately skew the poll in their favorite character's favor? I don't think so, and even if there is such a conspiracy, the conspirators are few in number.

Deltaboy, sometimes I think you take things a little too seriously. Sabotage or no sabotage, this poll was done out of my spare time for the sake of fun and a love for numbers...

I actually don;t have a serious bone in my body right now. Maybe it's because you can't se my emotions. I actualyl find it funny that some people are taking this to actually mean something. 

Also what I'm getting out of this is different than what you may be getting. You may be doing it for fun and practice. I am doing it for both fun and confirmation of what the forums show. I find it funny, not serious. I like to talk if you haven't gotten that yet.

@KainrycKarr If I was promoting a specific character, I would have actually used both different wording and then proceeded to bad mouth another character. I have done neither. Instead I am laughing at the lengths "certain" fans will go to prove a nonexistent point. That is what I find amuzing and I am simply calling them out, why you ask?

Because that is "my" fun. I don't like to see cheaters win either. So that is why O am so vocal. If I was a sore loser, I would have to first being either playing a game, or be a part of a contest.

[KainrycKarr]

77boy84 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

77boy84 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

I love how it can't possibly be that Tali really is just that popular, it surely must be an underhanded conspiracy by her fans.

My posts back me up in stating that I am NOT biased by my favorite, and I have ALWAYS endorsed everyone being able to enjoy their respective "favorites".

I am severely disappointed by the poor sportsmanship being shown. I didn't expect Tali to do as well as she did, but I certainly did not expect other fans to react with such blatantly poor sportsmanship, simply because they didn't see the results they wanted.

Oh shut up.

Everyone is acting like this.
I've seen loads of Tali fans complaining about the other surveys, saying Tali's numbers weren't high enough, and that "tali fan haters" where giving her a 1 just to spite her, because no one could possibly dislike tali!

Don't act like this is just one group of people saying this, because everyone is being a **** about the polls, and yes, all "fangroups" have people intentionally screwing with the surveys.

I didn't "act like anything" I said I'm disappointed by the poor sportsmanship.

I didn't name ANYONE, or ANY particular group.

What in the sweet name of hell is so wrong with you all, that noone can tolerate EVERYONE'S favorite characters?

and for the record, this applies to EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER-FAN-GROUP.

Tali, Liara, Miranda, Ashley, all of you.

With everyone it must be *your* favorite, or noone's.

I stand by my opinion. I would rather see EVERYONE'S favorites return.

enjoy bashing on each other.

I love how it can't possibly be that Tali really is just that popular, it surely must be an underhanded conspiracy by her fans.

but I certainly did not expect other fans to react with such blatantly poor sportsmanship

If you didn't outright say it, you implied it.

And I never even said anything about peoples' favorites... wtf?
All I said is that it's not just one group that is saying the surveys are being ****ed with, it's EVERYONE.

I didn't say it's one group either. Whoever DIDN'T see the results they wanted, blindly assumes it's some stupidass conspiracy, REGARDLESS OF THE CHARACTER. In this instance, it's Tali.

If Tali wasn't No.1, and, say Liara or Miranda was, EVERYONE ELSE would be pulling the same freakin' crap.

[DigitalMaster37]

ComTrav wrote...

You know, if you wanted to settle this, you could do a comparison.

See how many people who rated Tali their "Most Favorite" gave a 3 or less to some LI.

Select a random sample and see how they rated the same LI.

I can do that that now... gimme sec

EDIT: wait for XX55XX's cause this is gonna take time, but you can clearly see that the votes are "funny". Maybe XX55XX will prove otherwise, but that's what I got from just skimming through.

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 13 février 2010 - 12:29 .