82 réponses à ce sujet

[glen55]

Just my opinion, but Bioware dropped the ball with the Samara character.

Now before I actually get started, let me admit I haven't played the whole game through yet, and in fact I haven't even done Samar's loyalty mission.  But I'm in enough to have a lot of unanswered questions: see below.

[begin rant]

I'm told I'm supposed to tremble in fear and awe because Samara is an "Asari justicar."  Woo-woo-woo, an Asari justicar. 

I known I'm supposed to be awed and a-feared because the volus and asari cop are awed and feared.  But what is this thing I'm supposed to be in awe of?  So far as I can tell, just a female Charlie Bronson type roaming around dispensing vigilante justice according to some "code" that I know absolutely nothing about.

How do you get to be an "Asari justicar?"  Are you born that way?  Is it something genetic you get from your parents?  Are justicars a species or just regular Asaris who pass a civil service exam?  Or do you go to justicar school and get a degree?  Or do you just wake up one morning and decide to be a justicar?  How many of 'em are there?  Are they organized?  Who made up the "code?"  What are its principles?  And basically, any other question you might decide to ask because you won't find any answers in the game, at least as far as I can tell.

Bioware decided to skip actually explaining any of this crap and instead just awe you out with attitude.  Doesn't work for me.  Makes it even worse that the voice actress always talks in these melo-dramatic "fear me for I am a justicar" tones.

p.s. You'd think they'd have something better than silicon for bad breast implants in The Future.

[zeypher]

or instead you can play the game and find out what samara actually is? what justicars usually are? hell the lady you talk to for going to the illium spaceport can give you an idea what justicars are. seriously its more fun to discover. So my advice is actually play the game and not nerd rage for no reason

[tmp7704]

You can get most if not all answers to your questions from Samara herself...

Modifié par tmp7704, 12 février 2010 - 04:27 .

[glen55]

Well, I've already seen about 2 hours of Samara gameplay. Lots of attitude about justicars, precious few facts - what you get from talking to people in Illium is mostly attitude, and I have had all those conversations more than once.



Even if the facts come around later, unexplained attitude is something I find boring.

[WarlockSoL]

Wait wait wait... you *just* recruited Samara and are complaining that you don't know anything about her? Try talking to her. Try doing her loyalty mission. You might *gasp* find out more about her and Justicars!

[NeinoRanatos]

I agree with zeypher. You need to talk to NPCs to discover all this.



As to one reason why you should fear her: She's a super-biotic, like Jack.

[zeypher]

k to simplify it for you justicars are like spectres to the asari. To an asari a justicar is above the law, as the represent justice. so just like shep has a attitude cause hes a badass, samara has her attitude.

Sometimes i do wonder do people actually know what they are playing

[glen55]

No, I didn't just recruit her. I've been on a couple of missions with her, had a couple of conversations with her.



I know I might - and figure I probably will - get a lot of these answers later. But her story certainly starts out with a huge wad of unexplained mystification. I hate that kind of story-telling, and Bioware typically does not go down that road.

[Looy]

glen55 wrote...
Now before I actually get started, let me admit I haven't played the whole game through yet, and in fact I haven't even done Samar's loyalty mission.  But I'm in enough to have a lot of unanswered questions: see below.

So, you are aware that answers to those questions may be further down the line, but rant anyway.

Modifié par Looy, 12 février 2010 - 04:32 .

[zeypher]

do remember justicars are rare, they are very few in number. So who better to learn about them from than samara herself. And she has a reason to have an attitude, she has been fightin for close to 600 years.

[Grand_Commander13]

I never thought of the Justicars as a group that Bioware tried to build up a mystique around. I mean, Samara's tracking officers explains all you really need to know: they're a monastic order that runs around dispensing vigilante justice according to their own code. Her attitude is "oh, don't tell me she's already killed somebody!" and not "whoooo, Justicaaaaaaars..."

[tmp7704]

glen55 wrote...

But her story certainly starts out with a huge wad of unexplained mystification. I hate that kind of story-telling, and Bioware typically does not go down that road.

It doesn't have to be everyone's cup of tea but some people do like this kind of storytelling where you get to learn bits on your own until you can put together the full picture. Having various kinds of storytelling so there's something interesting for everyone doesn't make it "fail", just something not up your personal alley.

[glen55]

I got nothing against mysteries and figuring things out. It's just when things are drenched in mood and you're being told to have some sort of emotional reaction - just not WHY. It reminds me of the parts of movies like The Matrix that I don't like.



As it turns out, The Matrix is a decent flick in spite of all the faux mystification crap. And sure, Samara might turn out to be a decent character in the end. But it still won't make the way her story begins good. It sucks.

[WarlockSoL]

glen55 wrote...

But her story certainly starts out with a huge wad of unexplained mystification. I hate that kind of story-telling, and Bioware typically does not go down that road.

Because we knew everything about the Reapers, Protheans, Collectors, etc from the minute they were introduced?

[zeypher]

if you know the story before hand, what is the point of playing the game. The same applies to a good book

[glen55]

WarlockSoL wrote...

glen55 wrote...

But her story certainly starts out with a huge wad of unexplained mystification. I hate that kind of story-telling, and Bioware typically does not go down that road.

Because we knew everything about the Reapers, Protheans, Collectors, etc from the minute they were introduced?

Different story.  Reapers, Protheans and Collectors are SUPPOSED TO BE subjects we don't know anything about, whereas apparently everybody and his sister's boyfriend's dog knows about Asari justicars.  The volus says everybody has been talking about her.  The cop is all afraid of her because of things the cop knows about justicars; but all the cop tells us is general things, nothing about any specific justicars or any specific things they've done. 

Nor why this advanced, sophisticated species relies on vigilantes who seem to kill fairly casually for their justice.  In human society, it's pretty much a constant that the more draconian the system of justice is, the LESS advanced is the society.  And Asari don't seem like the kind of people who would be big believers in frontier justice.

[WarlockSoL]

glen55 wrote...

WarlockSoL wrote...

glen55 wrote...

But her story certainly starts out with a huge wad of unexplained mystification. I hate that kind of story-telling, and Bioware typically does not go down that road.

Because we knew everything about the Reapers, Protheans, Collectors, etc from the minute they were introduced?

Different story.  Reapers, Protheans and Collectors are SUPPOSED TO BE subjects we don't know anything about, whereas apparently everybody and his sister's boyfriend's dog knows about Asari justicars.  The volus says everybody has been talking about her.  The cop is all afraid of her because of things the cop knows about justicars; but all the cop tells us is general things, nothing about any specific justicars or any specific things they've done. 

Nor why this advanced, sophisticated species relies on vigilantes who seem to kill fairly casually for their justice.  In human society, it's pretty much a constant that the more draconian the system of justice is, the LESS advanced is the society.  And Asari don't seem like the kind of people who would be big believers in frontier justice.

Last time I checked, Shepard wasn't an Asari or on Illium when Samara arrived...

[Maloar]

They're rarely seen outside Asari space, so why would you know anything about them? Most people on Ilium know about them because it's an Asari world. The Volus knows because he's a criminal and probably makes it his business to know about people who's lives revolve around hunting criminals.

[Valmy]

glen55 wrote...

Bioware decided to skip actually explaining any of this crap and instead just awe you out with attitude.  Doesn't work for me.  Makes it even worse that the voice actress always talks in these melo-dramatic "fear me for I am a justicar" tones.

Rather you skipped reading about any of this crap in the many many dialogs about Justicars and instead just whined on the forums.  I can see how that might not work for you.

[-Area51-Silent]

Glen, when you talk to someone on the street do they just come up to you and explain everything about themselves right away? Because essentially in the game you're a guy on the street going up to Samara asking for help.



You should talk to her, and use the "Investigate" option as well, you will figure out a lot about her, and through the loyalty mission you will figure out even more, down to the reasoning behind what she does. Hell, you will even figure out why people fear this person so much if you continue talking to her throughout the game.



I think her character fits a pretty interesting bill, but in a great RPG a load of facts arn't just dumped at you, the personal conversations are important to learn, otherwise there would be no purpose behind them at all.

[Tyfreaky]

glen55 wrote...

No, I didn't just recruit her. I've been on a couple of missions with her, had a couple of conversations with her.

I know I might - and figure I probably will - get a lot of these answers later. But her story certainly starts out with a huge wad of unexplained mystification. I hate that kind of story-telling, and Bioware typically does not go down that road.

Uhmm the whole point of Samara and Thane is to find out about why they are bad asses. You get a opening cutscen with both characters that pretty much tells you not to screw with either of said characters and you get very little background... because your supposed to dig deeper.

Even the dossiers state that very little is known about them because either

• They are so good that they leave little intel
• Are so rare that their reputation alone is what caused Cerebrus to figure they would be a good fit for the team.

And so your upset because she is a mystery women with an attitude and you expect to instantly know all about them?
Have you played with her AT ALL really? 

Even the cop EXPLAINS why she has and attitude and thats on her recruitment mission:

• She's a 1000+ year old Asari with 600+ years of combat, criminal justice, tactics, and psychological training. Of course she has an ego....

Dude I'm not trying to be a troll but come on, what you have done is the video game equivalent of  "Too long did not read ..." and you really expect us to sympathise?

I know attention deficit disorder is a common fad now but really? REALLY? Really?

Modifié par Tyfreaky, 12 février 2010 - 05:12 .

[glen55]

I probably didn't explain myself very well, but it's not the fact that I don't know Samara's entire life-history or all the details of her profession right away that bothers me. It's the fact that Bioware seems to jump the story-telling part and go straight to the part where you're supposed to have some kind of dramatic reaction to the fact that she's a justicar. I'm going to want to hold that in abeyance until I know more about what in the heck they are.



It's kind of a trend in story-telling these days, especially in Hollywood. Build a story out of mood and insinuation, nothing else. Pretty weak sauce in my view, and even if Samara becomes the greatest, bestest-rounded character EVAR later on, her story still had quite a weak start, and that won't change.



To that extent, my post title is a bit over the top since my rant is really more about the introduction of Samara than about her overall characterishness, which is something I don't know enough yet to rant about, But you know how it goes with post titles on a busy forum like this; use something dramatic or find yourself on page 3 in 15 minutes. My apologies for that (but they may not be fully sincere because I would do it again.)

[IMTrick]

glen55 wrote...

I probably didn't explain myself very well, but it's not the fact that I don't know Samara's entire life-history or all the details of her profession right away that bothers me. It's the fact that Bioware seems to jump the story-telling part and go straight to the part where you're supposed to have some kind of dramatic reaction to the fact that she's a justicar. I'm going to want to hold that in abeyance until I know more about what in the heck they are.

I am finding it amusing that this whole thing is not much more than a complaint that people are acting in a way you do not have enough information to understand...  Which *precisely* explains why people react to Samara the way they do. Justicars are rare and mysterious to most people, causing them to react with fear because they do not understand them.  You seem to be reacting with discomfort to the fact that you do not understand why they are acting that way.

It strikes me as really ironic.

[Evilbrood]

This thread is a fail.