210 réponses à ce sujet

[rumination888]

sinosleep wrote...

rumination888 wrote...
Except that Reave/Warp aren't exclusive to Adepts.

And when Average Gatsby uses singularity all the time in his vids some people say he spams singularity too much. The argument still doesn't make any sense. EVERY class in this game becomes a spam bot on immunity except for maybe engineers. And guess what most of their powers are good for, stripping defenses, so I guess they are broken as well.

I don't understand peoples argument that class X spams Y either.

My arguments have always been "Pull, Throw, Shockwave suck vs. protection(addendum: most other powers are good vs. certain types of protection AND health)" and "Warp is the most used biotic for the classes that have access to it".
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that something is wrong when Reave is so high in peoples "must have bonus power" for all classes, as it is essentially an alternate version of Warp. Neural Shock is a CC move, and much like Pull, Throw, and Shockwave, cannot be used on protected enemies.... have you ever seen ANYONE suggest picking that up?

Modifié par rumination888, 13 février 2010 - 03:58 .

[Roxlimn]

rumination888:

Reave is overrated. That is the problem with that. Neural Shock only works on organics. That is the problem with that. Throw works on protected enemies. That is the problem with complaints like yours - they're not based on fact but on exaggeration and ignorance. Take it to the other thread.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 13 février 2010 - 04:03 .

[rumination888]

Roxlimn wrote...

rumination888:

Reave is overrated. That is the problem with that. Neural Shock only works on organics. That is the problem with that. Throw works on protected enemies. That is the problem with complaints like yours - they're not based on fact but on exaggeration and ignorance. Take it to the other thread.

I'm confused.

Lets say there are 3 abilities:
Ability X does 100 damage
Ability Y does 25 damage
Ability Z does 0 damage

You're telling me that Ability Y is better than Z, but just as effective as X?

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Roxlimn wrote...

rumination888:

 Please take it to the other thread where it belongs.

Actually, the first post in the thread said the video was made to refute the claim that biotics are weak. The claim has not been refuted by the video or anything else presented in this thread. You can't go around with guns blazing and squad ammo claiming you are refuting the claim that biotics are weak. And spamming warp/reave.

Oh, and "the other side" of the debate started using phrases like " sheer stupidity" and those who want biotics improved as being whiners.

i find that those who go around throwing insults and wanting to suppress the other side of the debate have weak arguments.

[gr00grams]

You can't go around with guns blazing and squad ammo claiming you are refuting the claim that biotics are weak. And spamming warp/reave.

I am not entering the fray again here.
But for the record, I am not just spamming warp and reave.
Also, I usually only shoot the harbingers, as they have a massive amount of hp.

If you watch the vid, this is quite easy to see.
I usually strip a defense with either reave/warp yes. Those two skills are the best tools for the job.
That is it for those two. Then comes pull, singularity, throw, slam, etc.
For larger foes, I lock them down with singularity, then hit them with everything I have, because enemies on insanity are hp brickwalls regardless of class. This however, does not happen until I deal with all their lackies, which is usually a warp or reave to strip the barrier, then pulls, throws, singularities, shockwaves, you name it.

The reason for these strategies is simple, the regens on skills like pull/throw etc are much faster.
I can lock one harbinger with singularity, then pull/throw the rest ensuring only one spawns.

Continue never-ending argument.

Cheers,

Modifié par gr00grams, 13 février 2010 - 04:23 .

[lockerlocke]

Wow, have any of these people actually played, and beaten, Insanity with an Adept? I lol'd when that idiot Graunt said Singularity did nothing to help your squad kill. Has he actually used Adepts at a high level? My god.

[rancid727]

ok so grumpy old wizard and rumination888 Are the kind of people that make excuse as to why they can not do this or can not do that.



And gr00grams sinosleep and Great(Average) Gatsby are people who say well i cant do that so lets try this well that did not work lets try that



till they find what works.





Who will have more Success?



I say the topic about the Adept being weak/broke has been refuted successfully

[Roxlimn]

rumination888:

Throw is not a damage power. It's a control power that happens to do a little bit of damage. It can be used to fantastic effect. Your inability to do so doesn't mean that it can't be done.

Grumpy Old Wizard:

The video speaks for itself. Reave+Pull+Throw is a 4 second spammable insta-kill combination that doesn't even require you to stop running or aim all that well. There was no Reave or Warp spam. Count again.

It's possible that you're missing the points where he uses Pull or Throw because (as I do), he doesn't pause the game to deploy it. Make sure to count Sing deployments, too.

Guns are an important part of every class. EVERY class. Both Sentinel and Engineer gain lots by it, and I hope we don't need to tell you how much Widow and Revenant adds to the Infiltrator and Soldier classes. gr00grams is using a Geth Pulse Rifle with Warp ammo because it's the singlemost powerful gun you can have for removing Barrier defenses. He occasionally uses this in combination with Reave for removing Barrier defenses - because Reave doesn't cool down fast enough.

Neither does Warp, actually.

Squad Reave + Warp GPR for removing Barrier defenses, Warp Explosion or PullThrow for the kill. It goes very fast, as the video shows. I believe Shockwave was also used to great effect.

I can do a power count, if you like. Then you can call 20% Warp usage as "spam" if you like.

The video easily refutes claims that Pull and Throw are useless.  gr00grams can even be faulted for using this mission as an example because it has deadfalls everywhere, allowing him to use PullThrow insta kill more or less all the time.

PullThrow instakills pretty much everything in the video except Harbinger, and that guy he takes down with Reave/Warp just as any other class with those powers would.  However, while doing so, he's also holding down Harbinger with Singularity, which explains how he's going through these guys so fast and with such ease.

I challenge you to come up with a more impressive show of tackling the level using ONLY Warp and Reave as powers.  Please.  Money time.  Put your money where your mouth is.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 13 février 2010 - 04:46 .

[rumination888]

Roxlimn wrote...
Reave is overrated. That is the problem with
that. Neural Shock only works on organics. That is the problem with
that. Throw works on protected enemies. That is the problem with
complaints like yours - they're not based on fact but on exaggeration
and ignorance. Take it to the other thread.

Roxlimn wrote...
Throw is not a damage power. It's a control power that happens to do a little bit of damage. It can be used to fantastic effect. Your inability to do so doesn't mean that it can't be done.

Neural Shock is not a damage power. It's a control power that happens to also impair enemy accuracy. It can be used to fantastic effect. Your inability to do so doesn't mean that it can't be done.

Modifié par rumination888, 13 février 2010 - 04:49 .

[Varaige]

Just tossing my two cents in - "If you have the power, why not use it? If it works, why say it's overpowered? Isn't that the point of powers, to be effective?"

[Roxlimn]

rumination888:



I didn't say that I couldn't use Neural Shock to fantastic effect. I said that it had limited targeting parameters. It's nice enough to use every so often. Frankly, I don't understand why more people don't use it - it's great.

[rumination888]

Roxlimn wrote...

rumination888:

I didn't say that I couldn't use Neural Shock to fantastic effect. I said that it had limited targeting parameters. It's nice enough to use every so often. Frankly, I don't understand why more people don't use it - it's great.

You said Neural Shock had a problem.
I'm trying to get you to put 1 and 1 together to get 2, but you seem to be getting 11.

[Roxlimn]

rumination888:



That problem is in context with your question, "Why don't more people get Neural Shock?" I get the impression that people don't get Neural Shock because they don't like changing up their Advanced Training and find the organics-only limitation to be distasteful. It's a rep problem, not a game mechanical problem. It works fine.

[Graunt]

sinosleep wrote...

Dannok1234 wrote...
Every class has some special ability that they use over and over and over. Thats the skill that sets them apart from the other classes usually.
Cloak, Charge, Drone, Tech Armor, Adrenaline rush, Singularity. Might as well really call the classes by those names.
 

I don't know how many times I've said the same thing. Soldiers go pew pew pew adrenaline rush pew pew pew, infiltrators go cloak sniper cloak sniper cloak, vanguards go charge shotgun charge shotgun charge shotgun. Every class must be broken.

Except the only skill the Adept has that no other class can get is Singularity.  And it does jack with any defenses up.  Pull, which isn't even the class defining skill, yet one of the most fun can't even be used until they are low enough to where 1-2 shots of a weapon would finish them off anyway.

Modifié par Graunt, 13 février 2010 - 05:20 .

[gr00grams]

Except the only skill the Adept has that no other class can get is Singularity. And it does jack with any defenses up

The ending of part 3, which is uploading now will be just for you then.

The part where I chain singularity a scion, and just stand about 2ft infront of it, and it does nothing.



On insanity, with full armor. You'll see.

Like the harbingers, with full barriers/armor too. But I guess you've missed that in the first vid.

[rumination888]

Roxlimn wrote...

rumination888:

That problem is in context with your question, "Why don't more people get Neural Shock?" I get the impression that people don't get Neural Shock because they don't like changing up their Advanced Training and find the organics-only limitation to be distasteful. It's a rep problem, not a game mechanical problem. It works fine.

/facepalm
I don't even know why I bother.

[lazorexplosion]

Graunt wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

Dannok1234 wrote...
Every class has some special ability that they use over and over and over. Thats the skill that sets them apart from the other classes usually.
Cloak, Charge, Drone, Tech Armor, Adrenaline rush, Singularity. Might as well really call the classes by those names.
 

I don't know how many times I've said the same thing. Soldiers go pew pew pew adrenaline rush pew pew pew, infiltrators go cloak sniper cloak sniper cloak, vanguards go charge shotgun charge shotgun charge shotgun. Every class must be broken.

Except the only skill the Adept has that no other class can get is Singularity.  And it does jack with any defenses up.  Pull, which isn't even the class defining skill, yet one of the most fun can't even be used until they are low enough to where 1-2 shots of a weapon would finish them off anyway.

Wrong.

[sinosleep]

Graunt wrote...

Except the only skill the Adept has that no other class can get is Singularity.  And it does jack with any defenses up.  Pull, which isn't even the class defining skill, yet one of the most fun can't even be used until they are low enough to where 1-2 shots of a weapon would finish them off anyway.

Um..... yeah.....

Average Gatsby wrote...

So I'm putting together a video series on playing the Adept through
some of the more difficult sections of the Insanity campaign. I'll be
updating the OP whenever a new video or section is posted, followed by
a corresponding post.

The section is going to be about tearing through Horizon: (UPDATE - Completed
Adepting Through Insanity P1
Adepting Through Insanity P2
Adepting Through Insanity P3
Adepting Through Insanity P4
Adepting Through Insanity P5
Adepting Through Insanity P6 

How To:
Biotic Combos 
Fighting Geth/Synthetics/Shielded Enemies P1
Fighting Geth/Synthetics/Shielded Enemies P2
Save the Crates! 

Please feel free to give me any feedback you like. Like it? Hate it? I just want to hear from you.

Singularity repeatedly put to great use.

Modifié par sinosleep, 13 février 2010 - 05:43 .

[Arde5643]

If you keep feeding the trolls, they keep coming back.

[Roxlimn]

rumination888:



Neither do I. If you played as much as you posted, you would understand our point better. People post videos because it's a do-thing, not a theory-thing. I post actual strategies that work, not baseless wrong crap like "Singularity doesn't do anything."



When I say that you'll be able to basically win an encounter using biotics against multiple targets in 3 seconds or so, I will post where you can do it, how you can do it, and which powers you'll use to do it. We get real around here.



If you have an issue with using the same power to strip defenses, then that issue extends to all effects-using classes, not just the Adept. Area Overload/Energy Drain is the single-best power for removing multiple Shields at once, and it's pointless to get another because of universal cooldown. You WILL use Overload to deal with Shields using a Sentinel. That's just how it goes.



It sounds to me like that's an issue you find with ME2 in general, not the Adept in particular. And no, it's not a problem that's worse with the Adept. I checked.

[sinosleep]

Graunt and I are boys.

[rumination888]

Roxlimn wrote...

rumination888:

Neither do I. If you played as much as you posted, you would understand our point better. People post videos because it's a do-thing, not a theory-thing. I post actual strategies that work, not baseless wrong crap like "Singularity doesn't do anything."

When I say that you'll be able to basically win an encounter using biotics against multiple targets in 3 seconds or so, I will post where you can do it, how you can do it, and which powers you'll use to do it. We get real around here.

If you have an issue with using the same power to strip defenses, then that issue extends to all effects-using classes, not just the Adept. Area Overload/Energy Drain is the single-best power for removing multiple Shields at once, and it's pointless to get another because of universal cooldown. You WILL use Overload to deal with Shields using a Sentinel. That's just how it goes.

It sounds to me like that's an issue you find with ME2 in general, not the Adept in particular. And no, it's not a problem that's worse with the Adept. I checked.

Alright. I give in. You're right.
Throw, Shockwave, and Pull are useful against protection.
The OP's video didn't use Warp/Reave the majority of the time.
Warp/Reave is exclusive to the Adept.
Its amazing how well you counter-argued each of those points.

[Christina Norman]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

The adept is supposedly capable of killing and controlling the battlefield without firing a shot according to the trailer.  Show me an adept doing that and moving as fast as a soldier class and I'll agree that biotics need no adjustment.

That statement was released to describe normal difficulty. All classes are intended to need to use powers and weapons effectively to succeed on Insanity difficulty.

[sinosleep]

rumination888 wrote...
Alright. I give in. You're right.
Throw, Shockwave, and Pull are useful against protection.
The OP's video didn't use Warp/Reave the majority of the time.
Warp/Reave is exclusive to the Adept.
Its amazing how well you counter-argued each of those points.

Why should throw, shockwave, and pull be usefull against protection? 
What is wrong with using warp/reave if they are the correct tool for the job? 

From what I saw in the vid it was warp/reave to remove defenses, other powers to kill the mobs. What's wrong with that?

[gr00grams]

Well, they aren't done processing yet, so no HD etc yet, but seems people are viewing them already... sooooo....

PART 2 AND 3 ARE UP!
I will add the URL's to the OP.

P.S. Thanks Christina, would be cool to know what you BioWare folks think

Modifié par gr00grams, 13 février 2010 - 06:22 .