210 réponses à ce sujet

[Trefecka]

sinosleep wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Wide Singularity disappears quicker the more protected enemies are caught in its radius. On insanity, it disappears almost instantly if it touches more than 1 protected enemy(not an exaggeration, if you ever see it last long on Insanity, thats either due to the Heavy version, the enemy is unprotected, or its only holding 1 target). If you're catching unprotected enemies in its 3m radius, well.... incinerate/overload will catch unprotected enemies and CC them all via panicing/stunning them AND dealing damage. 

7 meter range on unstable warp explosion.

Random fact: Unstable warp on squad mates has a 9s cooldown vs 12s of normal/heavy warp.

[gr00grams]

You made use of them. That doesn't mean that they're useful. You always had alternatives in killing them with only health remaining.



Your vids are great, don't get me wrong. But they don't prove that throw, warp, and shockwave are useful. They merely show that they can be used.



Look at Gatsby's videos. They prove that you don't need those powers at all.

I have found, that health is actually the slowest to take damage.

I realize many may think I'm crazy, or what not, but without something like shedder ammo, or a bonus to health damage, it is actually the hardest to take down.



The reason I think this gets confused, is that a lot of large enemies don't actually have any health; Harbingers and Scions come to mind.



With health only though, I find pull/throw to be probably the fastest means to and end.

Also, warp alone does not deal very good damage at all, unless it's something that is weak to it (barrier etc). It is definitely not the best method on pure health, unless in combo with singularity.



I agree to a point you don't need powers to an extent.

On the suicide mission, if you want to keep the person in the vents alive, on insanity you need to be extremely fast.



You do not have the time to deal with multiple harbingers and the like. They need to die fast, and surprisingly pull/throws with a single harbinger held in singularity is probably the fastest.



This also goes for the platform battle, the scion battles, and the final battle.

If you are not extremely efficient in removing the drones, you can easily get overwhelmed with harbingers and their ilk.



I look at adept this way;



It has pretty much the best of everything, except a few points.

No, it doesn't get cloak, adrenaline, etc, but you can easily have all the ammo powers and such from your squad. That leaves only the class specific powers to contest, and I find adepts aresenal much superior in this regard.



I think we're all going to have to agree to disagree, as all sides are very entrenched and are not wavering.

[lockerlocke]

It's like talking to a brick wall with these people. They'll never be convinced because they're so set on seeing Adepts as being gimped.

[themaxzero]

Well Drone isn't just better for YMIR. It's also better for Krogan, Scions, Praetorians, Varren and Robot Dogs.

[D4rk50ul808]

I agree with the O/P and I'm fairly surprised that so much arguing is happening about the effectiveness of the other powers. Sure you could run through spamming only Singularity and Warp and more than likely win. It doesn't mean its most effective. I haven't watched the videos but I can tell you that I use all the biotic powers in my team.



Throw/Slam are much more effective than simply throwing another warp against most enemies. Pull is a great power and i find it much more useful than Singularity in certain situations.



Shockwave is good but I don't like to forgo a skill evolution to get it, If I use it Jack is the source. She is also how I get my Warp Ammo in the rare event that I need to fire a round into a charging enemy to get past that last bit of defense.



I'm sure I could beat the game as a Soldier with just a Pistol, but does that make an argument that the rest of the weapons are useless valid?

[Graunt]

gr00grams wrote...
I have found, that health is actually the slowest to take damage.
I realize many may think I'm crazy, or what not, but without something like shedder ammo, or a bonus to health damage, it is actually the hardest to take down.

The reason I think this gets confused, is that a lot of large enemies don't actually have any health; Harbingers and Scions come to mind.

Geth have nearly double, if not triple the amount of protection than they do actual life, same thing applies to husks.  Can't really say for sure about humans, vorcha and krogans but heavy mechs have two layers of protection and seem to only require a few seconds of fire to take down as opposed to how long it took to strip them.  The generic security bots also have more protection than life as do any of the Asari Vanguards and other elite humanoids.  I'll check the collectors in a minute.

Modifié par Graunt, 13 février 2010 - 08:59 .

[gr00grams]

Do count that most who say health vanishes in seconds are using ammo POWERS.



But whatever, I'm not arguing anymore.

I know that biotics rock. I don't need anyone trying to tell me anything. I've played it straight through insanity and insanity+. I know what I've seen.



All I see here are words. I have first hand seen what adept can do.

[JuzJoe]

Hey, I love this video! Smooth gameplay, nice music choice to set the mood. Inspirational, makes me wanna try Adept too.

[Graunt]

gr00grams wrote...

Do count that most who say health vanishes in seconds are using ammo POWERS.

But whatever, I'm not arguing anymore.
I know that biotics rock. I don't need anyone trying to tell me anything. I've played it straight through insanity and insanity+. I know what I've seen.

All I see here are words. I have first hand seen what adept can do.

Warp ammo doesn't do extra damage to health unless they have some form of biotic already on them.  It also takes two headshots with and sniper rifle and Warp ammo to remove a collector barrier and two headshots to finish their health. What does this tell you?  The only ammo type I've used my entire Soldier playthrough were disruptor and warp, neither of which do "extra damage to health" by default unless they are synthetic.

Modifié par Graunt, 13 février 2010 - 09:28 .

[gr00grams]

Takes one warp/reave to remove a collector barrier, unless it carries a heavy weapon. Then at most 2, or 1 with a few shots from something.



Anyway, I'm not arguing you. I have given up. I see no point in it. You guys can think what you like.



However, now that part 3 is up, you should watch the end of it for an example of how singularity does nothing on protected enemies.



Cheers,

[Average Gatsby]

I favorited all three videos. Also grats that a dev responded to your thread.

[gr00grams]

Thanks
I'll catch up on yours and everyone etc after this next week probably, when time permits.
Still gotta finish the last vid, but other RL matters pressing till then :/

Cheers,

Modifié par gr00grams, 13 février 2010 - 10:05 .

[Average Gatsby]

Also, I needed to throw some fuel on the fire of some of the debates here:

Adepts Don't Even Need Guns  (or pausing)

I don't think Christina Norman misled us.

Modifié par Average Gatsby, 13 février 2010 - 11:15 .

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Nice gameplay

5 stars to 3 parts you've posted.

I'm a soldier in game and I think Avenger is better than Geth Pulse Rifle

[themaxzero]

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

Nice gameplay
5 stars to 3 parts you've posted.
I'm a soldier in game and I think Avenger is better than Geth Pulse Rifle

It is, for a Soldier.

An Adept cares more about stripping Shields and Barriers. Once the target is down to Armour they have Warp and once it's down to health its pretty much instantly dead.

Few things are as good at stripping shields as the Geth Rifle. SMGs are great but are terribly inaccurate when shooting at an enemy at medium range or longer. A Geth Rifle can strip shields well at medium range and maybe even a bit further.

Modifié par themaxzero, 13 février 2010 - 11:53 .

[sinosleep]

Average Gatsby wrote...

Also, I needed to throw some fuel on the fire of some of the debates here:

Adepts Don't Even Need Guns  (or pausing)

I don't think Christina Norman misled us.

Holy crap. Well done man, you could have cleared that in around 2:30 or faster using guns.

[PnXMarcin1PL]

With a soldier there is completly different gamestyle and experience. I can tell you that

[tonnactus]

matt654321 wrote...


Ymir's are one of the toughests (the toughest?) enemies in the entire game, so any advantage against them is not moot.

They are also the most dumb and predictable enemies in the game.There are not a real problem.

[Roxlimn]

I also find that statement kind of strange. Did you not know, matt654321, that in most fights involving YMIR Mechs, that there is a position that you can go to where, under cover, you will essentially be invulnerable to their fire forever? Not saying that Drones are moot against YMIR Mechs. That's certainly a good thing for the Engineers, but it takes nothing away from Singularity.

[davidshooter]

Mechs are easy if there are two there is always a place they can't get you and if there is only one there is always something to play peek-aboo around.

[Christina Norman]

Graunt wrote...

Geth have nearly double, if not triple the amount of protection than they do actual life, same thing applies to husks.  Can't really say for sure about humans, vorcha and krogans but heavy mechs have two layers of protection and seem to only require a few seconds of fire to take down as opposed to how long it took to strip them.  The generic security bots also have more protection than life as do any of the Asari Vanguards and other elite humanoids.  I'll check the collectors in a minute.

Almost all this information is not correct, where is it coming from?

[Christina Norman]

Just a last comment on insanity. As expected - the community is already greatly exceeding our highest expectations for playing insanity well. You're also figuring out naturally all the advanced tactics we built in to succeed at insanity. The best adept, vanguard, etc. players out there are now BioWare community members and not devs. Pat yourselves on the back.

[Roxlimn]

Christina Norman:



Thanks for the vote of confidence. In nearly every commentary I've read about how defenses are higher than Health on Insanity, there has been no evidence put forth. I suspect that most of that information is just a forum myth - a misconception that's fed by social forces - in this case, the inability of some players to leverage other biotic powers to effect.



Whenever I've personally tried to gauge Health and Defense numbers using powers or unmodified gunfire as a measuring stick, the Health bar was larger for most enemies. Geth appeared to have slightly larger Shields than Health - maybe between 50% to 75% larger, but certainly quite far from a 200% advantage.



Graunt:



In the interest of engendering discussion, I invite you to replicate my method and relate your findings. To gauge relative health and defense values for the purposes of optimization, my go-to measuring stick is the Vindicator Rifle shooting direct to the body. That way, there is no confounding headshot modifier, and the Vindicator is not advantaged against Health, Armor, Shields, or Barrier. As far as I can tell, it damages all equally.



By this measure, it takes one burst fire from a non-ammo-modified Vindicator at 40% upgrade to deplete the armor of a Vorcha on Hardcore. It takes two or three such bursts to kill the Vorcha if it has no armor, depending on how much damage your team does. Certainly, a krogan, even on Health, will absorb much more damage than that. I believe it takes upwards of 6 damage bursts from a non ammo-modified Vindicator to drop a krogan without armor on Hardcore.

[GCreature]

Excellent vid', you made it look effortless.



Did you use Jack's Warp Ammo a lot during the whole playthrough, or just when fighting enemies with barriers? Is the extra damage vs enemies affected by biotics a good enough reason to take it over other ammo types? Or was using the best ammo to strip defenses down more useful?



I'm also a little bit confused about the drama people are creating over using weapons and squad mates, in a squad based third person shooter.

[matt654321]

gr00grams wrote...

Takes one warp/reave to remove a collector barrier, unless it carries a heavy weapon. Then at most 2, or 1 with a few shots from something.

That's because warp/reave does double damage against barriers.

gr00grams wrote...

Anyway, I'm not arguing you. I have given up. I see no point in it. You guys can think what you like.

Yet you continue to argue. Good job not arguing.

gr00grams wrote...

However, now that part 3 is up, you should watch the end of it for an example of how singularity does nothing on protected enemies.

Cheers,

That's not what people are saying. Singularity working on protected foes is pretty well known at this point. Most of the arguments are directed at throw, shockwave, and pull.