210 réponses à ce sujet

[_Dannok1234]

Graunt wrote...

Dannok1234 wrote...
Couple of questions. Which geth do you maintain have far less health then shields? I know that it's not Geth hunters. I know that it's not Geth troopers (If there is a difference it must be tiny). So which ones?

Actually, pay attention to the troopers.  Once their shields are gone, they drop almost instantly.  A really easy place to test it out is either on Legion's side mission or on Tali's recruitment mission, especially in the room where you pick up a charge and there's the recording about the mining laser when the handful of troopers and a Hunter/Prime drops.

Also it's interesting how you start out saying that you know for a fact, that you spend more time removing barriers/shields from enemies then you do on health. Then you go on to say it's only for Elites.

Please quote where I said "it's only for Elites".  I never said that, I said at east.

Here you go, a couple of posts up :
<know for a fact that I spend more time trying to remove a barrier than I do actually finishing an enemy once it's off, at least on the Asari Vanguards and other "elite" type humanoids>

My bad, I thought you only ment elites since that is the enemy types you listed. It doesn't actually make it more believable if you claim it's for all mobs (including those two elites).

About the Geth Troopers, their shields go down in one hit, their health goes down in one hit. I don't see much difference, could be due to mostly using shotguns etc. Geth hunters by the way need 1 shot + 2 melee(no special ammo and using the Eviscerator), same thing for it's health.
Thats why I'm inclined to think that the health to shield ratio on Geths on insanity is fairly close to equal. There might be a difference, but if there is, I believe it to be fairly insignificant.

[themaxzero]

fredefrede wrote...

gr00grams wrote...


Part 3 is up! (processing done! available in 1080p!)

www.youtube.com/watch

Cheers,

Lol @ 3.08 where the collector drone turns into harbinger mid-air after you pulled it over a cliff

But yeah great vid, i wouldn't say you spam warp/reave, more like applied the best biotics for the situation.. but if you came to prove people otherwise, don't. this is the internet; haters gonna hate and whiners gonna whine

I think the video is the perfect video of why Lift/Pull/Throw can't effect protected targets. Even of the target's feet is off the ground for just 1-2 seconds a quick Throw/Lift/Pull means instant death regardless of HP or Protections.

[themaxzero]

matt654321 wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

Look, I've played through the various specs and I can talk about it because I really did try out those combinations and it worked out for me pretty well. You guys don't even know how half the biotic powers work! I mean, I keep hearing you guys saying that Throw doesn't work on defended enemies.

Have you TRIED using it on a defended enemy? It actually does create a short stagger effect. By and large, I find your objections and suggestions reflective of someone who isn't really acquainted with the game mechanics.

Lol, fail at trying to make it look like I haven't tried that. The stagger effect is so short that it doesn't last long enough to let you pop out of cover and do anything. It does something, but it doesn't "work."

Shockwave does the same thing (have you actually tried that? probably not), but its startup and cooldown are so long that it puts you at a major frame disadvantage just by using the move.

No, they don't work. And yes, I've actually played and tried to get them to work. They simply don't.

How about this, I dont believe you. I think you are lying.

Prove me wrong.

Modifié par themaxzero, 13 février 2010 - 08:56 .

[matt654321]

themaxzero wrote...

matt654321 wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

Look, I've played through the various specs and I can talk about it because I really did try out those combinations and it worked out for me pretty well. You guys don't even know how half the biotic powers work! I mean, I keep hearing you guys saying that Throw doesn't work on defended enemies.

Have you TRIED using it on a defended enemy? It actually does create a short stagger effect. By and large, I find your objections and suggestions reflective of someone who isn't really acquainted with the game mechanics.

Lol, fail at trying to make it look like I haven't tried that. The stagger effect is so short that it doesn't last long enough to let you pop out of cover and do anything. It does something, but it doesn't "work."

Shockwave does the same thing (have you actually tried that? probably not), but its startup and cooldown are so long that it puts you at a major frame disadvantage just by using the move.

No, they don't work. And yes, I've actually played and tried to get them to work. They simply don't.

How about this, I dont believe you. I think you are lying.

Prove me wrong.

Try it. He's saying that I didn't know that throw will provide a very minor (we're talking about 1.5 seconds at most) stun. That statement had absolutely no basis.

There's no "proving" that. I don't think you even understand what he's saying - you're just a blind yes-man.

[themaxzero]

matt654321 wrote...

themaxzero wrote...

matt654321 wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

Look, I've played through the various specs and I can talk about it because I really did try out those combinations and it worked out for me pretty well. You guys don't even know how half the biotic powers work! I mean, I keep hearing you guys saying that Throw doesn't work on defended enemies.

Have you TRIED using it on a defended enemy? It actually does create a short stagger effect. By and large, I find your objections and suggestions reflective of someone who isn't really acquainted with the game mechanics.

Lol, fail at trying to make it look like I haven't tried that. The stagger effect is so short that it doesn't last long enough to let you pop out of cover and do anything. It does something, but it doesn't "work."

Shockwave does the same thing (have you actually tried that? probably not), but its startup and cooldown are so long that it puts you at a major frame disadvantage just by using the move.

No, they don't work. And yes, I've actually played and tried to get them to work. They simply don't.

How about this, I dont believe you. I think you are lying.

Prove me wrong.

Try it. He's saying that I didn't know that throw will provide a very minor (we're talking about 1.5 seconds at most) stun. That statement had absolutely no basis.

There's no "proving" that. I don't think you even understand what he's saying - you're just a blind yes-man.

So no proof then? Just your opinion?

[gr00grams]

I just did a test, that you all might like to know;

With the exact same character in the vids,
I was able to cast singularity on a collector drone and remove it's barrier in 2 heavy throws.
It is basically just as fast as using warp due to regen times.

I will now test shockwave via Jack in the same controlled scenario.

Just food for thought.

Modifié par gr00grams, 13 février 2010 - 09:06 .

[gr00grams]

This just in, 2 shockwaves from Jack have done similar.

it leaves less than 1/4 the barrier, but it's Jack, not me.

[Roxlimn]

matt654321:

It does actually last long enough for ME to pop off a sniper round, or back off from an advancing krogan. Yes, I know Shockwave does a similar effect, but it's harder to target because it takes longer to get to where it's going, it's got a longer gesture animation, and the cooldown is really long. I'm going to try using Shockwave seriously, myself, since I've been pleased with how I can use Throw.

No, they don't work. And yes, I've actually played and tried to get them to work. They simply don't.

Well, since many of us also play and got Throw to work reasonably well, I think it's more correct to say that you can't use Throw to save your character, not that it doesn't work.

gr00grams:

Interesting.  I HAD been using Throw to finish off small amounts of Health on various enemies -especially those behind cover.  Throw Field feels a lot like a mini-Warp Explosion, but I didn't realize that Hurricane Throw did that much damage.  I'll have to respec and try that out again.  

Modifié par Roxlimn, 13 février 2010 - 09:11 .

[themaxzero]

gr00grams wrote...

I just did a test, that you all might like to know;

With the exact same character in the vids,
I was able to cast singularity on a collector drone and remove it's barrier in 2 heavy throws.
It is basically just as fast as using warp due to regen times.

I will now test shockwave via Jack in the same controlled scenario.

Just food for thought.

How about Throw Field?

When testing Shockwave could you test if Heavy Shockwave takes more then Wide Shockwave? I want to know if higher newtons force means a more 'damage'.

I noticed this too when testing out Cryo Blast in the Garrus Loyalty mission. The Cryo Blast was taking half of the Bots Armour each cast.

Modifié par themaxzero, 13 février 2010 - 09:10 .

[Graunt]

Dannok1234 wrote...
About the Geth Troopers, their shields go down in one hit, their health goes down in one hit.

This only happens with a headshot from a sniper rifle, unless you're playing on casual.  Overload will remove all of the shields from a trooper with "one hit" and take a Hunter to around 1/4.

Modifié par Graunt, 13 février 2010 - 09:11 .

[gr00grams]

It appears heavy throw does much more damage to the protections.



My heavy throw takes about 2 shots to strip a collector barrier, Samaras a lot more.

Having a hard time making her not shoot, will get concrete info. soon.

[gr00grams]

Samara's throw field does about, or less than half the damage my heavy throw does to a harbinger barrier.

[Roxlimn]

gr00grams:



Wow. Hurricane Throw? That's pretty strong.

[gr00grams]

It seems also that heavy throw takes about 3 or so to remove a shield.



BTW, how I am testing:



Kill team.

Trap desired foe in singularity.

Commence skill spam to test.



They both however, throw, shockwave etc seem to have little impact at all on armor.

They will however strip either shields or barriers in a few shots, unless it is a sub-boss, or similar, like Heavy Mechs.



Using shockwave spam from both myself and Jack I seem to maintain the 'stagger' on entire mobs almost. One after the other.

[_Dannok1234]

Graunt wrote...

Dannok1234 wrote...
About the Geth Troopers, their shields go down in one hit, their health goes down in one hit.

This only happens with a headshot from a sniper rifle, unless you're playing on casual.  Overload will remove all of the shields from a trooper with "one hit" and take a Hunter to around 1/4.

I'm not sure we are even playing the same game at this point.
You can do this with a Vanguard using Scimitar Shotgun. Or you can one hit kill them with a shotgun blast to the head with the Eviscerator. This is on insanity obviously. Remember we are talking about Geth Trooper here. If you are refering to Geth hunter, then it needs 2 shots + 4 melee from a Eviscerator without ammo mods, or 4 shots and 3-4 melee's from a Scimitar. Half of those attacks are for the shield, the other half for the health. Just occurred to me that the shotgun does have a damage boost towards shields, so there might be a bit less health. But it's not really a big deal seeing as it takes the exact same number of attacks to bring down.

[matt654321]

themaxzero wrote...

matt654321 wrote...

themaxzero wrote...

matt654321 wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

Look, I've played through the various specs and I can talk about it because I really did try out those combinations and it worked out for me pretty well. You guys don't even know how half the biotic powers work! I mean, I keep hearing you guys saying that Throw doesn't work on defended enemies.

Have you TRIED using it on a defended enemy? It actually does create a short stagger effect. By and large, I find your objections and suggestions reflective of someone who isn't really acquainted with the game mechanics.

Lol, fail at trying to make it look like I haven't tried that. The stagger effect is so short that it doesn't last long enough to let you pop out of cover and do anything. It does something, but it doesn't "work."

Shockwave does the same thing (have you actually tried that? probably not), but its startup and cooldown are so long that it puts you at a major frame disadvantage just by using the move.

No, they don't work. And yes, I've actually played and tried to get them to work. They simply don't.

How about this, I dont believe you. I think you are lying.

Prove me wrong.

Try it. He's saying that I didn't know that throw will provide a very minor (we're talking about 1.5 seconds at most) stun. That statement had absolutely no basis.

There's no "proving" that. I don't think you even understand what he's saying - you're just a blind yes-man.

So no proof then? Just your opinion?

Do you realize that you're doing the equivalent of this scenario:

"This box is blue."

"Oh yeah? Prove it."

I'll offer the same kindergarten-level response that you're posting - No, you prove it.

[Siven80]

That actually makes sense, and is indeed very interesting.. as a soldiers Concussive shot does good dmg to barriers and uses the same damage type(Newtons) as Throw.

Oh and this Matt guy had the same atagonistic attitude in the soldier thread too.

Modifié par Siven80, 13 février 2010 - 09:25 .

[fredefrede]

themaxzero wrote...

fredefrede wrote...

gr00grams wrote...


Part 3 is up! (processing done! available in 1080p!)

www.youtube.com/watch

Cheers,

Lol @ 3.08 where the collector drone turns into harbinger mid-air after you pulled it over a cliff

But yeah great vid, i wouldn't say you spam warp/reave, more like applied the best biotics for the situation.. but if you came to prove people otherwise, don't. this is the internet; haters gonna hate and whiners gonna whine

I think the video is the perfect video of why Lift/Pull/Throw can't effect protected targets. Even of the target's feet is off the ground for just 1-2 seconds a quick Throw/Lift/Pull means instant death regardless of HP or Protections.

I agree with you, it would just make boss battles too easy if you could throw a heavy mech or elite over a cliff instantly
But i think it would be cool if throw/pull had the ability to knock people off their feet if they had protection, like force push in kotor.. that would give the adept som more cc and i think it would make the class more fun, if the game then was balanced of course.. So if they have protection they would just be thrown on the ground where they stand for a short duration, and if they had no protection they would be blown away.. i think it would work if you adjusted the game balance for it

[GCreature]

gr00grams wrote...

Using shockwave spam from both myself and Jack I seem to maintain the 'stagger' on entire mobs almost. One after the other.

Do you have the cooldown passives for Shepard and Jack maxed out?

[themaxzero]

gr00grams wrote...

It seems also that heavy throw takes about 3 or so to remove a shield.

BTW, how I am testing:

Kill team.
Trap desired foe in singularity.
Commence skill spam to test.

They both however, throw, shockwave etc seem to have little impact at all on armor.
They will however strip either shields or barriers in a few shots, unless it is a sub-boss, or similar, like Heavy Mechs.

Using shockwave spam from both myself and Jack I seem to maintain the 'stagger' on entire mobs almost. One after the other.

Throw would take longer to remove a shield since all Biotic Powers get a +50% Damge modifer against Barriers.

The armour might be there so you can't use Throw spam to Victory. No matter there is Warp and Reave for Armour.

[themaxzero]

Siven80 wrote...

That actually makes sense, and is indeed very interesting.. as a soldiers Concussive shot does good dmg to barriers and uses the same damage type(Newtons) as Throw.

Oh and this Matt guy had the same atagonistic attitude in the soldier thread too.

I know he passes his opinion off as fact. So he expects everyone to prove his opinion wrong.

Should of just ignored him in the first place, waste of time. Hopefully he will just go away.

Modifié par themaxzero, 13 février 2010 - 09:29 .

[GCreature]

fredefrede wrote...

I agree with you, it would just make boss battles too easy if you could throw a heavy mech or elite over a cliff instantly
But i think it would be cool if throw/pull had the ability to knock people off their feet if they had protection, like force push in kotor.. that would give the adept som more cc and i think it would make the class more fun, if the game then was balanced of course.. So if they have protection they would just be thrown on the ground where they stand for a short duration, and if they had no protection they would be blown away.. i think it would work if you adjusted the game balance for it

I'd love for Pull to be able yank a weapon out of an enemies hands a drop it a couple of feet away, so he has to waste a few seconds to pick it up, it'd need a longer cooldown though.

[themaxzero]

GCreature wrote...

fredefrede wrote...

I agree with you, it would just make boss battles too easy if you could throw a heavy mech or elite over a cliff instantly
But i think it would be cool if throw/pull had the ability to knock people off their feet if they had protection, like force push in kotor.. that would give the adept som more cc and i think it would make the class more fun, if the game then was balanced of course.. So if they have protection they would just be thrown on the ground where they stand for a short duration, and if they had no protection they would be blown away.. i think it would work if you adjusted the game balance for it

I'd love for Pull to be able yank a weapon out of an enemies hands a drop it a couple of feet away, so he has to waste a few seconds to pick it up, it'd need a longer cooldown though.

I think the Force Unleashed (pretty average game) Jedi Pull power did that, was damn useful.

[GCreature]

themaxzero wrote...

GCreature wrote...

fredefrede wrote...

I agree with you, it would just make boss battles too easy if you could throw a heavy mech or elite over a cliff instantly
But i think it would be cool if throw/pull had the ability to knock people off their feet if they had protection, like force push in kotor.. that would give the adept som more cc and i think it would make the class more fun, if the game then was balanced of course.. So if they have protection they would just be thrown on the ground where they stand for a short duration, and if they had no protection they would be blown away.. i think it would work if you adjusted the game balance for it

I'd love for Pull to be able yank a weapon out of an enemies hands a drop it a couple of feet away, so he has to waste a few seconds to pick it up, it'd need a longer cooldown though.

I think the Force Unleashed (pretty average game) Jedi Pull power did that, was damn useful.

Yeah it was average in almost every way, it was only the cool things you could do with your powers that made it enjoyable. Hell I hate the Star Wars films, but if they used their force powers like they do in Unleashed it'd be a lot better.

[Graunt]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Dannok1234 wrote...
About the Geth Troopers, their shields go down in one hit, their health goes down in one hit.

This only happens with a headshot from a sniper rifle, unless you're playing on casual.  Overload will remove all of the shields from a trooper with "one hit" and take a Hunter to around 1/4.

I'm not sure we are even playing the same game at this point.
You can do this with a Vanguard using Scimitar Shotgun. Or you can one hit kill them with a shotgun blast to the head with the Eviscerator. This is on insanity obviously. Remember we are talking about Geth Trooper here. If you are refering to Geth hunter, then it needs 2 shots + 4 melee from a Eviscerator without ammo mods, or 4 shots and 3-4 melee's from a Scimitar. Half of those attacks are for the shield, the other half for the health. Just occurred to me that the shotgun does have a damage boost towards shields, so there might be a bit less health. But it's not really a big deal seeing as it takes the exact same number of attacks to bring down.

A shotgun headshot at point blank range has the same effect as a sniper rifle yes?  Try using an SMG, Geth Pulse, Vindicator or Revenant.  Not everyone is playing a Vanguard and usually people don't have their squadmates shooting a shotgun from long distance.