As a point of curiosity, does anyone happen to know the +% dodge bonus of the talent Dark Passage?
Defense vs. Dodge?
Débuté par
Darkemorrow
, févr. 12 2010 05:47
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#27
Posté 06 août 2010 - 11:59
pedal2metal
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Nice thread, it helped me today as I built out my AW in Awakenings. Well, I made a high dodge AW (Level 23 currently) on Nightmare difficulty. I decided to test it out on Kal Hirol in solo mode.
I had the following equipment:
Helmet: First Enchanter's Cowl
Gloves: Gloves of Diligence
Armor: Reaper's Vestments
Boots: Cailan's Greaves
Weapon: Tried several: None, Maric's Blade/Cailan's Shield, Staff of the Magister Lord
Belt: Andruil's Blessing
Amulet: The Spellward
Rings: Lifegiver, Blood Ring
Active Powers: Arcane Shield, Rock Armor, Shimmering Shield, Elemental Master, Flamming Weapons
Stats:
Strength: 12
Dexterity: 29
Willpower: 29
Magic: 107
Cunning: 13
Constitution: 30
Armor: 53 (54 w/Cailan's Shield)
Defense: 108-115 (depending)
Spellpower: 112
I tested both w/o Combat Magic & w/Combat Magic. It should be noted that I obtained the Fade Shield Passive power which gives +15% dodge when Arcane Shield is active.
So the total Dodge for each case I think is:
Combat-Magic Off: 10+10+20+10+15 = 65%
Combat-Magic On: Above+25=90%
So w/CM off, I could run into a bunch of Darkspawn but I'd be taking a few hits although w/50+ armor rating, it wasn't immediately alarming but in 10-15 seconds, it could be. So definitely not "god-like".
W/CM on, it was ridiculous. I could sit there & basically do nothing, even w/golems attacking me, archers, children grubs, & emissary spells (I had 61% spell resistance too). Anyhow, I could beat them w/my fists & just go get a cup of coffee while the auto-attack work, use my staff only, use spells, use sword, etc.... Definitely "god-like". It also resisted shield bash, shield overpower, etc.... It didn't seem to resist the knockdown of the children grub attacks but there wasn't much, if any damage, just me sitting on the ground waiting to get up.
So in my experience, @90% dodge w/good armor rating (if you actually use real armor, you can get 70+), it's definitely "god-like" although I haven't tested the final boss (the Mother) yet which is the real test. However, you can get a pretty high rating if you use the Voice of the Velvet (+25%) w/Partha (+5%) & put 3 evasion runes in Golem Shell Armor (+15%). If you did this & kept the rest the same, that would give +125% dodge (along with about 70 armor rating, nice!).
As compared to Defense, I've had 150-170 defense & it's pretty solid too although I think it gets hit more often in general. Overall, I prefer the dodge approach simply from a playstyle consideration as I can outfit my mage mostly like a mage (Cailan's Greaves excepted) & then just use Glyph of Warding & Herioc Defense to boost defense.
I think either approach works (+90% dodge) or very high defense (150+) w/o much trouble although my preference is for the dodge (playstyle + slight edge, per the above test scenario).
This was all done on an Xbox 360.
thanks & best regards,
Pedal2Metal
I had the following equipment:
Helmet: First Enchanter's Cowl
Gloves: Gloves of Diligence
Armor: Reaper's Vestments
Boots: Cailan's Greaves
Weapon: Tried several: None, Maric's Blade/Cailan's Shield, Staff of the Magister Lord
Belt: Andruil's Blessing
Amulet: The Spellward
Rings: Lifegiver, Blood Ring
Active Powers: Arcane Shield, Rock Armor, Shimmering Shield, Elemental Master, Flamming Weapons
Stats:
Strength: 12
Dexterity: 29
Willpower: 29
Magic: 107
Cunning: 13
Constitution: 30
Armor: 53 (54 w/Cailan's Shield)
Defense: 108-115 (depending)
Spellpower: 112
I tested both w/o Combat Magic & w/Combat Magic. It should be noted that I obtained the Fade Shield Passive power which gives +15% dodge when Arcane Shield is active.
So the total Dodge for each case I think is:
Combat-Magic Off: 10+10+20+10+15 = 65%
Combat-Magic On: Above+25=90%
So w/CM off, I could run into a bunch of Darkspawn but I'd be taking a few hits although w/50+ armor rating, it wasn't immediately alarming but in 10-15 seconds, it could be. So definitely not "god-like".
W/CM on, it was ridiculous. I could sit there & basically do nothing, even w/golems attacking me, archers, children grubs, & emissary spells (I had 61% spell resistance too). Anyhow, I could beat them w/my fists & just go get a cup of coffee while the auto-attack work, use my staff only, use spells, use sword, etc.... Definitely "god-like". It also resisted shield bash, shield overpower, etc.... It didn't seem to resist the knockdown of the children grub attacks but there wasn't much, if any damage, just me sitting on the ground waiting to get up.
So in my experience, @90% dodge w/good armor rating (if you actually use real armor, you can get 70+), it's definitely "god-like" although I haven't tested the final boss (the Mother) yet which is the real test. However, you can get a pretty high rating if you use the Voice of the Velvet (+25%) w/Partha (+5%) & put 3 evasion runes in Golem Shell Armor (+15%). If you did this & kept the rest the same, that would give +125% dodge (along with about 70 armor rating, nice!).
As compared to Defense, I've had 150-170 defense & it's pretty solid too although I think it gets hit more often in general. Overall, I prefer the dodge approach simply from a playstyle consideration as I can outfit my mage mostly like a mage (Cailan's Greaves excepted) & then just use Glyph of Warding & Herioc Defense to boost defense.
I think either approach works (+90% dodge) or very high defense (150+) w/o much trouble although my preference is for the dodge (playstyle + slight edge, per the above test scenario).
This was all done on an Xbox 360.
thanks & best regards,
Pedal2Metal
Modifié par pedal2metal, 06 août 2010 - 12:02 .
#28
Posté 20 août 2010 - 03:10
Elhanan
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Thanks to those that added to this thread!
Dodge does indeed to seem to be a key factor against some Bosses that are far over your defense rating. I just completed the Golem DLC with my starting 25th AW/SH/Battlemage after a few days of frustration by switching out Felons Coat and Cailans chestpiece for the new Lil Song DLC w/15% Dodge. This plus the other Dodge pieces advised (minus the FE Cowl), with some better luck allowed me to detonate the Harvester with VWB still active; a satisfying result!
Dodge does indeed to seem to be a key factor against some Bosses that are far over your defense rating. I just completed the Golem DLC with my starting 25th AW/SH/Battlemage after a few days of frustration by switching out Felons Coat and Cailans chestpiece for the new Lil Song DLC w/15% Dodge. This plus the other Dodge pieces advised (minus the FE Cowl), with some better luck allowed me to detonate the Harvester with VWB still active; a satisfying result!
#29
Posté 22 août 2010 - 10:26
jwalker
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I've just finished Leliana's Song and now I have a 22th melee rogue starting Awakening.
What's the bottom line ? Should I toss away Felons coat and stick with the accent chick's armor ? It seems complicated fully understand how this works...
What's the bottom line ? Should I toss away Felons coat and stick with the accent chick's armor ? It seems complicated fully understand how this works...
#30
Posté 23 août 2010 - 02:34
Parrk
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This is a great thread.
I would like to suggest that which of the two you prefer should also take into account your normal positioning. If you are a mage then you may prefer dodge because of the infrequency with which you are attacked in melee. Melee fighters on the other hand would most frequently benefit more from defense because it increases physical resist which is (arguably) more likely to keep you alive than dodge or parry. I think you'll find that you can take a few melee swings easily, but what is more difficult to handle are stun-type status effects which (afaik) are "spells" and aoe in nature.
These things rely on physical resist exclusively.
The wiki has an eye-opening page on those effects which are resisted based on phys-res score. Many effects that you might think are mental-res based are in fact phys-res-based.
The tank would want to stack phys-res becuase high armor directly counters melee damae as well, as dows blocking. The tank cannot block while stunned though (although blocking is a status in this game rather than an actual roll-based mechanic, so I may be quite wrong).
I would like to suggest that which of the two you prefer should also take into account your normal positioning. If you are a mage then you may prefer dodge because of the infrequency with which you are attacked in melee. Melee fighters on the other hand would most frequently benefit more from defense because it increases physical resist which is (arguably) more likely to keep you alive than dodge or parry. I think you'll find that you can take a few melee swings easily, but what is more difficult to handle are stun-type status effects which (afaik) are "spells" and aoe in nature.
These things rely on physical resist exclusively.
The wiki has an eye-opening page on those effects which are resisted based on phys-res score. Many effects that you might think are mental-res based are in fact phys-res-based.
The tank would want to stack phys-res becuase high armor directly counters melee damae as well, as dows blocking. The tank cannot block while stunned though (although blocking is a status in this game rather than an actual roll-based mechanic, so I may be quite wrong).
#31
Posté 24 août 2010 - 05:01
jwalker
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Silly me, hoping for a yes or no answer...
I've seen my rogue blocking an attack quite often (using his daggers), sometimes even arrows. What's that ? His defense score showing its worth ? Can't say the same about dodging attacks, far less common actually. At least, noticeable by me.
Another question (I have many): when the warden blocks, his own attack gets interrupted, but when he dodges it doesn't. Is that how it works ? Or am I imagining things ?
BTW, Nice wiki article indeed....
I've seen my rogue blocking an attack quite often (using his daggers), sometimes even arrows. What's that ? His defense score showing its worth ? Can't say the same about dodging attacks, far less common actually. At least, noticeable by me.
Another question (I have many): when the warden blocks, his own attack gets interrupted, but when he dodges it doesn't. Is that how it works ? Or am I imagining things ?
BTW, Nice wiki article indeed....
Modifié par jwalker, 24 août 2010 - 05:01 .
#32
Posté 24 août 2010 - 05:43
Mouse That Roared
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jwalker wrote...
Silly me, hoping for a yes or no answer...
I've seen my rogue blocking an attack quite often (using his daggers), sometimes even arrows. What's that ? His defense score showing its worth ? Can't say the same about dodging attacks, far less common actually. At least, noticeable by me.
Another question (I have many): when the warden blocks, his own attack gets interrupted, but when he dodges it doesn't. Is that how it works ? Or am I imagining things ?
BTW, Nice wiki article indeed....
My guess is that your rogue invested in evasion. As mentioned above, evasion has a block animation associated with it that is not associated with dodge or defense, as far as I know/can tell.
