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[Sir Buliwyf]

So the expansion is coming, and while I know I can start a new character, I would really like to continue with Buliwyf. However he currently lies dead on the battlefield having made the ultimate sacrifice.

Sleeping with Morrigan - Not an option.
Sending Alistair to sleep with Morrigan - Not an option.
Sending Alistair to die - Not an option.

*I'm a good guy, I don't like to do bad things!!!*

Having Loghain redeem himself by killing the dragon - Acceptable.
Having Alistair (my best buddy) leave me because he hates Loghain being alive, if only for a few hours- Not an option. (Also he's my main tank!)

Am I screwed? Can I be a good guy AND survive for the expansion?
Is there a way to send Loghain to kill the dragon without losing Alistair?

*frustrated*

[AnniLau]

If you want to live and keep Alistair, one of you has to do the Ritual.

Consider it practical, instead of 'bad.'

Modifié par AnniLau, 12 février 2010 - 06:47 .

[marbatico]

couldnt you still play with that char in the expansion? i mean, there is also an epilouge for the chars that make the ultimate sacrifice.

[Sir Buliwyf]

Well, he's dead, I'm not sure what else you can do beyond that.. Don't fancy playing as a zombie..



it's looking like I have no option Guess I'll play as my younger brother then or figure some workaround.

[SirOccam]

I'm not so sure the "ritual" really is as evil as it might initially come across. When it was first presented to me, I was aghast...I thought of it as basically taking this evil thing and subjecting some helpless baby to it. I refused, and made the sacrifice.

When a couple of things made me regret my decision (wanting to play my character again in the expansion and Leliana's epilogue), I went back and listened a little more closely. It's not some dark, twisted thing you're putting into the child...it's the spirit of the old god *before* it was tainted. The way Morrigan puts it, you're "preserving" this relic of the past.

Of course, whether you believe Morrigan or not is another matter, as it's certainly not outside the realm of possibility that she could be lying. Your character might not want to do it if romancing Leliana or Zevran either, but again that's another matter.

I can't say for sure *what* it is, though, and that's part of the charm of the series. You do what you do and then you find out what what you did did.  Another change I made when re-playing was to romance Morrigan instead of Leliana (which was my original intent, but then...well long story), and suffice it to say that my character chose to risk it.

Modifié par SirOccam, 12 février 2010 - 07:13 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

AnniLau wrote...

If you want to live and keep Alistair, one of you has to do the Ritual.

The good option there is to do the ritual and not tell Alistair about it.

[Creature 1]

SirOccam wrote...
Your character might not want to do it if romancing Leliana or Zevran either, but again that's another matter.

I don't know about Leliana but Zev would certainly tell you to go for it if it would save your life. 

[Thermorium]

Morrigan is just going to use the baby like flemeth used her children: possess them and become some superentity

[AnniLau]

Oh, and the cake is a lie.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Creature 1 wrote...

SirOccam wrote...
Your character might not want to do it if romancing Leliana or Zevran either, but again that's another matter.

I don't know about Leliana but Zev would certainly tell you to go for it if it would save your life. 

Lel's still willing to be your girl on the side if you marry Alistair or Anora, so I suspect she'd support the dark ritual idae, too.

[Creature 1]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

SirOccam wrote...
Your character might not want to do it if romancing Leliana or Zevran either, but again that's another matter.

I don't know about Leliana but Zev would certainly tell you to go for it if it would save your life. 

Lel's still willing to be your girl on the side if you marry Alistair or Anora, so I suspect she'd support the dark ritual idae, too.

She might have theological concerns. 

[Sir Buliwyf]

My thoughts exactly. I do not trust Morrigan to do anything but bad things with the spirit of the old god. Sleeping with her to give her some uber baby is just wrong. I also didn't even do her side quest as my options were... be manipulated by Flemeth OR be manipulated by Morrigan. I left them to their own problem. The world has bigger problems than their mother/daughter spat.

I really wish there was a way to calm Alistair down by telling him we'll let the dragon kill him instead of my sword.. :/
Not just because it would be convenient, but the story of redemption is one that really appeals to me.

Leliana was my romance also, I'd never betray that.

Modifié par Sir Buliwyf, 12 février 2010 - 07:16 .

[errant_knight]

Sir Buliwyf wrote...

My thoughts exactly. I do not trust Morrigan to do anything but bad things with the spirit of the old god. Sleeping with her to give her some uber baby is just wrong. I also didn't even do her side quest as my options were... be manipulated by Flemeth OR be manipulated by Morrigan. I left them to their own problem. The world has bigger problems than their mother/daughter spat.

I really wish there was a way to calm Alistair down by telling him we'll let the dragon kill him instead of my sword.. :/
Not just because it would be convenient, but the story of redemption is one that really appeals to me.

Leliana was my romance also, I'd never betray that.

I get where you are with this. My PC was as good as is possible in Thedas, but I still went with the ritual. I bleieved Morrigan that she wouldn't mistreat the child, and would probably treat it in a way that was kinder than Flemeth treated her. Not saying it wouldn't be tough love, but I don't think she'd smash it's gold mirror.

It also seemed possible that she was right about saving the soul of the untainted old god. This cycle of 'corrupt the old god, wave it in front of the wardens, watch them kill it' kind of smells funny. There's something a little hinky about all this.

Deciding factor for my PC, Alistair might die, and Anora might become queen as a result. Those things together made her ask Alistair to do the ritual. It wasn't comfortable for, oh, so many reasons, but it was doable.

Modifié par errant_knight, 12 février 2010 - 07:30 .

[Eudaemonium]

errant_knight wrote...

I get where you are with this. My PC was as good as is possible in Thedas, but I still went with the ritual. I bleieved Morrigan that she wouldn't mistreat the child, and would probably treat it in a way that was kinder than Flemeth treated her. Not saying it wouldn't be tough love, but I don't think she'd smash it's gold mirror.

It also seemed possible that she was right about saving the soul of the untainted old god. This cycle of 'corrupt the old god, wave it in front of the wardens, watch them kill it' kind of smells funny. There's something a little hinky about all this.

Deciding factor for my PC, Alistair might die, and Anora might become queen as a result. Those things together made her ask Alistair to do the ritual. It wasn't comfortable for, oh, so many reasons, but it was doable.

I nearly always (get Alistair to) do the ritual. I dunno, I think in a way it might be easier for some female characters - I feel that Morrigan is somehow more genuine with them. Not completely genuine, obviously. IAnd as I'm curious, did you tell Alistair the truth about the god baby or just tell him to do it? I nearly always tell him the truth, but last time I didn't and the dialogue was slightly amusing (Alistair asking Morrigan to knock him out first).

[guytza]

Yeah....it does seem a little hinky when you put it that way Errant....



As for the OP. You do have some options.



1. Feed the secret companion to the archdemon. You are giving him a chance to redeem himself (see Redeemer Achievement right?) Sure Alistair throws a hissy fit but you're friends, he'll get over it. Especially once he finds out the whole story behind the GW-Archdemon connection and the fact that your choice ultimately saved both your lives. Fates a funny thing like that and as a Grey Warden himself he should be informed about the connection.



2. Moment of weakness. You've just walked out of Riordans meeting and your head is spinning like a top. First you get nightmares, then you found out you're plugged into the darkspawn, next you were told you get to die in 30 years while you slowly go crazy from the taint, and NOW they tell you that to kill the archdemon you may have to give up your life directly! Duncan never mentioned this, even to Alistair who had known him for a good time longer than you did. So there you are, your mind running at a million miles an hour. You open your door and...Morrigan? What is she doing here? A deal....to save my friend, myself, my country.....and in that moment of weakness you take the deal. Regret it later if you wish, but ultimately you're only human.





Does that help?

[blademaster7]

I'm starting a new game tonight. Planning on convincing Alistair(hardened) to marry Anora and letting Loghain die to the Archdemon. It's convenient for everyone, except Morrigan of course.

I'll probably do a DW warrior, need to decide on gender and origin though

[SusanStoHelit]

I'm with Errant on this one - I'm completely unconvinced that the Ritual is bad. I think it should be called the Grey Ritual instead.

Nevertheless, if you just can't or won't do it - make sure you harden Alistair and make him king - with or without Anora. Use the secret companion as the Sacrifice. Alistair will leave your party - but you'll have a chance to talk to him as king, and he'll tell you he's not so angry anymore. In other words, he gets over it. If you don't harden him and make him king, there'll be a bad outcome.

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 12 février 2010 - 08:24 .

[Alandros]

"Good guys" have to make tough choices, you don't always get a fairy tale ending and the good guy has to choose the lesser of evils, such is the way it is.  

I'd also agree that my character, my good one, didn't think the ritual was bad.  Preserving an untainted old God, the potential God of Beauty, to my character the Chantry is the bad and closest to evil and this is preserving the good.  Losing Morrigan, well that was the bad part though her act to my character was not considered bad (even if it had a potential "bad" risk to it if Morrigan abused the power).

Modifié par Alandros, 12 février 2010 - 08:28 .

[Barbarossa2010]

blademaster7 wrote...

I'm starting a new game tonight. Planning on convincing Alistair(hardened) to marry Anora and letting Loghain die to the Archdemon. It's convenient for everyone, except Morrigan of course.

I'll probably do a DW warrior, need to decide on gender and origin though

Yeah, that's a good course.  Pretty much what I did on the last playthrough, but sacrificed myself and let Loghain redeem himself the hardway.  A hardened Alistair (even if you lose him to recruit Loghain) married to Anora is the best possible outcome for that match imo.

New playthrough, I don't know what I'm going to do yet, but Shield warrior will probably give way to DW.  I might need to let Loghain take one for the team on this one, so I don't feel like such a s#!+head about Leliana, (but that was a cool ending though), and ending one happy with her.

[Sir Buliwyf]

Thanks all for your thoughts, such dilemma :/ the closest option is to make Alistair king, though I have no idea about hardening him. Something to do with his sister?

Then letting former hero Loghain redeem himself somewhat.. but.... it's not good enough for me, so sadly, in the world of Thedas, Buliwyf shall remain dead Younger brother Jonovah in the expac it is then.



Also, whether the act of saving the old god's spirit is good or bad or whatever, Morrigan will only abuse the power it gives her and it will not turn out for the best.

[Barbarossa2010]

Sir Buliwyf wrote...

Thanks all for your thoughts, such dilemma :/ the closest option is to make Alistair king, though I have no idea about hardening him. Something to do with his sister?
Then letting former hero Loghain redeem himself somewhat.. but.... it's not good enough for me, so sadly, in the world of Thedas, Buliwyf shall remain dead Younger brother Jonovah in the expac it is then.

Also, whether the act of saving the old god's spirit is good or bad or whatever, Morrigan will only abuse the power it gives her and it will not turn out for the best.

In the talk after meeting Goldanna, tell him most people are out for themselves.  You'll talk to him later and he will tell you were right about that, and confirm (in essence) that you want him to be hardened.

I also have a sacrificial Warden who happens to be my favorite character.  He had the ending of endings.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 12 février 2010 - 09:00 .

[Sir Buliwyf]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Sir Buliwyf wrote...

Thanks all for your thoughts, such dilemma :/ the closest option is to make Alistair king, though I have no idea about hardening him. Something to do with his sister?
Then letting former hero Loghain redeem himself somewhat.. but.... it's not good enough for me, so sadly, in the world of Thedas, Buliwyf shall remain dead Younger brother Jonovah in the expac it is then.

Also, whether the act of saving the old god's spirit is good or bad or whatever, Morrigan will only abuse the power it gives her and it will not turn out for the best.

In the talk afterward, tell him most people are out for themselves.  You'll talk to him later and he will tell you were right about that and confirm (in essence) that you want him to be hardened.

I played the game back at release, I have no idea what i said at the time i played it so not sure if i said the right things needed. I'd have to play an identical playthrough again just to get to that point. hehe

[SusanStoHelit]

To harden Alistair, when you do his personal quest, you meet *shudders* Goldanna. When you get outside he'll talk to you about her - and you choose the response "everyone is out for themselves". Which is a ghastly, out of character response for a 'good guy', but we're stuck with it. Back at camp, it is ameliorated though, when Alistair talks to you as if you'd said something like "you should stick up for yourself more". Then you can just tell him he needs to stop being pushed around, that kind of thing.



Whatever Morrigan's intentions (and we don't know what they are, you're making assumptions), I personally think saving the god of beauty will turn out to be a good thing. Of course, I could be wrong. But I always play 'good' characters - or neutral ones - and the ritual is a no brainer for me.



And allowing Loghain to redeem himself is, in my view, bad.

[Sir Buliwyf]

I'm not sure how letting Loghain die at the dragon and saving my life doing so is worse than him dieing at the tip of my sword and then me dieing at the dragon. Whether he is "fully" redeemed is of course a point for debate, and i would say that is is not enough, but something is better than nothing..