1201 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecael]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Damn so she survives loyal or not? Even on Insanity? Well that's about as good as it can get I guess unless Kasumi can die in her own loyalty mission after beating the game like zaeed can....if a non loyal kasumi escorts the hostages mordin still won't make it out of the hold the line group with garrus and morinth will he? At least I can get that big dramatic run with shep and miranda duo at the end...(pretty ****ing good ending though I gotta say it's probably the most dramatic combination)  Thanks for your help you have given me a shot at a PERFECT MIDDLE OF THE ROAD playthrough that hits as MANY dramatic notes both p- AND r-  thank you very much I now know what to do for my "generic shepard"  

Probably not. You have to realize that Garrus is one of the strongest, but Mordin is still the weakest. I wouldn't ever trust putting him on defense unless I wanted him to die.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Haven't some people said they've made it through with mordin alive though? Might just be enough compensation from garrus AND morinth with all 3 of them being loyal to make it through. Also didn't you say that having one of your boss squadmates die has an effect on the hold the line squad? (if that one worked it would be pretty neat since...don't want to overuse the word council but it'd show how those 3 races work well together)

Edit: Although I just realised that if you took kasumi out of the swarm segment then it'd probably be another headache trying to find who wouldn't get dragged instead of grunt...(Morinth maybe?)


god damn you bioware and making the most fun to mess with sequence ever!!!

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 17 mars 2010 - 04:49 .

[Ecael]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Haven't some people said they've made it through with mordin alive though? Might just be enough compensation from garrus AND morinth with all 3 of them being loyal to make it through. Also didn't you say that having one of your boss squadmates die has an effect on the hold the line squad? (if that one worked it would be pretty neat since...don't want to overuse the word council but it'd show how those 3 races work well together)

Edit: Although I just realised that if you took kasumi out of the swarm segment then it'd probably be another headache trying to find who wouldn't get dragged instead of grunt...(Morinth maybe?)


god damn you bioware and making the most fun to mess with sequence ever!!!

Yes, the hold the line can be influenced by who dies at the final boss, but it's most likely due to the game wanting you to survive with at least two squadmates or die with none.

A lot of people have Mordin survive holding the line - the very first time I played Mass Effect 2 that's what I did. However, I had 7 squadmates holding the line - including Grunt, Garrus and Zaeed - and all loyal, so I doubt that Mordin had any chance of dying at that point.

Modifié par Ecael, 17 mars 2010 - 05:12 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

heh yeah.  when you have so many guys it doesn't really matter if mordin's there or not.

there is this little tidbit though:

Here are some examples for the group holding the line:
Loyal Mordin by himself: He can't hold the line by himself. He dies.
Non-loyal Grunt by himself: Grunt lives. He hunkers down and gets the job done, and doesn't have to worry about helping any one else.
Loyal Mordin and non-Loyal Grunt: Grunt dies, but Mordin lives. Grunt is able to hold the line but goofs up helping Mordin... he was just too aggressive without his right of passage.
Loyal Mordin and Loyal Grunt: They both live.

Like the paragon/renegade system, perhapes this situation too scales itself.  Kasumi, a fellow squishie, survived said situation because garrus and morinth could pick up the slack.  There's a small chance that mordin might make it through too under those conditions with 3 loyal soldiers.  Perhapes the weak spot comes when the group gets too big without being "completely full".  Like 4-6 members can introduce enough squishies to bring down the entire average and get higher priority squishies chopped off the top first.  Since jack, tali, and kasumi would be dead, and miranda would be somewhere else, mordin might be able to pull through a rare situation like that.

If that works then the only question is if grunt will still get pulled by the swarms if morinth, garrus, mordin, or zaeed are with him...although since zaeed is unloyal in this run it probably wouldn't be a good idea to send him with grunt.  Would be nice if it worked...

Of coarse if they make it so kasumi's mission is 100% garunteed to get loyalty like most of them are then that kinda throws a wrench in the whole thing. 


Real good set though.  REAL good set.  thanks alot for your help dude. 

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 17 mars 2010 - 08:02 .

[Ecael]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

heh yeah.  when you have so many guys it doesn't really matter if mordin's there or not.

there is this little tidbit though:

Here are some examples for the group holding the line:
Loyal Mordin by himself: He can't hold the line by himself. He dies.
Non-loyal Grunt by himself: Grunt lives. He hunkers down and gets the job done, and doesn't have to worry about helping any one else.
Loyal Mordin and non-Loyal Grunt: Grunt dies, but Mordin lives. Grunt is able to hold the line but goofs up helping Mordin... he was just too aggressive without his right of passage.
Loyal Mordin and Loyal Grunt: They both live.

Grunt is awesome. He can survive holding the line by himself, even when non-loyal and even as the only squadmate surviving. However, he will disappear when Shepard tries to jump onto the Normandy, since the game will kill Shepard if only one squadmate survives.

Like the paragon/renegade system, perhapes this situation too scales itself.  Kasumi, a fellow squishie, survived said situation because garrus and morinth could pick up the slack.  There's a small chance that mordin might make it through too under those conditions with 3 loyal soldiers.  Perhapes the weak spot comes when the group gets too big without being "completely full".  Like 4-6 members can introduce enough squishies to bring down the entire average and get higher priority squishies chopped off the top first.  Since jack, tali, and kasumi would be dead, and miranda would be somewhere else, mordin might be able to pull through a rare situation like that.

If that works then the only question is if grunt will still get pulled by the swarms if morinth, garrus, mordin, or zaeed are with him...although since zaeed is unloyal in this run it probably wouldn't be a good idea to send him with grunt.  Would be nice if it worked...

Essentially it comes down to having an optimum number of loyals (and which loyals those are) holding the line for everyone to survive. If you saved everyone up until then, it's very hard to get someone killed holding the line (although making Zaeed the escort and bringing Grunt and Garrus to the final boss might kill Mordin).

Modifié par Ecael, 17 mars 2010 - 10:51 .

[DXLR8R]

Wow, that's some work you put in to get that done.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Yeah should be cool to play it when Kasumi comes out and I can do this playthrough. I'm pretty happy with those 4 survivors since they practically "represent" the galaxy...getting thane through a non upgraded ship is pretty impossible, but he's got that disease so he probably wouldn't have a major role in mass 3 anyways. Miranda and Garrus defenitely seem like they'd have the biggest impact on 3. Hell the coming romantic conflict is probably going to be most fitting/amusing with Ashley/Miranda (they're both such big hot heads and more likely to get into a fight then say....kaiden/thane or liara/garrus).  And maybe Garrus will FINALLY gain spectre status?  (Or is that already covered in a potential import issue I didn't experience?)

In all honesty losing the crewmembers that I did (even tali and legion) might not have a super big impact on 3 because most of the plot surrounding them is stuff that you interact with in their loyalty missions, figuring setting up the geth/quarian war. A Krogan dieing in battle is a fine way to go, it's what they live for. Jacob and Jack might not have as large an impact on 3 as miranda, and the dlc characters probably won't have a super large impact on the next game. Mordin's plot might go somewhere interesting if he's not a squadie in the next game...

Of coarse this is all subjective since we don't know what they're going to do in mass effect 3. For all we know none of these 12 are coming back as squadmates in 3 and are instead going to sort of be like how wrex and your old crew were in 1. I wouldn't put it past them to give you liara and kaiden/ash back. Maybe for characters that can die that they want to bring back you'll instead get a new character that sort of fulfills those roles but is still different (like the way wrex is replaced if he's dead, or how mordin and samara are in 2) It's interesting to mess with for sure and I can't wait to see where the characters go in 3 just so we can figure out an even more optimal dramatic suicide mission (Although I think i've nearly hit the nail on the head here...)


Fun yeah, can't wait till April so I can actually fully try this out....If mordin IS able to survive with Garrus and Morinth then I'm thinking of playing with switching Kasumi and Zaeed arround a little (Kasumi dies in the fall, Zaeed dies escorting the survivors....although won't he just get them all killed too if he's unloyal?  Or do they only get killed if you don't send anyone with them?)

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 18 mars 2010 - 02:55 .

[Ecael]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Yeah should be cool to play it when Kasumi comes out and I can do this playthrough. I'm pretty happy with those 4 survivors since they practically "represent" the galaxy...getting thane through a non upgraded ship is pretty impossible, but he's got that disease so he probably wouldn't have a major role in mass 3 anyways.

You can skip recruiting Thane until after the final mission and Garrus will die from the lack of upgrades.

Fun yeah, can't wait till April so I can actually fully try this out....If mordin IS able to survive with Garrus and Morinth then I'm thinking of playing with switching Kasumi and Zaeed arround a little (Kasumi dies in the fall, Zaeed dies escorting the survivors....although won't he just get them all killed too if he's unloyal?  Or do they only get killed if you don't send anyone with them?)

The crew only gets killed if you don't send anyone. If you send someone and she/he is unloyal, then only the squadmate dies.

[Koborover]

This thread is great, I want to use it to create a tragic Paragon male Shepard who goes into ME3 with painful memories of many companions dying under his command despite his best intentions.

I'm thinking a lonesome kind of Shepard who didn't romance anyone in ME1 and ME2 because he feels it jeopardizes his mission. Or maybe he did romance in ME2, but this LI died during the suicide mission.

Currently I'm seeing a loyal Zaeed and a loyal but non-romanced Tali as the two survivors for this Shepard, how would I go about ensuring their survival?

Modifié par Koborover, 20 mars 2010 - 02:09 .

[Ecael]

Koborover wrote...

This thread is great, I want to use it to create a tragic Paragon male Shepard who goes into ME3 with painful memories of many companions dying under his command despite his best intentions.

I'm thinking a lonesome kind of Shepard who didn't romance anyone in ME1 and ME2 because he feels it jeopardizes his mission. Or maybe he did romance in ME2, but this LI died during the suicide mission.

Currently I'm seeing a loyal Zaeed and a loyal but non-romanced Tali as the two survivors for this Shepard, how would I go about ensuring their survival?

Give me a couple of minutes or so -- shouldn't be too hard, I think.

Two questions:

1. Do you want the crew to survive?

2. Are you including Kasumi in your playthrough?

[Koborover]

Ecael wrote...

Two questions:

1. Do you want the crew to survive?

2. Are you including Kasumi in your playthrough?

More deaths mean more tragedy, so a goo-ified crew and a dying Kasumi would be better.

Like I said this Shep has the best intentions, but he just happens to make awkward calls when it comes to assessing mission and upgrade priorities.

Modifié par Koborover, 20 mars 2010 - 03:17 .

[Ecael]

Koborover wrote...

More deaths mean more tragedy, so a goo-ified crew and a dying Kasumi would be better.

This one was a little tougher than I thought. All 12 squadmates going into the final mission and no escort used:

All 12 loyalty missions completed. Normal recruitment mission order.

-----------------
Final Squadmates: Zaeed and Tali
-----------------

Loyals: Jacob, Grunt, Garrus, Mordin, Thane, Kasumi, Jack, Zaeed, Tali
Non-loyals: Miranda, Legion, Samara
Normandy Upgrades: None
Chakwas & Crew: DEAD

Before the Omega-4 Relay
-Side with Jack on the Miranda/Jack fight
-Side with Tali on the Legion/Tali fight
-Mess up Samara's loyalty by scaring away Morinth once you meet her
-Bring Tali and Legion to fight the Oculus (Kasumi should die)

Assignments
Vents - Jacob (dies)
Fire Team Leader - Any
Biotic - Non-loyal Samara (bring Miranda and Garrus, Garrus should die)
Second Fire Team Leader - Grunt (dies)
Final boss squadmates - Legion and Zaeed (Legion dies)
Distraction Team - Tali, Mordin, Miranda, Samara (All but Tali die)

Deaths, before landing
Jack - No Armor Upgrade, laser'd
Kasumi - No Shield Upgrade, incinerated
Thane - No Weapon upgrade, impaled

Deaths, after landing
Jacob - Died by rocket to face
Garrus - Died by seeker swarm
Grunt - Died while closing second door
Mordin - Died holding the line
Miranda - Died holding the line
Samara - Died holding the line
Legion - Died at final boss

-----------------
Final Squadmates: Zaeed and Tali
-----------------

EDIT: Need to recheck this, one second...

Modifié par Ecael, 20 mars 2010 - 03:34 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Here's something...does Morinth have a different survival rate than Samara? (I'm still a ways off from being able to test if Mordin, Morinth, and Garrus will be able to hold the line or not)

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 20 mars 2010 - 11:33 .

[Ecael]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Here's something...does Morinth have a different survival rate than Samara? (I'm still a ways off from being able to test if Mordin, Morinth, and Garrus will be able to hold the line or not)

I doubt it. They seem to be equally skilled biotics, so BioWare wouldn't change their rank in holding the line.

[Koborover]

Thanks for the configuration, I'll figure out other ones myself if I change my mind about the survivors.

Maybe this tragic Paragon view towards the worst possible playthrough (as opposed to the careless Renegade view) can spark extra interest in this thread.

Modifié par Koborover, 21 mars 2010 - 09:38 .

[CipherNine]

Zaeed-"Died in a fire"



Ha.

[Ecael]

Koborover wrote...

Thanks for the configuration, I'll figure out other ones myself if I change my mind about the survivors.

Maybe this tragic Paragon view towards the worst possible playthrough (as opposed to the careless Renegade view) can spark extra interest in this thread.

Be careful though, I have a feeling that Mordin won't die since he's loyal.

Going to be difficult to do some configurations with Zaeed and Kasumi in it.

[Shanra]

Ecael wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Lonely_Fat_Guy wrote...

how do i end up with only humans? prefered all loyal

that's racist 
(lol)

Shanra asked the same thing on Page 8:
http://social.biowar...65725/8#1386191

If you want to include Kasumi, just have her loyal and with the hold the line team.

Hah, I guess I'm not the only one to want to do this.  I haven't ever gotten this tested. I took a break from the game with FFXIII coming out. And I have God of War III sitting there waiting for my attention.  Though I may already put that on pause to play the new DLC.

Whenever I do get a confirmed All Human playthrough, I'll post up if everything worked as it should.

Actually, I may wait until Kasumi comes out.  Well, at least before I finish the playthrough that will have all humans.

[FlyinElk212]

Technically, wouldn't the worst possible playthrough (in terms of surviving squadmates) be Zaeed and Morinth living in the end, with you killing off Zaeed in his loyalty mission after the suicide mission?

I haven't checked to see if this is possible (since you'll have a non-loyal Zaeed due to not doing the loyalty mission until then), but if it is, I'd think a Shepard + Morinth Normandy crew would certainly be the worst possible playthrough.

[lastpawn]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Technically, wouldn't the worst possible playthrough (in terms of surviving squadmates) be Zaeed and Morinth living in the end, with you killing off Zaeed in his loyalty mission after the suicide mission?
I haven't checked to see if this is possible (since you'll have a non-loyal Zaeed due to not doing the loyalty mission until then), but if it is, I'd think a Shepard + Morinth Normandy crew would certainly be the worst possible playthrough.

If he saved Zaeed he wouldn't be able to subtitle the thread "KASUMING DIRECT CONTROL," though...

Modifié par lastpawn, 22 mars 2010 - 12:13 .

[FlyinElk212]

lastpawn wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Technically, wouldn't the worst possible playthrough (in terms of surviving squadmates) be Zaeed and Morinth living in the end, with you killing off Zaeed in his loyalty mission after the suicide mission?
I haven't checked to see if this is possible (since you'll have a non-loyal Zaeed due to not doing the loyalty mission until then), but if it is, I'd think a Shepard + Morinth Normandy crew would certainly be the worst possible playthrough.

If he saved Zaeed he wouldn't be able to subtitle the thread "KASUMING DIRECT CONTROL," though...

LOL! Truth.

Still, even without that hilarious wordplay, having 2 squaddies live while there may be a potential way for only 1 to live doesn't fit the title of this thread. I'm currently trying to work out a scenario where an unloyal Zaeed and Loyal Morinth survive the suicide mish.

Would it be possible if, for the final leg, you take a loyal Morinth and another unloyal, but leave behind an unloyal Zaeed, unloyal Tali, unloyal Jack, and unloyal Miranda?

[-Skorpious-]

This isn't the worst playthrough to carry into ME:3, but I am about ready to import my human supremacist Engineer. My goal with this playthrough is save every human character (including the crew/Kasumi), with as many alien casualties as possible.



Any help would be appreciated.

[ObserverStatus]

Mordin dies even if he's loyal if you don't upgrade his omnitool.

[Ecael]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Technically, wouldn't the worst possible playthrough (in terms of surviving squadmates) be Zaeed and Morinth living in the end, with you killing off Zaeed in his loyalty mission after the suicide mission?
I haven't checked to see if this is possible (since you'll have a non-loyal Zaeed due to not doing the loyalty mission until then), but if it is, I'd think a Shepard + Morinth Normandy crew would certainly be the worst possible playthrough.

You lose the option to kill Zaeed if you have 2 squadmates remaining (with Zaeed one of them). If you have 3 squadmates or more, the option is there.

Mordin dies even if he's loyal if you don't upgrade his omnitool.

This is incorrect. Mordin will die as a loyal hold the line member if almost everyone else is loyal, but the hold the line team is weak. The game will start killing off non-loyal hold the line members first. If there are none (or only one), Mordin is the first or second to die.

Modifié par Ecael, 22 mars 2010 - 09:55 .

[FlyinElk212]

Ecael wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Technically, wouldn't the worst possible playthrough (in terms of surviving squadmates) be Zaeed and Morinth living in the end, with you killing off Zaeed in his loyalty mission after the suicide mission?
I haven't checked to see if this is possible (since you'll have a non-loyal Zaeed due to not doing the loyalty mission until then), but if it is, I'd think a Shepard + Morinth Normandy crew would certainly be the worst possible playthrough.

You lose the option to kill Zaeed if you have 2 squadmates remaining (with Zaeed one of them). If you have 3 squadmates or more, the option is there.

Seriously? Mleh. I'd say that makes sense if the game just constantly wanted you to have two members on your squad minimum. But there are multiple instances where you can play with just 1 other crewmember (Kasumi hack and just Jacob at the beginning). I don't doubt you though, cuz I'm sure you've tried it in the past and have been disappointed...

Ah well. Back to figuring out some of your other projects (everyone dies, even Morinth is something I'm gonna take a look at shortly).