1201 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecael]

cachx wrote...

So, there is no way of figuring out this 'sometime'? I'll try killing Zaeed beforehand, to start the mission with 9 characters, and/or switching characters around, see if that makes a difference. (I think the culprit here is loyal Morinth tho, if everything else fails, I'll save edit to unloyal everyone but Tali&Garrus ).

I've seen it happen when people have too few squadmates going into the final areas (I think one mentioned that they had Mordin survive the shot to the stomach!). This is just a hypothesis, but it might work like this:

Situation 1: Loyal Miranda, 4 people left after swarm - F-Team lives
Situation 2: Non-loyal Miranda, 4 people left after swarm - F-Team dies
Situation 3: Non-loyal Miranda, 3 people left after swarm - F-Team lives

Situation 1 ensures your survival just for having Miranda loyal, Situation 2 helps you get your Shepard killed, Situation 3 ensures there are enough people so Shepard doesn't stand on the platform giving a speech to no one in front of her/him.

I guess the question is: Is it possible to get Shepard killed when Miranda is loyal?

Also, in case you didn't know, according to this the HtL priority list is (from weak to strong): Mordin - Tali - Kasumi - Jack - Miranda - Jacob - Garrus - Samara/Morinth - Legion - Thane - Zaeed - Grunt.

I do have a similar list that I posted up before two months ago:

http://social.biowar...5725/14#1684511

I'm surprised that it goes from Garrus to Samara/Morinth to Legion to Thane, though.

Also, I'm not sure if Jack can die from lack of weapons. I always thought Samara was after Grunt.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Ecael wrote...

cachx wrote...

[*]Set Morinth as Fire-Team leader, SHE SURVIVED [*]At the end Morinth + Miranda Held the Line, but both lived.
[/list]

Sometimes when there are only 4-5 people left and one of them gets seeker swarmed, the game will force the Second Fire Team leader to survive automatically.

Also, loyal Miranda is nearly invincible. She can only die if she holds the line by herself (which is prevented by the Second Fire Team auto-surviving sometimes).

To be honest I think cachx has hit the same glitch I hit a couple of months ago when I had Morinth in one of my Shep's squads.

The one issue you have cach as already explained is Miranda.

I did my playthrough pre-Kasumi and I didn't recruit Tali and had Grunt in lifepod. I did recruit Legion though (so to some extent he took Kasumi's place).

A loyal Miranda is pretty much unkillable. Especially with Morinth glitching things up. I bet if you were to put anyone in the door diversion spot they will live even if Morinth were to get swarmed and even with 3 other squadmates going into the 3rd stage already without the diversion leader in tow.

Hmm, that has got me thinking.

If you can do it without losing too much time, don't bother recruiting Zaeed (you can always kill him post-suicide mission anyway) and upgrade the cannon then do the following.

Armor - Jack
Shields - Kasumi
Vent - Jacob
Escort - Tali (1 squadmate safe back on board the ship with chakwas)
Diversion - Garrus
Biotic - Thane with squadmates Miranda and Morinth... Morinth will get swarmed
Final Battle - Thane and Garrus (Garrus will survive, Thane will die)
Door Defence - Miranda on her own should = dead

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 11 mai 2010 - 09:45 .

[cachx]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
To be honest I think cachx has hit the same glitch I hit a couple of months ago when I had Morinth in one of my Shep's squads.

The one issue you have cach as already explained is Miranda.

I did my playthrough pre-Kasumi and I didn't recruit Tali and had Grunt in lifepod. I did recruit Legion though (so to some extent he took Kasumi's place).

A loyal Miranda is pretty much unkillable. Especially with Morinth glitching things up. I bet if you were to put anyone in the door diversion spot they will live even if Morinth were to get swarmed and even with 3 other squadmates going into the 3rd stage already without the diversion leader in tow.

Hmm, that has got me thinking.

If you can do it without losing too much time, don't bother recruiting Zaeed (you can always kill him post-suicide mission anyway) and upgrade the cannon then do the following.

Armor - Jack
Shields - Kasumi
Vent - Jacob
Escort - Tali (1 squadmate safe back on board the ship with chakwas)
Diversion - Garrus
Biotic - Thane with squadmates Miranda and Morinth... Morinth will get swarmed
Final Battle - Thane and Garrus (Garrus will survive, Thane will die)
Door Defence - Miranda on her own should = dead

Actually, I thought of something similar,

No matter wich combination I tried, I couldn't get Morinth swarmed. So what I did was place fire team lead on Morinth, Mordin+Zaeed with me (Mordin gets swarmed) , and sent Tali with the escort. I thought that having Tali alive but away would trigger Morinth's death and I was right.
So at the end I left Miranda to hold the doors alone, while taking Zaeed + Garrus to the final battle, Zaeed dies after the final boss, but Miranda STILL LIVED .

Killing Zaeed and taking Thane in his place seems like something to try, and I'm not sure if Morinth glitches everything. Ulrich, you forgot about Mordin, but I'm thinking maybe unloyal Mordin gets Miranda killed at the door? another thing to try :innocent:

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

cachx wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
To be honest I think cachx has hit the same glitch I hit a couple of months ago when I had Morinth in one of my Shep's squads.

The one issue you have cach as already explained is Miranda.

I did my playthrough pre-Kasumi and I didn't recruit Tali and had Grunt in lifepod. I did recruit Legion though (so to some extent he took Kasumi's place).

A loyal Miranda is pretty much unkillable. Especially with Morinth glitching things up. I bet if you were to put anyone in the door diversion spot they will live even if Morinth were to get swarmed and even with 3 other squadmates going into the 3rd stage already without the diversion leader in tow.

Hmm, that has got me thinking.

If you can do it without losing too much time, don't bother recruiting Zaeed (you can always kill him post-suicide mission anyway) and upgrade the cannon then do the following.

Armor - Jack
Shields - Kasumi
Vent - Jacob
Escort - Tali (1 squadmate safe back on board the ship with chakwas)
Diversion - Garrus
Biotic - Thane with squadmates Miranda and Morinth... Morinth will get swarmed
Final Battle - Thane and Garrus (Garrus will survive, Thane will die)
Door Defence - Miranda on her own should = dead

Actually, I thought of something similar,

No matter wich combination I tried, I couldn't get Morinth swarmed. So what I did was place fire team lead on Morinth, Mordin+Zaeed with me (Mordin gets swarmed) , and sent Tali with the escort. I thought that having Tali alive but away would trigger Morinth's death and I was right.
So at the end I left Miranda to hold the doors alone, while taking Zaeed + Garrus to the final battle, Zaeed dies after the final boss, but Miranda STILL LIVED .

Killing Zaeed and taking Thane in his place seems like something to try, and I'm not sure if Morinth glitches everything. Ulrich, you forgot about Mordin, but I'm thinking maybe unloyal Mordin gets Miranda killed at the door? another thing to try :innocent:

Unloyal Mordin with loyal Miranda will end up with only Mordin's death. Miranda will survive.

Also Morinth WILL get swarmed if she is teamed up with Miranda and you use a poor biotic like Thane.

The above point is how I got this result below.

The above playthrough went like this...

Armor - Jack
Shield - Legion
Vents - Jacob
Escort - Zaeed
Diversion - Mordin (Lived due to Morinth glitch)
Biotic Swarmed - Morinth (Thane as biotic, Miranda as other squadmate)
Final Battle - Garrus and Thane (Garrus lived, Thane died)
Door Defence - Miranda and Mordin (Miranda lived, Mordin died)

In the initial attempt I had a loyal Thane, thankfully I'd left Garrus and Thane's loyalty quests to be done just before the abduction, used the fact both their quests are on the Citadel and you aren't transported back to the ship after each one to squeeze in 3 missions post-IFF before abduction;) so it was just a case of going to a save I'd made just before this and not bothering with Thane's mission.

I doubt that Mordin being unloyal will cause Miranda to die. Reason I say this is because whilst Miranda is in the squishy zone, she isn't in the same zone that Mordin, Tali, Jack and Kasumi are in. I know this because I've had a non loyal Miranda survive whilst paired up with just Tali and Mordin. I got that result on my first attempt at my Zaeed and Kasumi only survive playthrough. The only way I got Miranda killed in the end was to put Zaeed and Kasumi on door defence with Mordin whilst taking Miranda and Tali to the final battle where the 3 non-loyalists all died in their respective posts.

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 12 mai 2010 - 01:47 .

[Ecael]

If Miranda is loyal, her Plot Armor is going to have her survive if:

1. You sent a loyal escort back
2. You had one person of the two final boss squadmates survive
3. You left her to hold the line with someone else

In other words, if one other person is guaranteed to survive or someone is holding the line with loyal Miranda, her Plot Armor is going to keep her alive.

[cachx]

Ecael wrote...

If Miranda is loyal, her Plot Armor is going to have her survive if:

1. You sent a loyal escort back
2. You had one person of the two final boss squadmates survive
3. You left her to hold the line with someone else

In other words, if one other person is guaranteed to survive or someone is holding the line with loyal Miranda, her Plot Armor is going to keep her alive.

Sooooo... impossible to kill unless you plan to kill everybody? she already survived HtL alone, so I'm out of ideas. (tried the Mordin thng, of course it didn't work).

[Ecael]

cachx wrote...

Sooooo... impossible to kill unless you plan to kill everybody? she already survived HtL alone, so I'm out of ideas. (tried the Mordin thng, of course it didn't work).

Pretty much, as I don't have any ideas on how to kill her when loyal (and have Shepard live in the process).

[phatmarshi]

Ecael wrote...

Dabull1014 requested a 'Women only' playthrough in another thread, so I'm posting the playthrough I made here:

All 12 loyalty missions completed. Normal recruitment mission order.

-----------------
Final Squadmates: Kasumi, Jack, Miranda, Tali, Samara (Girl power!)
-----------------

Loyals: Jacob, Grunt, Garrus, Mordin, Kasumi, Thane, Jack, Legion, Miranda, Tali, Samara
Non-loyals: Zaeed
Normandy Upgrades: Silaris Heavy Ship Armor (Jack survives)
Chakwas & Crew: Dr. Chakwas survives?

Before the Omega-4 Relay
-Do Zaeed's loyalty, save the workers but don't Charm Zaeed's loyalty back
-You MUST resolve the Jack/Miranda argument successfully
-Side with Tali during the Tali/Legion argument
-Do side missions and others if you want the crew to die (except Chakwas)
-Bring Kasumi and Tali to fight the Oculus (so Legion dies)

Assignments
Vents - Jacob (dies)
Fire Team Leader - Any
Biotic - Miranda (bring Tali and Garrus, make sure Garrus dies)
Second Fire Team Leader - Grunt (dies)
Escort - Zaeed (dies)
Final boss squadmates - Samara and Miranda
Distraction Team - Jack, Kasumi, Tali, Mordin (only Mordin should die)

Deaths, before landing
Legion - No Shield Upgrade, incinerated
Thane - No Weapons Upgrade, impaled

Deaths, after landing
Jacob - Died by rocket to face
Garrus - Died by seeker swarm
Grunt - Died while closing second door
Zaeed - Died escorting the crew
Mordin - Died holding the line

-----------------
Final Squadmates: Kasumi, Jack, Miranda, Tali, Samara (Girl power!)
-----------------

Actually I did this exactly and what I found was Mordin and Tali ended up dying so I upped the strength of the distraction team slightly by swapping Miranda into distraction and taking Loyal Jack with me to the boss.

This will result in only Mordin dying holding the line.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Yup in my 'women power' playthrough (listed on page 20) I had Morinth, Jack, Miranda and Mordin on distraction duties whilst I took Kasumi and Tali (the two weakest women for distraction duty) to the final battle and only Mordin died in that run.

[phatmarshi]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Ecael, have you tried working out a Kasumi & Zaeed only survive but
with everyones loyalty mission done playthrough yet?


Only way I can figure it is possible is by doing the following and it is taking a bit
of a gamble I think.

All 12 loyalty missions completed. Normal recruitment mission order.

-----------------
Final Squadmates: Kasumi and Zaeed
-----------------

Loyals: Jacob, Grunt, Garrus, Mordin, Kasumi, Thane, Jack, Legion, Miranda, Tali
Non-loyals: Miranda, Samara, Tali (either by handing evidence over or by siding with Legion)
Normandy Upgrades: None
Chakwas & Crew: All, some or just Dr.Chakwas (player choice)
Before the Omega-4 Relay
- Side with Jack during the Jack/Miranda argument
- Either hand evidence over during Tali Loyalty mission or side with Legion during the Tali/Legion argument
- Do side missions after crew abduction if you want some or all of the crew to die (except Chakwas)
- Bring Kasumi and Tali to fight the Oculus (so Legion dies)

Assignments
Vents - Jacob (dies)
Fire Team Leader - Any
Biotic - Miranda (bring Tali or Mordin and Garrus, make sure Garrus dies)
Second Fire Team Leader - Grunt (dies)
Escort - Samara (dies)
Final boss squadmates - Tali and Miranda
Distraction Team - Zaeed, Kasumi, Mordin (hopefully only Mordin dies)

Deaths, before landing
Jack - No Armor Upgrade, gets lasered
Legion - No Shield Upgrade, incinerated
Thane - No Weapons Upgrade, impaled

Deaths, after landing
Jacob - Died by rocket to face
Garrus - Died by seeker swarm
Grunt - Died while closing second door
Samara - Died escorting the crew
Tali - Died after final battle
Miranda - Died after final battle
Mordin - Died holding the line

-----------------
Final Squadmates: Kasumi and Zaeed (DLC power!)
-----------------

Gamble is of course on Kasumi surviving the HtL section seeing as noticed couple of weeks ago you said you managed to get 3 people killed off whilst they HtL.

Am also going to try that 'women power' playthrough but with a slight difference in that Legion is going to be sent back to Cerberus so will need to make some alterations to take that into account.

I try to follow this but my problem was loyal mordin with zaeed and kasumi for the distraction team means all 3 survives.

If i swap in a loyal Tali and pull Zaeed out to fight the boss then both Tali and Mordin dies. If Tali is unloyal then only Tali dies.

However if the distraction team is Loyal Zaeed, Loyal Kasumi and unloyal Mordin. Then only Mordin dies.

So I dont think there is way to have only Zaeed and Kasumi survive the suicide mission while also doing all 12 loyalty missions.

[Ecael]

phatmarshi wrote...

Actually I did this exactly and what I found was Mordin and Tali ended up dying so I upped the strength of the distraction team slightly by swapping Miranda into distraction and taking Loyal Jack with me to the boss.

This will result in only Mordin dying holding the line.

Ah, good to know. Wasn't expecting two people to die in that part.

I'll correct my post:

All 12 loyalty missions completed. Normal recruitment mission order.

-----------------
Final Squadmates: Kasumi, Jack, Miranda, Tali, Samara (Girl power!)
-----------------

Loyals: Jacob, Grunt, Garrus, Mordin, Kasumi, Thane, Jack, Legion, Miranda, Tali, Samara
Non-loyals: Zaeed
Normandy Upgrades: Silaris Heavy Ship Armor (Jack survives)
Chakwas & Crew: Dr. Chakwas survives?

Before the Omega-4 Relay
-Do Zaeed's loyalty, save the workers but don't Charm Zaeed's loyalty back
-You MUST resolve the Jack/Miranda argument successfully
-Side with Tali during the Tali/Legion argument
-Do side missions and others if you want the crew to die (except Chakwas)
-Bring Kasumi and Tali to fight the Oculus (so Legion dies)

Assignments
Vents - Jacob (dies)
Fire Team Leader - Any
Biotic - Miranda (bring Tali and Garrus, make sure Garrus dies)
Second Fire Team Leader - Grunt (dies)
Escort - Zaeed (dies)
Final boss squadmates - Samara and Jack
Distraction Team - Miranda, Kasumi, Tali, Mordin (only Mordin should die)

Deaths, before landing
Legion - No Shield Upgrade, incinerated
Thane - No Weapons Upgrade, impaled

Deaths, after landing
Jacob - Died by rocket to face
Garrus - Died by seeker swarm
Grunt - Died while closing second door
Zaeed - Died escorting the crew
Mordin - Died holding the line

-----------------
Final Squadmates: Kasumi, Jack, Miranda, Tali, Samara (Girl power!)
-----------------

Modifié par Ecael, 14 mai 2010 - 11:41 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

phatmarshi wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Ecael, have you tried working out a Kasumi & Zaeed only survive but
with everyones loyalty mission done playthrough yet?


Only way I can figure it is possible is by doing the following and it is taking a bit
of a gamble I think.

All 12 loyalty missions completed. Normal recruitment mission order.

-----------------
Final Squadmates: Kasumi and Zaeed
-----------------

Loyals: Jacob, Grunt, Garrus, Mordin, Kasumi, Thane, Jack, Legion, Tali
Non-loyals: Miranda, Samara
Normandy Upgrades: None
Chakwas & Crew: All, some or just Dr.Chakwas (player choice)
Before the Omega-4 Relay
- Side with Jack during the Jack/Miranda argument
- On Samara's loyalty mission, mention Justicar and Family to Morinth, she'll go, mission will complete but Samara still not loyal.
- Do side missions after crew abduction if you want some or all of the crew to die (except Chakwas)
- Bring Kasumi and Tali to fight the Oculus (so Legion dies)

Assignments
Vents - Jacob (dies)
Fire Team Leader - Any
Biotic - Miranda (bring Tali or Mordin and Garrus, make sure Garrus dies)
Second Fire Team Leader - Grunt (dies)
Escort - Samara (dies)
Final boss squadmates - Miranda and Zaeed
Distraction Team - Kasumi, Tali, Mordin (Tali and Mordin die)

Deaths, before landing
Jack - No Armor Upgrade, gets lasered
Legion - No Shield Upgrade, incinerated
Thane - No Weapons Upgrade, impaled

Deaths, after landing
Jacob - Died by rocket to face
Garrus - Died by seeker swarm
Grunt - Died while closing second door
Samara - Died escorting the crew
Miranda - Died after final battle
Mordin - Died holding the line
Tali - Died holding the line

-----------------
Final Squadmates: Kasumi and Zaeed (DLC power!)
-----------------

Gamble is of course on Kasumi surviving the HtL section seeing as noticed couple of weeks ago you said you managed to get 3 people killed off whilst they HtL.

Am also going to try that 'women power' playthrough but with a slight difference in that Legion is going to be sent back to Cerberus so will need to make some alterations to take that into account.

I try to follow this but my problem was loyal mordin with zaeed and kasumi for the distraction team means all 3 survives.

If i swap in a loyal Tali and pull Zaeed out to fight the boss then both Tali and Mordin dies. If Tali is unloyal then only Tali dies.

However if the distraction team is Loyal Zaeed, Loyal Kasumi and unloyal Mordin. Then only Mordin dies.

So I dont think there is way to have only Zaeed and Kasumi survive the suicide mission while also doing all 12 loyalty missions.

Thanks for testing that out, had been thinking to go back to try that after I had managed to get them out with no one loyal after people had reported issues and believing that it wasn't possible in any form.

Actually having a look back at it, you forgot to notice the error I had made.

Tali wasn't meant to be loyal. I stupidly listed her in the loyal list as well as the non loyal but later mention to either hand the evidence in or side with legion during the stand off.

But thanks to confirming that Mordin will survive if Zaeed is in the distraction team.

So basically you have confirmed that it is possible to do all 12 missions and come out with just Zaeed and Kasumi, just need to alter spots. I've now editted my initial post.

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 14 mai 2010 - 12:28 .

[Ecael]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

But thanks to confirming that Mordin will survive if Zaeed is in the distraction team.

So basically you have confirmed that it is possible to do all 12 missions and come out with just Zaeed and Kasumi, just need to alter spots. I've now editted my initial post.

Phatmarshi said that an un-loyal Mordin would die - so technically, it's 11 missions.



Although I remember someone posting that you can do Mordin's loyalty quest even after he's dead:
Mordin's Posthumous Loyalty

Not sure how that would carry over, though, since it's a glitch.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Ecael wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

But thanks to confirming that Mordin will survive if Zaeed is in the distraction team.

So basically you have confirmed that it is possible to do all 12 missions and come out with just Zaeed and Kasumi, just need to alter spots. I've now editted my initial post.

Phatmarshi said that an un-loyal Mordin would die - so technically, it's 11 missions.



Although I remember someone posting that you can do Mordin's loyalty quest even after he's dead:
Mordin's Posthumous Loyalty

Not sure how that would carry over, though, since it's a glitch.

Yeah but look what Phatmarshi also stated

phatmarshi wrote...

If i swap in a loyal Tali and pull
Zaeed out to fight the boss then both Tali and Mordin dies. If Tali is
unloyal then only Tali dies.

Actually that just reminded me, I need to make a 2nd edit and put Tali back to being loyal

Odd that Tali's loyalty ensures Mordin's death

Also in that topic you linked, I also commented on how you could do Samara and Garrus loyalty missions post-suicde death too. As you say am not sure I'd want to try importing such a save though in case it glitches

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 14 mai 2010 - 12:27 .

[GothamLord]

If I missed it in the 20+ pages I apologize. I'm getting ready to start doing a couple of these death runs just for S&Gs. I wanted to double check though do Grunt & Legion still count towards surviving crew member total in saving Shepard if they arent *awake*? I was curious if a run that involved not opening Grunt's tank or re-activating Legion, but killing everyone else off would still allow Shepard to somehow *magically* survive.

[Ecael]

GothamLord wrote...

If I missed it in the 20+ pages I apologize. I'm getting ready to start doing a couple of these death runs just for S&Gs. I wanted to double check though do Grunt & Legion still count towards surviving crew member total in saving Shepard if they arent *awake*? I was curious if a run that involved not opening Grunt's tank or re-activating Legion, but killing everyone else off would still allow Shepard to somehow *magically* survive.

Well, we won't know the consequences of leaving Grunt in his tank or Legion inactive, but the simplest solution for the writers is to just count them as alive.

If you kill them in the suicide mission, they're gone forever, with no way to write them back in.

[GothamLord]

Ecael wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

If I missed it in the 20+ pages I apologize. I'm getting ready to start doing a couple of these death runs just for S&Gs. I wanted to double check though do Grunt & Legion still count towards surviving crew member total in saving Shepard if they arent *awake*? I was curious if a run that involved not opening Grunt's tank or re-activating Legion, but killing everyone else off would still allow Shepard to somehow *magically* survive.

Well, we won't know the consequences of leaving Grunt in his tank or Legion inactive, but the simplest solution for the writers is to just count them as alive.

If you kill them in the suicide mission, they're gone forever, with no way to write them back in.

Well I meant more in the fact that there wouldnt be anyone to grab Shepard during his jump back towards the ship cause everyone died but the fact that the game could still recognize two crew members werent really *killed*   Would one of them magically appear in the cutscene to pull Shepard up and then go vanishing back to their deactive state??

Then probably glitch out if it allowed Post game play and I tried to do a mission before getting both of them awake.

Modifié par GothamLord, 14 mai 2010 - 12:41 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

I know what you mean, Gotham. This is ultimately dependent on how the suicide mission was programmed in the first place. Either outcome is possible, but I'm going to toss in my bet and say no, you'd still die. You can prove me right/wrong and try it yourself.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 14 mai 2010 - 12:50 .

[GothamLord]

It'll be a couple days before I get to try it since my work week just started today. I'll advise what happens though, unless someone beats me to trying it before hand. I want a Kasumi / Zaeed run too but the idea of the *two* members being inactive and no really dead triggered my thought process to see that outcome first.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

GothamLord wrote...

Ecael wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

If I missed it in the 20+ pages I apologize. I'm getting ready to start doing a couple of these death runs just for S&Gs. I wanted to double check though do Grunt & Legion still count towards surviving crew member total in saving Shepard if they arent *awake*? I was curious if a run that involved not opening Grunt's tank or re-activating Legion, but killing everyone else off would still allow Shepard to somehow *magically* survive.

Well, we won't know the consequences of leaving Grunt in his tank or Legion inactive, but the simplest solution for the writers is to just count them as alive.

If you kill them in the suicide mission, they're gone forever, with no way to write them back in.

Well I meant more in the fact that there wouldnt be anyone to grab Shepard during his jump back towards the ship cause everyone died but the fact that the game could still recognize two crew members werent really *killed*   Would one of them magically appear in the cutscene to pull Shepard up and then go vanishing back to their deactive state??

Then probably glitch out if it allowed Post game play and I tried to do a mission before getting both of them awake.

Its funny you mention this because I was thinking the other day how the '2 squadmates' rule does seem a bit odd when it comes to these two.

In theory thanks to these two they could have written it in that you just needed 1 squadmate alive to help get you back in. You could then go either activate Legion or release Grunt and you have 2 squadmates again to continue your adventures.

I suppose the point is that it has to take into account that at that point the game obviously doesn't know you would choose the 'continue' option. Hence the 2 squadmate rule has to be applied.

One thing to note is when you talk to EDI about Grunt whilst he is in the pod, she mentions that as long as the Ship has power he can survive.

So one way for Bioware to account for anyone whom left him in the tank is to have it at some point in the opening sequence of ME3 the ship loses power and thus Grunt dies. Not sure if that would have similar affect on Legion. Perhaps the circuits get fried causing loss of power and thus also Legion gets frazzled.

A slight niggle I have is if you have either one of them in their de-active/unreleased state during the abduction sequence, EDI states "No other lifeforms onboard" well... apart from Grunt and Legion seeing as they are still there post-abduction sequence

Tsk, EDI making such a schoolboy error

[Ecael]

GothamLord wrote...

Well I meant more in the fact that there wouldnt be anyone to grab Shepard during his jump back towards the ship cause everyone died but the fact that the game could still recognize two crew members werent really *killed*   Would one of them magically appear in the cutscene to pull Shepard up and then go vanishing back to their deactive state??

Then probably glitch out if it allowed Post game play and I tried to do a mission before getting both of them awake.

Ah, my mistake.

In that case, Shepard would die, so you wouldn't get any post-game play unless you had 4 surviving squadmates (technically speaking).

[GothamLord]

Ecael wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

Well I meant more in the fact that there wouldnt be anyone to grab Shepard during his jump back towards the ship cause everyone died but the fact that the game could still recognize two crew members werent really *killed*   Would one of them magically appear in the cutscene to pull Shepard up and then go vanishing back to their deactive state??

Then probably glitch out if it allowed Post game play and I tried to do a mission before getting both of them awake.

Ah, my mistake.

In that case, Shepard would die, so you wouldn't get any post-game play unless you had 4 surviving squadmates (technically speaking).

Okay.  I take you as the authority in this area so, if the game doesnt recognize them as alive for the ending and Shepard would indeed die I might do the Kasumi / Zaeed run first.

[phatmarshi]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

But thanks to confirming that Mordin will survive if Zaeed is in the distraction team.

So basically you have confirmed that it is possible to do all 12 missions and come out with just Zaeed and Kasumi, just need to alter spots. I've now editted my initial post.

Phatmarshi said that an un-loyal Mordin would die - so technically, it's 11 missions.



Although I remember someone posting that you can do Mordin's loyalty quest even after he's dead:
Mordin's Posthumous Loyalty

Not sure how that would carry over, though, since it's a glitch.

Yeah but look what Phatmarshi also stated

phatmarshi wrote...

If i swap in a loyal Tali and pull
Zaeed out to fight the boss then both Tali and Mordin dies. If Tali is
unloyal then only Tali dies.

Actually that just reminded me, I need to make a 2nd edit and put Tali back to being loyal

Odd that Tali's loyalty ensures Mordin's death

Also in that topic you linked, I also commented on how you could do Samara and Garrus loyalty missions post-suicde death too. As you say am not sure I'd want to try importing such a save though in case it glitches

This is the best I can do..perhaps i wasnt clear before.
From memory if the distraction team is
L Zaeed, L Kasumi, U Mordin = Mordin dead
L Tali, L Kasumi, L Mordin = Mordin dead  + Tali dead
U Tali, L Kasumi, L Mordin = Tali dead

Considering U Miranda has to die at boss, there is only 1 spot to play around with that matters. I played with Tali's loyalty to kill Mordin as that has no bearing on any others death.

Modifié par phatmarshi, 14 mai 2010 - 01:19 .

[Ecael]

phatmarshi wrote...

This is the best I can do..perhaps i wasnt clear before.
From memory if the distraction team is
L Zaeed, L Kasumi, U Mordin = Mordin dead
L Tali, L Kasumi, L Mordin = Mordin dead  + Tali dead
U Tali, L Kasumi, L Mordin = Tali dead

Considering U Miranda has to die at boss, there is only 1 spot to play around with that matters. I played with Tali's loyalty to kill Mordin as that has no bearing on any others death.

Good find! It's weird how making Tali loyal causes both Mordin and Tali to die.

Next game, I might just exile her and have Legion lose the argument. I'm sure the true geth will appreciate it after I get Legion killed.

Modifié par Ecael, 14 mai 2010 - 01:24 .

[phatmarshi]

Ecael wrote...

phatmarshi wrote...

This is the best I can do..perhaps i wasnt clear before.
From memory if the distraction team is
L Zaeed, L Kasumi, U Mordin = Mordin dead
L Tali, L Kasumi, L Mordin = Mordin dead  + Tali dead
U Tali, L Kasumi, L Mordin = Tali dead

Considering U Miranda has to die at boss, there is only 1 spot to play around with that matters. I played with Tali's loyalty to kill Mordin as that has no bearing on any others death.

Good find! It's weird how making Tali loyal causes both Mordin and Tali to die.

Next game, I might just exile her and have Legion lose the argument. I'm sure the true geth will appreciate it after I get Legion killed.

No wait..I'm slightly confused from my other playthroughs.
It should be..

L Tali, L Kasumi, L Mordin = Mordin dead

Which means Tali lives when I dont want her to..that actually makes more sense.