1201 réponses à ce sujet

[NICKjnp]

I know how to make sure that everyone lives... use her.

[Sand King]

NICKjnp wrote...

I know how to make sure that everyone lives... use her.

Win:wizard:

[Ecael]

NICKjnp wrote...

I know how to make sure that everyone lives... use her.

I got her killed on my latest save file.

In fact, I think you can get 8 of them killed in Dragon Age: Origins and can tell two others to leave. One of those that leave can be killed in Awakening.

Dog - Leave him at Ostagar to get owned by the invading Darkspawn
Sten - Leave him at Lothering to get owned by the invading Darkspawn
Leliana - Leave her at Lothering to get owned by the invading Darkspawn
Shale - Bring her to the Anvil of the Void and side with Caridin
Zevran - Slit his throat the first time you meet him
Wynne - Side with the templars and kill her
Alistair - Spare Loghain's life, make Anora queen, and execute him
Loghain - Have him sacrifice himself at the Archdemon
Oghren - Get him killed in Dragon Age: Awakening

That leaves you with Morrigan, but you can tell her to leave at camp (as well as Oghren). That means you'll only have Alistair with you until the Landsmeet, and then only Loghain up until the Archdemon.

...Not there's any point to all this, though, since Dragon Age 2 won't let you import your character.

[Pacifien]

Ecael wrote...
I would suggest using the save game editor and repeatedly editing the auto-save right before you fight the final boss - it will save a LOT of time in testing this out.

If there are different defensive and death scores to hold the line for more than just Garrus/Samara, then I can only say one thing:[/b]*snip*

I really need to learn how to mod the game. I have the 360 version, though, so I'm not sure what time that saves me versus simply running the mission repeatedly on casual difficulty. I do have a save point after the vents but before the biotic shield, so it's not so bad.

Did extra testing that shows Grunt/Zaeed/Garrus is a stronger defense than Grunt/Zaeed/Thane or Grunt/Zaeed/Legion.

So now the question is do Legion, Samara, and Thane have the same defense score as each other? I don't even know where to start on coming up with a squad combination where one of those three die while the others might live. And they might actually have the same score. I had read somewhere (but have never been able to find the post again) that Garrus, Grunt, and Zaeed actually contribute the same defense score. So I theorize something like this:

Best defense score: Garrus, Grunt, Zaeed
Second tier: Legion, Samara, Thane
Third tier: Jack, Jacob, Miranda
Fourth tier: Kasumi, Mordin, Tali

Since Garrus's spot in the death line-up is different from his defense, I suppose there could be other squadmates who are also out of place. For instance, Jacob could be second tier while Samara is third tier or something like that.

[Ecael]

Pacifien wrote...

Ecael wrote...
I would suggest using the save game editor and repeatedly editing the auto-save right before you fight the final boss - it will save a LOT of time in testing this out.

If there are different defensive and death scores to hold the line for more than just Garrus/Samara, then I can only say one thing:[/b]*snip*

I really need to learn how to mod the game. I have the 360 version, though, so I'm not sure what time that saves me versus simply running the mission repeatedly on casual difficulty. I do have a save point after the vents but before the biotic shield, so it's not so bad.

Did extra testing that shows Grunt/Zaeed/Garrus is a stronger defense than Grunt/Zaeed/Thane or Grunt/Zaeed/Legion.

So now the question is do Legion, Samara, and Thane have the same defense score as each other? I don't even know where to start on coming up with a squad combination where one of those three die while the others might live. And they might actually have the same score. I had read somewhere (but have never been able to find the post again) that Garrus, Grunt, and Zaeed actually contribute the same defense score. So I theorize something like this:

Best defense score: Garrus, Grunt, Zaeed
Second tier: Legion, Samara, Thane
Third tier: Jack, Jacob, Miranda
Fourth tier: Kasumi, Mordin, Tali

Since Garrus's spot in the death line-up is different from his defense, I suppose there could be other squadmates who are also out of place. For instance, Jacob could be second tier while Samara is third tier or something like that.

Ack, I didn't know you were on the console.

In that case, keep Jacob, have him do the biotic barrier, and then pair each of those three with Miranda to get them killed before the final stage.

[NICKjnp]

Ecael wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

I know how to make sure that everyone lives... use her.

I got her killed on my latest save file.

In fact, I think you can get 8 of them killed in Dragon Age: Origins and can tell two others to leave. One of those that leave can be killed in Awakening.

Dog - Leave him at Ostagar to get owned by the invading Darkspawn
Sten - Leave him at Lothering to get owned by the invading Darkspawn
Leliana - Leave her at Lothering to get owned by the invading Darkspawn
Shale - Bring her to the Anvil of the Void and side with Caridin
Zevran - Slit his throat the first time you meet him
Wynne - Side with the templars and kill her
Alistair - Spare Loghain's life, make Anora queen, and execute him
Loghain - Have him sacrifice himself at the Archdemon
Oghren - Get him killed in Dragon Age: Awakening

That leaves you with Morrigan, but you can tell her to leave at camp (as well as Oghren). That means you'll only have Alistair with you until the Landsmeet, and then only Loghain up until the Archdemon.

...Not there's any point to all this, though, since Dragon Age 2 won't let you import your character.

I was referencing her healing aura magic... which keeps everyone alive as long as you keep giving her lyrium.  Shale sides with Caridin.... she will only die if you side with Branka.

[HBC Dresden]

I'm not sure if this mentioned earlier, but with only Morinth and Kasumi left, what happens if you delete Kasumi after the suicide mission? One squadmate? Hell, what happens if you delete Kasumi right before the last boss fight?

[Pacifien]

More fun with Suicide Mission scenarios! I know people speculate how many people you need to be loyal and still have 100% survival (including the rescued Normandy crew). Since I have insomnia, I thought I'd play around with this a bit.

This post by Malysoun details what it took without Thane or Kasumi recruited. I decided to see what it would take if you recruited everyone.

Scenario 1 - Get four of the weakest squadmates loyal and one of the strongest defenders.
Loyal: Garrus, Jack, Kasumi, Mordin, Tali
Vents: Tali
1st Leader: Garrus
Escort: Mordin
Biotic Shield: Jack
2nd Leader: Garrus
Final squad: Kasumi and Tali
Result: Miranda died holding the line

Scenario 2 - Get three of the weakest squadmates loyal and two of the strongest defenders.
Loyal: Garrus, Grunt, Jack, Mordin, Tali
Vents: Tali
1st Leader: Garrus
Escort: Mordin
Biotic Shield: Jack
2nd Leader: Garrus
Final squad: Jack and Tali
Result: Kasumi died holding the line.

So I'm speculating that if you have all twelve squadmates doing the suicide mission, you'll need six loyal.

Malysoun's only research implied that if you have eleven squadmates doing the suicide mission, you'll need five loyal. However, this is assuming your eleventh squadmate is Zaeed and not the much weaker defender Kasumi.

If you have ten squadmates doing the suicide mission, you'll need four loyal. But again, this might change if one of those ten is Kasumi.

I have no idea why I'm trying to figure this all out.

[Ecael]

HBC Dresden wrote...

I'm not sure if this mentioned earlier, but with only Morinth and Kasumi left, what happens if you delete Kasumi after the suicide mission? One squadmate? Hell, what happens if you delete Kasumi right before the last boss fight?

You wouldn't be able to load the save file until you reinstalled the Kasumi DLC.

Pacifien wrote...

So I'm speculating that if you have all twelve squadmates doing the suicide mission, you'll need six loyal.

Malysoun's only research implied that if you have eleven squadmates doing the suicide mission, you'll need five loyal. However, this is assuming your eleventh squadmate is Zaeed and not the much weaker defender Kasumi.

If you have ten squadmates doing the suicide mission, you'll need four loyal. But again, this might change if one of those ten is Kasumi.

I have no idea why I'm trying to figure this all out.

I remember Dusty Everman said almost the same thing way before Kasumi DLC's came out:

Dusty Everman wrote...

If you want to make sure that no one dies after the Omega 4 relay, I believe the minimum number of loyal squad mates is five, and this requires Zaeed to be one of your crew. I might be mis-remembering and the actual value might be six. Otherwise you are going to lose people in the "hold the line" sequence.

If anyone has had no deaths with fewer loyal members than five (i.e. your squad selection screen has no red characters on it), please post howyou did it. I might be mistaken, and am curious how it would be done.

Also,as far as I know, there is no random Mordin death bug. It's just not obvious why he dies when he does, but it is by design.

Appareantly his "mis-remembering" was including the placeholder Kasumi back then.

:innocent:

Dusty might be interested in Malysoun's playthrough, though.

[CroGamer002]

Ecael wrote... Re-edited by me


All 12 loyalty missions completed. Normal recruitment mission order.

-----------------
Final Squadmates: Legion, Tali, Garrus, Mordin
-----------------

Loyals: Jack, Jacob, Grunt, Garrus, Mordin, Tali, Thane, Kasumi, Legion, Zaeed
Non-loyals: Miranda, Samara
Normandy Upgrades: None( upgraded after Suicide Mission)
Chakwas & Crew: ALIVE

Before the Omega-4 Relay
-Side with Jack during the Miranda/Jack fight
-Resolve the Tali/Legion fight for both loyalties
-Scare Morinth away when you meet her to mess up Samara's loyalty
-Bring Tali and Legion to fight the Oculus (so Kasumi dies)

Assignments
Vents - Jacob (dies)
Fire Team Leader - Any
Biotic - Samara (bring Miranda and Zaeed, Zaeed dies)
Second Fire Team Leader - Grunt (dies)
Escort - Mordin
Final boss squadmates - Miranda and Samara (both dies)
Distraction Team - Garrus, Legion,Tali

Deaths, before landing
Jack - No Armor Upgrade, laser'd
Kasumi - No Shield Upgrade, incinerated
Thane - No Weapon upgrade, impaled

Deaths, after landing
Jacob - Died by rocket to face
Zaeed - Died by seeker swarm
Grunt - Died while closing second door
Miranda - Died at final boss
Samara - Died at final boss

-----------------
Final Squadmates: Legion, Tali, Garrus, Mordin
-----------------

I upload Suicide Mission walkthrough of this scenario on Youtube.

Calm before sh*tstorm( I'll update it soon do to bad sound synch in romance scene)
Hamme... hmh, Normandy SR-2 fights through debrief( do I need explain Hammerhead in title?)
Sh*tstorm just began
Hell in vents( bad sound synch but bearly noticable, won't update)
No one left behind
Not the bees
Epic Paragon Speech
We need bigger guns
Decisions, decisions, decisions
Oh, I do have big gun
Aftermath

I hope you enjoy it.:happy:

Modifié par Mesina2, 13 juin 2010 - 07:41 .

[Ecael]

Anyway, jlb524 and others have suggested that the seeker swarm death is not random. After lots of testing, it turns out they're right - and Morinth has her own place on the seeker swarm list:

Seeker Swarm Death List (First to Last):
1. Thane
2. Jack
3. Garrus
4. Legion
5. Samara
6. Grunt
7. Jacob
8. Mordin
9. Tali
10. Kasumi
11. Zaeed
12. Morinth
13. Miranda

Thane/Grunt = Thane taken
Thane/Garrus = Thane taken
Thane/Jack = Thane taken
Thane/Jacob = Thane taken
Thane/Kasumi = Thane taken
Thane/Legion = Thane taken
Thane/Miranda = Thane taken
Thane/Mordin = Thane taken
Thane/Morinth = Thane taken
Thane/Samara = Thane taken
Thane/Tali = Thane taken
Thane/Zaeed = Thane taken

Jack/Garrus = Jack taken
Jack/Grunt = Jack taken
Jack/Jacob = Jack taken
Jack/Kasumi = Jack taken
Jack/Legion = Jack taken
Jack/Miranda = Jack taken
Jack/Mordin = Jack taken
Jack/Morinth = Jack taken
Jack/Samara = Jack taken
Jack/Tali = Jack taken
Jack/Zaeed = Jack taken

Garrus/Grunt = Garrus taken
Garrus/Jacob = Garrus taken
Garrus/Legion = Garrus taken
Garrus/Kasumi = Garrus taken
Garrus/Miranda = Garrus taken
Garrus/Mordin = Garrus taken
Garrus/Morinth = Garrus taken
Garrus/Samara = Garrus taken
Garrus/Tali = Garrus taken
Garrus/Zaeed = Garrus taken

Legion/Grunt = Legion taken
Legion/Jacob = Legion taken
Legion/Kasumi = Legion taken
Legion/Miranda = Legion taken
Legion/Mordin = Legion taken
Legion/Morinth = Legion taken
Legion/Samara = Legion taken
Legion/Tali = Legion taken
Legion/Zaeed = Legion taken

Samara/Grunt = Samara taken
Samara/Jacob = Samara taken
Samara/Kasumi = Samara taken
Samara/Miranda = Samara taken
Samara/Mordin = Samara taken
Samara/Tali = Samara taken
Samara/Zaeed = Samara taken

Grunt/Jacob = Grunt taken
Grunt/Kasumi = Grunt taken
Grunt/Miranda = Grunt taken
Grunt/Mordin = Grunt taken
Grunt/Morinth = Grunt taken
Grunt/Tali = Grunt taken
Grunt/Zaeed = Grunt taken

Jacob/Kasumi = Jacob taken
Jacob/Miranda = Jacob taken
Jacob/Mordin = Jacob taken
Jacob/Morinth = Jacob taken
Jacob/Zaeed = Jacob taken
Jacob/Tali = Jacob taken

Mordin/Miranda = Mordin taken
Mordin/Morinth = Mordin taken
Mordin/Tali = Mordin taken
Mordin/Kasumi = Mordin taken
Mordin/Zaeed = Mordin taken

Tali/Kasumi = Tali taken
Tali/Miranda = Tali taken
Tali/Morinth = Tali taken
Tali/Zaeed = Tali taken

Kasumi/Miranda = Kasumi taken
Kasumi/Morinth = Kasumi taken
Kasumi/Zaeed = Kasumi taken

Zaeed/Miranda = Zaeed taken
Zaeed/Morinth = Zaeed taken

Morinth/Miranda = Morinth taken

Modifié par Ecael, 14 juin 2010 - 11:32 .

[CroGamer002]

Ecael wrote.

Zaeed/Miranda = Zaeed taken

Confirmed.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Ecael wrote...

Morinth/Miranda = Miranda taken

 Remember that playthrough where Morinth was giving me all kinds of grief (poor leaders surviving the diversion).

Well in that playthrough, the above is where I got rid of Morinth.

Miranda+Garrus only survivors playthrough (grunt not activated and tali not recruited)
armor - jack
shield - legion
vent - jacob
escort - zaeed
swarm - morinth (thane used as Biotic, Miranda as other squadmate)
diversion - (mordin lived)
door defence - mordin (miranda survived)
final battle - thane (garrus survived)

Come on, you know just as much as I do that Miranda is unkillable in that spot without some sort of glitch. Having said that, as mentioned above, Morinth is a glitchy lady allowing poor diversion leaders to survive.

Edit: Just realised, considering the way you've listed the others am going to guess you made a typo and you meant to put 'Morinth taken'

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 14 juin 2010 - 11:11 .

[Ecael]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Edit: Just realised, considering the way you've listed the others am going to guess you made a typo and you meant to put 'Morinth taken'

Yup. Need to correct that.

Thanks Ulrich!

[CroGamer002]

Ecael wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Edit: Just realised, considering the way you've listed the others am going to guess you made a typo and you meant to put 'Morinth taken'

Yup. Need to correct that.

Thanks Ulrich!

I saw on Youtube that Miranda got taken by seeker swarm.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Mesina2 wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Edit: Just realised, considering the way you've listed the others am going to guess you made a typo and you meant to put 'Morinth taken'

Yup. Need to correct that.

Thanks Ulrich!

I saw on Youtube that Miranda got taken by seeker swarm.

It's a glitch, if you notice in that video, Shepherd never screams MIRANDA! like he does everyone elses names and there is no screaming or anything voiced by Miranda/Yvonne Strahovski. Also in that video she re-appears in the following scene and it is common belief from some of us that that following scene is the reason for Miranda's plot armor. That and basically the only real way to kill her is to have her not loyal and kill her off in the final battle as she can have the habit of even surviving non-loyal on door defence unless she is the weakest person left there. Course another way to ensure it is for her to be the only one on door defence and not loyal.

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 14 juin 2010 - 12:00 .

[CroGamer002]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Edit: Just realised, considering the way you've listed the others am going to guess you made a typo and you meant to put 'Morinth taken'

Yup. Need to correct that.

Thanks Ulrich!

I saw on Youtube that Miranda got taken by seeker swarm.

It's a glitch, if you notice in that video, Shepherd never screams MIRANDA! like he does everyone elses names and there is no screaming or anything voiced by Miranda/Yvonne Strahovski. Also in that video she re-appears in the following scene and it is common belief from some of us that that following scene is the reason for Miranda's plot armor. That and basically the only real way to kill her is to have her not loyal and kill her off in the final battle as she can have the habit of even surviving non-loyal on door defence unless she is the weakest person left there. Course another way to ensure it is for her to be the only one on door defence and not loyal.

Didn't know that.

[CroGamer002]

Could you put all death list's on first post?

[JockBuster]

[quote]smecky-kitteh wrote...

can anyone tell me how the seeker swarm deaths work. I've noticed the stronger characters like garrus, jacob, and grunt alway's get taken away while characters like mordin, tali, and miranda never die. the only time i've seen tali die is when I bring miranda. a lot of people say its just done at random but I'm not sure thats the case.[/quote]

All I know is that Miranda can't die.[/quote]

OH YES the Ceberus cheerleader **** CAN!
Do her Loyality missions to get the medigel 5 & submachine gun upgrade & credits. Then side with Jack in their cat fight. Now she is UNloyal and WILL die holding the line (or maybe as 2nd fire team leader, only wounded so far, but Tali WILL die if suit puncture).

[CroGamer002]

JockBuster wrote...

smecky-kitteh wrote...

can anyone tell me how the seeker swarm deaths work. I've noticed the stronger characters like garrus, jacob, and grunt alway's get taken away while characters like mordin, tali, and miranda never die. the only time i've seen tali die is when I bring miranda. a lot of people say its just done at random but I'm not sure thats the case.

All I know is that Miranda can't die.

OH YES the Ceberus cheerleader **** CAN!
Do her Loyality missions to get the medigel 5 & submachine gun upgrade & credits. Then side with Jack in their cat fight. Now she is UNloyal and WILL die holding the line (or maybe as 2nd fire team leader, only wounded so far, but Tali WILL die if suit puncture).

She won't die holding the line unless she is weakest, everyone unloyal or only one.

Modifié par Mesina2, 14 juin 2010 - 02:26 .

[TheAzureVanguard]

How do you get Koylat arrested and sent to jail??

[Ecael]

TheAzureVanguard wrote...

How do you get Koylat arrested and sent to jail??

Shoot Jorim Talid yourself and then don't use the persuade option when you're back at C-Sec. Kolyat will have to spend a few years in prison.

[Fiery Phoenix]

^ What is Thane's reaction to that? I can't bring myself to do it, so just go ahead and spoil it for me. :-)

[Ecael]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

^ What is Thane's reaction to that? I can't bring myself to do it, so just go ahead and spoil it for me. :-)

Unfortunately, it's the same - the usual handshake with Captain Bailey, except he's thanking him for trying to reduce the prison sentence instead.

[Ecael]

Mesina2 wrote...

Could you put all death list's on first post?

I'll reorganize everything once someone (or I) have confirmed the hold the line lists.

As for now, I have links at the bottom of the original post that lead to each list.