1201 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecael]

Ecael wrote...

Here's my final try at making tiers - however, we'll have to assume that Jack, Tali, Mordin and Kasumi add nothing (or next to nothing) regardless of loyalty:

• A Tier (4.0): Grunt, Zaeed, Garrus
  
• B Tier (3.0): U-Grunt, U-Zaeed, U-Garrus
  
• C Tier (2.0): Legion, Morinth, Samara, Thane, Jacob, Miranda
  
• D Tier (1.0): U-Legion, U-Samara, U-Thane, U-Jacob, U-Miranda, Jack, Kasumi, Tali, Mordin
  
• F Tier (0.0): U-Jack, U-Kasumi, U-Tali, U-Mordin

=2.0 average © is required for all non-loyals to survive
+1.0 average (D+) is required for all loyals to survive

*Each time someone dies, the game averages the numbers again and kills another one off if the number is too low.

In other words, if you have the whole squad with you and there's at least 1 non-loyal holding the line, you need a combined 18 points in order for everyone to survive.

Ok, I think it works!

1. L-Tali
2. L-Jack
3. L-Kasumi

4. L-Garrus
5. L-Legion
6. L-Samara
7. L-Thane
8. Jacob
9. Miranda
10. Mordin
11. Zaeed
12. Grunt

7 loyals, SURVIVED - (18 pt. HTL)

1. L-Tali
2. L-Jack
3. L-Kasumi

4. L-Garrus
5. L-Samara
6. L-Thane
7. L-Mordin
8. Jacob
9. Miranda
10. Legion
11. Zaeed
12. Grunt

7 loyals, SURVIVED (18 pt. HTL)

1. L-Jacob
2. L-Jack
3. L-Kasumi

4. L-Garrus
5. L-Mordin
6. L-Samara
7. L-Thane
8. Tali
9. Miranda
10. Legion
11. Zaeed
12. Grunt

FAIL, Tali Dead (7 loyal, 17 pt. HTL)

Modifié par Ecael, 21 juin 2010 - 12:39 .

[Ecael]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

So, now that Overlord is out, how does that factor into your 'worst playthrough'?

I'm definitely going with the Renegade option for this Shepard.

Is this in general, or because you blew up the Heretics and saved the true Geth?

When I do my own 'worst game' challenge, I intend to sell Legion. At which point a defense against the Geth would be good, and so I'd do paragon to lessen the chances of a successful defense.

But, seeing as you do have the good geth, letting Cerberus keep the boy would certainly put a wedge between Geth and organics.

It's a bit iffy on sellilng Legion - we won't know the consequences of that until ME3. It could be extremely significant or extremely insignificant, like so:

1. Legion is sold to Cerberus, Legion is replaced by another geth from the Perseus Veil (backup copy) who already rewrote/killed the heretics

or

2. Legion is sold to Cerberus/dies without loyalty, and the heretic geth take over everything

First one is insigificant, second is very important.

Usually, when I make Renegade decisions, I decide on the most collateral damage and deaths. That's why I destroy the heretics and then destroy Legion.

[Pacifien]

Nice! Now I wonder how it scales down for fewer squadmates... >

From my testing with six squadmates holding the line, the magic total seems to be 12. Can test that with one B tier and the rest from C tier to see if that's true. From Ecael's testing for lone survivors, the magic number seems to be 3.

# of squadmates holding the line / defense score needed for 100% survival
1 / 3
2 / ?
3 / ?
4 / ?
5 / ?
6 / 12
7 / ?
8 / ?
9 / 18

Huh. I wonder if the score you need to meet is twice the number of squadmates on the line. Like you need a total of 16 with 8 squadmates there.

...

*chants "IwillnottestthisIwillnottestthis"*

Modifié par Pacifien, 21 juin 2010 - 01:43 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Ecael wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

So, now that Overlord is out, how does that factor into your 'worst playthrough'?

I'm definitely going with the Renegade option for this Shepard.

Is this in general, or because you blew up the Heretics and saved the true Geth?

When I do my own 'worst game' challenge, I intend to sell Legion. At which point a defense against the Geth would be good, and so I'd do paragon to lessen the chances of a successful defense.

But, seeing as you do have the good geth, letting Cerberus keep the boy would certainly put a wedge between Geth and organics.

It's a bit iffy on sellilng Legion - we won't know the consequences of that until ME3. It could be extremely significant or extremely insignificant, like so:

1. Legion is sold to Cerberus, Legion is replaced by another geth from the Perseus Veil (backup copy) who already rewrote/killed the heretics

or

2. Legion is sold to Cerberus/dies without loyalty, and the heretic geth take over everything

First one is insigificant, second is very important.

Usually, when I make Renegade decisions, I decide on the most collateral damage and deaths. That's why I destroy the heretics and then destroy Legion.

I don't see why a stand-in Geth would beat the Heretics: Legion is the only platform, after all, and the only reason the Heretics weren't in the process of using the virus would be because of dramatic just-in-time narrative. By the time Legion is realized to be gone and they send another unit, I can't see them NOT being brainwashed. Destroying the Heretic station and the virus prevents all chance of their success, whereas selling Legion to Cerberus allows at least the possibility.

Well, I suppose they could do a convulted write-in, but they could just as easily do the same for most other 'big choices'.

[TheAzureVanguard]

Opening Poster...



Do you have a guide as to who dies from the SEEKER swarm based on which 2 members are in your squad at the time?



I'm trying to get rid of a loyal Garrus. And thats the only point at the final mission I can have him die due to other folks I'm "dealing with"



I will be having miranda do the biotic field which we all know is not the right decision. Therefore I know 1 of my 2 squad mates during that section will die from the seeker swarm. But I just want to ensure that it is Garrus and no the other one...

[Ecael]

Pacifien wrote...

Nice! Now I wonder how it scales down for fewer squadmates... >

From my testing with six squadmates holding the line, the magic total seems to be 12. Can test that with one B tier and the rest from C tier to see if that's true. From Ecael's testing for lone survivors, the magic number seems to be 3.

# of squadmates holding the line / defense score needed for 100% survival
1 / 3
2 / ?
3 / ?
4 / ?
5 / ?
6 / 12
7 / ?
8 / ?
9 / 18

Huh. I wonder if the score you need to meet is twice the number of squadmates on the line. Like you need a total of 16 with 8 squadmates there.

...

*chants "IwillnottestthisIwillnottestthis"*

The magic number for preventing non-loyal death is always 2. Anyone in the C Tier can also survive holding the line by themselves.

Just did a playthrough with 8 people recruited (3 loyal) and everyone surviving. Average score was exactly 2.

-----------------
No One Left Behind! (3 loyals)
-----------------

Loyals: Jack, Jacob, Tali (non-HTL team)
Non-loyals: Grunt, Garrus, Zaeed, Miranda, Mordin (HTL team)
Normandy Upgrades: All
Chakwas & Crew: All

Assignments
Vents - Tali
Fire Team Leader - Jacob
Biotic - Jack
Escort - Jacob
Second Fire Team Leader - Miranda
Final boss squadmates - Jack and Tali
Distraction Team - Grunt, Garrus, Zaeed, Miranda, Mordin

You can also make Miranda loyal instead of Jacob and send Tali as the escort.

http://social.biowar...03798/2#1206197

Dusty Everman wrote...

If you want to make sure that no one dies after the Omega 4 rela,. I believe the minimum number of loyal squad mates is five, and this requires Zaeed to be one of your crew.  I might be mis-remembering and the actual value might be six.  Otherwise you are going to lose people in the "hold the line" sequence.

If anyone has had no deaths with fewer loyal members than five (i.e. your squad selection screen has no red characters on it), please post how you did it.  I might be mistaken, and am curious how it would be done.

Also, as far as I know, there is no random Mordin death bug.  It's just not obvious why he dies when he does, but it is by design.

Minimum number with minimum recruitment - 3 loyal (8 recruited)
Minimum number with maximum recruitment - 7 loyal (12 recruited)

I feel like I've achieved Mass Effect enlightenment.

Modifié par Ecael, 21 juin 2010 - 04:12 .

[Ecael]

TheAzureVanguard wrote...

Opening Poster...

Do you have a guide as to who dies from the SEEKER swarm based on which 2 members are in your squad at the time?

I'm trying to get rid of a loyal Garrus. And thats the only point at the final mission I can have him die due to other folks I'm "dealing with"

I will be having miranda do the biotic field which we all know is not the right decision. Therefore I know 1 of my 2 squad mates during that section will die from the seeker swarm. But I just want to ensure that it is Garrus and no the other one...

http://social.biowar...5725/33#2878392

[Pacifien]

Ecael wrote...
I feel like I've achieved Mass Effect enlightenment.

Every time I have tried to describe the Hold the Line segment to someone, I've always had to use "magical defense score" because I didn't know what it actually was. I just knew there was one.

This changes everything! EVERYTHING! IN THE WORLD!

Actually, I think more like I will never have to run through the suicide mission ever again because the science is done, dude. Good job!

:happy:

[Pacifien]

I suppose this thread's become more than just the worst playthrough ever, but the ultimate guide to everything suicide mission.

[rabidhanar]

Ecael wrote...

http://social.biowar...5725/33#2878392

Thank you, now my renegade shepard is all alone with Morinth and Thane. Don't know how I got that one to work but there you go. Funny, like u my characters probably won't be around anymore. Thane = dead, Morinth = vampire asari.

[Ecael]

Pacifien wrote...

I suppose this thread's become more than just the worst playthrough ever, but the ultimate guide to everything suicide mission.

I'll get working on writing the entire guide. There's actually one thing I don't know yet though - the exact magic number needed for all loyals to survive. I know it's greater than 1.

[TheBlackBaron]

So if we wanted to sell off Legion for the Worst Possible Playthrough, bringing Thane instead of Tali to the Oculus fight (thereby dooming her to be incinerated and Garrus to be impaled), then letting him get eaten by Seeker swarms (since according to that chart he's #1 on the death list for that) should work, right?



Then take Miranda and Kasumi to the final boss, leaving just Morinth and Mordin.

[Pacifien]

If you take Thane to the Oculus fight, it won't save him from being impaled later on. But you can get Garrus eaten by the seeker swarm easily enough since he's also relatively low on the seeker swarm death list.

[TheBlackBaron]

Pacifien wrote...

If you take Thane to the Oculus fight, it won't save him from being impaled later on. But you can get Garrus eaten by the seeker swarm easily enough since he's also relatively low on the seeker swarm death list.

Cool, thanks.

Now that I think about it, you could recruit Zaeed as well, and send him (un-loyal, obviously) to the final boss with Miranda. That would leave Morinth, Kasumi, and Mordin to hold the line, which we already know will result in Mordin's death.

[Ecael]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

If you take Thane to the Oculus fight, it won't save him from being impaled later on. But you can get Garrus eaten by the seeker swarm easily enough since he's also relatively low on the seeker swarm death list.

Cool, thanks.

Now that I think about it, you could recruit Zaeed as well, and send him (un-loyal, obviously) to the final boss with Miranda. That would leave Morinth, Kasumi, and Mordin to hold the line, which we already know will result in Mordin's death.

There was always the chance that all three of them could die, but it just so happened to work in my favor that only Mordin did.

[smudboy]

Several months old? Time to lock a thread.

[Pacifien]

Dare the Ultimate Guide for the Omega-4 Relay Mission make this thread obsolete? Nah, people will always want to know specifically how to kill off various squadmates to get their desired two left. Not everyone wants to spend time calculating it.

By the way, what happens if you leave Grunt in the tank? Can you wake him up after the suicide mission?

[Siansonea]

smudboy wrote...

Several months old? Time to lock a thread.

Pouting isn't pretty, you know.

[Siansonea]

Pacifien wrote...

Dare the Ultimate Guide for the Omega-4 Relay Mission make this thread obsolete? Nah, people will always want to know specifically how to kill off various squadmates to get their desired two left. Not everyone wants to spend time calculating it.
By the way, what happens if you leave Grunt in the tank? Can you wake him up after the suicide mission?

Yes, but what would be the point? I did a Sentinel playthrough where I left Grunt in his decanter. I want to see what effect Bottled Grunt has in ME3, if any. It'll probably be an email. <_<

[C00Ki3 GiRL]

haha thats funny, Nice wann !

[Malysoun]

Ecael wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Nice! Now I wonder how it scales down for fewer squadmates... >

From my testing with six squadmates holding the line, the magic total seems to be 12. Can test that with one B tier and the rest from C tier to see if that's true. From Ecael's testing for lone survivors, the magic number seems to be 3.

# of squadmates holding the line / defense score needed for 100% survival
1 / 3
2 / ?
3 / ?
4 / ?
5 / ?
6 / 12
7 / ?
8 / ?
9 / 18

Huh. I wonder if the score you need to meet is twice the number of squadmates on the line. Like you need a total of 16 with 8 squadmates there.

...

*chants "IwillnottestthisIwillnottestthis"*

The magic number for preventing non-loyal death is always 2. Anyone in the C Tier can also survive holding the line by themselves.

Just did a playthrough with 8 people recruited (3 loyal) and everyone surviving. Average score was exactly 2.

-----------------
No One Left Behind! (3 loyals)
-----------------

Loyals: Jack, Jacob, Tali (non-HTL team)
Non-loyals: Grunt, Garrus, Zaeed, Miranda, Mordin (HTL team)
Normandy Upgrades: All
Chakwas & Crew: All

Assignments
Vents - Tali
Fire Team Leader - Jacob
Biotic - Jack
Escort - Jacob
Second Fire Team Leader - Miranda
Final boss squadmates - Jack and Tali
Distraction Team - Grunt, Garrus, Zaeed, Miranda, Mordin

You can also make Miranda loyal instead of Jacob and send Tali as the escort.

http://social.biowar...03798/2#1206197

Dusty Everman wrote...

If you want to make sure that no one dies after the Omega 4 rela,. I believe the minimum number of loyal squad mates is five, and this requires Zaeed to be one of your crew.  I might be mis-remembering and the actual value might be six.  Otherwise you are going to lose people in the "hold the line" sequence.

If anyone has had no deaths with fewer loyal members than five (i.e. your squad selection screen has no red characters on it), please post how you did it.  I might be mistaken, and am curious how it would be done.

Also, as far as I know, there is no random Mordin death bug.  It's just not obvious why he dies when he does, but it is by design.

Minimum number with minimum recruitment - 3 loyal (8 recruited)
Minimum number with maximum recruitment - 7 loyal (12 recruited)

I feel like I've achieved Mass Effect enlightenment.

Awesome, thanks for testing all this. Interesting a week ago when I said about adding Kasumi to my previous tests:
"Not sure how to describe it besides a classroom full of A students and
the new kid scores a D dropping the entire classes average."

Good to know that it is exactly a 2.0 C 'grade'

I just hadn't had the time to do more testing myself, so thanks again.

[Ecael]

Siansonea II wrote...

I want to see what effect Bottled Grunt has in ME3, if any. It'll probably be an email. <_<

[Billy Shears]

While its way too much work for me to go through another ME2 play through just to do this, Im excited to see how your ME3 turns out... keep us posted!

[Ecael]

Billy Shears wrote...

While its way too much work for me to go through another ME2 play through just to do this, Im excited to see how your ME3 turns out... keep us posted!

I'll post up a save file once all the Mass Effect 2 DLC (and DLC plot flags) are finished.

That may be a while, though.

:innocent:

[Hellhawx]

I posted long ago, but that was before Kasumi. I've imported an ME1 playthrough where I've taken every option to kill off the maximum amount of people. Now, my goal is to kill off as many people in ME2 as possible. I want to pretty much 100% the game (all side missions and all loyalty missions) but my goal is to kill 10 of the 12 squadmates off. How would I go about keeping Garrus and Grunt as the only survivors?