53 réponses à ce sujet

[GCreature]

 Oh noes, a bonus for those people who have supported and played the series since it's beginning.

[Bron Avery]

You were a Paragon with a new game, not from ME1? How is that even possible?

Modifié par Bron Avery, 14 février 2010 - 12:08 .

[FoFoZem]

I think the OP is assuming the passive skill tree is similar to the charm/intimidate skill of the previous game?



You can have paragon and renegade without having to sacrifice combat efficiency. The passive talent boosts your powers as well

[Atmosfear3]

I'm not having this problem on my lvl 30 infiltrator on her second playthrough on insanity. Started the a new game with my passive maxed out.

[Jerome620]

You can't do everything on one playthrough. One of the changes that was made (and improved IMO) over ME1. Now you have to choose ahead of time what you want to focus on if you want Paragon/Renegade options available late in the game. In ME1 you could nearly max both Paragon and Renegade on a second playthrough (possibly one playthrough if you forgo spending points in offensive and defensive skills), if you completed every quest/mission and played your cards right. This is because the "percent of possible" requirement was based on how many points you had in Charm/Intimidate (which you get to keep on subsequent playthroughs), NOT your current Paragon/Renegade score. So maxing both Charm and Intimidate points opens up BOTH conversation options every time. ME2 seems to merge these two things into the Paragon/Renegade meter. So its "percent of possible" is based on current Paragon/Renegade points, forcing you to choose in advance what type of character you want to be, or as a lot of people do on their first playthrough, myself included, just answer honestly and deal with the consequences.

In addition ME2 wipes your current Paragon/Renegade totals for subsequent playthroughs so there's no way to max both. For example, in my first ME2 playthrough I couldn't get the Paragon option available on the final dialog with Morinth in her apartment. It didn't matter if I tried doing it with 50% Paragon bar early in the game or nearly max Paragon bar at the end. What matters is if you've encountered a possibility of earning let's say 200 Paragon points, but you've only actually accumulated 150 of those possible 200, you have 75% of possible. Morinth's final Paragon option seems to have an extremely high "percent of possible" requirement. Which makes sense given her character background.

I found this exact same circumstance to be true during Zaaed's loyalty mission if you try to earn his loyalty through Paragon. My first playthrough finished with about 85% Paragon and 45% Renegade. I found the closer I got to the end of the game, the fewer Paragon options were available. Such as the afformentioned ones with Zaaed and Morinth. My second, finished with 100% Paragon and 15% Renegade. So there was never a time a Paragon option was unavailable because the only time I ever chose Renegade was on the "sudden action" opportunities. Therefore my "percent of possible" for Paragon stayed near 100% the entire game. You have to keep in mind that those red and blue conversation options are Charm and Intimidate. So you have to think of them in terms of "have I practiced enough at being nice or an **** to Charm or Intimidate this person". This is all the Paragon/Renegade meter is really there for. So you can go into those dialogs with strong-minded characters knowing what to expect. I know this is kind of a long-winded explanation, but the important thing to keep in mind if you're wondering why certain options aren't available, is it has nothing to do with how high your meter currently is on either side, its the "percent of possible" that counts. If you're a little of both, as most people who react honestly are, then you'll have fewer Charm and Intimidate options available late in the game.

Modifié par Jerome620, 12 février 2010 - 11:59 .

[We Tigers]

swk3000 wrote...

Any idea how you managed that?

I just played the game, really.  I almost never chose middle responses, either going with upper or bottom responses, even on the right when appropriate.  You get a couple of points even for those.  I talked to everyone, always explored the conversation tree, and took advantage of probably 80% of the available interrupts.  I don't think I had a single blue option greyed out the whole game, and I used pretty much all the ones available to me, and sometimes the reds.  I did import a paragon character, but the bonus you get appears to be extremely minimal.  Still, I did Zaeed's loyalty quest before even finishing the first wave of dossiers, and I managed to get him loyal with the paragon option despite saving the workers.

Modifié par We Tigers, 13 février 2010 - 12:22 .

[Pooh-bah]

I didn't import a character and started from scratch in ME2 with a new character. By the end of ME2 my paragon bar was maxed. Horizon is no where near the end of the game, I think I had maybe a bar of paragon at that point too. If you keep on playing and ensuring you do the little side quests, as well as always talking to people eg. your squad mates in the ship and stuff, and always choosing the 'good' conversation choice you will end up with it maxed or near maxed by the end.



One of the best places in terms of gaining a lump sum, of paragon points, is Tali's Loyalty mission. I think I got nearly 100 points doing that with always choosing paragon choices there.



I'm not sure exactly why you are complaining that you can't choose your passive skill on your insanity run... if you're doing insanity surely you're importing your ME2 character from your run with a lower difficulty level meaning you start at level 25 or something like that, so you have plenty of points to spread around? I couldn't imagine starting insanity with a level 1 character, I'd get ripped apart in the first room!

[apk117]

To be honest, I miss the ME1 Charm/Intimidate system. Sure it sucked having to sink points into Charm/Intimidate, but being able to say what you want to say and still be able to choose your preferred persuasion was ace compared to this nonsensical system that requires you to save particular loyalty missions until the end of the game and be an absolute angel/demon to use certain persuasions.

[Urazz]

apk117 wrote...

To be honest, I miss the ME1 Charm/Intimidate system. Sure it sucked having to sink points into Charm/Intimidate, but being able to say what you want to say and still be able to choose your preferred persuasion was ace compared to this nonsensical system that requires you to save particular loyalty missions until the end of the game and be an absolute angel/demon to use certain persuasions.

I agree.  I do kind of miss that.  Made it much easier to play how you want/say what you want.

One trick though is to import a ME1 character with Max Paragon/Renegade bars gained from that conversation bug on Noveria for infinite paragon/renegade points.  I did this on the playthrough I'm gonna use for ME3 and I was able to get about 80% renegade and like 90% paragon by the end of the game.

Modifié par Urazz, 13 février 2010 - 01:12 .

[Jaradakar]

swk3000 wrote...

As I said: I'm doing an Insanity run. I'm rather more interested in staying alive, but I'm royally pissed (as you can probably tell) that staying alive is costing me the conversation options I would like to take. I hate having to choose one or the other. I should be able to do both.

Then why even have a choice?  IMO it sounds like you are trying to do too much.

Want to max out Paragon, play on a easier setting and do so -- where taking a boost and loss in dps won't be an issue.

Want to play the game where it's a big challenge?  Play it on high difficulty, but don't worry about all the social options.  While I'll admit I'm a sociallgiht and when a dialog option comes up but I can't use it, I  hate it too. 

But you can't always have your cake and eat it too.

[Jerome620]

ME2 makes it so your decisions have consequences even further down the line. Playing a somewhat balanced Paragon/Renegade (as is the case with most people irl) reduces the amount of Charm/Intimidate options available later on. Look at it this way. The example I used before was Morinth's dialog in her apartment. When she lays into you with the Asari mind****, you really think you should be able to resist that and Charm or Intimidate her if you're someone who only chooses to be a Paragon or Renegade 50% of the time. That's absurd and its why her final dialog option has such a high "percent of possible" requirement to unlock. This new system is more realistic. Granted games are suppose to be an escape from reality, blah blah. But dialog is the one thing across all fantasies that should be grounded in reality. You can't be both 100% Paragon and 100% Renegade at the same time. Kudos to Bioware for making this change. Sometimes you are just forced to make the impossible choice, instead of saying what you really want to say. Can't make it any simpler.

Modifié par Jerome620, 13 février 2010 - 03:10 .

[swk3000]

GCreature wrote...

 Oh noes, a bonus for those people who have supported and played the series since it's beginning.

I have also played the first one. In fact, I have a character that I imported. However, I only have the one character, as I don't play 5 different characters; I just stick with one. However, importing my character would require me to play as a female, and for the Romance achievement I still need to get, the only person I'm interested in romancing is Tali. I'm therefore doing a Male character instead, and since I don't have a Male Shepard to import, that means starting from scratch.

Anyway, I appreciate all the input from everyone. However, before I screw around with things too badly, I'm going to re-play the last portion of the Horizon mission (going to be a **** and a half, but I did it once, so...), then re-spec Shepard. I'll keep Adrenaline Rush maxed out at first, but split my other points evenly between Combat Mastery and Warp Ammo and see if that works. If it doesn't, I'll reload and put all but one point into Combat Mastery and put the final point into Warp Ammo. I'd prefer to have Warp Ammo maxed first, but it looks like I'm going to have to make a sacrifice somewhere, so I will.

Thanks again, all.

[KalReegar]

I imported an ME1 Soldier and am Level 22 with almost full Paragon first playthrough with that character.



Though I wanted Renegade, so its not hard, but yeah investing in skills helps.

[slicer477]

SmilingMirror wrote...

SelphieSK wrote...

Uuh... There's a passive skill that gives you +100% Paragon/Renegade points.
And I maxed Renegade points while having an initial Paragon bonus, so... You must be doing something wrong here.

This


my bonuses from the last game seemed really insignificant when i imported. I almost wish I had a larger bonus.

Maybe NG+ will make it easier on you.

New Game+ doesn't transfer all your resources, credits and renagade/paragon scores, only your xp points.

[Agamemnon2589]

Holy crap, swk3000, quit b*tching. I was going to give some helpful pointers until I read the first page of this thread, which consists entirely of this:



swk3000: B*tch b*tch b*tch.

Helpful Forumite 1: Try this.

swk3000: No! B*tch b*tch b*tch!

Helpful Forumite 2: Ok...what about this, then?

swk3000: I don't wanna do that either! B*tch b*tch b*tch!

Helpful Forumite 3: Well, this worked for me.

swk3000: I don't like that! B*tch b*tch b*tch.



I'm starting to see a pattern here. Christ. Take a f*cking Valium.

[IntrepidProdigy]

The morality system in ME2 prevents you from playing the way that you want to. The morality system in ME1 wasn't perfect, but at least you could come out as neutral while still being able to choose what to say to people. It wouldn't be so bad if both renegade and paragon didn't reset to 0 on NG+. I hope they fix this for ME3.

Modifié par IntrepidProdigy, 13 février 2010 - 07:16 .

[sinosleep]

I finished the game on my first playthrough with 5 bars of renegade and 2 1/2 bars of paragon. I had both the paragon and renegade dialogue options on practically every conversation. I broke up a certain fight many say isn't possible to do VERY early on with (they were the 1st and 3rd loyalty missions I did) and the ONLY dialogue choice I wanted that I missed out on in the entirety of the game was saying "I'm a spectre". I made my own choices, and while I had more rengeade points, I clearly made a fair amount of paragon decisions.



Also, for those complaining about the passive skill, at least the passive renegade/paragon skill in this game HAS combat benefits. They usually give +health +damage along with the bonuses, it's not completely one sided like in ME 1 where you truly were giving up skill points for persuasion. People on these forums have a real bad habit of looking at ME 1 through rose colored glasses.

[IntrepidProdigy]

sinosleep wrote...

I finished the game on my first playthrough with 5 bars of renegade and 2 1/2 bars of paragon. I had both the paragon and renegade dialogue options on practically every conversation. I broke up a certain fight many say isn't possible to do VERY early on with (they were the 1st and 3rd loyalty missions I did) and the ONLY dialogue choice I wanted that I missed out on in the entirety of the game was saying "I'm a spectre". I made my own choices, and while I had more rengeade points, I clearly made a fair amount of paragon decisions.
 

Did you do this with renegade/paragon set to 0, or did you import a ME1 save for the first time and get the renegade/paragon bonus?

I haven't encountered any drawbacks to making choices when I imported a ME1 character due to the paragon/renegade bonus, but when I started a NG+ with the same character both meters were reset to 0. It feels kinda cheesy/dull making purely paragon or renegade choices just to ensure certain plot points.

[The Rickstah]

Peer of the Empire wrote...

To get Zaeed's Paragon loyalty you have to be Paragon all the way through the mission.  Or at least for 1 of the 2 early prompts you get with the word "mission" in them while he's busy blowing up the base.   Shep talking about sticking to the mission and stuff like that.  Maybe both; I've selected them as a pair when I have.  Then, later you get the option to lecture him into loyalty.

I was a Renegade and I accomplished this 1st time.  Hardy-har.  Course, on replays I tended to choose different responses which is how I discovered this in the first place.

ThisThisThisThis

[The Rickstah]

Just do Para 1st run for + Story & then Rene 2nd for FUN

[mundus66]

swk3000 wrote...

Maybe I should mention that I'm doing an Insanity run as a Soldier, so I have to focus on Adrenaline Rush first? And that I'm trying to get as much damage as I can, so I max out Warp Ammo second?

What it's coming out to is that I either focus on Combat and end up not having the points I need to take the Paragon options, so I get fscked out of the options I want that way, or I focus on the Paragon points, but have no way to actually survive long enough to make any use of them. That's beyond stupid.

Get a Squad member and let him have an ammo type set to squad. You get more damage that way than putting in ammo yourself, since you get to put in the Soldier talent. Its pretty much the same for every class really (except adept). First max unique ability then max passive class ability.

[huntrrz]

I'm a little confused - I have replayed a couple of times, and I got massive paragon points from my ME1 import, but when I checked the squad screen my ME2 paragon bar started at under 20%. About halfway through the game I was still getting paragon points even though I'd already filled the bar.



The biggest factor is probably that I maxed out my soldier character's... Combat Mastery(?) skill, which grants higher and higher paragon multipliers at each level.

[Taritu]

Jerome620 wrote...

You can't do everything on one playthrough. One of the changes that was made (and improved IMO) over ME1. Now you have to choose ahead of time what you want to focus on if you want Paragon/Renegade options available late in the game. In ME1 you could nearly max both Paragon and Renegade on a second playthrough (possibly one playthrough if you forgo spending points in offensive and defensive skills), if you completed every quest/mission and played your cards right. This is because the "percent of possible" requirement was based on how many points you had in Charm/Intimidate (which you get to keep on subsequent playthroughs), NOT your current Paragon/Renegade score. So maxing both Charm and Intimidate points opens up BOTH conversation options every time. ME2 seems to merge these two things into the Paragon/Renegade meter. So its "percent of possible" is based on current Paragon/Renegade points, forcing you to choose in advance what type of character you want to be, or as a lot of people do on their first playthrough, myself included, just answer honestly and deal with the consequences.

In addition ME2 wipes your current Paragon/Renegade totals for subsequent playthroughs so there's no way to max both. For example, in my first ME2 playthrough I couldn't get the Paragon option available on the final dialog with Morinth in her apartment. It didn't matter if I tried doing it with 50% Paragon bar early in the game or nearly max Paragon bar at the end. What matters is if you've encountered a possibility of earning let's say 200 Paragon points, but you've only actually accumulated 150 of those possible 200, you have 75% of possible. Morinth's final Paragon option seems to have an extremely high "percent of possible" requirement. Which makes sense given her character background.

I found this exact same circumstance to be true during Zaaed's loyalty mission if you try to earn his loyalty through Paragon. My first playthrough finished with about 85% Paragon and 45% Renegade. I found the closer I got to the end of the game, the fewer Paragon options were available. Such as the afformentioned ones with Zaaed and Morinth. My second, finished with 100% Paragon and 15% Renegade. So there was never a time a Paragon option was unavailable because the only time I ever chose Renegade was on the "sudden action" opportunities. Therefore my "percent of possible" for Paragon stayed near 100% the entire game. You have to keep in mind that those red and blue conversation options are Charm and Intimidate. So you have to think of them in terms of "have I practiced enough at being nice or an **** to Charm or Intimidate this person". This is all the Paragon/Renegade meter is really there for. So you can go into those dialogs with strong-minded characters knowing what to expect. I know this is kind of a long-winded explanation, but the important thing to keep in mind if you're wondering why certain options aren't available, is it has nothing to do with how high your meter currently is on either side, its the "percent of possible" that counts. If you're a little of both, as most people who react honestly are, then you'll have fewer Charm and Intimidate options available late in the game.

That explains a ton.  I had no idea it was % of possible, so i couldn't figure out why it wouldn't be open in many cases when my paragon was very high.

How irritating, because it's really opaque, and not intuitive at all.

Modifié par Taritu, 13 février 2010 - 09:27 .

[swk3000]

Agamemnon2589 wrote...

Holy crap, swk3000, quit b*tching. I was going to give some helpful pointers until I read the first page of this thread, which consists entirely of this:

swk3000: B*tch b*tch b*tch.
Helpful Forumite 1: Try this.
swk3000: No! B*tch b*tch b*tch!
Helpful Forumite 2: Ok...what about this, then?
swk3000: I don't wanna do that either! B*tch b*tch b*tch!
Helpful Forumite 3: Well, this worked for me.
swk3000: I don't like that! B*tch b*tch b*tch.

I'm starting to see a pattern here. Christ. Take a f*cking Valium.

Please keep in mind that when I created this thread, and when I was responding for most of the thread, I had just completed my nth attempt to defeat the swarm of Husks and the two Scions in the final area of Horizon. I was not in a good mood, nor was I very patient at all. I've since had time to calm down and get my bearings, so I'm on a much more even keel. I can't switch my moods at the drop of a hat, so a lot of that anger came out here. I apologize to everyone.

[Acero Azul]

this post is false, i had 3/4 paragon bar before even completing all of the loyalty quests or gaining the IFF with a brand new non transferred ME2 character