248 réponses à ce sujet

[Jackal904]

poisonoustea wrote...

Miranda is way more aggressive than Jack imo.
Jack acts out of a defense mechanism, Miranda is just plain selfish.

Miranda doesn't scream and charge at 3 mechs. And she doesn't want to kill pretty much every person she see's. So I don't think Miranda is more aggressive than Jack in the slightest bit.

[SharpEdgeSoda]

I like women who can kick my ass. I also agree with Ash's hesitance to accept aliens on the Normandy. It IS a state of the art vessel after all, It's logical to want to protect it's secrets.



And Ash isn't racist, just cautious. She DOES work without issue with the other aliens, and she does respect thier abilities. Ash worked with and complimented the skills of Kirahee's squad. She tells off the Terra Firma party. Ash just wants to see humanity be able to stand on it's own, not be the Council's lap dog. Never once does she want humanity standing above all other life.



In seems that in order to not be racist in the eyes of many ME players you have to be blindly naive, thinking the "pure paragon, hug everybody" path will not hurt them. Ashley never made the people your working with feel unwelcome. She talks to Garrus, Wrex, Liara and Tali as normaly as she talks to anyone else.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Jeremy Winston wrote...
 If she was in a firefight protecting a human and an alien, but could only save one, she'd save the human.  But, I could see her laying down her life to try to save an alien, if necessary.

And that is racism

Saving a child over an adult is sensible, saving a person over an animal is sensible.

Saving a human over an alien however, is racism. If both are complete strangers, you shouldn't value the human's life over the non-human.

[The BS Police]

BattleVisor wrote...

The BS Police wrote...

BattleVisor wrote...

Ashley haters are being so cynical, she really isnt a Xenophobe.

Really? I must have had my earplugs on when she said she wasn't a fan of aliens then.

Exactly, hardly an extreme view is it.

The illusive man, 'With this we will achieve human dominance in the galaxy'

This is extreme xenophobia

A Xenophob is a Xenophob no matter what.

[Dark_Caduceus]

I stopped liking Ashley as soon as she used her "If you're in a forest and a bear jumps you, and your only choice is to stay and be killed or sic your dog on him and run... well you might love your dog but it isn't human." Dogs=sentient aliens, ****. Jack was a little more tolerable but after hearing "I'm a tough biotic ****" for the 17th time she just got on my nerves.

[Valmy]

poisonoustea wrote...

Miranda is way more aggressive than Jack imo.
Jack acts out of a defense mechanism, Miranda is just plain selfish.

Ironic that somebody who devotes her entire life to an organization and sacrifices her own life for the safety and happiness of her sister would be seen as selfish.  What exactly does she ever do if it is not for Cerberus or her sister?

[77boy84]

BattleVisor wrote...

The BS Police wrote...

BattleVisor wrote...

Ashley haters are being so cynical, she really isnt a Xenophobe.

Really? I must have had my earplugs on when she said she wasn't a fan of aliens then.

Exactly, hardly an extreme view is it.

The illusive man, 'With this we will achieve human dominance in the galaxy'

This is extreme xenophobia

Xenophobia is NOT pride in your race, or wanting your race to be the top.

[Valmy]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...
And that is racism

No it is not.  Racism is prejudice against other races of humans.  Xenophobic is prejudice against other species.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

SharpEdgeSoda wrote...

I like women who can kick my ass. I also agree with Ash's hesitance to accept aliens on the Normandy. It IS a state of the art vessel after all, It's logical to want to protect it's secrets.

Besides Tali (who people aren't exactly an opposing government) her hesitance was less logical and more racists, Garrus isn't part of the Turian military and Wrex certainly isn't either.

There is no one to report to and the ship already was designed w/ the Turians. 

And Ash isn't racist, just cautious. She DOES work without issue with the other aliens, and she does respect thier abilities. Ash worked with and complimented the skills of Kirahee's squad. She tells off the Terra Firma party. Ash just wants to see humanity be able to stand on it's own, not be the Council's lap dog. Never once does she want humanity standing above all other life.

None of this means she isn't racist, it just means she isn't as extreme as the other racists. There are differing levels of racism, as we can see with humans. Not all racists want all of the other human races killed off or bowing down to them, some of them rather opt for segregation and other forms of discrimination.

In seems that in order to not be racist in the eyes of many ME players you have to be blindly naive, thinking the "pure paragon, hug everybody" path will not hurt them. 

Yes yes, Paragons are naive and blind blah blah blah. It's like arguing Democrats and Republicans.

[BattleVisor]

Valmy wrote...

BattleVisor wrote...

No its because Bioware purposely doesnt make them exciting, so they dont overshadow Male Shepard.

Look here- for why Kaidan is pansy
>>>>youtube video

Trust me if there was a good looking human male squad member that was also pretty exciting, then he'd become a favourite

Oh come now any military man would answer the same way...especially with his superior officer standing right there.

What a guy cannot be laid back and just a good guy?  He has to be an over-the-top badass?  I didn't realize I was a pansy just because I don't go around fantasizing about fighting everybody.

Theyre both boring pansies nonetheless, unless you show me videos or at least quotes of them saying or doing anything interesting.

What a guy cannot be laid back and just a good guy?

No

Modifié par BattleVisor, 12 février 2010 - 10:06 .

[banshee768]

Valmy wrote...

What I find far more puzzling is that Kaidan and Jacob are so strongly disliked. I mean seriously despised, they are always right at the bottom of any opinion poll. It makes me wonder if good looking guys threaten the male gamers. I didn't think guys were like that so I find it a bit surprising.

I think it has more to do with the fact that if you play a male character, neither Kaidan or Jacob has much to offer. Jacob becomes a 'buddy' with nothing interesting to say at all, no opinions, nothing to add. That his skills are shared with characters with for more, well, character, doesn't help his case.
Kaidan is.. Well, I don't know. From the very first mission he comes across as a whiner, not a soldier. One that wears his feelings outside his suit. While that could be excused if he was a doctor, scientist or counsoler, it doesn't really fit a soldier. And he first time I spoke to him after the first mission, Shepard approached him like there was several novels of unspoken love and passion between them, but neither have had the courage to act on it. First it made me laugh and then it started to get annoying.

[SharpEdgeSoda]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...
 If she was in a firefight protecting a human and an alien, but could only save one, she'd save the human.  But, I could see her laying down her life to try to save an alien, if necessary.

And that is racism

Saving a child over an adult is sensible, saving a person over an animal is sensible.

Saving a human over an alien however, is racism. If both are complete strangers, you shouldn't value the human's life over the non-human.

Uh, okay, so she should save the alien, under the reasoning that if she doesn't, she'll be considered racist? That sort of "politicians" thinking is not how you make a judgment call. I'd save the human too, on instinct, not considering social repercussions. Would you save the alien, just so you could not be racist?

OH, I got it! She lets them both die, then nobody is considered racist.

[Braag]

I actually like Jack.

But I don't like Ash since she's such a racist.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Valmy wrote...

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...
And that is racism

No it is not.  Racism is prejudice against other races of humans.  Xenophobic is prejudice against other species.

By the definitions used in the Mass Effect universe, yes that is racism. Xenophobia/Racism is being used similarly. Lets not nitpick and start arguing semantics.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

SharpEdgeSoda wrote...
Uh, okay, so she should save the alien, under the reasoning that if she doesn't, she'll be considered racist? That sort of "politicians" thinking is not how you make a judgment call. I'd save the human too, on instinct, not considering social repercussions. Would you save the alien, just so you could not be racist?

OH, I got it! She lets them both die, then nobody is considered racist.

She can save whoever, but she shouldn't save the human thinking "This one looks like me!".

If I was in such as situation between two humans I'm not going to consciously decide to save the black over the white. This isn't about being PC, it is about being non-discriminatory by race, in which you claim Ashley is merely being "pragmatic" if she decides to save a human over an alien because she is human.

Modifié par Mikazukinoyaiba2, 12 février 2010 - 10:08 .

[Valmy]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

I stopped liking Ashley as soon as she used her "If you're in a forest and a bear jumps you, and your only choice is to stay and be killed or sic your dog on him and run... well you might love your dog but it isn't human." Dogs=sentient aliens

That was not what she was saying, go back and listen to that conversation again.  She was saying that she could not count on the Turians and others to look after humanity's best interests because they were not human.  They would treat us like the proverbial dog.  That was the metaphor not that humanity should throw Turians to the bears.

Modifié par Valmy, 12 février 2010 - 10:09 .

[Valmy]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

Valmy wrote...

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...
And that is racism

No it is not.  Racism is prejudice against other races of humans.  Xenophobic is prejudice against other species.

By the definitions used in the Mass Effect universe, yes that is racism. Xenophobia/Racism is being used similarly. Lets not nitpick and start arguing semantics.

Racism is just really emotionally charged word.  It is one of the worst things you can call somebody in my book so I find using it here really uncomfortable.  Why go down that road when xenophobic is perfectly descriptive?

[BattleVisor]

77boy84 wrote...

BattleVisor wrote...

The BS Police wrote...

BattleVisor wrote...

Ashley haters are being so cynical, she really isnt a Xenophobe.

Really? I must have had my earplugs on when she said she wasn't a fan of aliens then.

Exactly, hardly an extreme view is it.

The illusive man, 'With this we will achieve human dominance in the galaxy'

This is extreme xenophobia

Xenophobia is NOT pride in your race, or wanting your race to be the top.

you are wrong.

The two arent mutually exclusive and closely related.

[tonecapone13]

I love(d) Ash and missed her in this game, did not care for Jack one bit. The angsty rager foulmouth biotic crazy just doesn't work for me. I was glad after her loyalty mission i could clothe her properly. I did find it a bit odd that Ash was so hurt by shep working w/ Cerebus after hearing about how she felt about aliens at the start of ME1. I get that to her, cerebus = bad from the experiences from ME1, but I was thrown off a bit.

[BattleVisor]

Valmy wrote...

poisonoustea wrote...

Miranda is way more aggressive than Jack imo.
Jack acts out of a defense mechanism, Miranda is just plain selfish.

Ironic that somebody who devotes her entire life to an organization and sacrifices her own life for the safety and happiness of her sister would be seen as selfish.  What exactly does she ever do if it is not for Cerberus or her sister?

She is a bit selfish, especially on her loyalty mission, she never actually considers what her sister wants.

[Kaosu Haze]

I disliked Ashley, liked Jack though.

[shinobi602]

Markinator_123 wrote...

It appears to me that a lot of people dislike the "Tough Girl"...
.

And?

[Sapienti]

Sexists hate "strong women" tough girl types in my opinion. That or the nerds you tend to meet on internet forums. You can't really say there was "such a strong negative reaction" based on a few threads you read on a few forums. Like other characters people just hate them love them or tolerate them. Ashley might get a bit more hate for her initial alien disliking. But I see a lot of fans of her and even more Jack fans.



And you don't have to sort by just fans and haters. There are plenty of people who just think characters are cool and stay neutral. Just because people aren't fawning over these characters like the Tali freaks tend to doesn't mean they're vastly disliked. As for why they are disliked, there are a myriad of reasons. Some of them are as shallow as "dislike the tough girl" attitude. Others are valid reasons

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Valmy wrote...

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

Valmy wrote...

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...
And that is racism

No it is not.  Racism is prejudice against other races of humans.  Xenophobic is prejudice against other species.

By the definitions used in the Mass Effect universe, yes that is racism. Xenophobia/Racism is being used similarly. Lets not nitpick and start arguing semantics.

Racism is just really emotionally charged word.  It is one of the worst things you can call somebody in my book so I find using it here really uncomfortable.  Why go down that road when xenophobic is perfectly descriptive?

Well the point is to use the word that is more emotionally disturbing to shame people. Using a less powerful word would take away from it, unless being called a xenophobe stirs the exact same feelings.

But it seems "racist" is the term referred, as stated by a certain Turian "You humans are all racist!".