248 réponses à ce sujet

[mrfett]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Jack is ridiculous, though. Typical scumbag who blames social conditions and determinism/predestination for his/her problems instead of his/her choices. Being abused and tortured isn't a license to break laws.

Upbringing is important, but it's still simply a weight on outcome, not a key stone. Shepard can be Earthborn and Ruthless but still can manage to be a paragon, after all.

Don't see this at ALL. Jack is out for revenge on Cerberous. What's wrong with that? She's making the choice to not get too close to people, although she tries religion once and realizes it's full of the same hypocrites as everywhere else. She's not relying on anyone but herself. Don't see how she's a "typical scumbag" unless you are just really anti-criminal (which I hope is who you are blanketing with that term).

My biggest problem with Jack is that she doesn't want to join the "Girls Club". Totally lame. My problem with Ashley is she looks too butch. Strange how I think Jack is totally hot though 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Jack = psychopath. Sorry. I don't mess with psychopaths. I say "okay" and get away from them as soon as possible. She's the sacrifice if anyone. But being as she's so powerful you want her on your side. But I don't fault Jack for being who she is. She got twisted. Twisted by the people you're working for. Very complex character, but in the end a psychopath.
Miranda = blind loyalty. the smile looked too fixed. but deep down she's a good person. I think my Paragon is high enough to peacefully resolve the dispute.
Samara = well, she's a Templar. Samurai. Funny they picked that name.
Gianna Parsini = I agree this is one tough woman. I like her character, and I'd like to see more of her in ME3, but I don't see how she'd fit except in another bit part.
Ashley = soldier. She doesn't get paid to see the big picture. Just do her job. Too bad there was the falling out.
Tali = I liked the way they developed her character a lot more. I found her on the annoying side in ME1. As Wrex said, if you want stories talk to the Quarian

And then there is "We are Geth." We are Legion.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 12 février 2010 - 11:16 .

[Marilynn-22]

I don't know why alot of people don't like Jack. I think Jack is the coolest badass on your squad, and she has a deep troubled past, which makes sense why she turned out the way she did.



I think most of the people who don't like Jack are people who feel threated by her personality, if Jack doesn't like something she'll make it clear, she isn't afraid of the consequences of her actions.

But this is just my opinion, its a game afterall. Not everyone is going to have the same PERSONALITY.



The Universe has diversity

[DuffyMJ]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Pauravi wrote...

Valmy wrote...

The fact is, she never said that.  She said the aliens would sacrifice the humans and they should not be trusted.

It isn't just that, though.  She makes quite a few random comments, like, "I can't tell the aliens from the animals", and other such insensitive things.  In ME2 she says straight up that she isn't a fan of aliens.  I'm not saying that she is genocidal or even outwardly hostile to aliens, but she does have a humans-first attitude instead of simply treating each of them as an individual person.  This seems undeniable to me.

Abraham Lincoln said "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people"

and then went on to prosecute a war that (legally, at least) freed over 9 million men women and children in the U.S.

People tend not to be perfect enlightened baby lambs who constantly say the perfect thing at the perfect time.  By sacrificing herself to destroy the Virmire genophage cure/indoctrination lab or by joining the mutiny of the Normandy and going on the suicide mission to Ilos/battle of the Citadel, Ashely's actions speak much louder than some ridiculous off-hand remark she made on her very first visit to a non-human place with lots of aliens (normally on crap cushy assignments like eden prime).

Indeed.

When did Lincoln say that, btw?

It says it's from the Lincoln-Douglas debates, which I think were a couple years before he ran for president.

[gneissguy2003]

Why does everyone think Jack is a psychopath? Let me guess. You all went over to the ME2 website, looked at the squad page, saw her listed as a "Psychopath" and immediately decided not to investigate for yourself. She is no psychopath, people. She's an abused individual who, due to her experiences, decided a long time ago that she either looked out for her own well being or else she was going to end up dead. That's all. And you know what? She's right... at least in the context of her own life.

[Markinator_123]

Marilynn-22 wrote...

I don't know why alot of people don't like Jack. I think Jack is the coolest badass on your squad, and she has a deep troubled past, which makes sense why she turned out the way she did.

I think most of the people who don't like Jack are people who feel threated by her personality, if Jack doesn't like something she'll make it clear, she isn't afraid of the consequences of her actions.
But this is just my opinion, its a game afterall. Not everyone is going to have the same PERSONALITY.

The Universe has diversity

Yes, you have to have characters to love and hate

[Exile Isan]

BattleVisor wrote...
Theyre both boring pansies nonetheless, unless you show me videos or at least quotes of them saying or doing anything interesting.

"A big gun and a confident attitude will get you through a lot in life." ~Kaidan Alenko.

[Nightwriter]

I just think some people are too easily put off, period.  

[BARRAGE 74]

I liked Ash.  Jack was just too psycho for my taste.  I could easily see her becoming an enemy

[gneissguy2003]

Nightwriter wrote...

I just think some people are too easily put off, period.  

Agreed.

[Markinator_123]

Nightwriter wrote...

I just think some people are too easily put off, period.  

Hey! First impressions are big you know lol

[JedTed]

I like women who aren't afraid to speak their mind.



I used to be indifferent to Jack but after i played the game i saw she wasn't as one-sided as she was portrayed in the trailer.

[DuffyMJ]

mrfett wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Jack is ridiculous, though. Typical scumbag who blames social conditions and determinism/predestination for his/her problems instead of his/her choices. Being abused and tortured isn't a license to break laws.

Upbringing is important, but it's still simply a weight on outcome, not a key stone. Shepard can be Earthborn and Ruthless but still can manage to be a paragon, after all.

Don't see this at ALL. Jack is out for revenge on Cerberous. What's wrong with that? She's making the choice to not get too close to people, although she tries religion once and realizes it's full of the same hypocrites as everywhere else. She's not relying on anyone but herself. Don't see how she's a "typical scumbag" unless you are just really anti-criminal (which I hope is who you are blanketing with that term).

My biggest problem with Jack is that she doesn't want to join the "Girls Club". Totally lame. My problem with Ashley is she looks too butch. Strange how I think Jack is totally hot though 

I work in corrections, and I wouldn't call myself anti-criminal per say, just anti-people who don't take responsibility for their actions.  Some prisoners know what they did was wrong and acknowledge their bad decisions and even go back to the community during parole and try to join organizations to prevent kids from making the same mistakes they did.  Those are admirable people.  Not so admirable people are those who blame society or blame mom and dad.  Even if it was society's fault or mom and dad's fault, they alone made the decisions to hurt people, no one held a gun to their head. 

If that Quarian on the Citadel could live in the Turian shelter or that Quarian on Omega could eek out a living selling scrapped parts but being an otherwise decent kid in a hive of villainy and mercenaries, then Jack should have been more than capable of doing something good and productive with her life with her natural biotic talents.  Instead, though, she hurts people, kills and wears trophies for her kills on her body, and dwells on vengence.

[Ooga600]

I didn't romance Ashley in ME 1, and meeting her in ME 2 made me want a renegade "interrupt" event to punch her, then she and Khalisah Al-Jilani can go cry in a corner while trying to make me look bad.

Modifié par Ooga600, 12 février 2010 - 11:29 .

[Ooga600]

or even shoot her in the face

Modifié par Ooga600, 12 février 2010 - 11:28 .

[DuffyMJ]

gneissguy2003 wrote...

Why does everyone think Jack is a psychopath? Let me guess. You all went over to the ME2 website, looked at the squad page, saw her listed as a "Psychopath" and immediately decided not to investigate for yourself. She is no psychopath, people. She's an abused individual who, due to her experiences, decided a long time ago that she either looked out for her own well being or else she was going to end up dead. That's all. And you know what? She's right... at least in the context of her own life.

She's not right in the context of her own life, though.  She could have joined the Alliance like Earthborn Shepard did. 

[mrfett]

DuffyMJ wrote...

By sacrificing herself to destroy the Virmire genophage cure/indoctrination lab or by joining the mutiny of the Normandy and going on the suicide mission to Ilos/battle of the Citadel, Ashely's actions speak much louder than some ridiculous off-hand remark she made on her very first visit to a non-human place with lots of aliens (normally on crap cushy assignments like eden prime).

See OK if you feel this way about Ashley, then you should see that it's the same with Jack. I had Jack be the biotic who held the shield wall against the swarms. I gave her that specifically to see if she could rise to the occasion and do something self-less for her team, and she came through it with flying colors. I was really proud of her, and so pissed I couldn't nail her (I play a femShep).

[77boy84]

DuffyMJ wrote...

mrfett wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Jack is ridiculous, though. Typical scumbag who blames social conditions and determinism/predestination for his/her problems instead of his/her choices. Being abused and tortured isn't a license to break laws.

Upbringing is important, but it's still simply a weight on outcome, not a key stone. Shepard can be Earthborn and Ruthless but still can manage to be a paragon, after all.

Don't see this at ALL. Jack is out for revenge on Cerberous. What's wrong with that? She's making the choice to not get too close to people, although she tries religion once and realizes it's full of the same hypocrites as everywhere else. She's not relying on anyone but herself. Don't see how she's a "typical scumbag" unless you are just really anti-criminal (which I hope is who you are blanketing with that term).

My biggest problem with Jack is that she doesn't want to join the "Girls Club". Totally lame. My problem with Ashley is she looks too butch. Strange how I think Jack is totally hot though 

I work in corrections, and I wouldn't call myself anti-criminal per say, just anti-people who don't take responsibility for their actions.  Some prisoners know what they did was wrong and acknowledge their bad decisions and even go back to the community during parole and try to join organizations to prevent kids from making the same mistakes they did.  Those are admirable people.  Not so admirable people are those who blame society or blame mom and dad.  Even if it was society's fault or mom and dad's fault, they alone made the decisions to hurt people, no one held a gun to their head. 

If that Quarian on the Citadel could live in the Turian shelter or that Quarian on Omega could eek out a living selling scrapped parts but being an otherwise decent kid in a hive of villainy and mercenaries, then Jack should have been more than capable of doing something good and productive with her life with her natural biotic talents.  Instead, though, she hurts people, kills and wears trophies for her kills on her body, and dwells on vengence.

From an early age, not only was she tortured and abused, but she was trained to fight other kids.

At one point, you can't say "It's her fault for not being good!" because it's not her fault. If someone is raised by their parents to hate something, and they hate it as an adult, it's not their fault for hating it. It's the parents' fault for teaching them that. Jack didn't have anyone to teach her right from wrong, because the people raising her where trying to turn her into a biotic monster.

[IceSavage]

Character flaws make people interesting in games like these. Miranda considering herself a tool/construction. Jack being made into a killer. Mordin working on the genophage, and having to live with the consequences of that. Even grunt is interesting because he is just coming into his own as a person.



I dont like Tali or Garrus too much because of the fact that they are rather one dimensional. Tali is a Migrant Fleet 'princess'. Other then that the rest of her back story encompasses quarians as a whole. IE build the geth, I don't see what drives her or rather how her drive is a little unique from the rest of the quarians, thus she is rather boring. Sweet but boring.



Garrus is the "bad" cop that goes a bit to the extreme. It is never explained why he has to be such a rules break beyond the usual "red tape" re-hash that every cop movie has done.



Thane is a bit cliched to as the dying assassin that has to make things right.

[Doug84]

I liked Ashley, but hated Jack. Btw, Jack isn't a 'tough girl' personally, she's an ****. And very childish about it too.

[Gilsa]

My only issue was Ashley was that I had to tell her a few times to "stand down." I didn't begrudge her the views on aliens since there were other races who didn't trust humans in return so it made sense for gameplay. I just had the vibe that Ashley would take matters in her own hands and override my orders, but I couldn't quite put my finger on how. I later saw a youtube video where this guy didn't do Wrex's mission nor did he have intimidation/charm checks for Virmire so while Shepard is talking to Wrex, trying to talk him down, Ashley shoots Wrex down from a distance without permission. Just like that. I was floored that such a scenario existed. So that really hit the nail on why I wasn't digging Ashley as much. If any of my other squadmates did that, I'd have gone bat**** on them.



I like Jack a lot. I'm only frustrated with her in the sense that in my first two playthroughs, I was half paragon/half renegade and fully paragon with Jack with no real payoff from her, even after doing her loyalty missions and having her tag along in my groups often. Her attitude didn't improve whenever I visited her. This is probably because Shepard is a female and the male just gets more out of Jack as a result of the romance option. I plan on being full-on renegade in the third run with Jack because maybe that is the language she responds to better. Krogans appreciate renegade language so maybe Jack does, too. Dunno.

[Dark Glasses]

I like when Shepard is "Tough Girl".

[mrfett]

DuffyMJ wrote...
I work in corrections

OMFG how crazy, I was thinking to myself either this guy is a cop or a prison guard. Crazy how our own experiences influence how we see life (and even video game characters' lives) , right? Thanks for sharing that, it makes your posts a lot more understandable. I don't envy you your job. Can't be easy to deal with so much human drama.

[DariusKalera]

77boy84 wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

mrfett wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Jack is ridiculous, though. Typical scumbag who blames social conditions and determinism/predestination for his/her problems instead of his/her choices. Being abused and tortured isn't a license to break laws.

Upbringing is important, but it's still simply a weight on outcome, not a key stone. Shepard can be Earthborn and Ruthless but still can manage to be a paragon, after all.

Don't see this at ALL. Jack is out for revenge on Cerberous. What's wrong with that? She's making the choice to not get too close to people, although she tries religion once and realizes it's full of the same hypocrites as everywhere else. She's not relying on anyone but herself. Don't see how she's a "typical scumbag" unless you are just really anti-criminal (which I hope is who you are blanketing with that term).

My biggest problem with Jack is that she doesn't want to join the "Girls Club". Totally lame. My problem with Ashley is she looks too butch. Strange how I think Jack is totally hot though 

I work in corrections, and I wouldn't call myself anti-criminal per say, just anti-people who don't take responsibility for their actions.  Some prisoners know what they did was wrong and acknowledge their bad decisions and even go back to the community during parole and try to join organizations to prevent kids from making the same mistakes they did.  Those are admirable people.  Not so admirable people are those who blame society or blame mom and dad.  Even if it was society's fault or mom and dad's fault, they alone made the decisions to hurt people, no one held a gun to their head. 

If that Quarian on the Citadel could live in the Turian shelter or that Quarian on Omega could eek out a living selling scrapped parts but being an otherwise decent kid in a hive of villainy and mercenaries, then Jack should have been more than capable of doing something good and productive with her life with her natural biotic talents.  Instead, though, she hurts people, kills and wears trophies for her kills on her body, and dwells on vengence.

From an early age, not only was she tortured and abused, but she was trained to fight other kids.

At one point, you can't say "It's her fault for not being good!" because it's not her fault. If someone is raised by their parents to hate something, and they hate it as an adult, it's not their fault for hating it. It's the parents' fault for teaching them that. Jack didn't have anyone to teach her right from wrong, because the people raising her where trying to turn her into a biotic monster.

At some point though, it is still her choice. 

There are kids that grow up being taught how to hate others by their parents and while some embrace that hate and end up beliving as their parents do, others decide to make thier own choices and decisions about how they want to live thier life.

Many kids are abused b their parents and some of those kids grow up to be abusers themselves, other grow up and decide that they will never treat someone how they were treated.

Jack probably did have choices after she escaped, but she was too focused on herself and how everything was all about her to stop and consider that she did have other options than just the hate she always spewed.

BTW, I like Ashley alot better than Jack.

[DuffyMJ]

77boy84 wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

mrfett wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Jack is ridiculous, though. Typical scumbag who blames social conditions and determinism/predestination for his/her problems instead of his/her choices. Being abused and tortured isn't a license to break laws.

Upbringing is important, but it's still simply a weight on outcome, not a key stone. Shepard can be Earthborn and Ruthless but still can manage to be a paragon, after all.

Don't see this at ALL. Jack is out for revenge on Cerberous. What's wrong with that? She's making the choice to not get too close to people, although she tries religion once and realizes it's full of the same hypocrites as everywhere else. She's not relying on anyone but herself. Don't see how she's a "typical scumbag" unless you are just really anti-criminal (which I hope is who you are blanketing with that term).

My biggest problem with Jack is that she doesn't want to join the "Girls Club". Totally lame. My problem with Ashley is she looks too butch. Strange how I think Jack is totally hot though 

I work in corrections, and I wouldn't call myself anti-criminal per say, just anti-people who don't take responsibility for their actions.  Some prisoners know what they did was wrong and acknowledge their bad decisions and even go back to the community during parole and try to join organizations to prevent kids from making the same mistakes they did.  Those are admirable people.  Not so admirable people are those who blame society or blame mom and dad.  Even if it was society's fault or mom and dad's fault, they alone made the decisions to hurt people, no one held a gun to their head. 

If that Quarian on the Citadel could live in the Turian shelter or that Quarian on Omega could eek out a living selling scrapped parts but being an otherwise decent kid in a hive of villainy and mercenaries, then Jack should have been more than capable of doing something good and productive with her life with her natural biotic talents.  Instead, though, she hurts people, kills and wears trophies for her kills on her body, and dwells on vengence.

From an early age, not only was she tortured and abused, but she was trained to fight other kids.

At one point, you can't say "It's her fault for not being good!" because it's not her fault. If someone is raised by their parents to hate something, and they hate it as an adult, it's not their fault for hating it. It's the parents' fault for teaching them that. Jack didn't have anyone to teach her right from wrong, because the people raising her where trying to turn her into a biotic monster.

It's not their fault as children, no, but it is their fault once they are old enough to think for themselves and sustain their own living expenses.  There's no excuse for hate crime from someone who is old enough to read Martin Luther King Jr.'s speeches or Malcom X's book or Langston Hughes or Fredrick Douglas, WEB DuBois, etc.  If your mom dies of breast cancer while you're a little kid, is it your mom's fault that you didn't have 2 parents telling you not to smoke crack and so you ended up experimenting and becoming an addict as a teen?  No.  It's your own decision. 

Jack was experimented upon and abused, and once off on her own engaged in a dangerous self-destructive lifestyle on her own free will.  Maybe instead of joining a cult she should have joined the system's alliance or helped L2 biotics receive repirations or something.