248 réponses à ce sujet

[smudboy]

I never really understood Jack. I don't think the writers did, either. Heck, I don't think Jack understands Jack.  The designer started drawing her, and never stopped.  So Jack is really just a visual character, no real meat to deal with.  Even her Loyalty mission seemed a bit odd.  Would a violent, hateful, instinctual killer really care about some old building from her painful childhood?  And why would TIM think this is a good idea to have 1) someone who completely hates Cerberus, 2) unstable, 3) violent, 4) can rip YMIR's apart (in cutscenes) like paper, on the brand new ship he just built?

Jack is not a psychopath. Now, if we got one of those, that would be interesting.

In her recruitment mission, the warden describes her as "the meanest handful of violence and hate" he's ever encountered. "Dangerous, crazy and very powerful."

And, like a few others on board the Normandy, she gets cut up via RPG cliche #140.

I think there was a great opportunity to see some Kelly-therapist action here, because our straight-man Shepard couldn't help this messed up girl at all (but he did.)  And romance?  Give me a break.

Modifié par smudboy, 13 février 2010 - 02:07 .

[Nightwriter]

I think you have a lack of appreciation for what she went through, Duffy. Not just at the Cerberus facility, but afterward, and in Purgatory.

It's easy to sit in judgment when the high ground is all you've ever known. Plus, it seemed like Jack hurt others like herself, criminals and such. She never hurt innocents that I know of. Destroyed property, sure.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 13 février 2010 - 01:58 .

[gneissguy2003]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

When it comes to Jack’s behavior, there isn’t so much there to excuse as there is to understand.
 
Jack’s past is not a justification for her actions – it’s an explanation for them. All our pasts are. An explanation can mean much more than an excuse, and it does, for me. I really do understand why she is the way she is.

Unfortunately touchy-feely "understanding people" is not an option once someone commits to taking other peoples' lives, blowing up other peoples' property and other such horrors.  Lawyers are hated in criminal justice circles is for that very reason... they defend the right of people who murder/rob/rape others while simultaneously trying to discredit the rights of the victims...

Defense lawyers are hated because they have to take on the infinitely difficult task of not being emotional and trying to give their client the benefit of the doubt when they say "I didn't do it" when everyone else takes the easy path of assuming instant guilt. They're hated because they have to fight an uphill battle for someone who is possibly innocent while the world screams for blood. I have no envy for defense lawyers and what they have chosen to do. And while I believe all criminals deserve to be brought to justice, I am not so naive as to believe that our system of law has never falsely accused someone and wrongfully executed them.

[nitefyre410]

Valmy wrote...

BattleVisor wrote...
What evidence was there to say her father was insane at all, we never heard his side of the story

The fact he would hire a team of murderous group of unscrupulous mercenaries like the Eclipse to kidnap a perfectly happy teenage girl?   You know, the group that requires each of its members to commit a murder before they are allowed to join up? 

Even if you presume that everything Miranda already said was complete fabrications.

 


 You also forgot  that  he  cloned his daughters from his on  X and Y   Chromosomes.. 

[Looper128]

I dont like Ashly because shes racist ;o

[KPnuts123]

I actually like both Ash and Jack as characters. they both come across as superficial at first but the more you talk to them the more you understand their tough girl attitude. Ash has been fighting against the predjudice her family has suffered since her grandfather surrendered in the first contact war. Whereas Jack has been abused as a child and as such has thrown up all these barriers to stop people getting close to her and also so she doesn't get close to others.



If you actually take the time to talk to them and understand what they have gone through during their lives it's understandable that their attitudes are like they are. That being said both characters are fairly deep and they do both soften towards Shepard. You just have to take the time for this this to happen.



Both characters use their views as their barriers to people getting to know them but can let thier guard down slowly towards you but if you ****** them off they will throw them back up quickly.

[DarthCaine]

Jack's one of my most favorite characters in ME2

I liked Ashley more than Liara, but I romanced Liara 'cos it fits more with Redemption (though I think they were both boring)

[Giantevilhead]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

When it comes to Jack’s behavior, there isn’t so much there to excuse as there is to understand.
 
Jack’s past is not a justification for her actions – it’s an explanation for them. All our pasts are. An explanation can mean much more than an excuse, and it does, for me. I really do understand why she is the way she is.

Unfortunately touchy-feely "understanding people" is not an option once someone commits to taking other peoples' lives, blowing up other peoples' property and other such horrors.  Lawyers are hated in criminal justice circles is for that very reason... they defend the right of people who murder/rob/rape others while simultaneously trying to discredit the rights of the victims...

You do know that our legal system presumes innocence don't you?

[DarthCaine]

Lopper128 wrote...

I dont like Ashly because shes racist ;o

You can change her views

[Knightfly]

I love Ashley, great well developed & complicated character and easily my favourite character in ME1 & just hope they do her justice in ME3 as a squadmate once again *wink* *wink* Bioware. Jack on the other hand is somebody I disklike from the start, maybe its her look/dress sense(or lack of it) or maybe its her voice or her attitude or a mix of all that but I am just put off by her.

I know Ashley is tough and a love or hate her type but Bioware created for me one of the best female female characters in any videogame I've played and had a great chemistry with Shepard and love her dialogue, her voice, her personality, the way she looks . She represents for me the perfect blend of what say an female action character should be like, beautiful but not tarty, tough not oh my fingernail broke, ain't afraid to say whatever the gorram she feels like but also has a nice and warm side to her you see if you take the time to get to know her and find out who she really is or why she acts cetain ways and really isn't all as negative and bad as everybody seems to think.  Some people might dislike her for her rudeness/obnoxious attitude, racist views towards aliens, or even her religious beliefs, most of which I can understand I guess but I love she's complicated and tough on the outside, paints a more realistic character. Tough on the outside, a sweetheart on the insde.

Modifié par Knightfly, 13 février 2010 - 03:28 .

[mrfett]

BattleVisor wrote...

PS: Any guy who plays mainly as femshep is weird

riiight... and creating male characters so you can stare at their asses for 30 hrs is totally hetero...

:innocent:

[Cutlass Jack]

Lopper128 wrote...

I dont like Ashly because shes racist ;o

Anyone who thinks this probably didn't bring her along to talk to Charles Saracino and the Terra Firma Party during the Citadel Lockdown in ME1.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Lopper128 wrote...

I dont like Ashly because shes racist ;o

Anyone who thinks this probably didn't bring her along to talk to Charles Saracino and the Terra Firma Party during the Citadel Lockdown in ME1.

I did and I still think she is a racist, just not a genocidal one.

[T0paze]

Well, I sent Ashley to her death on Virmire in ME1. First, Lt. Kaidan Alenko was more valuable, as an officer and as a biotic. Second, I didn't care much for her xenophobic attitude.

As for Jack, I don't really see her as a person or, at least, a grown-up. She is basically a product of her past, to the extent that doesn't really leave much free choice. There's probably no crime that she hasn't committed, but it would be kinda wrong to judge her personally; in fact, she needs an intensive psychotherapy course (in a close facility, of course). Interestingly, Thane is also a criminal, an assassin, but he seems to be infinitely more noble and reliable. Jack certainly deserves sympathy, but I'd rather not have her on my team. Come to think of it, I'd rather not recruit someone from the Purgatory Prison in the first place, so I think that decision was kinda forced on the players.

Modifié par T0paze, 13 février 2010 - 03:51 .

[Jackal904]

smudboy wrote...

I never really understood Jack. I don't think the writers did, either. Heck, I don't think Jack understands Jack.  The designer started drawing her, and never stopped.  So Jack is really just a visual character, no real meat to deal with.  Even her Loyalty mission seemed a bit odd.  Would a violent, hateful, instinctual killer really care about some old building from her painful childhood?  And why would TIM think this is a good idea to have 1) someone who completely hates Cerberus, 2) unstable, 3) violent, 4) can rip YMIR's apart (in cutscenes) like paper, on the brand new ship he just built?

Jack is not a psychopath. Now, if we got one of those, that would be interesting.

In her recruitment mission, the warden describes her as "the meanest handful of violence and hate" he's ever encountered. "Dangerous, crazy and very powerful."

And, like a few others on board the Normandy, she gets cut up via RPG cliche #140.

I think there was a great opportunity to see some Kelly-therapist action here, because our straight-man Shepard couldn't help this messed up girl at all (but he did.)  And romance?  Give me a break.

Did you even talk to Jack besides asking her about her loyalty mission? Obviously you didn't because then you would know she has far more depth to her than Miranda, who is also far my cliche than Jack. I don't even see how Jack is cliche. Where else have you seen some crazy, violent telekinetic chick? The developers even said they created Miranda to be like a bond girl. So please know what you are talking about k thx.

Modifié par Jackal904, 13 février 2010 - 03:49 .

[Hurbster]

I was annoyed I couldn't just talk to Jack with as a friend. She would not even talk unless I broke it off with Tali, so I just didnt bother to talk to her again.

[imnar]

initially i liked ash...then as the game went on...i was annoyed by her xenophobia...so i lett her take one for the team on virmire...jack, on the other hand grew on me...i was even tempted to romance her and "cheat" on liara...because by end game...jack is on the level of garrus...someone that has no where else to go...someone that sees shepard as the only person they can trust in the entire galaxy...they both would die or kill for shepard...no questions asked...

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Not enough testosterone in here I see, to bad they're not femshep/friendly.

[Jackal904]

imnar wrote...

initially i liked ash...then as the game went on...i was annoyed by her xenophobia...so i lett her take one for the team on virmire...jack, on the other hand grew on me...i was even tempted to romance her and "cheat" on liara...because by end game...jack is on the level of garrus...someone that has no where else to go...someone that sees shepard as the only person they can trust in the entire galaxy...they both would die or kill for shepard...no questions asked...

Ya you know she doesn't have anything, especially if you talk to her often. And you get this desire to help her because you feel bad for her. You want to let her know that she can let her past go and that she doesn't have to be so protective. That's what makes Jack a very deep character, unlike Miranda who is basically generic action movie/game female #523425, who just complains that her daddy made her perfect, what an **** right?

[Conway044]

Ash - didn't like the xenophobia, didn't like her lack of proper military discipline, (a Chief should set a better example), hated the random poetry quotes, she had a few random quotes that seemed cruel and/or childish.



Biggest problem is she is willing to shoot Wrex in the back. If Wrex wants to betray the mission he still has earned the right to be shot in the face. Wrex wouldn't shoot Shep in the back and I respect that.

[Wakara Pezi]

Tough girl’s rock!    And I love my fem shep!

Modifié par Wakara Pezi, 13 février 2010 - 04:00 .

[Mondo47]

Ashley... meh, I just got tired of her harping on about how anything other than a human seemed to belong in a zoo. Coming from the girl in raspberry-ripple armour... yeah, totally going to take you seriously. That was the only aspect of her I seriously disliked, even by the end of the game you'd barely dented her causal xenophobia.

Jack though... what wasn't there to love? Every time she wound up Miranda I got a little warm feeling inside. Joker thought Garrus had a stick up his ass... jeez, Miranda's was engineered in there I think

[Kilo Trip]

Jack has to try way too hard to come off as hardcore with the bald head and tats and trash talking BS. I REALLY wish you could have chosen to attack her during the recruitment.

Ashley is just a thick-headed, xenophobic, obnoxious grunt that doesn't know when to cut the chatter. Pink armor? Really?

As a renegade player, Shepard is truly hardcore and can recognize these traits in characters like Wrex, Garrus, Zaeed, and Thane. I had no respect for Ash or Jack, and don't believe they belong on the Normandy.

I am glad they'reDEAD.

[asaiasai]

Jack imho reminds me a perpetual teenager stuck in the "my life is over" moment because they have a 23:00 curfew, complete with the door slamming bull****. Her loyalty mission was most annoying, not so much what it entailed, but in the fact that i had to listen to Jack whine for 45 minutes. The truest measure of character is not where you came from but how you deal with where you are.



Asai

[Bedlam66]

I LOVE Jack She's Awesome. Ash on the other hand is a racist ****. Luckily for me She never seems to make it out of ME1 Alive on any of my chars.