248 réponses à ce sujet

[Not_Gabe]

Ash is nice. I would have chosen her over Liara, but the game thinks that being just a friendly dude means you are leading them on, so in ME2 I saw a pic of Liara prior to the suicide mission.

I don't really mind tough girl personalities. I just don't like that Jack is an emo teenager-- I thought there would be a Breakfast Club moment with Miranda  in the Suicide mission-- let's not forget she is  CRAZY.

Minus the xenophobia, Ashley is cool. 

[Dzikv]

My femshep is a tough girl. And they don't like competition.

[Madriker]

Have nothing against the tough girl persona, it's one of the reasons I like female Shepard so much. I don't have a problem with Jack, but Ash just annoys me...

[Haasth]

I just find neither of them very interesting. Can't say I like tough-girl acts much either, no.

[kaotician]

I love 'em.

[Taritu]

It's not about tough. Jack's constant swearing and attitude irritates me. Her assumption that my femshep was trying to get into her pants really pissed me off too (mostly because there's no dialogue option to tell her off.)

And it's not even really about tough.  I like action heroes who don't do the whole macho BS.  Samara cold confidence is much more "tough" to me.

I liked Ashley, just not as much as I liked Kaidan, unfortunately for her.

Modifié par Taritu, 13 février 2010 - 12:06 .

[shiny mc shine]

I wanted to date moridin

[Nhani]

Taritu wrote...
I liked Ashley, just not as much as I liked Kaidan, unfortunately for her.

Yes, indeed. If there'd been a way to keep both Ash and Kaidan around, I'd pick it - I really liked Ash myself, even though I tend to be a tad more idealistic and naive than her. Some of the poetry quotes seemed to go on just a taaad too long for my liking, but I liked her and was perfectly happy with striking up some kind of friendship with her. Having to leave her on Virmire was a tough choice. I didn't mind Ash having trust issues when it came to Aliens either - she definitely had a point how in an Us or Them situation, most people, be they humans or aliens or whatever, will pick Us, with the variables largely being which one is the Us and which one is the Them in any select situation.

Jack, on the other hand, I don't like - she just rubs me the entirely wrong way. I can see what they were going for with her character, and I could find some sympathy for what she'd been through and how she was kindof damaged goods, but I don't and will never approve of her way of venting it. There's something about Jack that just reminds me far too much of angry Teenager for me to be able to stomach her presence for long. I still did my best to keep her alive, mind, because it'd be unprofessional and hypocritical of me not to, but that doesn't mean I had to like her.

[DigitalBrute]

Well Bioware have done there job then, they stated they wanted to create characters that you'd love and that you'd hate.

[Nhani]

DigitalBrute wrote...
Well Bioware have done there job then, they stated they wanted to create characters that you'd love and that you'd hate.

This, definitely. I do rather like it's not just a lineup of faceless yes-men who cater to my every opinion and whim, so long as I'm within my rights to think some of them are wrong or indeed barely tolerable wretched cretins.

I'd actually say I think BioWare has done a good job with Jack, because if they hadn't she'd be more likely to earn my apathy rather than my ire.

[SteelEagleShane]

AShley was xenophobic, but that didn't bother me. Didn't agree, but I wasn't asking for her to like her crewmates. Beyond that, her family history was realistic enough and generally I approved.

Jack, I dislike her clothing and tattoos and a personality that tried so hard that it was predictable. There was so much about her that seemed to be obvious from the start, and, well, it was. It never really bothered me because she was my least favorite character anyway so after I knew everything I cared to know, I considered her and her little hidey hole to be outside the realm of my ship.

[GodWood]

Jack had the sexiest personality.

[trueKieran]

Markinator_123 wrote...

Ashley Williams is key example of a "tough girl" personality. She is blunt, aggressive, undisciplined, and not afraid to showcase her prejudices (especially considering her idiotic statements like- "I tell the aliens from the animals"). Many people seem to find these traits of her personality obnoxious and repulsive and therefore do not like her. While I may also not like Ashley, I believe that since Ashley has a generally strong reaction to her, negative or positive , Bioware may have created a very successful character.

She sure is all of that, I don't really see what blunt and aggressive have to do with "tough" though. While a tough person may have all those characteristics, it's not that what makes that person tough I'd say. Was the reason for me not liking her very much the fact that she wore thicker armor than my char (infiltrator)? If you think so.... personally I think it rather had to do with her attitude towards aliens and some of my favourite crew members (Garrus and Tali) being aliens, or her stupidity and shortsightedness in general aswell as the fact that I was almost forced into romancing her because I had already declined Liara. Poetry alone can't compensate for that. As far as I'm concerned, the only other thing good about her was that she looked like Jennifer Rubin in Screamers, just with different hairstyle.

Modifié par trueKieran, 13 février 2010 - 01:17 .

[MutantSpleen]

Ash was fine.  Some people need to check thier definitions of racist. She was firmly against things like the Terra Firma political party and Cerberus.   She mistrusted aliens as she thought their true loyalties would be to their own species first. That's not really an extreme position. Especially in light of the fact that she was in the Alliance on an Alliance warship.  Nations today don't let people from other countries have free reign on their military ships, I guess they are racist.  People on this board act like she was burning Turians at the stake in the cargo hold.

Jack is a product of her environment, plain and simple. She was raised in a lab and was taught to fight and kill from childhood and rewarded with narcotics when she did well.  Not too hard to see that would produce a pretty messed up person. Her tough girl, is her shield. A shield she had to develop to survive since she has been on the run from Cerberus since she was a little girl.  Jack is what, early twenties? She did most of these things as a teenager, who are known for their abundance of wisdom. 

Modifié par MutantSpleen, 13 février 2010 - 01:21 .

[TyDurden13]

Well, I didn't like Ashley, but I liked Jack quite a bit.

[Leyt22]

I disliked Jack's constant claims of superiority--challenging me to try to take her down when recruiting her, and so on. Like, ****, I've got a goddamn Krogan with a overly powerful shotgun and a raging badass of a mercenary who is just fine with watching dozens of people burn, on top of my aura of godliness. And you think we can't take your ass out?



Yes, she did just blow through 11ty heavy mechs, but Grunt...I don't know.

[trueKieran]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Ash was fine.  Some people need to check thier definitions of racist. She was firmly against things like the Terra Firma political party and Cerberus.   She mistrusted aliens as she thought their true loyalties would be to their own species first. That's not really an extreme position. Especially in light of the fact that she was in the Alliance on an Alliance warship.  Nations today don't let people from other countries have free reign on their military ships, I guess they are racist.  People on this board act like she was burning Turians at the stake in the cargo hold.

Yeah right, she was eager to tell my Shep on Horizon that she wasn't such a racist like him to work with Cerberus... while Garrus and Mordin stood right behind him.

Modifié par trueKieran, 13 février 2010 - 01:58 .

[Errol Dnamyx]

Ashs mistrust towards aliens was the thing i liked most about her. My Shep doesnt like most of them either.



Ash > all

[smudboy]

Jackal904 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

I never really understood Jack. I don't think the writers did, either. Heck, I don't think Jack understands Jack.  The designer started drawing her, and never stopped.  So Jack is really just a visual character, no real meat to deal with.  Even her Loyalty mission seemed a bit odd.  Would a violent, hateful, instinctual killer really care about some old building from her painful childhood?  And why would TIM think this is a good idea to have 1) someone who completely hates Cerberus, 2) unstable, 3) violent, 4) can rip YMIR's apart (in cutscenes) like paper, on the brand new ship he just built?

Jack is not a psychopath. Now, if we got one of those, that would be interesting.

In her recruitment mission, the warden describes her as "the meanest handful of violence and hate" he's ever encountered. "Dangerous, crazy and very powerful."

And, like a few others on board the Normandy, she gets cut up via RPG cliche #140.

I think there was a great opportunity to see some Kelly-therapist action here, because our straight-man Shepard couldn't help this messed up girl at all (but he did.)  And romance?  Give me a break.

Did you even talk to Jack besides asking her about her loyalty mission? Obviously you didn't because then you would know she has far more depth to her than Miranda, who is also far my cliche than Jack. I don't even see how Jack is cliche. Where else have you seen some crazy, violent telekinetic chick? The developers even said they created Miranda to be like a bond girl. So please know what you are talking about k thx.

Please explain this depth to me.

[Revenant_Mortalus]

I really can't stand Jack. "I survived because I was tougher than everyone else. I started the riot, not the other kids. I had it worse than everyone else, poor me. Don't feel sorry for me coz I'm a bada*s." And of course, after getting her loyalty mission - "I need this, I NEED it... Don't wait too long." At that point I wanted to tell her to get the hell of the ship and go her own way.



Now, I see a lot of people here saying that she becomes more interesting of you take her romance all the way and I admit this is something I've not done yet, so it's very possible my opinion may change. Ash's xenophobia becomes more understandable after she tells you about her grandfather so I'll go for the Jack romance on my next playthrough and we'll see. As it is though, on my first suicide mission run I found myself hoping that Jack caught a bullet in the teeth. As it turned out, she caught one in the ribs and I cheered. Sorry, Jack fans, but that's just the way it is for me. I'd never go so far as to say that people were wrong for liking her, and as someone else stated here Bioware have done a really good job of writing the character if she provokes such a strong (negative OR positive) reaction...

[ZaDonKilluminati]

What i hate the most about Jack is, that she not only thinks she's tough, but she thinks she is much tougher than Shepard ("if i wanted to take the ship, i'd do it")



At that point i just wanted to slap her in the face, nobody is more badass in the whole galaxy then Shepard. Same problem with Aria, btw.

[Blackout 2021]

To me it seems like the people who don't like Jack have a problem with aggressiveness. All I ever see with her is that she tries to be a badass. She's not trying that's her personality. Its a defensive mechanism that was developed due to her past and being brought up in a research facility. All I see for reasons of hating Jack is usually strictly about her looks or her being a B*****. Its basically people feeling threatened by her which I find to be pretty lulzworthy.



As of right now it seems most of the people that like Jack romanced her and the people who don't did not romance her which is a viable reason because I heard otherwise she doesn't really open up and is still the same person when you recruited her. But if you do romance her she is easily one of the deepest characters in the game with superb character development.

[Jackal904]

Taritu wrote...

It's not about tough. Jack's constant swearing and attitude irritates me. Her assumption that my femshep was trying to get into her pants really pissed me off too (mostly because there's no dialogue option to tell her off.)

Ya I'm not sure if Jack was trying to tell you she's not a lesbian, or she just doesn't like hanging out with chicks that much. But it's kind of annoying how if you talk to any squadmate of the opposite sex, it always leads to talk about a romantic relationship with them, and then you gotta tell them no.

Blackout 2021 wrote...

To me it seems like the people who don't like Jack have a problem with aggressiveness. All I ever see with her is that she tries to be a badass. She's not trying that's her personality. Its a defensive mechanism that was developed due to her past and being brought up in a research facility. All I see for reasons of hating Jack is usually strictly about her looks or her being a B*****. Its basically people feeling threatened by her which I find to be pretty lulzworthy.

As of right now it seems most of the people that like Jack romanced her and the people who don't did not romance her which is a viable reason because I heard otherwise she doesn't really open up and is still the same person when you recruited her. But if you do romance her she is easily one of the deepest characters in the game with superb character development.

Haha ya it's really fun that people dislike her because they feel threatened by her, it's pretty fun. But I agree with you completely. And it's true that if you have a romantic relationship with her she'll open up to you big time and you'll see that she is a very deep character. I think she has the most depth out of all your squadmates honestly. You just have to talk to her a lot and get to know her.

Modifié par Jackal904, 13 février 2010 - 02:56 .

[Conway044]

I haven't romanced her, but I like talking to her. She's fun to mess with and once she starts talking about her past that research facility starts to look like the best part of it.

I can't stomach Miranda. I think I dated her back in college, poor me its so unfair that I'm perfect and I have everything I want handed to me. *bleh*

[LakeshowAD1986]

It's almost as if Jack's character tried to be a badass, it felt forced, maybe BW wanted it that way.