140 réponses à ce sujet

[ODST 3]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Shatakai wrote...

I still have yet to have a playthrough where a single member dies. I simply can't turn down loyalty missions, because I just love to play the game and will do every piece of content that is offered, and when it comes down to it, I'm not going to just blatantly choose incorrect characters for specific tasks unless I'm going for a bloodbath ending where everyone dies.

This is my dilemma.  I scour the galaxy for every ounce of xp and upgrade possible.  I too, thought the ending was more intense my first playthrough where I lost Mordin on accident.  Now that I realize my mistake... I just can't bring myself to intentionally screw up just to get someone killed.  I'm actually disappointed in how easy it is to keep *everyone* alive.

You know it's also extremely easy to get them killed as well...

[EDarkness]

Spear-Thrower wrote...

There lies the problem. You shouldn't be able to win the "no win" scenario. At least as far as zero casualties. I guess they emphasized the suicide aspect too much... but that doesn't mean everyone surviving is the correct choice. Anyone can die. And I expect Thane (died in my game) to stay dead in ME3. They'll probably be reduced to cameos anyway. Even Shepard can be a new 'Shepard' - though I doubt many will allow him/her to die.

At no point does the game give you the impression that there wasn't a way to survive the suicide mission.  There was always that hope that you'd pull through against the odds.  Also, from what I understand you can't import a game where Shepard dies, so in order to continue the story Shepard must live. 

[drhys23]

i thinkk for my "canon" story i'm going to have a shep who romanced ash, felt a little troubled about their relationship and almost had a moment of weakness with samara. when the crew gets abducted he rushes to save them, being a sole survivor with a "no one gets left behind outlook, with out making the proper upgrades, killing jack and thane. the mission will go smoothly until the end when miranda or jacob (whoever he is closer to) will do the bubble with tali and garrus in the partywhile samara leads the assault team (because he trusts her) and an unloyal legion leads the crew back. i think the impact of lossing one of his closest friends and a love interest that was never realized is a great personal motivation to kick ass in me3 (maybe even push from paragon to renegade).

[kallikles]

For my paragon Shep, it was a perfect ending. He's not out to lose team members, he's out to heroically stamp out the Reaper threat. Preferably with no casualties on his side, and with millions on the Reaper/Collector/whatever side.

To paraphrase George Patton:

"The object of war is not to die for your species but to make the other bastard die for his."

The ending I had wasn't the "every survives" ending, but the "thousands of Collectors and a Reaper get slaughtered" ending.

Hopefully, ME3 will give me the opportunity to experience the "total genocide of the Reapers" ending

[Forest03]

Re: "I'm actually disappointed in how easy it is to keep *everyone* alive" - CmdrFenix83

I can attest to that. Once you know who the key characters to place in leadership roles are, it's very easy to achieve an ending where everyone survives.


Re: Ending, Survival, Casualties, Important vs Irrelevant Characters

I absolutely hated the fact that we went through so many personal missions, and yet, only four (Legion, Tali, Mordin, Miranda) have something important to contribute to the ME universe's politics, network, or infrastructure. The outcome of the loyalty quests of those first 3 in particular have the potential of having a great impact in ME3, should BioWare decide to implement them.

Everyone else is just filler. ME2's plotline is extremely thin compared to ME1, a terribly disappointing narrative. That's what made the game's overall story (never mind the ending) lame for me. Aside from the four I mentioned, I couldn't care less who died - even though I did aim for the achievement of No One Left Behind. Sure, as a gamer, I hate it if anyone dies at all; but seriously, the ME universe couldn't give a flying piece of space hamster poop if Jacob, Jack, Zaeed, Grunt, or Thane died. As far as ME2 is concerned, they did very little to change to game world.

Samara and Garrus are the only unique exceptions. Their personal missions were irrelevant in terms of gaining an advantage against the Reapers, but their background stories imply that they wiped a lot of dirt off the face of the galaxy before meeting up with Shepard in ME2. Garrus himself was, of course, integral to ME1's overall plot. As for Grunt, he could be a neutral representative of the Krogan, but he is ultimately the embodiment of war, and he would kill other Krogan without hesitation. Wrex, on the other hand, is doing what he can to unite the tribes.

BioWare gave us a grocery list of people to recruit, and each one of them had their personal vendettas. We have to make them "loyal" to increase their chances of survival, and that's fine. But in the end, it didn't really matter if the majority of them died, and the game couldn't make me care if they did.

BioWare can carry Liara, Ashley/Kaidan, Tali, Legion, Miranda, Garrus, Samara, Mordin, and Wrex over into ME3. I would certainly welcome their reappearance. They have important stuff to do. The rest are not plot-integral; insignificant cannon fodder, that's all they are.

Modifié par Forest03, 13 février 2010 - 06:51 .

[CmdrFenix83]

ODST 3 wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Shatakai wrote...

I still have yet to have a playthrough where a single member dies. I simply can't turn down loyalty missions, because I just love to play the game and will do every piece of content that is offered, and when it comes down to it, I'm not going to just blatantly choose incorrect characters for specific tasks unless I'm going for a bloodbath ending where everyone dies.

This is my dilemma.  I scour the galaxy for every ounce of xp and upgrade possible.  I too, thought the ending was more intense my first playthrough where I lost Mordin on accident.  Now that I realize my mistake... I just can't bring myself to intentionally screw up just to get someone killed.  I'm actually disappointed in how easy it is to keep *everyone* alive.

You know it's also extremely easy to get them killed as well...

I have to *intentionally* make bad choices to get people killed.  Shepard isn't that stupid.  After my second playthrough, every time I've kept everyone alive, and the suicide mission feels dramatically less 'intense' than it was the first time.  The first time I kept thinking that at any moment, someone could die, and it kept up a big adrenaline rush to keep plowing through the enemies in an attempt to keep everyone alive. 

After finding out how easy it is to keep everyone alive, that rush is gone.  That sense of danger no longer exists.  I have to purposefully choose to kill someone now.  The gameplay is still phenominal, but the impact the suicide mission has is completely gone.

[Forest03]

Re: Additional playthroughs, excitement gone



Yep. After the first run, there's little to no excitement left when attempting to keep everyone alive in the end. It's too simple.



If we had to keep someone alive at all costs in order to succeed, then it would be more challenging, and there would be a greater purpose in achieving "No One Left Behind". The person in the vents had to be freed from obstacles while in the midst of combat, but that was rather tame.



It's highly probable that we would have to complete the Suicide Mission in order to fully unlock all venues and worlds in ME3. I'd like to see BioWare take it a step further and actually make their stories and mission results part of the next game (instead of having another 2 or more years pass by and giving us a lame rundown of events in a few lines of text). For example:



1. Legion must survive in order for him to lead the re-programmed Heretics into war against the Old Machines

2. Tali has to be kept alive so that she can continue her father's research and develop a viral weapon against the Geth, in case the player chose not to rewrite them.

3. Mordin must be protected from what some players seem to be experiencing as a random case of death in the Suicide Mission so that he can fully develop Maelon's genophage cure, had they chosen to keep the data - could be beneficial, could be disastrous.

[DBHolm]

The reason it is as "easy" as you say is because you prepare quite a bit. Without some of that preparation, someone is going to die.

[Aradace]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Someone has to die.  The ending is lame when everyone lives, it just reuses the old ME music and it makes Shepard's angry look at the data pad and vengeful look into the cosmos looks really off key. 

*uses his Johnny Carson powers* Im thinking the OP likes movies where everyone dies and no one survives....Reasons why, not too clear but this is definately apparent.

[Aradace]

Slidell505 wrote...

Everyone dieing is the best ending.

although Ive seen this ending (on youtube) the text in this picture WONT HAPPEN because BW has already said that you CANNOT LOAD YOUR SAVE GAME TO ME3 IF YOU DIED IN THE SUICIDE MISSION IN ME2.  And they have said in that case you will play as a default Shepard.

As funny as this would be to see, IT WONT HAPPEN due to what BW has already stated many times.

[Deadleader1983]

I personally wanted to have everyone survive so i can see how they advance in ME3. at the same time the game was more surreal watching legion and mordin die.... oh well just gives me a reason to play it again and try to save them all. The bitter sweet thing of it besides wrex all the me1 charicters kinda got a little too dark for me in me2... I loved garrus in me1 but i was so paranoid meeting him again in me2 i thought he was going to stab me in the back at some point..... well if i herd him say can it wait one more time i would of done the same.

[DuffyMJ]

DarkNova50 wrote...

For me, and ending where everybody survives the mission is just a little too 'and they lived happily ever after' esque. For the length of the entire game, people have been telling you the mission is damn near impossible...that you'll be lucky if anybody makes it out. For me, if nobody at all dies, it cheapens that idea, and seems a tad too reminiscent of Deus Ex Machina.

My first run, I had four people total, as well as the entire crew (save Chakwas) kick the bucket. But I thought that added weight to the situation. When Shepard, Garrus and Tali went off to fight the Human form Reaper, and the others stayed behind to buy them time, Shepard gave this emotional speech about how they'd lost good people up to that point. That they had to honour their fallen comrades, and make their deaths count for something. I thought it was an especially dramatic moment.

In the end, I think that character deaths make a video game, or TV show, more interesting and dynamic. FF VII and Gurren Lagann wouldn't have been the same if Aeris and Kamina had lived throughout the whole thing. So, in a weird way, I'm glad my game turned out the way it did.

Totally agree.  My family actually thought something was wrong with me, I was actually quite shaken for a couple days after playing my first playthrough where I lost Legion (totally unexpected, happened because Samara apparently isn't a good squad leader), Grunt (swarm), Zaeed (second squad leader), and Tali (died holding the line). That to me is powerful art, not "yay we all made it!"

I'm convinced no one who made it through the suicide mission unscathed didn't do so because they read how to get through it unscathed prior to going.  Especially because I don't think ANYONE who played Mass Effect 1 would have immediately launched the mission without visiting every planet to make sure they did all the side quests and fully upgraded, etc. first.  I just don't believe it.  I read up on the game a lot before the release and had no idea you could keep playing after beating the story, so I highly doubt anyone who isolated themselves from trailers, etc. knew differently and therefore was able to save their whole crew.  Just not possible. 

[DuffyMJ]

A Blind Bandit wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

For the people with the "no one left behind" mindset, what would you do if there was part in the mission where there's say, a bunker laying down steady fire and someone *had* to go in first to eat the bullets so the rest can make it through? Or any sort of barrier/obstacle which would require sacrifice from one or more team members to allow the others pass to continue? A fairly regular situation where it comes to warfare... and yet, how conveniently absent.

That woud be a compromise in my character. I would find a way to get everyone out. I would do it myself before putting the squad in harms way.

That would be a poor leadership decision.  If you die the remaining squad members will then be leaderless and wiped out.  Happened all the time in World War 2 where Japanese officers would lead charges out of a perceived stigma and when killed would completely ruin their unit cohesion since you now had platoons of Japanese infantry without leadership.

[ReplicantZero]

DBHolm wrote...

The reason it is as "easy" as you say is because you prepare quite a bit. Without some of that preparation, someone is going to die.

I agree. The only reason I got 'No one left behind' on my 1st playthrough was because I knew that the IFF mission was a watershed and overprepared before it. This was on my ME1 import Shepard and I'm glad I did it that way for her.

However on one of my new Shepards I'm tempted to go with Jacob's 'advice' and go straight for the IFF when it comes up, then follow the Collectors straight into the relay after the abduction incident - I suspect this will be a bloodbath. 

[madisk]

SharpEdgeSoda wrote...

I know what you mean. From a story tellers standpoint, death drives an emotion that makes a scene far more memorable. Everybody living is nearly as interesting as having a few die.

From a story tellers standpoint - you're right. From a gamer's standpoint, however, finishing the mission successfully is more satisfying. However, I'm in for both the story and personal goals, so I've already planned on several playtroughs to have a bunch of saves ready for ME3 to explore the different consequences of the possible outcomes of the suicide mission.

[Estelindis]

SharpEdgeSoda wrote...

I had everyone live on my first run, unspoiled, and I thought "Wow...that was almost anticlimactic" then I came on here and found a lot of people having trouble. Lol.

I felt a little like that, once I thought about it.  But, at the time, I felt like the king (er, queen) of the world.  :-)

The thing is, I could've replayed the suicide mission in lots of different ways to improve the results if it had gone badly.  But I feel like a terrible person if I intentionally play it worse just to see what happens.