255 réponses à ce sujet

[soteria]

I think he's talking about the random encounter with the corrupted bearskarn or whatever they are (1 big one and three or four little ones).



There are two mages at the caravan, a genlock alpha, and assorted darkspawn. One mage starts close, the other (and the genlock alpha) start pretty far away. I guess I could just activate dual striking so I don't have to worry about accidentally backstabbing anything, but I'm just waiting for him to reply about the backstabs. Also, I need to decide if I want to turn this into an instructional video or just capture the footage and post it.

It doesn't matter. Your character won't have the soul his has, you dirty, dirty powergamer.

Winnar.

[Sarielle]

soteria wrote...

It doesn't matter. Your character won't have the soul his has, you dirty, dirty powergamer.

Winnar.

I'm only funny in print, though. Alas.

[errant_knight]

soteria wrote...

I'm a US Marine, who focus on bringing terror to the enemy with extreme aggression balanced with tough training and solid discipline/teamwork. When I play, though... it's a game. I'm not trying to apply my profession to what class I choose. Plus, even if I were, wouldn't a mage be more appropriate? Glyphs = traps, ranged damage is a mage, all the way.

Absolutely, play a rogue for role-playing reasons. Based on your post, though, you're not role-playing a rogue, you're role-playing a warrior. You refuse to use traps and poisons, two of the classic rogue tools. You're not backstabbing or stealthing because you see it as unethical, which are two more classic rogue tools. I'm just guessing you're not doing any stealing either, with little to no cunning and the ethical problem with backstabbing.

So, you're not using the stealing, poisons, or traps skills. That leaves survival, persuasion, combat training, and herbalism--you can max three. You really don't need to max persuasion with a high strength or cunning score. Nothing you have said indicates you need any more skills than persuasion, herbalism, and maybe combat training for RP.

My point is you're choosing a rogue for artificial reasons that have nothing to do with how you're trying to play your character. You're not RPing; you're artificially hampering yourself by clinging to pre-conceived notions about what each class should be.  I blame D&D.

I also strongly suspect you're just a troll, but since I'm bored, I really don't care.

Yep. I don't like using traps or poisons either. That's why I don't play a rogue. Besides. I really like bashing them with my shield. I should probably worry about that a little.

[AlanC9]

soteria wrote...
Also, I need to decide if I want to turn this into an instructional video or just capture the footage and post it.

Might as well go all the way if you're doing it at all.

Has anyone else noticed that there seem to be a number of people around who pick bizarre playstyles and them complain that the games aren't fun when they play them their way? My favorite was someone on the ME board, IIRC, who preferred to skip through dialogs altogether and just do everything from the journal. His complaint was that the journal was too good -- he didn't have to think about anything when reading it, because the journal actually did explain what he needed to do next. He wanted a bad journal so he'd have to think about what he was doing

[AlanC9]

Red Frostraven wrote...

2: So I rolled up a rogue, an old character from pen and paper.
His name is Artema. He was a diplomat and a creator of war-machines and traps for the country's army before one of his friends got killed by a trap in a foreign land, a trap placed down by his very own country in a time of war decades ago.
Artema instantly stopped working on war-machines and traps, and swore an oath to never build any construction that possibly could harm the innocent ever again.

Just out of curiosity, how do you reconcile this background story with the actual DA noble origin? It doesn't seem to really fit.

[Sabriana]

Repetitions, contradictions, etc., etc. This makes less sense the more you post. It states the way YOU role-play, but that is your personal choice. The way you play seriously gimps your PC, so either play another role, lower the difficulty, or live with your decision.

How you pull a war-machine building (for decades) soldier HN rogue out of your hat is seriously strange. My rogue is a rogue because she is an archer, and wishes to become a ranger, not for stealing/trap-building/poisoning purposes. If she needs poison, she'll ask Leliana or Zevran, if she needs poltices/health potions, she'll ask Morrigan or Wynne.

My party rarely includes a mage at all, and I have few problems (playing on "Normal", which I like, because I play for RP purposes, not combat purposes), and because my rogue likes neither mage all too much. She will use them if needed, she'd be stupid if she didn't, but that doesn't mean she has to like them. Anything to beat the Blight, right? The big bad danger that is threatening to utterly destroy your home-land. Which my rogue promised her dying father to do. That Blight. You know - nothing left if running unchecked. In my opinion, letting personal feelings get in the way of defeating that menace, is very selfish.

Overpowered mages? Did you take the time to listen around? They are supposed to be that way. The Grey Wardens use only one mage at a time. The King had seven mages only. Mages are locked up and feared throughout the game-world. Sten remarks that at Par Vollen they cut out the mages tongues, and put them on a leash, literally.

[mousestalker]

To the OP:



Warm milk has a soothing and calming effect. If you aren't lactose intolerant, you might give it a try. And you probably should lay off of the caffeine.



We get that you feel you can not play a pen 'n paper character of yours in this game on Nightmare. We are all sad pandas now because of that. Really.



It's past time for all of us to move on and get on with our lives after internalizing the trauma that results from you not being able to play a pre-existing character exactly the way that you want in a new gaming system.



Dry those bitter tears of disappointment and fire up that dusty copy of Maple Story. Put some cheer in your day. If you happen to be alone this Valentine's Day, there are many excellent Internet dating services that can hook you up. Just don't tell your date about your role playing difficulties until after a month or two.

[Sabriana]

I could simply copy/paste my previous statement. But the silliness that WE only know that darkspawn are corrupted people has convinced me that you are simply seeking attention. My rogue knows nothing of the sort. Perhaps because she grew up with the lore about the previous Blights? Perhaps because she actually listened to Duncan/Wynne/Alistair/etc. at Ostagar? Your contradictions are glaring to all but you, apparently.

Coercion and survival are two skills that my rogue uses. She's just not maxed on either. I also never said that stealth is a skill. I can see now that this is how you keep this useless babble going. By stating things as fact that are not fact at all. By insisting that everyone is wrong and you are right. By contradicting yourself, repeating yourself, and making astonishing U-turns. Your way to play is not the only way to play. Your RPing is not the universal truth. Live with it.

Other than that, listen to Mousestalker. Excellent advice, I say.

[Akimb0]

Red Frostraven wrote...

A load of stuff I didn't really read.

Don't understand. Why should the game support making poor choices? A rogue with herbalism instead of a mage? If you're intentionally going to gimp your team why complain? You made it through those situations even if it was hard and you had to retry a few or many times. Therefore the game still works. Therefore your entire post doesn't really prove anything or make any points.

Modifié par Akimb0, 14 février 2010 - 12:00 .

[MacroSamurai]

Okay dude, sheesh this is ridiculous. I take a great deal of offense to the fact that you're taking this high and mighty "you all must not roleplay to the same extent as I do". Screw that noise. For just about all of my characters (which incidentally include all three classes) I have roleplayed. I don't come on a forum and complain about how awesome mages are in the game because of the very fact that yes, *they are supposed to be practically godly*. That's why Fereldans lock them up in a freakin' tower with a bunch of anti-magic, sometimes crazy dudes wrapped in 50 pounds of metal. My favorite character has been a sword and board warrior, and I can rip a whole in the fabric of the game's freakin' reality with how awesome he is. And for what it's worth... with him, I take Coercion all the way to at least 3rd level before I even consider spending skill points on other skills (whoa!).

For my rogue character, I do practically the same thing. Hell, half of the time when I have a rogue in my group that can use poison or traps, I don't use them because I forget. And with the exception of the times when my main character is a rogue, I never maneuver them to backstab. I've never had any trouble with my rogue.

As I mentioned, I've also played a mage. Played one on the first time through because, well, I like mages in RPGs. I died many times with that character (even a couple of party wipes) on my first play through.

Lastly, once more in defense of Morrigan. Congratulations to you for assuming she's a self-serving wench (she basically really is if you take her at face value). The point in the game is... the world is probably *about to end*. You cannot afford to be picky, especially right out of Korcari because you don't even have a freakin' army yet. As it stands at that point, there will be three of you plus a dog to fight an entire horde of soulless warmongers who just want to destroy everything. It's dumb to get all bent out of shape and tell Morrigan to beat it because you have this sinking suspicion about her. Nevertheless, I do applaud you for roleplaying your character. It's just my opinion that you're being slightly foolish for throwing out your best option of having a powerful damage-based mage on your side. For most of my characters, they saw her from the point of view that she helps the group keep things in perspective. We are about to try to save the world. Just because she disapproves of what you do doesn't mean she's going to turn on you when you're not looking.

Okay, I'm stopping. If this keeps up, I'll have one of your posts.

Edit: Just as a second observation. It's could possibly be considered a little meta-gaming that you do ditch Morrigan, since you say that your character won't go to camp and change gear if they don't can't escape a particular encounter. By that logic you should refuse to travel the long roads between settlements and get rid of anybody who is just trying to get by when you do decide to march for fear that they may suddenly turn on you. Your character needs to grow a set. Your a freakin' Grey Warden. The people who end the Blights. Plus you've got Alistair watchin' your back.

Modifié par MacroSamurai, 14 février 2010 - 02:30 .

[Janni-in-VA]

All right, let's see if I've got things fairly straight, here. You'd like to get through the game with your rogue without using poison, traps or backstabs. You have a couple of other characters whom you play differently, making different skill and plot choices. You're creating your characters with different sets of ethics and morals as part of your role-playing style. You'd like to use the highest difficulty setting you reasonably can and get through the game without multiple reloads of particular battles. You've made things quite difficult for yourself, haven't you? However, I see most of these choices as gameplay decisions you've made to really challenge yourself. There's nothing wrong with a challenge.  If I may simplify your major complaint, it's that your game-playing choices are affecting game balance which interferes with your role-playing choices.  Hmmmm....

I don't power-game, and I deliberately try to hold myself to what this character knows at this particular time (with the exception of certain general information you as a player need to pick up about the game world).  I will do multiple playthroughs with wildly differing charcters simply because I like experimenting with different plot lines and different choices. My characters approach things differently from each other, depending on how I feel that character would react in this particular situation. I'm playing a straight vanilla game with no mods right now, although I very well may pick up mods later for other playthroughs. Also, I tend to develop characters with somewhat balanced stats. I'll pump constitution and strength a bit for a mage, because sometimes the rear lines become the front lines. One of my characters is a Dalish warrior who prefers ranged attacks to melee. However, her skills are balanced between archery and sword-and-shield, and I'm pumping her cunning a bit because one of her talents is persuasion. I have a couple of rogues simply because I find them rather endearing. I'll use backstab with either of them in melee combat when I'm trying to pull enemies off a NPC simply because the back may be the only place I can reach amongst all the mayhem. However, I haven't yet used a backstab attack from stealth with either of them and am just beginning to experiment with using poisons with my second rogue.

Generally speaking, for non-essential stats (those which don't directly affect the skills/talents unique to each class) I'll top them out between 15-18, depending on the character. I freely admit I play on Easy or Normal because it suits the way I choose to build my characters. Were I to play on Hard or Nightmare, I'd change the way I build stats and use more specialized skills and talents. So, it seems to me that the trick here it to make game-playing decisions which will enhance your role-playing decisions. After all, the game's supposed to be fun, not a constant source of disappointment and frustration.

As far as party composition goes, I'm experimenting.  I've got one party at present that is comprised of three warriors and a rogue -- PC; Alistair; Shea (Dog) or Sten or Shale; Leliana.  It's working just fine.  Now, I'll admit that I'll put Morrigan or Wynne in the party temporarily to make a gazillion potions, but I haven't really needed as many as one might think.  I also have a Mage PC who is the only mage in her party, except of course during Broken Circle when you must take Wynne along with you.

On a purely personal note, I know about anxiety attacks from experience.  They are most unpleasant (to put it mildly).  I've noticed that when my anxiety level goes up, my patience goes out the window, and I am normally a very patient person.  I'm sure you have several coping strategies, so perhaps it would be helpful to employ some of these when you find yourself so frustrated that you can't enjoy your game?

I realize this post is very general and does not address your more specific concerns, but as I said, although I've been gaming a long time, I'm really more of an instinctive/reactive player rather than one who enjoys the minutiae of damage stats or detailed strategies.  However, I hope there's something here that you find a bit helpful.

Modifié par Janni-in-VA, 14 février 2010 - 04:00 .

[Phonantiphon]

Way too long a post...

[soteria]

AlanC9 wrote...

soteria wrote...
Also, I need to decide if I want to turn this into an instructional video or just capture the footage and post it.

Might as well go all the way if you're doing it at all.

The only thing about doing this is that I hate to make a video showing how to do a fight, and then doing something stupid (like not backstabbing with a rogue).  I feel silly trying to show how to beat an encounter while watching myself constantly manouver OUT of backstabbing position.  It's so unnatural and is a terrible practice for combat...  believe it or not, I had a harder time NOT backstabbing than I usually do getting into position TO backstab.  

Regardless, I have the footage.  It's about two minutes long, so I should have the fight up in the next hour, give or take.

[soteria]

Enough ad hominem, let's discuss roleplaying from this post and on: I'm a roleplayer, and I miss the days of Baldur's Gate and Fallout 1, games that were much harder than Dragon Age, but where you could play anything you liked, at all, and still make it.

Truly, the nostalgia filter has reached a new level... seriously, this blows my mind. Can I steal this for my signature or something?

[AlanC9]

Red Frostraven wrote...

Morrigan may be good, bad, ugly -- it doesn't matter. I'm ONLY asking if the DEVELOPERS intended for mages to be bloody overpowered compared to non-powergaming characters.
Somehow, I don't really believe the developers intended for mages to be so powerful.
Which is why I mentioned having played EVERY other Black Isle  Bioware game.

If that's your only question, you're sure putting up a big smokescreen around it.

The answer seems to be yes. Bioware deves have consistently said that they weren't  concerned with balance between classes once they gave up on MP for the project, and that mages were going to be very powerful.

And are you really saying that mages weren't powerful, even indispensable, in the IE games? Of course, the IE games were a little more vulnerable to exploits than DA:O. My favorite way to kill a lich was to keep sending summoned creatures at him until his protectios wore off and he'd blown his entire spell load.

[Sabriana]

That does it. You really are full of yourself. What I said has been told to you many times over, and still you don't listen. I'm done feeding your needy attention grabbing self. You have obviously no clue about role-playing in a universal sense. It's your way or the highway, is it? Well, I'm off to the highway. At least it is more reasonable, and way easier to talk to.

[AlanC9]

Red Frostraven wrote...

...Seriously. Noone ditched Morrigan because they feared she was a
manipulating, evil wench who very well may kill you at some point?

Nope. Evil, maybe, but she's no good at manipulation.

As for turning on you, that depends. My mage PC wasn't too worried in any event - she's good, but he's better. My city elf rogue doesn't find her any less trustworthy than other humans. My human noble warrior can't stand her, but's going to need her skills until another mage comes along.

BUT I still maintain the decency to not attack people from the behind.

This would apply even in wartime? You would give an enemy sentry fair waning rather than taking him out by surprise?

OR is traps and poison supposed to be mandatory, meaning that anyone NOT investing in those skills are intentionally gimping themselves?

For rogues, yes. That's inherently a part of the class' power. That's how they're balanced. If you don't like this, you shouldn't play a rogue.

[AlanC9]

soteria wrote...

Enough ad hominem, let's discuss roleplaying from this post and on: I'm a roleplayer, and I miss the days of Baldur's Gate and Fallout 1, games that were much harder than Dragon Age, but where you could play anything you liked, at all, and still make it.

Truly, the nostalgia filter has reached a new level... seriously, this blows my mind. Can I steal this for my signature or something?

You'll need irony tags.

[soteria]

This would apply even in wartime? You would give an enemy sentry fair waning rather than taking him out by surprise?

Additionally, this is essentially saying you value the enemy's life above your friends'. The part of the laws of war that the OP conveniently forgets is that enemy combatants--legal ones--are understood to be "fair game" to attack at any time. Soldiers aren't like police officers, who have to give warning and chance to surrender before shooting. Honestly, I'm surprised that a soldier such as the OP doesn't understand the difference.

[soteria]

Oh... video finished uploading and processing. Watch it here.

I didn't *quite* get the stats right. Str/Dex are 27, cunning is 19. All the skills and talents are basically the same, except I forgot to pick up Poison (every rogue starts with it, though you didn't mention having it). I have 3 ranks in combat training, 2 in Survival, and 3 in Persuasion. I'm wearing some random low-tier splintmail I had in my inventory--no Ancient Elven Armor for me. My sword is one you get from the human noble origin, and my dagger is just a regular enchanted dagger.

I'll quote myself from the sidebar on the video:

Instructional video on how to defeat a mixed group of enemies in Dragon Age: Origins. Specifically, this is the "Caravan Down!" quest from the Chanter's board in Redcliffe. My group is Alistair, Leliana, Dog, and a level 10 rogue PC. As always, this was done in nightmare mode without potions or exploits.

A couple notes... as I said in the video, this was a request. I did use the respec mod to try to emulate someone else's character, which I believe I did, with a few small differences because I forgot to take the Poison skill and because my character is one level lower than the level 11 rogue PC he requested. Also, the rogue I was copying does not use poisons or traps, and never attacks from behind. In the discussion, he claimed he didn't know how this fight was possible without a mage or heavy AI abuse. No doubt my use of a superior tactical position on the field was somehow abusing the AI... see the discussion here: http://social.biowar...9/index/1171597

My recommendation to anyone having trouble with a fight like this is first to stop, look around, and see what the terrain offers you in the way of options. Are there any chokepoints? Places to take cover behind? Second, if you find yourself banging you head against a wall, change things up. If your strategy isn't working, try a different one--don't just do the same thing over and over hoping it will work next time. Third, don't be too proud to drop the difficulty a notch. I've personally found that beating a fight on a lower difficulty can help to get past a tough encounter. Once you can beat it on easy, reload and try normal. Then hard, then nightmare if that's what you want.

For more information, tips, and strategies for Dragon Age: Origins, check out http://social.biowar.../index/547017/1

If you insist on "roleplaying" a rogue that shoots an arrow and charges into combat, you're going to die. Repeatedly. Not sure how you can RP a character like that, since he'll be dead, but then, I don't understand a lot of things in this thread.

Modifié par soteria, 14 février 2010 - 05:53 .

[hardvice]

Personally, I'd have to describe your character's refusal to work with Morrigan, despite your ethical differences, as "metagaming". You're rejecting her because you, the player, don't like her, when in the game, you're a Grey Warden. Part of being a Grey Warden means doing whatever you must, working with whoever you must, to get the job done.



You don't have to like her and you don't have to agree with her, but the idea that a character in your position would bring her along but leave her in camp when there's a job to be done and she could help is preciously twee.

[soteria]

...there is no encounter like you describe. The closest resemblance involves a single emissary, but there is no tower. That one is even easier than this one, though.

[Red Frostraven]

hardvice wrote...

Personally, I'd have to describe your character's refusal to work with Morrigan, despite your ethical differences, as "metagaming". You're rejecting her because you, the player, don't like her, when in the game, you're a Grey Warden. Part of being a Grey Warden means doing whatever you must, working with whoever you must, to get the job done.

You don't have to like her and you don't have to agree with her, but the idea that a character in your position would bring her along but leave her in camp when there's a job to be done and she could help is preciously twee.

I as a player, don't care about her: She's a game character.
My player character, a human noble, betrayed THRICE by his allies in three days, losing his mother and father the  first day, then losing two new friends the second day, then losing all that's left the third day...
There's not much trust left.

My mage character brought morrigan with him, because he's more confident in mages AND because he knows life can be harsh for apostates -- besides, he thinks he can turn her around.

Truly, the nostalgia filter has reached a new level... seriously, this
blows my mind. Can I steal this for my signature or something?

Sure. I ran through Baldur's Gate 1 with artema two months ago, using Baldurs' Gate TuTu.
That kind of put me into the nostalgic mood, beeing EXCACTLY as good as I recalled it.
I played Artema through the game, it was then I decided to actually get dragon age -- because even Baldur's Gate gets old.
(He died against Sarevok at the same time as he killed him, at which point I used that as an excuse to NOT play Baldur's Gate II again: That was an epic conclusion to my Baldur's Gate career. Bhaalspawn died. Sarevok died. Fin!)

That does it. You really are full of yourself. What I said has been
told to you many times over, and still you don't listen. I'm done
feeding your needy attention grabbing self. You have obviously no clue
about role-playing in a universal sense. It's your way or the highway,
is it? Well, I'm off to the highway. At least it is more reasonable,
and way easier to talk to.

Have fun on the highway. I'm sure there's a lot of people with your level of education you can talk to there.
I've never told anyone how they should play the game, I've only told how I want to play the game with this one character, and that I found it effing hard once I ditched the evil witch, ding dong.
You suggested to lower the difficulty level, I told you I'd rather not.
What ELSE have you said on topic, really, except for you and your peers questioning my personal life and my diagnosis -- WHICH ISN'T on topic, despite people CONSTANTLY mentioning it?

A lot of people attacked my roleplaying decisions, and argue that my character shouldn't and wouldn't done this and that, and that I deserve whatever coming to me ingame for picking the wrong skill combinations and ditching a person ingame that my character doesn't trust at all.

AND some people accuse me of lying, contradicting myself and beeing an attention ****.
I'VE DONE NOTHING OF THE SORT.
Some people tell me to take more medication, which is tranquilizing: It's not mind-affecting, it's to help me sleep.
Had I not said that a real life friend died to an american mine, I'm not going to be putting anything inbetwen

Can you PLEASE just tell me EXACTLY what I've done wrong to deserve the harsh treatment I've recieved since my FIRST POST, in another thread, where I mentioned that I found roleplaying a dual-wielding strength-dex rogue bloody hard after playing a mage, and instantly got told I played the game wrong?

Is NOT taking poison and traps wrong?

Modifié par Red Frostraven, 14 février 2010 - 07:35 .

[hardvice]

Also, I might have missed it, but what's your roleplaying reason for not turning down the difficulty? I played a character very similar to yours (dual-wielding, non-stealth, non-traps rogue) and that's what I did with her. I figured the highest difficulty settings are for the min-maxers and the folks playing easier builds.

As far as I see, there's no *roleplaying* reason to choose one difficulty level over another (no matter how you slice it, that's *always* an out-of-game choice to suit the player, not the character), and really, all it affects is the difficulty itself (you get the same loot, the same experience, meet the same characters, face the same challenges, etc.), which seems to be your issue.

I mean, look.  BioWare has two different types of fans of their games: there's folks who want to roleplay very specific characters, and there's folks who want to create a "perfect" character build.  Both groups like BioWare games because they're looking for an epic adventure story with great characters.   You're claiming that BioWare caters to the latter but not the former, but I'd say they've done both by making the difficulty adjustment *only* affect difficulty.

Modifié par hardvice, 14 février 2010 - 07:29 .