218 réponses à ce sujet

[Chilly Breeze]

Before I post this, I want to put up the disclaimer that I did enjoy the game, and still think that the whole Mass Effect universe is amazing.  But I found myself disappointed with ME2.

I just finished the story about an hour ago, and am left with the feeling "that was it?"

I mean, I could just be viewing the first game through rose tinted specs, as I only played through it once when it first cam out, and haven't played it since, but it just seems to me that it was so much more epic than the second part.  I found that playing through this new campaign, there just seemed to be a whole lot less to it.  There was less selection to spend training points on, fewer different types of armour etc. and it seemed like the whole story was basically, step one - gather a team, step 2 - go kill the bad guys.

I know there was a lot you could do before going to attack the collectors, with the loyalty quests etc. but I found that I skipped a few of those and sort of ploughed into the suicide mission, without realising that would be the end of the story.  The first game seemed to have so much more to unravel along the way in the big picture than the second one did.  Like, the fact that Anderson and the Council, with Shepherd's status as a spectre were major factors in the first part, but were barely mentioned at all in this one, and discovering about the Protheans and the Reapers etc for the first time.  It seemed like there was a tonne of story to the first part, and only minor progression in this one.

I'm hoping that this was mainly a lead on the ME3 where the whole story and all its arcs really come together, but my feelings on the story in ME2 have been left a little bit deflated.

I did enjoy it a lot though, it was just too short/simple I think.  I think I'm going to have to play through the first game then this one again and try to gain a new appreciation.

Did anyone else feel like this?  Or can anyone offer me some reassurance and point out that I simply went about it in the wrong way?

[Daeion]

Modifié par Daeion, 13 février 2010 - 12:31 .

[Daeion]

Story wise ME feels like the more complete game. ME2 is still a great game, but I might as well be in a grocery store for 5 hours and then spend only 30 minutes putting together and enjoying the meal. There needed to be more to the game after going through the relay, and I don't feel like the story really progressed because the reapers are still coming and none believes you still. Should have added you getting proof and bring it back to the council and then ended with them mobilizing.

[ShadyKat]

You only played ME1 once? Dude whatsupwitdat?!

[Chilly Breeze]

Hehe, I meant to go back to it loads of times, but I just didn't get to it. (got too into Call of Duty I think )



That's my point with ME 2 though, it just seemed like not a lot happened, and we didn't go forward much at all. It kind of took me back to playing Neverwinter Nights. Like, imagine playing the first chapter, where you had to find the Waterdavian creatures, then just moving straight onto the final chapter from there. There could have been so much more to ME2, just like there was with NWN, but they just didn't really give us much.

[Nyaore]

Chilly Breeze wrote...

Hehe, I meant to go back to it loads of times, but I just didn't get to it. (got too into Call of Duty I think )

That's my point with ME 2 though, it just seemed like not a lot happened, and we didn't go forward much at all. It kind of took me back to playing Neverwinter Nights. Like, imagine playing the first chapter, where you had to find the Waterdavian creatures, then just moving straight onto the final chapter from there. There could have been so much more to ME2, just like there was with NWN, but they just didn't really give us much.

That's unfortunately the problem with the middle portion of any trilogy - there just isn't much you can logically do with it. The middle portion is all about setting the scene for the final third of the story, and often focuses less on story and more on overall character growth to help make the final leg all that more impressive. Because of this it's no wonder that it doesn't seem quite as impressive as the first portion of the trilogy. I don't think I've ever come across a middle portion that WAS as good or better than the first installment.

[sherryb1]

I agree with Nyaore. The second installment in a triology always seems to consign itself to mediocrity. That being said, I think ME2 was a good shooter with just enough story (in that order!). I did two playthoughs, but it was tough to find the motivation. Shooters don't have high re-playability, but RPGs do.

[Chilly Breeze]

Nyaore wrote...

Chilly Breeze wrote...

Hehe, I meant to go back to it loads of times, but I just didn't get to it. (got too into Call of Duty I think )

That's my point with ME 2 though, it just seemed like not a lot happened, and we didn't go forward much at all. It kind of took me back to playing Neverwinter Nights. Like, imagine playing the first chapter, where you had to find the Waterdavian creatures, then just moving straight onto the final chapter from there. There could have been so much more to ME2, just like there was with NWN, but they just didn't really give us much.

That's unfortunately the problem with the middle portion of any trilogy - there just isn't much you can logically do with it. The middle portion is all about setting the scene for the final third of the story, and often focuses less on story and more on overall character growth to help make the final leg all that more impressive. Because of this it's no wonder that it doesn't seem quite as impressive as the first portion of the trilogy. I don't think I've ever come across a middle portion that WAS as good or better than the first installment.

Yeah, this is basically what I think the problem is.  It's sort of more like a link between two parts than a part in itself, if that makes sense.  It is still frustrating though; just because you (or I) have never seen a middle portion better that the first, or it seems to be general practice to make middle parts of trilogies mainly tie ins to third parts, doesn't mean that Bioware couldn't have pushed the boat out and really went for it on this one.

I just hope they don't wait too long to release ME3.

[Jonathan Shepard]

No, Nyaore, I think OP is right. I mean, you definitely have a point, and I totally agree, but there really was a lot more that could've been done with ME2. Halo 2, a pure, FPS game all-the-way, had much more story that ME2 did. And considering that ME2 is BioWare, that's extremely disapointing.



Though, if we're judging by the climax and rise to the cliffhanger ending, than Mass Effect 2 wins by miles. Halo 2 just sort of... stopped. ME2 just felt rushed.

But the overall experience left me feeling like ME1 was definitely the better game. This is also partially from the lack of hotkeys and dumbing down of the inventory and level-up systems.

[Realmjumper]

I don't know if I was dissapointed but I did expect some sort of twist that never came. It was all too straight forward. I was hoping something dramatic happened or someone was going to backstab me or something. Something unforeseen.



Perhaps the team needed more time not sure. At least we can explore the galaxy after the main game.

[Sapienti]

Its how it is with any sort of trilogy. Act 1, intro. Act 2 build up to act 3. Act 3 finale. Mass Effect 2 wasn't about an epic struggle or the Collectors or even the Reapers. This game was bout building the team. It was focused heavily on character development. You can't have 3 games with the same formula in a trilogy because it gets really tired really fast. In ME1 it was "Shepard you must stop Saren before its too late, fly by the seat of your pants stay on his heals". They couldn't do the same "Shepard you have to stop the Collectors before its too late, fly by the seat of your pants, stay on them". And then wrap it up with "Shepard you have to stop the Reapers before its too late..." it would then be easy to generalize each game with "and so once again the galaxy is saved".



They toned down the threat from impending galactic destruction to disappearing human colonies so you wouldn't feel pressed to "Save the galaxy" because then they couldn't develop the characters the same way. They built up relationships with each one and fleshed them out so by the time Mass Effect 3 comes out and the story line goes back to "Shepard you have to stop the Reapers once and for all" you are more attached to the squad member who is brutally killed. More inclined to be torn when you have to choose between this character or that character.



I think it was brilliant. The Collectors were the tool that allowed Shepard to put together this realistic feeling team of "real" people. They were never really the main focus. If you look at it in a apples to apples sort of comparison, you'd be comparing the recruitment of Garrus to the recruitment of Garrus in ME2. In ME1, its some alien who says "hey take me with you" and like an episode of pokemon or some you get a new person dropping their whole life to follow you. Same with Wrex and Tali. So rather than focus on big revelation after revelation they focused on characters.



As for the other things, I was only disappointed at using the same couple guns forever. I thought the armor system in this game was more realistic and cooler, just wished I could have done the same with allies. As for point spending, they got rid of un necessary stuff like weapon skills and refined it to necessary things and made the increases in abilities a bit more substantial.

[Nozybidaj]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

No, Nyaore, I think OP is right. I mean, you definitely have a point, and I totally agree, but there really was a lot more that could've been done with ME2. Halo 2, a pure, FPS game all-the-way, had much more story that ME2 did. And considering that ME2 is BioWare, that's extremely disapointing.

Though, if we're judging by the climax and rise to the cliffhanger ending, than Mass Effect 2 wins by miles. Halo 2 just sort of... stopped. ME2 just felt rushed.
But the overall experience left me feeling like ME1 was definitely the better game. This is also partially from the lack of hotkeys and dumbing down of the inventory and level-up systems.

Agreed.

People saying "awww but middle chapters are haaarrrddd" isn't really much of an excuse.  People seem to like to compare ME to Star Wars.  Would anyone really claim that nothing happened in Empire Strikes Back?  There were no big revelations, there was no character development, there was no progress with the characters and their relationships?

No of couse not.

However in ME2 that is exactly the kind of questions that keep coming up.  The whole problem with ME2 is centered around this idea of the suicide mission and the removal of the ME1 crew.  Instead of having a chapter where the characters of the series evolve and grow and we learn new and sometimes shocking things about these characters we got another chapter of the trilogy that centered around nothing but introducing new characters.  There was no build up to a final confrontation, there was no progress for the characters individually (that isn't entirely true Tali, Garrus, and Wrex all had what I thought to be well done character development), there just wasn't any progress made.

We are basically back where we were at the end of ME1 except our entire crew is now either dead or off doing who knows what.

[Nightwriter]

I was delighted on a smaller scale (better dialogue, better characters, more interesting situations and scenes) but disappointed on a larger scale (overall mission, plot arc, game progression).

[Frotality]

im working under the impression that bioware has all sorts of awesomeness that they want to save for ME3. they gave 2 little interesting major bits (collector origin, reaper-human) to set us up for ME3, along with a whole lotta characters and little choices to complicate the development process beyond belief.

[Fhaileas]

Structurally, ME2 falls apart when compared to ME1. The narrative thread of the game is a straight line: Collectors are abducting humans. Find out why and stop them. The plot doesn't expand, ebb or flow in the same way the hunt for Saren did in ME1. As some other posters pointed out, it's also missing keystone characters operating outside your story that give additional perspective into what's going on (or isn't) in the story and the universe. Those were Anderson, the Council and Saren in the former game. The council and Anderson are still there ... but not really. For ME2 we have the Illusive Man. That's ... it. And for all his machinations and creepy cybernetic eyes, he sort of falls flat to me. He doesn't develop, and we never see any other side of his personality than "cool and collected."

Modifié par Fhaileas, 13 février 2010 - 01:13 .

[Shockwave81]

I hope that BioWare fills in a few gaps with DLC, but I'm not going to hold my breath - I'm guessing I'll just have to be happy with a new heavy pistol or SMG coming out every few months.

I had expectations of visiting undiscovered alien cities and finding something 'special', or maybe experiencing something that made me feel a sense of loss like I did when visiting Ilos and talking to Vigil. Instead, we get to visit a few planets with a wall of text about other species that were wiped out.

We have to let our imagination do the work that the devs should have done. I don't believe that the middle part of a trilogy should merely set the scene for the final part. It should also expand on ideas introduced in the first part, and so far ME2 hasn't really fulfilled that - other than providing tidbits about the Reapers and revealing the ultimate fate of the Protheans. I wouldn't be surprised if the Protheans were relegated to a 'nothing' role in the next game. 

People complained about the uncharted worlds in the first game, but to me it seemed as though the whole galaxy was one big boring map - resource nodes and points of interest replaced by a castrated Citadel and a clichéd strip bar. 

Some of the side quests didn't expand on the overall story at all!! 

Modifié par Shockwave81, 13 février 2010 - 01:26 .

[Sapienti]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

No, Nyaore, I think OP is right. I mean, you definitely have a point, and I totally agree, but there really was a lot more that could've been done with ME2. Halo 2, a pure, FPS game all-the-way, had much more story that ME2 did. And considering that ME2 is BioWare, that's extremely disapointing.

Though, if we're judging by the climax and rise to the cliffhanger ending, than Mass Effect 2 wins by miles. Halo 2 just sort of... stopped. ME2 just felt rushed.
But the overall experience left me feeling like ME1 was definitely the better game. This is also partially from the lack of hotkeys and dumbing down of the inventory and level-up systems.

Agreed.

People saying "awww but middle chapters are haaarrrddd" isn't really much of an excuse.  People seem to like to compare ME to Star Wars.  Would anyone really claim that nothing happened in Empire Strikes Back?  There were no big revelations, there was no character development, there was no progress with the characters and their relationships?

No of couse not.

However in ME2 that is exactly the kind of questions that keep coming up.  The whole problem with ME2 is centered around this idea of the suicide mission and the removal of the ME1 crew.  Instead of having a chapter where the characters of the series evolve and grow and we learn new and sometimes shocking things about these characters we got another chapter of the trilogy that centered around nothing but introducing new characters.  There was no build up to a final confrontation, there was no progress for the characters individually (that isn't entirely true Tali, Garrus, and Wrex all had what I thought to be well done character development), there just wasn't any progress made.

We are basically back where we were at the end of ME1 except our entire crew is now either dead or off doing who knows what.

Problem with that is you're dealing with a lot of different settings. Sure middle chapters are hard. But the premise for the middle chapter in Mass Effect 2 was building a team. They don't have the same kind of time as a movie would when it comes to development. Choices have to be made. And their choice here was likely character development. ME1 style shallow characters with heavy story, or half ass both. After ME1 what would have been the step for Shepard to take next? Attack the Reapers. Since it is supposed to be a trilogy, the whole game could have just as easily been about him getting ready to attack them. Either that or he starts and then the last game is about him fighting. Like the last Matrix movie. Either way, with this story set up, the middle chapter would have been the build up to the final. Which it was. And the main focus was characters and character development.

[Ooga600]

ME 2 focuses more on character/species development than progressing the story. You learn a lot about the Krogan, Geth, and Quarians (and you may even hear from the Rachni) and they become possible allies in the upcoming battle. However, it's unfortunate that most of this is in loyalty missions, as not everyone will see it.

[Nozybidaj]

Sapienti wrote...


Problem with that is you're dealing with a lot of different settings. Sure middle chapters are hard. But the premise for the middle chapter in Mass Effect 2 was building a team. They don't have the same kind of time as a movie would when it comes to development. Choices have to be made. And their choice here was likely character development. ME1 style shallow characters with heavy story, or half ass both. After ME1 what would have been the step for Shepard to take next? Attack the Reapers. Since it is supposed to be a trilogy, the whole game could have just as easily been about him getting ready to attack them. Either that or he starts and then the last game is about him fighting. Like the last Matrix movie. Either way, with this story set up, the middle chapter would have been the build up to the final. Which it was. And the main focus was characters and character development.

I think you are misunderstanding "character development"  The only people in the game with characer development were, as I said Tali, Garrus, and Wrex.  The rest was all character introduction.    But yes, I agree the entire premise of the game was buildig a team.  But didn't I already have a team?  Oh, but since we are building a team we have to get rid of the old team, so that we can build a new team.  /sigh

And they don't have the same kind of time for character development in a 40 hour game that a 2 hour movie does?  You also try and draw a false choice "ME1 style shallow characters with heavy story, or half ass both".  Why not go heavy with character development?  They could have completely chosen to do that.  Instead they decided to spend the entire second chapter introducing us to brand new characters.  Everything that was set up in the first game, Shepard's crew, Shepard's relationships, Shepard's motivations, it was all cast aside in the first 10 minutes of the game so they could, introduce more characters.

In the end the game felt more like grocery shoppping or joining a Pokeman league than getting ready to fight the reapers.  All the setup, all the motivations. all the emotional attachments that were created through a wonderfully written and produced first installment were cast aside to create a backdrop of a story against which to have us go shoot stuff.  The game in a lot of ways felt like a very generic shooter.  Not something I've come to expect from Bioware.

[JediMB]

Honestly, after playing Mass Effect 1 four times it feels like little more than a fetch quest, as good as the story and characters are. Run to one place for Liara, run to another for the Mass Relay coordinates, run to a third place for the cipher, and run to a fourth place for the missing puzzle pieces.



As much fun as it is to be part of it and explore the different options, it's really a very basic story, more akin to that of a movie than a story-driven RPG.



Mass Effect 2 had more of a character focus, yes. You got to explore the characters' stories, try to integrate them into your crew, and that was the main focus of the game. But it did also explore issues from the first game, such as the nature of indoctrination, Sovereign's reason for dealing with Saren, the fate of the protheans, the conflict between the quarians and the geth, and a number of other small things.

[Fhaileas]

JediMB wrote...

Honestly, after playing Mass Effect 1 four times it feels like little more than a fetch quest, as good as the story and characters are. Run to one place for Liara, run to another for the Mass Relay coordinates, run to a third place for the cipher, and run to a fourth place for the missing puzzle pieces.

.

By your definition of a "fetch quest", the development and evolution of every game's narrative necessitates "fetching" or "finding" "stuff". Contextually that's not true. In ME1 you weren't told to visit Feros/Noveria/Therum etc. to "fetch" the Mass Relay Coordinates/Cipher/Liara etc. You discovered them after the fact via "investigating" anomalies in these places, you were oblivious to their existence otherwise.

ME2 recruitment missions on the other hand were the very definition of "fetch quests".

Modifié par Fhaileas, 13 février 2010 - 01:42 .

[Shockwave81]

A huge part of the ME storyline is what happened in the past - ancient dig sites, the extinction of entire species. I don't want to READ about these things, I want to get down and SEE them (or at least the effects of them).



I'm starting to mourn the game that could have been, and the more I think about it, the more irritated I get. I'm not going to anticipate ME3 like I did ME2 - it's just like a relationship - once the honeymoon is over, you start seeing the other party for what they really are.

[Ghostano]

Sapienti wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

No, Nyaore, I think OP is right. I mean, you definitely have a point, and I totally agree, but there really was a lot more that could've been done with ME2. Halo 2, a pure, FPS game all-the-way, had much more story that ME2 did. And considering that ME2 is BioWare, that's extremely disapointing.

Though, if we're judging by the climax and rise to the cliffhanger ending, than Mass Effect 2 wins by miles. Halo 2 just sort of... stopped. ME2 just felt rushed.
But the overall experience left me feeling like ME1 was definitely the better game. This is also partially from the lack of hotkeys and dumbing down of the inventory and level-up systems.

Agreed.

People saying "awww but middle chapters are haaarrrddd" isn't really much of an excuse.  People seem to like to compare ME to Star Wars.  Would anyone really claim that nothing happened in Empire Strikes Back?  There were no big revelations, there was no character development, there was no progress with the characters and their relationships?

No of couse not.

However in ME2 that is exactly the kind of questions that keep coming up.  The whole problem with ME2 is centered around this idea of the suicide mission and the removal of the ME1 crew.  Instead of having a chapter where the characters of the series evolve and grow and we learn new and sometimes shocking things about these characters we got another chapter of the trilogy that centered around nothing but introducing new characters.  There was no build up to a final confrontation, there was no progress for the characters individually (that isn't entirely true Tali, Garrus, and Wrex all had what I thought to be well done character development), there just wasn't any progress made.

We are basically back where we were at the end of ME1 except our entire crew is now either dead or off doing who knows what.

Problem with that is you're dealing with a lot of different settings. Sure middle chapters are hard. But the premise for the middle chapter in Mass Effect 2 was building a team. They don't have the same kind of time as a movie would when it comes to development. Choices have to be made. And their choice here was likely character development. ME1 style shallow characters with heavy story, or half ass both. After ME1 what would have been the step for Shepard to take next? Attack the Reapers. Since it is supposed to be a trilogy, the whole game could have just as easily been about him getting ready to attack them. Either that or he starts and then the last game is about him fighting. Like the last Matrix movie. Either way, with this story set up, the middle chapter would have been the build up to the final. Which it was. And the main focus was characters and character development.

In the third one we will be building yet another team. I do no consider 6 horney chacters as deeper chacter devolpment. If you do not want to have sex with them they pout and refuse to talk to you the rest of the game..AWSOME devolpment. If the second part of a trilogy is sooooo hard then do not make one. They spent to much time adding all new shiny things and forgot that moveing the story ahead would be nice. I do not know maybe work on getting the other races to work on getting ready for the reapers. You half ass do this with the quarians and geth.

 There was no build up the whole damn story felt like a long uncharted world mission from ME1. Let me see jacob dad is self center ass got it. Garrus wants revnege for his squad getting killed(got it he is nothing liek the guarrs in the first one we can shag him AWSOME). Thane I am dieing help me make up with my son. Oh noos my dad going to get my sister helps me shapard..o like my chest you save her you can touch it. Grunt want to smash...Grunt smash feel better lets smash more. Mordian must save my student...oh he working with them oh well "bang" can get a new one later. Shapard lets blow something up..sure thing Jack. Thank you for the help want to shag? No thanks. Fine F*** off. I will stay here and pout. Help me kill my daughter..ok now she dead lets talk(Shame her not wanting you to shag lets you get to know her better almost want to follow Samara ) I need your help shapard no problem Tali..that was fun sorry about your dad(enjoyed this one also) We are bor..Geth help us hack or bros...that was fun now meet my fried the quarian. Never mind she seems to busy working on engines to notice you.

 So guess we go kill the collectors now...wow that was insane a gaint Aronld and everything kelly to my cabin I need you to "feed my fish". See you in the DLC and ME3. Wow I feel like I just did another playthrough minus the loading screens .



 The matrix trilogy was a sequal that was to long and was split into two movies. Empire strkes back was darker without forceing the feeling. It put the heros on there heels something they could have tried to do in mass effect 2. Still waiting for the illiusive man to break out,"Shapard guess what. What? I am you son...Ha thought Iw as going to say dad nope I am your son." Two towers you start to see the cost of the conflict as it starts to heat up. Frodo really starts to struggle to resist the ring taint. I did so love how they totaly removed all the chacters from the first part to add the horney bunny chacters...hmm nope they  added a few to help move the story forward not make a cheap porn. I atleast felt like I learned more about the story with lord of the rings and the first star wars movies. Matrix and the prequals I was more like WTH!?! just happned. The graphics were nice but did I miss something looking at all the new shines. Lol I spent most my time counting the different type of screen wipes doing Attack of the Clones I guess that is why I missed its story.



 Hopeing for the ablity to just import my ME1 save stright to ME3


Lol I made a long post saying nothing I think I shall run for public office I would be so AWSOME

[ME2 Lover]

I think if you finish it too quickly you think it was really short and trust me I thought that to when I played the first time...but when I played it the second time it is better and longer to me

Modifié par ME2 Lover, 13 février 2010 - 01:54 .

[Fhaileas]

Shockwave81 wrote...

I'm starting to mourn the game that could have been, and the more I think about it, the more irritated I get. I'm not going to anticipate ME3 like I did ME2 - it's just like a relationship - once the honeymoon is over, you start seeing the other party for what they really are.

I agree wholeheartedly! To be honest, I have lost my faith in the franchise due to the travesty that is ME2. I can't help feeling (whether scapegoating or nor) that the merger with EA is responsible..

Modifié par Fhaileas, 13 février 2010 - 01:56 .