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Anyone else a bit disappointed? *spoilers*


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#26
Sapienti

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Nozybidaj wrote...


I think you are misunderstanding "character development"  The only people in the game with characer development were, as I said Tali, Garrus, and Wrex.  The rest was all character introduction.    But yes, I agree the entire premise of the game was buildig a team.  But didn't I already have a team?  Oh, but since we are building a team we have to get rid of the old team, so that we can build a new team.  /sigh

And they don't have the same kind of time for character development in a 40 hour game that a 2 hour movie does?  You also try and draw a false choice "ME1 style shallow characters with heavy story, or half ass both".  Why not go heavy with character development?  They could have completely chosen to do that.  Instead they decided to spend the entire second chapter introducing us to brand new characters.  Everything that was set up in the first game, Shepard's crew, Shepard's relationships, Shepard's motivations, it was all cast aside in the first 10 minutes of the game so they could, introduce more characters.

In the end the game felt more like grocery shoppping or joining a Pokeman league than getting ready to fight the reapers.  All the setup, all the motivations. all the emotional attachments that were created through a wonderfully written and produced first installment were cast aside to create a backdrop of a story against which to have us go shoot stuff.  The game in a lot of ways felt like a very generic shooter.  Not something I've come to expect from Bioware.

They may have been introduced but the characters were still developed. New characters can be developed by having them fleshed out and made believable. You got to see what motivated Mordin, Samara, Jack, Grunt, etc through the story of the game. In Mass Effect 1, all you got was "hi my name is this and I'm now coming with you". And people are getting nostalgia mixed up with actual in game attachments. The bonding between the crew was superficial. If you play the game and neglect to have conversations outside the main story with any character then there is no bonding with any of them. They're just people who sit in your ship. You don't do any missions where they really just come out and talk about where they're coming from or anything like that. They're just there.

In ME2, like I said before, they do it one better and make the characters matter. You may feel like they just tossed out all your efforts in ME1 out the window, but really the game would have still had the same feel of that middle chapter set up. Shepard would have his established crew from the get go, they could have some character development and then they go off and get ready to fight the Reapers, and they either start the fight and ME3 is a long fight or they get to the threshold and we get a cliff hanger. Given the choice between the two I like that they started over fresh to actually build a team that has more between them all than just banter. When you get out of ME2 you actually get the feeling that you and your team just ran a gauntlet and now they actually have a reason to talk about "the good old days".

Lastly, the game is not 40 hours of pure story telling. If you break it down to the core dialogue of each characters missions and scenes or whatever its a lot less. Can't compare a game to a movie apples to apples because the planning for either one are very different. To sum it up, there were very little emotional attachments set up in the narrative of Mass Effect 1. Outside of the romance subplots you could argue there was absolutely none. The over all story was well written yea, but so was each characters mission in ME2. ME1 had a great set up, for a finale. A middle game seems pointless unless they create a good enough excuse. And in my opinion they did.

#27
Greywolf McGrowler

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I really miss the Mako. I love exploring the planets and just roaming around. Then looking around for vantage points to snipe off the enemy from a mountainside in the way far away distance. Kinda hard to do that in ME2 from what I've played. It seems like everything is so close distance.

#28
Nozybidaj

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Ghostano wrote...
Hopeing for the ablity to just import my ME1 save stright to ME3 Image IPB


God, that so would have saved me $60 and a lot of disapointment.


Lol I made a long post saying nothing I think I shall run for public office I would be so AWSOME Image IPB


I thought it was a very good summary, well done.  It often feels like the entire point of ME2 is to shag a digital version of Yvonne Strahovski.

#29
NoShtSherlock

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Shockwave, you are not alone in not getting too excited about ME 3 after ME 2. ME 1 was amazing in its story and its characters and in my personal opinion ME 2 didn't have that. Playing ME 2 after playing ME 1 was like watching the air go out of a balloon very quickly.

If ME 3 is going to be like ME 2 then I think I'd be done with that part of the series and return to playing my beloved ME 1.

I know that there are people that love ME 2 and that is great that they enjoyed the game so much. I just wasn't one of them. In my opinion ME 2 seemed to be more focused with being a shooter than an RPG and as shooter games are not really my thing perhaps that's why I didn't like more than a few parts of it. Also the story and characters in my opinion fell short in ME 2 for e.g. Grunt was no Wrex. Wrex had his own personality and Grunt just wanted to kill things. In my personal opinion only two character's were any good, Tali and Legion. :)

Modifié par NoShtSherlock, 13 février 2010 - 02:06 .


#30
BaladasDemnevanni

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I think people who say Bioware has 'sold out' are overstepping themselves. Does Mass Effect 2 present a shorter story/experience than the original? Yes. But considering barely 4 months ago Dragon Age was released, which is a very traditional RPG style, I'm inclined to say Bioware designed ME2 with this sort of intent rather than just trying to appeal to the mainstream.

I also think the complaints regarding the final sequence are unwarranted. It was not as long as the Ilos-->Citadel -->Saren sequence was, but that was the *intent*. This wasn't your prolonged 'we're sending you on a 3 hour adventure'. You went in fast, you went in hard, and if you were unprepared people would die. This was the Normandy versus the entire Collector home base, did you really think it was going to be some epic space battle?

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 13 février 2010 - 02:17 .


#31
Sapienti

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BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

I think people who say Bioware has 'sold out' are overstepping themselves. Does Mass Effect 2 present a shorter story/experience than the original? Yes. But considering barely 4 months ago Dragon Age was released, which is a very traditional RPG style, I'm inclined to say Bioware designed ME2 with this sort of intent rather than just trying to appeal to the mainstream.

I also think the complaints regarding the final sequence are unwarranted. It was not as long as the Ilos-->Citadel -->Saren sequence was, but that was the *intent*. This wasn't your prolonged 'we're sending you on a 3 hour adventure'. You went in fast, you went in hard, and if you were unprepared people would die. This was the Normandy versus the entire Collector home base, did you really think it was going to be some epic space battle?


Yea the last sequence was more about you and your team getting through everything alive. You can't drag out the tense feeling of "we can die at any time" over the same amount of time as Ilos-> Citadel-> Saren. But you can make people fear for the lives of their squad members. And that was well done in my opinion.

I don't really agree that the game presents a shorter story experience though because things revolved more around recruitment. But if you look at things as "how much story is there after I recruit my whole team" then yea it seems that way.

#32
Nozybidaj

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Sapienti wrote...

Yea the last sequence was more about you and your team getting through everything alive. You can't drag out the tense feeling of "we can die at any time" over the same amount of time as Ilos-> Citadel-> Saren. But you can make people fear for the lives of their squad members. And that was well done in my opinion.

I don't really agree that the game presents a shorter story experience though because things revolved more around recruitment. But if you look at things as "how much story is there after I recruit my whole team" then yea it seems that way.


For me to " fear for the lives of their squad members" they would have first had to get me emotionaly engaged by these characters.  I honestly couldn't have cared one way or the other if most of them had died.  They were just resources, cannon fodder, for a suicide mission.  At this point I could go straight from ME1 to ME3 and not have missed anything in my Shepard's story.

#33
NoShtSherlock

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Sapienti wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

I think people who say Bioware has 'sold out' are overstepping themselves. Does Mass Effect 2 present a shorter story/experience than the original? Yes. But considering barely 4 months ago Dragon Age was released, which is a very traditional RPG style, I'm inclined to say Bioware designed ME2 with this sort of intent rather than just trying to appeal to the mainstream.

I also think the complaints regarding the final sequence are unwarranted. It was not as long as the Ilos-->Citadel -->Saren sequence was, but that was the *intent*. This wasn't your prolonged 'we're sending you on a 3 hour adventure'. You went in fast, you went in hard, and if you were unprepared people would die. This was the Normandy versus the entire Collector home base, did you really think it was going to be some epic space battle?


Yea the last sequence was more about you and your team getting through everything alive. You can't drag out the tense feeling of "we can die at any time" over the same amount of time as Ilos-> Citadel-> Saren. But you can make people fear for the lives of their squad members. And that was well done in my opinion.

I don't really agree that the game presents a shorter story experience though because things revolved more around recruitment. But if you look at things as "how much story is there after I recruit my whole team" then yea it seems that way.



There was to be honest nothing in the last batlle that could bring out a tense feeling I mean seriously Shepherd's team was fighting like a giant terminator or is that human reaper, I forget:)

Modifié par NoShtSherlock, 13 février 2010 - 02:43 .


#34
Sapienti

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Nozybidaj wrote...

Sapienti wrote...

Yea the last sequence was more about you and your team getting through everything alive. You can't drag out the tense feeling of "we can die at any time" over the same amount of time as Ilos-> Citadel-> Saren. But you can make people fear for the lives of their squad members. And that was well done in my opinion.

I don't really agree that the game presents a shorter story experience though because things revolved more around recruitment. But if you look at things as "how much story is there after I recruit my whole team" then yea it seems that way.


For me to " fear for the lives of their squad members" they would have first had to get me emotionaly engaged by these characters.  I honestly couldn't have cared one way or the other if most of them had died.  They were just resources, cannon fodder, for a suicide mission.  At this point I could go straight from ME1 to ME3 and not have missed anything in my Shepard's story.


And I feel the exact opposite. For me the Ashley Kaidan choice was pretty bland in comparisson. They don't even have dialogue outside of the main story. I felt more attached to the way characters were presented in ME2. Many did.

#35
NoShtSherlock

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Sapienti wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Sapienti wrote...

Yea the last sequence was more about you and your team getting through everything alive. You can't drag out the tense feeling of "we can die at any time" over the same amount of time as Ilos-> Citadel-> Saren. But you can make people fear for the lives of their squad members. And that was well done in my opinion.

I don't really agree that the game presents a shorter story experience though because things revolved more around recruitment. But if you look at things as "how much story is there after I recruit my whole team" then yea it seems that way.


For me to " fear for the lives of their squad members" they would have first had to get me emotionaly engaged by these characters.  I honestly couldn't have cared one way or the other if most of them had died.  They were just resources, cannon fodder, for a suicide mission.  At this point I could go straight from ME1 to ME3 and not have missed anything in my Shepard's story.


And I feel the exact opposite. For me the Ashley Kaidan choice was pretty bland in comparisson. They don't even have dialogue outside of the main story. I felt more attached to the way characters were presented in ME2. Many did.


SOME people felt more attached to the squad mates from ME 2 and SOME didn't feel anything for the squadmates in ME 2:)

#36
Nozybidaj

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NoShtSherlock wrote...

Sapienti wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Sapienti wrote...

Yea the last sequence was more about you and your team getting through everything alive. You can't drag out the tense feeling of "we can die at any time" over the same amount of time as Ilos-> Citadel-> Saren. But you can make people fear for the lives of their squad members. And that was well done in my opinion.

I don't really agree that the game presents a shorter story experience though because things revolved more around recruitment. But if you look at things as "how much story is there after I recruit my whole team" then yea it seems that way.


For me to " fear for the lives of their squad members" they would have first had to get me emotionaly engaged by these characters.  I honestly couldn't have cared one way or the other if most of them had died.  They were just resources, cannon fodder, for a suicide mission.  At this point I could go straight from ME1 to ME3 and not have missed anything in my Shepard's story.


And I feel the exact opposite. For me the Ashley Kaidan choice was pretty bland in comparisson. They don't even have dialogue outside of the main story. I felt more attached to the way characters were presented in ME2. Many did.


SOME people felt more attached to the squad mates from ME 2 and SOME didn't feel anything for the squadmates in ME 2:)


And SOME people feel more than just a little bit of disappointment that all the emotional attachment we felt for the already established characters was thrown out the window.

#37
NoShtSherlock

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Nozybidaj wrote...

NoShtSherlock wrote...

Sapienti wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Sapienti wrote...

Yea the last sequence was more about you and your team getting through everything alive. You can't drag out the tense feeling of "we can die at any time" over the same amount of time as Ilos-> Citadel-> Saren. But you can make people fear for the lives of their squad members. And that was well done in my opinion.

I don't really agree that the game presents a shorter story experience though because things revolved more around recruitment. But if you look at things as "how much story is there after I recruit my whole team" then yea it seems that way.


For me to " fear for the lives of their squad members" they would have first had to get me emotionaly engaged by these characters.  I honestly couldn't have cared one way or the other if most of them had died.  They were just resources, cannon fodder, for a suicide mission.  At this point I could go straight from ME1 to ME3 and not have missed anything in my Shepard's story.


And I feel the exact opposite. For me the Ashley Kaidan choice was pretty bland in comparisson. They don't even have dialogue outside of the main story. I felt more attached to the way characters were presented in ME2. Many did.


SOME people felt more attached to the squad mates from ME 2 and SOME didn't feel anything for the squadmates in ME 2:)


And SOME people feel more than just a little bit of disappointment that all the emotional attachment we felt for the already established characters was thrown out the window.


Agree with with you there

#38
Sapienti

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Nozybidaj wrote...

NoShtSherlock wrote...


SOME people felt more attached to the squad mates from ME 2 and SOME didn't feel anything for the squadmates in ME 2:)


And SOME people feel more than just a little bit of disappointment that all the emotional attachment we felt for the already established characters was thrown out the window.

Well you may feel slighted but understand that in the context of the first game there was no bond made. That emotional attachment comes from simply playing the game. Its not even implied that it exists in the story of the first game. There is no substance storywise. At least in ME2 they try and build that connection through story progression as well. I can understand feeling upset about that but I didn't let the loss of Wrex as a squadmate prevent me from enjoying the new characters.

#39
Nozybidaj

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Sapienti wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

NoShtSherlock wrote...


SOME people felt more attached to the squad mates from ME 2 and SOME didn't feel anything for the squadmates in ME 2:)


And SOME people feel more than just a little bit of disappointment that all the emotional attachment we felt for the already established characters was thrown out the window.

Well you may feel slighted but understand that in the context of the first game there was no bond made. That emotional attachment comes from simply playing the game. Its not even implied that it exists in the story of the first game. There is no substance storywise. At least in ME2 they try and build that connection through story progression as well. I can understand feeling upset about that but I didn't let the loss of Wrex as a squadmate prevent me from enjoying the new characters.


No, because Wrex had actual character development in ME2.  The loss of the LI's though is defintely enough to prevent me from enjoying the game as the main motivation and a huge part of who Shepard is, is completely absent from the game.

#40
Sapienti

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Nozybidaj wrote...

Sapienti wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

NoShtSherlock wrote...


SOME people felt more attached to the squad mates from ME 2 and SOME didn't feel anything for the squadmates in ME 2:)


And SOME people feel more than just a little bit of disappointment that all the emotional attachment we felt for the already established characters was thrown out the window.

Well you may feel slighted but understand that in the context of the first game there was no bond made. That emotional attachment comes from simply playing the game. Its not even implied that it exists in the story of the first game. There is no substance storywise. At least in ME2 they try and build that connection through story progression as well. I can understand feeling upset about that but I didn't let the loss of Wrex as a squadmate prevent me from enjoying the new characters.


No, because Wrex had actual character development in ME2.  The loss of the LI's though is defintely enough to prevent me from enjoying the game as the main motivation and a huge part of who Shepard is, is completely absent from the game.


Ah now we get to the heart of the issue.

#41
pygmius influenza

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Fhaileas wrote...
 ...I can't help feeling (whether scapegoating or nor) that the merger with EA is responsible..

haha...everything ea can touch dies. (Image IPB for death by ea) and that combined with biowares history of rushing the last part of the story doesnt help any.

on a different note, i have beat the game 3 times...in less than a week so yah...this game is cool but when you compare it to ME1 the only thing that tops ME1 is the graphics. barely...so yay for graphicsImage IPB

Modifié par pygmius influenza, 13 février 2010 - 03:18 .


#42
Zhijn

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Problem i found with ME2 is that it have to little main story telling and way way to much gang-warfare (shepard, cop of the galaxy! roar!).

And smack, you board a collector ship and learn a massive plot about who the collectors are. Then its back to recruiting and doing loyalty missions with more gang-warefare. The story pacing just didnt fit except the beginning and the ending, everything inbetween just lacked.

Dont get me wrong, the recruitment, loyalty missions and what not is very nice improvement and very well crafted when compared to the ME1's static missions. Still i think more plot discovery and collector encounters wouldnt have hurt ME2. =/

... and dont get me started on the giant human terminator. xD

Modifié par Zhijn, 13 février 2010 - 03:20 .


#43
Nozybidaj

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Sapienti wrote...



Ah now we get to the heart of the issue.


I didn't really think it was a big secret.

#44
Gill Kaiser

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Sapienti wrote...

Its how it is with any sort of trilogy. Act 1, intro. Act 2 build up to act 3. Act 3 finale. Mass Effect 2 wasn't about an epic struggle or the Collectors or even the Reapers. This game was bout building the team. It was focused heavily on character development. You can't have 3 games with the same formula in a trilogy because it gets really tired really fast. In ME1 it was "Shepard you must stop Saren before its too late, fly by the seat of your pants stay on his heals". They couldn't do the same "Shepard you have to stop the Collectors before its too late, fly by the seat of your pants, stay on them". And then wrap it up with "Shepard you have to stop the Reapers before its too late..." it would then be easy to generalize each game with "and so once again the galaxy is saved".

They toned down the threat from impending galactic destruction to disappearing human colonies so you wouldn't feel pressed to "Save the galaxy" because then they couldn't develop the characters the same way. They built up relationships with each one and fleshed them out so by the time Mass Effect 3 comes out and the story line goes back to "Shepard you have to stop the Reapers once and for all" you are more attached to the squad member who is brutally killed. More inclined to be torn when you have to choose between this character or that character.

I think it was brilliant. The Collectors were the tool that allowed Shepard to put together this realistic feeling team of "real" people. They were never really the main focus. If you look at it in a apples to apples sort of comparison, you'd be comparing the recruitment of Garrus to the recruitment of Garrus in ME2. In ME1, its some alien who says "hey take me with you" and like an episode of pokemon or some you get a new person dropping their whole life to follow you. Same with Wrex and Tali. So rather than focus on big revelation after revelation they focused on characters.

As for the other things, I was only disappointed at using the same couple guns forever. I thought the armor system in this game was more realistic and cooler, just wished I could have done the same with allies. As for point spending, they got rid of un necessary stuff like weapon skills and refined it to necessary things and made the increases in abilities a bit more substantial.


I couldn't agree more. I was very impressed with the way the story was character-focused but in a way that didn't fly in the face of the overall plot. Having a hidden, abstract threat that is gradually revealed to you was a perfect solution. The emphasis on building your team and getting them to work together made the character development an integral part of the overall story rather than a distraction.

#45
scrappydoo555

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I feel disapointed in it too which is really hard for me to admit because I was looking forward to it so much. anyway here's my reasons



I thought it felt rushed - once you have your great new team there's nothing to do but the suicide mission, and not enough time with Legion as a squad member.



I didn't care for most of the characters, Zaeed doesn't even have a conversation, so I didn't really care who lived or died. I liked some of them but not just not enough for the entire game to be about them.



not enough reflections of ME1, after all that was said about importing saves and it results in emails and background news reports.



no continuation of ME1 romance - after all they went through together on ME1 not one of them really trusts you enough to have a proper conversation.



so many unanswered questions left a feeling of what was it all for. there was no real progression. The collectors weren't in ME1 they just turn up as a major threat and get killed so I'm guessing no collectors in ME3 whats the point in that.



The romances for femshep are hardly romantic. Garrus wants to blow off steam - you get a headbut. Thane (I really liked him if he could live that would be great) is dying - you get a kiss and Jacob wants to keep it light - shows off his chest. nothing there for a lasting relationship and not enough passion for a fling.



I think I probably would come to really like these characters if I played the game more but I've completed it 3 times now and the thought off scanning more planets really puts me off. Maybe if there was a way that after each playthrough the amount of resources at the begining went up but I just can't face anymore scanning. and the 50,000 isn't enough it's just a med bay upgrade



I really want to like this game more, especially since I'm skint and my husband would be pissed if he knew I was dissapointed in it since he was gagging for borderands DLC.



anyway thats just my thoughts - maybe I'll put it down for a while and go back to DA:O then I might feel like picking it back up again.

#46
RhythmlessNinja

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I found nothing wrong with ME2, it's fresh, more detail to the crew, lame inventory scratched, boring planet exploration scratched, great story, what else can I ask for? The only thing that I found lacking, was crew dialogue. Especially  Garrus after finishing his loyalty, & the chicks if you tell them you want no romance..all convos are over. Thats the only thing I'm kinda down about, but they somewhat make up for it whenever you do romance em. Talis especially was well written.

So yeah, if there was anything that we're missing...I would say more crew dialogue. People are disapointed about the game because they set expectations way too high, myself on the other hand, have learned to not do that after the crap storm Square has been putting out over the years.

Modifié par RhythmlessNinja, 13 février 2010 - 03:58 .


#47
Shadowfire67

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It's the middle part of the trilogy. Wait for ME3 and everything will come together. People were thinking the same way with Empire Strikes Back.

#48
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They did exactly what the needed to do in this story, and there were definitely a few huge surprises in the game that were awesome to behold. However, I really didn't like that the whole Specter and Council thing were almost non-existent in the game, and the overall ad campaign to me made it seem like they were trying to just get a new audience as well. I hope that this doesn't impact ME3 by making it a mission based character driven story without an epic overarching story.

This story was still really good, but perhaps adding more to the collector's story and make a true nemesis out of the Collector General, so it felt like you were chasing them around... getting clues and collecting characters at the same time. The whole Harbinger/Collector General connection should have been a mystery that is slowly unveiled along the journey instead and explored deeper.

I have to say though, this did feel pretty natural in terms of motivation and goals when taken from the reapers/collectors perspective.

Edit: It would also have been nice if there was some additional exposition on the collector goals. The 2nd book covered more about it than the game did and having completed the game, it is quite interesting that they have been taking very specific types of people from each species before seemingly settling on humans. Vigil from ME1 explained so much which made it all the more epic... this game had no such thing.

Modifié par Effective Mass, 13 février 2010 - 04:01 .


#49
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Mordin and Tali story arcs were fantastic. Legion was a cool twist. Everything else was lackluster like the real writer was laid off and they used interns to "finish up". I also think this is what happened to planet exploration and vehicle combat. Interns are ****s and wanted us to like the game but be pissed off that it's not completed

#50
Shockwave81

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scrappydoo555 wrote...

not enough reflections of ME1, after all that was said about importing saves and it results in emails and background news reports.

so many unanswered questions left a feeling of what was it all for. there was no real progression. The collectors weren't in ME1 they just turn up as a major threat and get killed so I'm guessing no collectors in ME3 whats the point in that.


I think I probably would come to really like these characters if I played the game more but I've completed it 3 times now and the thought off scanning more planets really puts me off. Maybe if there was a way that after each playthrough the amount of resources at the begining went up but I just can't face anymore scanning. and the 50,000 isn't enough it's just a med bay upgrade

I really want to like this game more, especially since I'm skint and my husband would be pissed if he knew I was dissapointed in it since he was gagging for borderands DLC.
 


Agreed, agreed, agreed. 

Here I was thinking that ME2 would have kept me entertained until ME3, I'm hoping that will still be the case.

ME1 maintained my interest for two and a bit years, but the only reason ME2 will continue to pique my curiosity until ME3, is the much touted DLC - which I am actually ashamed to admit.

A whole team is supposedly dedicated to creating the DLC, but what are the chances that they'll outdo the main dev team in terms of universe depth?

In saying all of this, I have to applaud the designers of the Normandy SR1 crash site. I actually enjoyed taking in the atmosphere and even felt slightly sad at seeing my little ship in pieces everywhere. 

Perhaps I'm missing something? Maybe I'm not appreciating the true artistry of ME2? Maybe ME2 will all fall into place when ME3 is released?

I'm trying really hard here. I'm telling myself that the casual atmosphere on the Citadel in ME2 (if you don't kill the original council of course) is supposed to be ironic, given the fact you know that something utterly terrible is coming.

Maybe we're not able to visit many extinction-event planets because we'll experience it firsthand in ME3?

I'm actually wanting to play ME2 just to revel in the galactic community's ignorance before it's stripped away, assuming that it even happens.

Modifié par Shockwave81, 13 février 2010 - 04:20 .