218 réponses à ce sujet

[Pauravi]

Lao Dan wrote...

After playing ME2 once I thought... Okay its a different game,but not too bad.
Halfway through the second game I thought...This just isn't holding my interest.

I finished ME ~10 times. I can't get through ME2 twice.

I feel exactly the opposite way.  I played ME only a couple times.  In fact I only played through it more than once because I originally got it for the XB, but I wanted ME2 for PC, so I bought it for PC and played through a couple times for import purposes.

To me, as awesome as ME was in story and dialogue, it felt tedious to do the second time.  Managing that monstrous inventory, having to shuffle equipment around all the time.  Even with guns and armor in every box and crate in the game, they were all the same anyway.  There were only 2 models of any weapon, and they weren't different except in the numbers, so getting new equipment was like a big "so what?".  Not only that, though, but the gameplay.  The main missions were awesome, but all the UNC quests were prefab building after prefab building, plopped on some generic map that looked like it had been created automatically by a computer.  The different planets all were exactly the same except for the color.

In ME2 eveything is so distinct, each mission is different, and each class is different.  The planets actually look like planets now, each area is unique, and every mission is a pleasure.  I'm already on my 3rd playthrough and the game just barely came out.  By comparison, I've only played through ME1 3 times total since it came out as well.

[DeeKay17]

allow me to disagree with you. me2 might be as not dramatic as the first one, but only by a tiny bit. and thing that is responsible for that the way in which it was delivered. in me2 aside from main story eleven more were present, each of which was quite dramatic, and together could easily carry you away from the main one. in me there were quests, of course, on different planets, but they were simply 'shoot them all' without explaining why. the only exception probably would be bring down the sky. another thing is that in the original game the story covered with mystery - you did not know who reapers were, what happened to proteans, what the saren was up to, and what was up with his ship, that is sovereign. all these things kept you intrigued up until last to missions, where everything became clear and you, or at least i, were like 'oh sh.. the galaxy is about to be destroyed...' and now you face with me2, and right in the beginning you discover what happens to the humans, in the middle of the game you figure out who collectors are, and at the end what collectors were doing with men. so simply saying, all of the drama in me was at the end, concentrated and beautifully delivered in a 'punch', while in me2 it was distributed throughout the game which made it kind of diluted.

anyway, me2 one of the best games i have played.

[mohelo]

Bring Drew Karpyshyn back to write ME3!

[Fhaileas]

Pauravi wrote...

To me, as awesome as ME was in story and dialogue, it felt tedious to do the second time.  Managing that monstrous inventory, having to shuffle equipment around all the time.  Even with guns and armor in every box and crate in the game, they were all the same anyway.  There were only 2 models of any weapon, and they weren't different except in the numbers, so getting new equipment was like a big "so what?".  Not only that, though, but the gameplay. 

Are we forgetting about the fact that there were Light, medium and heavy armors, of the Human, Turian, Quarian and Krogan kind with different stats (regardless of the roman numerals next to the name) in ME1? People who liked the first one liked the variety. Stores with a large number of items to choose from. ME2 has stores with 4 items max, 2 being goldfish and 1 being a model ship.

Outfitting your characters was so integral to the gameplay of Mass Effect 1, I cannot believe they'd alter the core style so much by replacing it with the crappy system Mass Effect 2 uses. The new system is so insipid it actually verges on being confusing, because you're always feeling like there should be more to it, if only you could figure it out. But you can't. Because there really is nothing to it. New items and upgrades are simply handed to you as you wander around the levels. I would prefer to happen across some unique randomly generated item that some guy on a remote world drops. The combinations of upgrades and weapons and abilities were nearly endless in ME1, and heavily rewarded people who put the time and thought into making really creative combinations. It makes our characters "our own" and adds to our emotional investment in the story. Without character customization, we are left without the ability to truly create the character that we relate to. Why did they remove it in ME2!? Terrible move.

The main missions were awesome, but all the UNC quests were prefab building after prefab building, plopped on some generic map that looked like it had been created automatically by a computer.  The different planets all were exactly the same except for the color.

Personally I thought the planets were different enough. Sure we'd all have loved them to be ten times as big and populated with hundreds of different species, foliage, buildings and characters. Fortunately for me I'm aware that time, budget and technology are limiting factor. So perhaps that's why I liked the planets of ME1 much more than you. I loved the Mako and find planet scanning less resolving the problem and more taking out everything fun about Mako sections and leaving the boring collectathon aspect in. Mako was great for the vehicle/foot action and gorgeous vistas. What people hated were the 90 degree mountains, RC car handling and Simon Says collecting. Planet scanning is nothing but a variant of the latter.

Anyway rejoice, because apparently your opinion was the popular one and now you have what I consider the dullest, mind-numbingly boring planet exploration mechanic we'll probably ever seen in a videogame.There's really no unique characters, dialog, or stories to them. It's just "this base is overrun" or "some mechs are out of control" followed up with some combat.

Modifié par Fhaileas, 14 février 2010 - 04:14 .

[Wildhide]

I gotta say, I didn't see much customization in equiping Spectre gear + Scorpion armor, and upgrading to the next level of that whenever it dropped, and using the same couple of upgrades, just their better versions.



I think people see all the stuff and think YAY VARIETY, when it's really not, it's a very tight selection of useful items surrounded by junk to falsely inflate it.



There wasn't any customization, just very minor tweaks that had little impact on the gameplay except for first aid mods.

[Wildhide]

And having armor for each race... how is that variety? The armor is the same for each race, no difference at all, except for who could wear it. It's even the same skin, just stretched for a different model.

[ODST 3]

I only wished the final mission could have been longer. Otherwise, I loved it.

[TheOtherWind]

deimosmasque wrote...

I respectfully disagree, TheOtherWind, after the first game we had a vague threat that actually seemed to be defeated soundly. Sovereign was destroyed, the Council was on your side, and humanity had its place among the stars. ME2 through that all for a loop, we found that the Reapers had more agents then just Sovereign, that the Council was more interested in political expediency that handling a true threat, and that in the end the only person Shepard could count on to handle the threat was him/herself.
His new crew exemplifies that, in my opinion. After two years most of them have moved on, either buying the party line or having made sacrifices for what they see as the greater good. A new team was required. So Shepard went out and got it. He may have compromised some of his own ideals, but sometimes to do the right thing you have to do what you don't want to do.
The second game isn't about facing the same threat, it's in realizing that the threat is greater than we first realized. And that we are alone in facing in. At the end of ME1 we thought we had basically foiled the Reapers, they couldn't use the Citadel as a Mass Relay anymore, they couldn't sneak attack the hub of the Galaxy, which is how the Reapers had always won their Galactic Purges. It seemed all that was left was to make sure they could never come back. There is no impending war, just Geth Extremist mop up. As even Miranda recognizes in the o penning.
Enter the Collectors, another tool of the Reapers that were ready and able to pave the way for the Reaper return. If the Human-Reaper (or Pants as some jokingly call him) had been completed, they would have a new herald to attempt to activate the Citadel. Instead it is stopped before it can begin. A much different situation.
But now, we know that the Reapers have other allies in Galactic Space, and just maybe they are heading to the Milky Way without their sneak-attack plan. Now it is real. Now it is pending. The only question is, will anyone help Shepard, or is he still alone.

The reapers a vague threat? Soverign was essencially the inside man for the reapers and he was almost able to take out then entire council and the citadel on its own. The threat was already quite present and we were well aware that there were more of them and they needed to be erradicated. We also knew that the reapers used indoctrination to use species to do their dirty work. We saw that in ME1 as well with the Keepers. We know they are trapped in deep space but what are they doing to get out? Something along those lines would have been nice. 

The whole new crew thing was completely unnecessary in moving the plot along. The collectors were cool but they were severely lacking as an antagonist. And if I remember correctly the reapers need the dark relay to be activated to enter citadel space so unless the terminator was planning on constructing a mass relay I don't see what good he was going to do.

[TheOtherWind]

The council did not believe the Reapers existed in ME1

The council did not believe the Reapers exist in ME2 or they are just covering up the truth. In any case there was VERY little interaction with the governing body within this game so it is difficult to tell their motivations. I guess a gang of reapers is going to fly into the citadel and I'm going to have to save them again in order for them to agree with me. It would have been nice if within an epilogue they showed shepard convincing the council that reapers exist or even showing how the reapers get out of dark space.



I feel like ME1 and 2 are not a trilogy. I could skip from 1 to 3 and miss very little. I could start with 2 and jump right in since it essentially casts aside every thing you do in ME1

[Computron2000]

Chilly Breeze wrote...
Did anyone else feel like this?  Or can anyone offer me some reassurance and point out that I simply went about it in the wrong way?

Its a matter of taste.

The first ME is very much like an action film. We knew little about Garrus ("i like to thank you commander", blah blah) and Tali ("yes shepard?", blah blah). More about Liara, Wrex, Ashley and Kaidan but still nothing much except a rough outline. Lots of big explosions, shooting, etc

The second ME is much more like a drama, where it expounds on the characters, motivations and background. The characters *are* the story. The final mission, the suicide mission brings back the action flim feel but with a major change, it ties everything up by forcing you to hold the lives of the characters in your hand through your decision making.

If you had no spoilers, you might have lost team mates you actually like (very visible in forums where players groan they lost their favoriate character to seeker swarms or rockets to the head, etc. A massive success on the part of bioware). if you feel nothing for the NPCs that make up the team members, the entire game will feel much like a waste of time except for the final mission.

Its like watching a flim that plays out like "love actually" until the last 15 minutes where its "Rambo part III".

How they are going to do ME3 is going to be up to them but there are sure to be action sequences

[RighteousRage]

The game followed the exact same formula that every other Bioware game has, so it didn't really seem more or less epic to me than the others.

1. Be a moderately good fighter guy

2. Have a call to action

3. Enter the game's respective secret society/elite group

4. Take your default team around various villages/planets collecting other teammates and doing side quests conveniently located on the sidelines of the straight paths that comprise the locations

5. Do intermediate story mission that reveals some plot twist

6. Have long chats with teammates/commence romance plots

7. Epic music, go to the final battle

8. Every team member present at final battle, but somehow you or a small squad get separated to fight the final boss

9. Final boss has lots of special effects flying around him, dies and comes back at least once, beat final boss

10. Epic music, narrow escape or victory scene, some people chat for 3 minutes to provide the denoument, main character congratulation screen with heroic music

Modifié par RighteousRage, 14 février 2010 - 08:42 .

[Kuari999]

I disagree with the OP... the main story wasn't progressed much, but we got to learn more about the different chars... the exception being Kaidan/Ashley, which frankly were pretty well developed in the first one whether you liked them as much... the plot was straight forward, but there WAS one revelation, just like Empire had its "I'm your father" revelation... simply that there's a lot more to the Reapers than we initially realized. Could this technically have been turned into an 8 hour game easily? Yeah, but you lose all the char development among Tali/Garrus an the new people.



As for the item system, my only complaint was losing the upgrade slots... I want my Medical Exoskeleton back!

[Noted Literally]

TheOtherWind wrote...

deimosmasque wrote...

I respectfully disagree, TheOtherWind, after the first game we had a vague threat that actually seemed to be defeated soundly. Sovereign was destroyed, the Council was on your side, and humanity had its place among the stars. ME2 through that all for a loop, we found that the Reapers had more agents then just Sovereign, that the Council was more interested in political expediency that handling a true threat, and that in the end the only person Shepard could count on to handle the threat was him/herself.
His new crew exemplifies that, in my opinion. After two years most of them have moved on, either buying the party line or having made sacrifices for what they see as the greater good. A new team was required. So Shepard went out and got it. He may have compromised some of his own ideals, but sometimes to do the right thing you have to do what you don't want to do.
The second game isn't about facing the same threat, it's in realizing that the threat is greater than we first realized. And that we are alone in facing in. At the end of ME1 we thought we had basically foiled the Reapers, they couldn't use the Citadel as a Mass Relay anymore, they couldn't sneak attack the hub of the Galaxy, which is how the Reapers had always won their Galactic Purges. It seemed all that was left was to make sure they could never come back. There is no impending war, just Geth Extremist mop up. As even Miranda recognizes in the o penning.
Enter the Collectors, another tool of the Reapers that were ready and able to pave the way for the Reaper return. If the Human-Reaper (or Pants as some jokingly call him) had been completed, they would have a new herald to attempt to activate the Citadel. Instead it is stopped before it can begin. A much different situation.
But now, we know that the Reapers have other allies in Galactic Space, and just maybe they are heading to the Milky Way without their sneak-attack plan. Now it is real. Now it is pending. The only question is, will anyone help Shepard, or is he still alone.

The reapers a vague threat? Soverign was essencially the inside man for the reapers and he was almost able to take out then entire council and the citadel on its own. The threat was already quite present and we were well aware that there were more of them and they needed to be erradicated. We also knew that the reapers used indoctrination to use species to do their dirty work. We saw that in ME1 as well with the Keepers. We know they are trapped in deep space but what are they doing to get out? Something along those lines would have been nice. 

The whole new crew thing was completely unnecessary in moving the plot along. The collectors were cool but they were severely lacking as an antagonist. And if I remember correctly the reapers need the dark relay to be activated to enter citadel space so unless the terminator was planning on constructing a mass relay I don't see what good he was going to do.

The issue with the collectors is that they come out of left field, after maybe one mention in the first game.  So we fight them and defeat them, but after that we're back at square one.  It's like if the Two Towers consisted of the fellowship going to fight some dragon that came out of nowhere to threaten the shire.  And yeah, they beat the dragon but its all basically a gigantic side thing that came out of nowhere and doesn't really fit into the main plot.

That said its pretty apparent what bioware meant to do, its a plot about developing your companions.  But I would argue that that plot was not executed well at all, and at the end of the game there's no demonstrateable change in the character of any of your companions.  It'll be like in ME1 where you spend all the game discussing paragon/renegade with Garrus but nothing ever comes of it in ME2.

[We Tigers]

Pauravi wrote...

Lao Dan wrote...

After playing ME2 once I thought... Okay its a different game,but not too bad.
Halfway through the second game I thought...This just isn't holding my interest.

I finished ME ~10 times. I can't get through ME2 twice.

I feel exactly the opposite way.  I played ME only a couple times.  In fact I only played through it more than once because I originally got it for the XB, but I wanted ME2 for PC, so I bought it for PC and played through a couple times for import purposes.

To me, as awesome as ME was in story and dialogue, it felt tedious to do the second time.  Managing that monstrous inventory, having to shuffle equipment around all the time.  Even with guns and armor in every box and crate in the game, they were all the same anyway.  There were only 2 models of any weapon, and they weren't different except in the numbers, so getting new equipment was like a big "so what?".  Not only that, though, but the gameplay.  The main missions were awesome, but all the UNC quests were prefab building after prefab building, plopped on some generic map that looked like it had been created automatically by a computer.  The different planets all were exactly the same except for the color.

In ME2 eveything is so distinct, each mission is different, and each class is different.  The planets actually look like planets now, each area is unique, and every mission is a pleasure.  I'm already on my 3rd playthrough and the game just barely came out.  By comparison, I've only played through ME1 3 times total since it came out as well.

Very much with you on this one.  The huge variety among teammates and the way all the classes play so uniquely this time around makes it a really great experience to try several times.

ME2 successfully eliminated all of the tedium of ME1.  As great a game as it was, you're right--the inventory system was terrible, and there really wasn't much to the upgrading except "hope the Hanar on the Citadel has some Colossus or Predator armor for the characters you're using this time."  In ME2, I really felt that the characters, relationships, and gameplay were all at the forefront.  Streamlining isn't a bad word if the only thing it gets rid of is the 20 minutes you have spend every few hours turning all your old upgrades into omnigel.

[harazal]

Its sort of annoying to see people trash ME2, but feelings aside, i do think people have some very heavy rose tinted glasses on.

I've gone through ME1 now 9 or 10 times. I love that game, i still remember the feeling when i heard the opening track, and the joy when i killed saren for the first time. But as much as i love it, i get the feeling from a lot of what i'm reading that people are are a little out of touch with reality.

ME was a shallow game. I say that with the greatest of respect to it, but if you scratch the surface on it, you don't get too far. You just happen to be in the right place at the right time, to follow up with a rogue spectre. You get made a spectre based on a sound recording from a vagrant, get released from military duty, go off and save 3 colonies, and then manage to find your way to a lost planet, and save galactic civilization. To this day, i dont understand why killing saren would kill nazara. Dont get me wrong, i loved the game, but lets not pretend that the story was the amazing, well written epic. It had its flaws and its holes.

ME2 was a far more personal story. Yes, it was a reboot, but for the big picture on the ME universe, it was fascinating. I learnt so much about the krogan, the salarians, the quarians and the geth. I actually got to see a far more sci fi orientated story than before. Ilium and omega particuarly stand out.

When i cleared the sucide mission with all the crew alive, i pumped my fist and roared yes. I went to bed and couldn't stop thinking about the game. Unlike ME1, i cared about the small events, not the big ones. My own shepard, a ruthless solider (in my 'prime') timeline did progress as a character. From the man that threw away people on torphin, he has become someone that cares about his people, and has started to think about the costs of his action.

ME2 was smaller in scope, but deeper. It has reenforced my love for the setting, and i cannot wait for ME3. I personally think if you didnt enjoy ME2, then you simply didnt get it

Modifié par harazal, 14 février 2010 - 09:30 .

[deimosmasque]

TheOtherWind wrote...

The reapers a vague threat? Soverign was essencially the inside man for the reapers and he was almost able to take out then entire council and the citadel on its own. The threat was already quite present and we were well aware that there were more of them and they needed to be erradicated. We also knew that the reapers used indoctrination to use species to do their dirty work. We saw that in ME1 as well with the Keepers. We know they are trapped in deep space but what are they doing to get out? Something along those lines would have been nice. 

Vague as in we don't really know if they had any other options, we didn't know what they did besides "Harvested the galaxy."  Yes Saren almost took out the entire council, using methods that aren't repeatable with Soveriegn dead.  The Reapers hearld is gone and at the end of ME1 we have no indication that the Reapers have any other way to get back and do their grand sneak attack that allows them to wipe out the galaxy.

The whole new crew thing was completely unnecessary in moving the plot along. The collectors were cool but they were severely lacking as an antagonist. And if I remember correctly the reapers need the dark relay to be activated to enter citadel space so unless the terminator was planning on constructing a mass relay I don't see what good he was going to do.

Firstly the "Whole Crew Thing" is the plot.  The Collectors are a McGuffin to set up the team-building plot of ME2.

Secondly the Reapers use the Citadel as a Mass Relay to arrive in our space.  The keepers were compromised by the Protheans so Soveriegn needed to directly interface with the Citadel Relay in order to actually activate it.  That's what the Human Reaper is for, to act as a new hearld to activate the Citadel Relay.

[We Tigers]

Noted Literally wrote...
The issue with the collectors is that they come out of left field, after maybe one mention in the first game.  So we fight them and defeat them, but after that we're back at square one.  It's like if the Two Towers consisted of the fellowship going to fight some dragon that came out of nowhere to threaten the shire.  And yeah, they beat the dragon but its all basically a gigantic side thing that came out of nowhere and doesn't really fit into the main plot.

I don't think they really come out of left field given that they're being controlled by the Reapers, were used by the Reapers to take out their #1 enemy, and are working directly towards the interest of the Reapers.  Additionally, plot development doesn't necessarily require a start to finish progression.  ME2 is a sideways mover and full of depth; you learn a lot more about the Mass Effect world, about what happened to the Protheans, about the roots of Geth, Quarian, Krogan, and Asari society.  Yes, at the end of the day, Shepard still needs to beat the Reapers, but now the universe he's defending seems that much more full and worth fighting for.

[We Tigers]

booo double post.  That Legion sure is dreamy!

Modifié par We Tigers, 14 février 2010 - 09:30 .

[scrappydoo555]

I can't see how the new crew can really be called the plot of the game. I think the new crew is the problem from the game. there is just too many of them and as they can all die, they can't really have anything more than cameos in the next game. which makes the character development in this game sort of pointless. As for the rest of the plot we're no further forward than at the end of ME1

[deimosmasque]

I didn't say the new crew was the plot, I said that recruiting the new crew, to go on a suicide mission, to try to save people they don't even know and in some cases isn't even the same species, is the plot of the game.

[spernus]

sherryb1 wrote...

I agree with Nyaore. The second installment in a triology always seems to consign itself to mediocrity. That being said, I think ME2 was a good shooter with just enough story (in that order!). I did two playthoughs, but it was tough to find the motivation. Shooters don't have high re-playability, but RPGs do.

It depend on the shooter in question and personal taste.

I find Uncharted 2 to be highly replayable because of the awesome setpiece and third person shooting mechanics.

Halo:reach will be a sandbox fps and the gameplay does seem amazing,so I wouldn't be surprised if it's highly replayable as well.

As for ME 2,the story didn't move forward in relation to the reapers.It was an awesome sci-rpg all the same for me.I enjoyed the pletora of location and the personal stories.The "gunplay" isn't as good as in Gears of war or Uncharted,but there is hope for the future of the rpg genre with game like Mass effect 2 and Demon's soul which significantly improve upon the gameplay.

I am sure that some gamer will finish Mass effect 2 numerous time,especially since they will be helped by DLC and expansion until they wait for the final chapter.

[Noted Literally]

We Tigers wrote...

Noted Literally wrote...
The issue with the collectors is that they come out of left field, after maybe one mention in the first game.  So we fight them and defeat them, but after that we're back at square one.  It's like if the Two Towers consisted of the fellowship going to fight some dragon that came out of nowhere to threaten the shire.  And yeah, they beat the dragon but its all basically a gigantic side thing that came out of nowhere and doesn't really fit into the main plot.

I don't think they really come out of left field given that they're being controlled by the Reapers, were used by the Reapers to take out their #1 enemy, and are working directly towards the interest of the Reapers.  Additionally, plot development doesn't necessarily require a start to finish progression.  ME2 is a sideways mover and full of depth; you learn a lot more about the Mass Effect world, about what happened to the Protheans, about the roots of Geth, Quarian, Krogan, and Asari society.  Yes, at the end of the day, Shepard still needs to beat the Reapers, but now the universe he's defending seems that much more full and worth fighting for.

They come out of left field in that we have no reason to regard them as an enemy at the end of Mass Effect 1.  Basically it's pretty apparent that they were invented essentially whole cloth for inclusion into Mass Effect 2, and aren't going to significantly impact ME3 (I mean they're dead, so...)  They're essentially a monster-of-the-week.

And no, development doesn't require start to finish progression, but milestones are important in order to give a sense of any progression.  I'd agree that ME2 added much to the setting, but that in and of itself is not enough to make a good narrative.  It certainly isn't mutually exclusive with a good narrative.

[spernus]

mohelo wrote...

Bring Drew Karpyshyn back to write ME3!

Lol,he was one of the writer for Mass effect 2 and should be the lead on ME 3 since The old republic should be finished by mid 2011.

[scrappydoo555]

deimosmasque wrote...

I didn't say the new crew was the plot, I said that recruiting the new crew, to go on a suicide mission, to try to save people they don't even know and in some cases isn't even the same species, is the plot of the game.

Ok, point taken. I stand by what I said though, since they can die and therefore can't have a major role in ME3, the "whole crew thing" is pointless.

[deimosmasque]

Well if they can return or not is still open to conjecture. Wrex could die and he had a role to play in ME2. And considering you actually have to TRY to have them all die I can see how bioware can get away with including them all in ME3 and just have certain situations cut or character replacement (as they did with Wrex) if they die.

spernus wrote...

mohelo wrote...



Bring Drew Karpyshyn back to write ME3!

Lol,he was one of the writer for Mass effect 2 and should be the lead on ME 3 since The old republic should be finished by mid 2011.

Everytime some one talks about "Bringing back Drew Karpyshyn" I always think... um he's listed first in the Lead Writer Credits.