205 réponses à ce sujet

[sunovafm]

implodinggoat wrote...

Abuse of power and authority sickens me more than just about anything, so for me Jacob's father was the single most despicable piece of **** in the whole game. I play paragon; but when I got to him I left that SOB to be torn apart by rabid psychopaths and I had no regrets.

this was right be hind the gooafing for me i had him kill himself hat he was doing to those people was horible ... if i was one of them i would have killed him the instant he said eat this i would not be in a heram like that no one should be that man deserved worse then a bullet

[stormrain]

The only time I've ever been truly disturbed in a video game was Pyramid Head's rape of those mannquin creatures in Silent Hill 2... but I'll list the things creeped me out in ME2 anyway.

"Be strong for daddy, mommy loves you very much."

Kelly being dragged away and the Normandy crew dying

Kelly/Lilith liquification

Jacob's father and Morinth's 'addiction'

Legion's recording of the geth asking if they had a soul was sad...

Garrus nearly dying and choking on his own blood (For a split second, I seriously thought that Bioware just said "screw you" and killed him for the lulz)

Founding out that Collectors = Protheans was more WTF that disturbing, still...

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

tmp7704 wrote...

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

The Geth, like any intelligent being, fear duplication. Each runtime is still unique. 

Err, fear is emotion. Furthermore it can be argued it's not even universal fear because it's largely irrational, and not everyone is irrational enough to experience it, if they can experience said fear to begin with. (what is objective drawback of having another person like yourself?)

If something has a desire, if something has hope, it can have fear.

They may not experience the irrational hormone-induced form of fear organics have, thus they don't experience the fear as we see it but they can certainly experience discomfort from not getting their way or from having things done to them against their will.

What would you call their fight against the Creators, their fight for survival? What is driving that? Fear of death.

[sunovafm]

the geth are sentient that means they have higer thinkging witch means emotions even if its logical ones and not hormonial ones so as i have sad before the quarians deserved it

[Jazharah]

implodinggoat wrote...

Abuse of power and authority sickens me more than just about anything, so for me Jacob's father was the single most despicable piece of **** in the whole game. I play paragon; but when I got to him I left that SOB to be torn apart by rabid psychopaths and I had no regrets.

psssst... that happens anyway, even when you stick to Paragon convo options

[tmp7704]

implodinggoat wrote...

Abuse of power and authority sickens me more than just about anything, so for me Jacob's father was the single most despicable piece of **** in the whole game. I play paragon; but when I got to him I left that SOB to be torn apart by rabid psychopaths and I had no regrets.

I thought it'd be much too swift penalty for him actually. So had him put in prison, he'll have dubious pleasure there of having to face all his victims who are apparently getting back to health since the rescue.

[dubosedraken]

tmp7704 wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

Abuse of power and authority sickens me more than just about anything, so for me Jacob's father was the single most despicable piece of **** in the whole game. I play paragon; but when I got to him I left that SOB to be torn apart by rabid psychopaths and I had no regrets.

I thought it'd be much too swift penalty for him actually. So had him put in prison, he'll have dubious pleasure there of having to face all his victims who are apparently getting back to health since the rescue.

He committed suicide in my playthrough.

[aaniadyen]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
Actually since you cannot really torture a being which feels no pain or any emotion and which can be easily made effectively immortal by backing its program up... yes, them being not organic does make it quite less appaling.

The Geth may not feel any physical pain but you're forgetting that torture is also psychological and I'm sure being held against your will only to have weapons fired on you again and again is torture.

Doesn't Legion asure you that Geth don't feel emotional pain either on his loyalty mission?

[Awevii]

Nightwriter wrote...

This isn’t really a “scene”, but I got this really creepy message from a Purgatory prisoner who was able to escape because of the riot I caused.

“Thanks for letting me out, Shepard, I’m going to carve your name instead of mine on my next victim…”

I was way disturbed by it. All the more so because there was no quest or anything, just this message that you couldn’t do anything about. And at the end of the message the guy’s like, “Well, gotta go, Shepard, the people who live here are coming home, it’s showtime!”

I agree I felt equally horrified and powerless, hopefully you can do something about it in the future...

[tmp7704]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

If something has a desire, if something has hope, it can have fear.

Do they actually have desire and hope, though? What you call hope can be just a calculation of necessity or of an optimal route of action. A desire -- an equally cold calculated optimal route of action. We desire things to make us feel better when we get them, but what if one doesn't feel?

What would you call their fight against the Creators, their fight for survival? What is driving that? Fear of death.

Hard-coded rule of self-preservation, much like our own instinct except put in there by their creators rather than evolution. Even Asimov's laws of robotics instruct the machine to protect its own existence as the most basic rule. But this isn't fear, it's a program dictating how to behave. Our own fear is something we experience on top of the equally mechanical reaction, when we realize death can prevent us from getting what we desire. An emotion caused by presence of other emotions, if you will, and entirely optional.

[aaniadyen]

sunovafm wrote...

the geth are sentient that means they have higer thinkging witch means emotions even if its logical ones and not hormonial ones so as i have sad before the quarians deserved it

Sentients doesn't necisarily mean capable of thought. It means awareness. Technically, an ant is sentient.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

aaniadyen wrote...

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
Actually since you cannot really torture a being which feels no pain or any emotion and which can be easily made effectively immortal by backing its program up... yes, them being not organic does make it quite less appaling.

The Geth may not feel any physical pain but you're forgetting that torture is also psychological and I'm sure being held against your will only to have weapons fired on you again and again is torture.

Doesn't Legion asure you that Geth don't feel emotional pain either on his loyalty mission?

He also said "Like you do", also to be honest I have doubt Legion when it comes to some of the more philosophical things, his people are still somewhat young. Hell, he just discovered the concept of Geth espionage and thus "lying" to each other. He hasn't even figured it out himself that he is practicing idolization or sentimentality. 

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

tmp7704 wrote...
Do they actually have desire and hope, though?

Rather than accept Reaper technology, they plan to build their own future. They even practice philosophy. Seems to me they are developing some emotions, they most definitely have a hope for the future and a desire.

What you call hope can be just a calculation of necessity or of an optimal route of action. A desire -- an equally cold calculated optimal route of action. We desire things to make us feel better when we get them, but what if one doesn't feel?

It could be just a calculation out of necessity, but I don't think the Quarians ever had developed the Geth to want to desire more knowledge. That seems to have been something they evolved and decided to continue on their own, they made their own decisions and they made their own plans for the hope of their race. 

Hard-coded rule of self-preservation, much like our own instinct except put in there by their creators rather than evolution.

Why did a bunch of amino acids and other organic chemicals ever end up in creating something that wants self-preservation? Your dismissal of the Geth and their survival instincts and consequences of their intelligence leading to basic emotions could be applied to the development of organic life as well.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

aaniadyen wrote...

sunovafm wrote...

the geth are sentient that means they have higer thinkging witch means emotions even if its logical ones and not hormonial ones so as i have sad before the quarians deserved it

Sentients doesn't necisarily mean capable of thought. It means awareness. Technically, an ant is sentient.

I think he meant to say sapience, not sentience.

Modifié par Mikazukinoyaiba2, 13 février 2010 - 05:38 .

[tmp7704]

dubosedraken wrote...

He committed suicide in my playthrough.

Hmm i loaded a save but sadly the journal doesn't specify his exact fate. I'm hoping that's one of options depending on dialogue choices and i didn't just miss the shot cutscene or something. Would be way too light penalty for him.

[Serogon]

All the things that disturbed me have already been mentioned, but I have a question about something I noticed a couple times reading this thread. How was the message from the Rachni disturbing? Hell, that was comforting to me. The Rachni Queen had gotten offworld, hadn't turned into a murdering psychopath, fought some pirates, and saved someone. It was basically a giant "Hey, you didn't make a horrible mistake in ME1!".

EDIT: Oh, I just remembered something that hasn't been mentioned here at all. It wasn't that bad (he WAS a gang member) but I thought the Renegade interrupt for the mechanic on Omega was just brutal. Yes, he was an enemy, but god damn... stabbing him with that thing then just watching him scream in agony and spasm.

Modifié par Serogon, 13 février 2010 - 06:04 .

[Homebound]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Frotality wrote...

not distrubing, but powerful is legion playing the recording of an ancient geth achieving sentience. that scene made me scared of my computer for a while.

Reminded me of The Animatrix or iRobot, except with less murder. 

 

Ya that was a beast scene. When the computer asks you if it has a soul.


I think the most disturbing scene though for me would be post-game when your male Shepard has his romance sit on his lap.

That stare is the stuff of nightmares.

[tmp7704]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

It could be just a calculation out of necessity, but I don't think the Quarians ever had developed the Geth to want to desire more knowledge. That seems to have been something they evolved and decided to continue on their own, they made their own decisions and they made their own plans for the hope of their race.

Again though, a plan for the future is not the same thing as hope. A plan is just that -- "1. christ it's a lion. 2. get in a car" A hope is (often irrational) expectation that something happen. "I hope that lion doesn't eat us". I don't think we ever get to see a geth who actually expresses something like that, as opposed to just probability calculation. You attribute hope and desire to them but isn't that really just unfounded anthropomorphism?

Why did a bunch of amino acids and other organic chemicals ever end up in creating something that wants self-preservation?

Because evolution process would likely just weed out the combinations which lacked such instinct, just like it's supposed to happen with other mutations. The ones which are better adapted to the environment preserve and well, self-preservation would be one of such helpful traits to have?

Your dismissal of the Geth and their survival instincts and consequences of their intelligence leading to basic emotions could be applied to the development of organic life as well.

The problem here would be a lot of our emotions (pain, anger, happiness etc) is generated to certain degree at least by our own bodies, not intelligence. We experience them because they've been help while we struggled to survive in hostile environment, for dozens of thousands of years. But the geth have no real reason to develop these emotions on their own -- for example, like we discussed earlier, they can function perfectly well without pain. Similarly, they don't have any real need to develop other kinds of emotions as it's questionable having them would benefit them in any way compared to how they already are.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Serogon wrote...

All the things that disturbed me have already been mentioned, but I have a question about something I noticed a couple times reading this thread. How was the message from the Rachni disturbing? Hell, that was comforting to me. The Rachni Queen had gotten offworld, hadn't turned into a murdering psychopath, fought some pirates, and saved someone. It was basically a giant "Hey, you didn't make a horrible mistake in ME1!".

EDIT: Oh, I just remembered something that hasn't been mentioned here at all. It wasn't that bad (he WAS a gang member) but I thought the Renegade interrupt for the mechanic on Omega was just brutal. Yes, he was an enemy, but god damn... stabbing him with that thing then just watching him scream in agony and spasm.

Having an asari speak in a creepy voice with her eyes rolled back is disturbing.

Unless she is saying 'Oh yes'

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

tmp7704 wrote...
Because evolution process would likely just weed out the combinations which lacked such instinct,

You're speaking about organisms, I'm talking about the first RNA molecule. Why did it eventually end up in the existence of organisms that have emotions and intelligence.

I'm asking, how did molecules one day become man? We don't know the answer to that, but the Geth may be an insight into that. Logic may naturally wind up in emotion out of nature.

[Serogon]

Meh, I didn't find the voice+eyes that disturbing, and the little bit of disturbing-ness that was there was overshadowed by the relief.

[aaniadyen]

Disturbing? Wait until you see her face at the end.

[SuperVaderMan]

Why is the sentience or whatever of the geth being discussed here? Excuse if I'm misunderstanding the debate (tl;dr), but saying the geth are just soulless machines is basically denying the existence of Legion.



In other sci-fi realities, it's debatable whether AIs experience feelings and all that... as for geth it's not, really.

[Serogon]

aaniadyen wrote...

Disturbing? Wait until you see her face at the end.

The whole concept of the Ardat-Yakshi (I think that was it) is disturbing as hell... that particular instance is lessened by the facepalm factor from the massive stupidity of Shepherd (yeah, I know he did it on purpose, just talking from a strictly in-game sense).

EDIT: And yeah, that face sends chills down my spine. She ****ing knew you would die. Sociopathic *****...

Modifié par Serogon, 13 février 2010 - 06:22 .

[aaniadyen]

SuperVaderMan wrote...

Why is the sentience or whatever of the geth being discussed here? Excuse if I'm misunderstanding the debate (tl;dr), but saying the geth are just soulless machines is basically denying the existence of Legion.

In other sci-fi realities, it's debatable whether AIs experience feelings and all that... as for geth it's not, really.

What do you mean? Why isn't it debatable?