19 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Guys,

On my latest DAO playthrough, I am doing a female elf mage, but I want to take advantage of the unlocked "Wynne goes nuclear on bloodmage" conversations.  However doing so means that instead of doing the Tower first (or nearly first), you really need to do the tower last which constitutes a major change in game play.

So far my mage is high level six and has just finished the Tower of Ishal and is about ready to head into Lothering (which is why I am asking advice now since to this point the game has been fairly linear).  I am wondering if I should go AW/BM or SH/BM support.  On the pro-side for AW/BM, I really haven't explored this aspect of being a mage so that would be new.  On the downside, it seems like I would be playing a warrior and calling it a mage.  On the pro-side for SH/BM, I would be able to get some major party support early.  On the down side, I've already done this.

She currently has (at level 6) [without modifications] Str and Dex of 10, Will of 16, Cun 14, Con 10, and Magic 34.  Yes I know the three points into Cun don't do anything for her as a mage but given the limitation above, I am going to have to sink in five points (ultimately) into Cun.  Her spells are Fireball (and prereqs), Miasma (and prereqs), Winter's Grasp, Arcane Bolt, and Spell Wisp.  I am looking to get Spell-Might and Mana-Clash as soon as I can.

Given the above, which route should I take (or should I erase the character and start over   .... actually it's soon enough in the game to do that....start over I mean).

Thanks in advance.

-Polaris

[mousestalker]

I can't advise you which to choose. However, you can play an AW two different ways. The first is as a magical warrior, emphasizing melee. The other is as a mage in armour. The choice is up to you. There are any number of posts on the forums about the first choice. The main thing to keep in mind about the second is that if armour gives a stamina bonus it also gives the same amount in mana to you as a AW. The armour acts as a counterbalance to the health hit you take as a blood mage.

[mosspit]

@IanPolaris: Why do you even wanna restart? Unless you are min/maxing, there is no reason why your char can't play sufficiently well.
I notice one of the problems is deciding on armour selection. Have you considered wades? Wades dragonskin(medium) armour gives neg fatigue + gd mp regen. It is even advisable for a non-AW to wear it since the 20str req can be met with items. For warrior type, the dragonscale(heavy) option more or less pays for itself in terms of fatigue. Switch the chest for evon's and you still retain the set bonus. As a AW melee, you can turn off the 10sec cd combat magic and enter caster mode wearing heavy armour. It will not be as effective as a pure caster but it is still feasible.

Modifié par mosspit, 13 février 2010 - 04:11 .

[IanPolaris]

Mosspit,



I'm not really thinking of restarting although in hindsight I am thinking the sleep line might have been better for support (I just hate how useless sleep is when doing Redcliff and that's when you need control the most). The problem with Wades is that you have to get the Drake scales to make it which means you have to beat the six drakes. For a pure mage, I'm not fond of any armor really simply because Reapers Robes are so good (esp if you combine it with stoneskin). For that matter I see little point in an AW for any armor that isn't Heavy or Massive for the same reason. Wade's Dragonskin/scale is a good choice....but you have to beat the dragon to get it (not an option at level 6 I'm afraid). I was thinking about Sofia's Armor and/or Cailan's Armor in the time being if going the melee route.



Don't be afraid of offending me. I'll decide for myself how I want to do it, but I was interested in everyone else's input especially if I do go the Mage-Warrior route.



-Polaris

[mosspit]

Well it is true if the dragonscale is not possible unless High Drag is killed. However, reaper's got a pretty hefty price tag, you wont be getting that within the 1st treat either. Unfortunately, AW has a pretty limited choice in terms of optimal armour. Well for a AW caster, it is similar to a pure caster with the survivability aspect kicking in after items are gotten. For a AW warrior, you need to look items that adds to stam/mana, stam/mana regen, -fatigue. All these gives the AW more casting potential besides sustaining SS if you need it. You might not get these at early game.

I am running a AW/BM at Landsmeet at a moment so Im at least speaking from some first hand experience. AW warrior route has a very weird early-mid game. You are definitely need to make some early game choices/tradeoffs if you wanna benefit the most out of a AW warrior.

[IanPolaris]

Thanks. In short what you seem to be telling me (and from what I am gathering as well in the early game), if you go the pure AW warrior route, you're going to suck (or at least be weak) in the early game because you aren't specced right to be a support mage and you don't have the gear (yet) to survive as an AW.



-Polaris

[mosspit]

Thats just about right. An AW warrior early game cannot do the casting/melee switch over effectively. You either set him up to spellcast while you build up your items or you wear heavy/massive and autohit like a warrior. Maybe you can spellcast wearing those armour but you need to suffer the fatigue even without combat magic and lyrium pot more often. Or you can even switch armour in mid combat but that will not make sense in terms of RP. I believe these are some of the alternatives you can play with.

Modifié par mosspit, 13 février 2010 - 05:29 .

[IanPolaris]

Ugh! I don't know how the rest of you do it, but I really am about to just start over and play a support mage from start to finish. I got pwned by the Lothering Wolves which has *never* happened before when doing pure mage or pure warrior/rogue class.



This just sucks. I am just not seeing how the late game payoff is worth it.



-Polaris

[mosspit]

Did you set your AW to tank? Before getting AW spec, your mage pretty much plays like any other spellcaster. You have fireball at your disposal which shd be enuff. He cant tank before lvl7 either, not to mention you did not get rock amour and arcane shield yet.

What I mean to say is that a pre-lvl7 AW plays like a normal spell caster. If you have no problems before, I dun see why you will have problems now. Can you be more specific?

[IanPolaris]

mosspit,



Not to sound too annoyed but I KNOW THAT. I hit level seven after I did the bandits. I KNOW I could have toasted the wolves easily with fireball. In fact I've done it multiple other times. However, I was already an AW in combat mode. Wearing heavy chain, I didn't have the mana to do what you say. That's why I say I got pwned by the wolves.



For the record I played on a bit and got the warden commander's armor (did Soldier's Peak first) and that one set of armor is making a big difference. Even so, until you hit level 12 or so (with Fade Shroud) I don't see how being an AW is worth it.



-Polaris

[mosspit]

how do you feel about casting and using up mana before activating combat magic? im sure you know about 50% fatigue CM gives. If you want your AW to spellcast and melee at the same time effectively, it is not gonna happen... not at the point of your game progress anywayz.

I am unsure of your definition of worthwhileness wrt to an AW and I dun wanna know. But if you think that playing an AW clashes with the way you wanna enjoy the game, then perhaps its not the way to go. However I can say that an AW (warrior or caster) will hold its own. Dun take it from me alone, just look at the posts out there that claims how unbalanced an AW is.

[IanPolaris]

Mossspit,

I am going to give up on it. Frankly I don't care two flying coppers about what everyone else thinks if what they think directly conflicts with my direct game experience. I have no doubt that at later levels the AW is unbalanced. No doubts at all. In fact with Wynne, I have given her AW just to boost her survivability a bit so I can see what you people are talking about.

However,

1. It's just too hard and too frustrating to micromanage your attribute gains and casting the way you must at low levels to make this worth playing IMHO.

2. You wind up (at least until level 12 by my best estimate) just being a substandard wizard most of the time anyway (and when you do go into combat you miss all of the time...yes even with Heroic offense and Miasma).

3. That means at the critical lower levels, IMHO the AW just doesn't hold up it's end of the bargin as a party member.

Again, seems to me that it's much more satisfying either being a Mage or a Warrior rather than being poor at both. If that makes me an inferior DAO player not up to forumite standards, so be it.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  I am well aware of the fatigue cost that combat magic invokes.  Until you are at higher levels and can get the higher level enhancements to Combat Magic, I fail to see it's worth it.  You just activate it when you are nearly out of mana and then whiff for the rest of the combat......I'd rather lyrium drink or at worst sit behind a glyph of repulsion and hammer away. At least then you are contributing.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 13 février 2010 - 09:15 .

[mosspit]

Well, it is natural to be pissed at subpar performance of an AW based on what you think he shd do. However, I do not think that it makes you inferior in any way and I apologise if I unintentionally implied so. But it is true that AW is not for everyone. I can say the same for any other classes/builds.

[IanPolaris]

mosspit wrote...

Well, it is natural to be pissed at subpar performance of an AW based on what you think he shd do. However, I do not think that it makes you inferior in any way and I apologise if I unintentionally implied so. But it is true that AW is not for everyone. I can say the same for any other classes/builds.

Don't worry about it.  I was posting annoyed and that's probably not a good idea.  You have been quite nice really, but I've seen on other boards too many cases where if you don't fall in line and agee that "X is obviously superior because everyone else does" then your ability as a player is suddenly questions (go to pretty much any RPG board and you see this). 

My problem with the AW is that while it's true (and I can see it) it might be overwhelming at high levels, how much of the game is really going to be played at the highest level?  Perhaps the last mission, the Landsmeet and the final battle I guess.  So to me, if an approach sucks eggs for 80% of the game and then is overwhelming for the final 20%, it's not a good approach.  Others my differ, but there it is.

Naturally it would be overpowering for the AW to be equal to a full warrior and cast all the spells as well as a normal mage.  Unfortunately what that means is until you get your items set up and can suck up blood (health) instead of mana (levels 15+ generally), the AW doesn't actually fulfill any party role particularly well (and I've notice the AW is notoriously suspectable to enemy status effects as well as whiffing at the early levels all too often).

I guess what I am saying is based on actually trying it from levels 7-10, I have concluded that the AW love and builds are overrated.  Take that for what you will.

-Polaris

[DJ0000]

Early game you should spellcast at the beginning of the battle and then switch on combat magic after mana has run out. You can always use Lyrium if you need more mana as well.



Also, if your whiffing, use spell might when before activating combat magic.



After getting the BM spec you will be able to cast all your spells off health without ever running out so persevere. By the end you'll love it.



I personally, find that my AW's are the single best party memeber through the whole game, not just the end. It's just that towards the end you can easily take everything on solo, before that I am still the one that destorys everything I just need a little help now and then.



Mabey it's just not your kind of thing.

[IanPolaris]

DJ0000 wrote...

Early game you should spellcast at the beginning of the battle and then switch on combat magic after mana has run out. You can always use Lyrium if you need more mana as well.

Sure, but if you are going to lyrium potion then why be an AW at all?  Seriously.

Also, if your whiffing, use spell might when before activating combat magic.

What with your copious perhaps 7 spells total?  It takes three spells to get spell might and at the very earily levels I was talking about, every spell needs to count.  If I take spell might at level 7 (to 9) then I'm not taking fireball or Miasma and frankly those are two much more useful spells.  I am a big fan of mana-clash, but let's talk reality here.

After getting the BM spec you will be able to cast all your spells off health without ever running out so persevere. By the end you'll love it.

Sure at levels 16+.  Getting there doesn't seem to be worth it.

I personally, find that my AW's are the single best party memeber through the whole game, not just the end. It's just that towards the end you can easily take everything on solo, before that I am still the one that destorys everything I just need a little help now and then.

Mabey it's just not your kind of thing.

No.  I think that AWs are badly overrated on these forums and I will be the annoying little boy that says the AW emperor has no cloths.  Until you GET the combos you are talking about (very high level characters people), you are better off forgetting you have spell-might at all.  [You must pump Dex for an AW regardless even with Spell Might and Combat Magic and THAT makes you a poorer mage at least in the early game.]

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 14 février 2010 - 09:26 .

[beancounter501]

While I agree that the AW is overrated, it is still very powerful. Easily one of the top specs in the game. If nothing more then for the ability to wear medium armor. Chainmain helps out at level 7. Especially if you did not take Rock Armor. And the fatigue is barely noticeable.

At level 7 an AW needs only three things: Combat Magic, Heroic Offense and the Combat Training skill line. Without putting a single point into dex a level 7 AW will have the same attack rating as a level 7 warrior with Combat Magic + Heroic Offense. I personally think it is a waste to rely on a ton of sustains.

Edit: and a level 7 warrior misses a lot as well!  But you are not normally sitting there watching your warrior auto attack.  So it is more noticeable when you turn on Combat Magic and watch your character.

Modifié par beancounter501, 14 février 2010 - 10:56 .

[Nauthiz84]

you could just start with blood mage at level 7 play a full caster till 14, save some points up for level 14, make a save, turn aw, try it and decide if you like it or not, if you don't just load the savegame and choose whatever other second orientation you want to try, be a happy panda.

I really like aw later on, but early on it's rather meh...

Well i generally like the idea of figther/mage hybrids, need more of those in rpgs...

[Nauthiz84]

buggy.... post didn't show up beside refreshing and i posted again :innocent:

Modifié par Nauthiz84, 15 février 2010 - 04:36 .

[DJ0000]

I never pump dex. I just pump magic, some con and very little dex(only after I have sufficient con) and I can just fine.



Sounds like it's just not your cup of tea. Fair enough.