467 réponses à ce sujet

[compuguy1088]

Looy wrote...

The Major one was the "Lets all pile into the Shuttle for no reason". It isn't a plot hole if your doing a mission, its just random if you arn't.

*sarcasm* They all really REALLY wanted to go to some nearby place to eat?

[Sniper11709]

Terminus Pi wrote...

glacier1701 wrote...

BioWare made ME1 PERIOD. All DemiUrge did was to port it over from the 360 to the PC. They did nothing to change the game other than to correct some minor issues so it would work on the PC.

I stand corrected. They didn't make it, but it's not PERIOD. I went to their site and it says there that they collaborated with Bioware even during the development stages of the 360 version. Their main job, however, was to focus on the PC version, but they did take part in the development of the original version.

You honestly think the people who brought us the buggy piece of crap known as Pinnacle Station made the first ME1 better, i want what your on.

[Mr Glow]

I just assumed Cerberus got a seeker from Faris Fieldsand forwarded it to Mordin.

[enormousmoonboots]

anmiro wrote...

How about Kaiden/ Ashley's miraculous escape from being abducted. They are one of the 1st people hit by the seeker swarms but some how eluded capture.

Yeah, and their subsequent doubt in you only makes it more baffling. Kaidan, were you not there for the part when giant bugs came out of nowhere and Collectors were walking around and there was a gigantic spaceship sitting over the colony? You really think Cerberus got a bunch of Collector suits and put on a show?

Horizon in general is really weird, plot-wise. The other colony-nappings had no witnesses, other than a delirious quarian (well, and a whole bunch of security footage, but that's another issue altogether). Horizon, you ended up saving a bunch of humans (Kaidan/Ashley, the mechanic, all the frozen people you pass by) and have evidence so solid it would instantly win you a Phoenix Wright case single-handedly that the Collectors are abducting colonies. What's the Alliance do about this? "Meh."

[Sniper11709]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

anmiro wrote...

How about Kaiden/ Ashley's miraculous escape from being abducted. They are one of the 1st people hit by the seeker swarms but some how eluded capture.

Yeah, and their subsequent doubt in you only makes it more baffling. Kaidan, were you not there for the part when giant bugs came out of nowhere and Collectors were walking around and there was a gigantic spaceship sitting over the colony? You really think Cerberus got a bunch of Collector suits and put on a show?

Horizon in general is really weird, plot-wise. The other colony-nappings had no witnesses, other than a delirious quarian (well, and a whole bunch of security footage, but that's another issue altogether). Horizon, you ended up saving a bunch of humans (Kaidan/Ashley, the mechanic, all the frozen people you pass by) and have evidence so solid it would instantly win you a Phoenix Wright case single-handedly that the Collectors are abducting colonies. What's the Alliance do about this? "Meh."

It's possible that Ashley/Kaidan are in stasis until after the ship leaves so they don't witness anything first hand. It's also possible that the stasis effect also makes it so they lose their  memory of the events just before the attack and the frozen colonists can be explained away as the stasis wearing off (machines self destructing ect) when the collecters leave to make sure there is no evidence of that sort.

Seriously is there a reason why some people call "plot hole" and all other sorts of things if they aren't spoon fed every little bit of information, use your bloody imaginations. To me it's plot hole if there is no reasonable explanation, not that you aren't told every little detail and actully have to help build the world yourself.

[tvai]

Here's the quick and dirty. The galaxy center beyond the Omega-4 relay is filled with plot holes.

Dangerous business

Modifié par tvai, 22 février 2010 - 01:54 .

[b1n0ry]

I just find it really silly having a giant HUMAN REAPER travel the stars and exterminate life.



What do you guys think of this?... The Reaper based on a species builds and operates a cuttlefish. So technically, Soverign is a ship with a Reaper inside navigating it.

[enormousmoonboots]

Sniper11709 wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

anmiro wrote...

How about Kaiden/ Ashley's miraculous escape from being abducted. They are one of the 1st people hit by the seeker swarms but some how eluded capture.

Yeah, and their subsequent doubt in you only makes it more baffling. Kaidan, were you not there for the part when giant bugs came out of nowhere and Collectors were walking around and there was a gigantic spaceship sitting over the colony? You really think Cerberus got a bunch of Collector suits and put on a show?

Horizon in general is really weird, plot-wise. The other colony-nappings had no witnesses, other than a delirious quarian (well, and a whole bunch of security footage, but that's another issue altogether). Horizon, you ended up saving a bunch of humans (Kaidan/Ashley, the mechanic, all the frozen people you pass by) and have evidence so solid it would instantly win you a Phoenix Wright case single-handedly that the Collectors are abducting colonies. What's the Alliance do about this? "Meh."

It's possible that Ashley/Kaidan are in stasis until after the ship leaves so they don't witness anything first hand. It's also possible that the stasis effect also makes it so they lose their  memory of the events just before the attack and the frozen colonists can be explained away as the stasis wearing off (machines self destructing ect) when the collecters leave to make sure there is no evidence of that sort.

Seriously is there a reason why some people call "plot hole" and all other sorts of things if they aren't spoon fed every little bit of information, use your bloody imaginations. To me it's plot hole if there is no reasonable explanation, not that you aren't told every little detail and actully have to help build the world yourself.

But your squadmates comment that the frozen people are aware when you examine them. If there was some memory-blanking effect, I'd think it would be mentioned.

I'm all for winning the no-prize, but I like important plot points to be well-clarified.

[Ramikadyc]

Anything you say to Ashley. Just replace Shepard's lines.



Shepard: An earthquake decimated Haiti. 230,000 people died. Don't you hear the news?

Ashley: I'd like to believe you, but I don't trust Cerberus.



Shepard: If I were to jump straight up, I would come right back down. Want me to prove it?

Ashley: I'd like to believe you, but I don't trust Cerberus.



Shepard: Knock-knock.

Ashley: Who's there?

Shepard: Orange.

Ashley: Orange who?

Shepard: Orange you glad I didn't say I'm with Cerberus?

Ashley: ...I'd like to believe you, but I don't trust Cerberus.



Definitely the most mind-fawking part of the game. In my opinion. I can't be trusted, though, because I'm with Cerberus.

[Sniper11709]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

anmiro wrote...

How about Kaiden/ Ashley's miraculous escape from being abducted. They are one of the 1st people hit by the seeker swarms but some how eluded capture.

Yeah, and their subsequent doubt in you only makes it more baffling. Kaidan, were you not there for the part when giant bugs came out of nowhere and Collectors were walking around and there was a gigantic spaceship sitting over the colony? You really think Cerberus got a bunch of Collector suits and put on a show?

Horizon in general is really weird, plot-wise. The other colony-nappings had no witnesses, other than a delirious quarian (well, and a whole bunch of security footage, but that's another issue altogether). Horizon, you ended up saving a bunch of humans (Kaidan/Ashley, the mechanic, all the frozen people you pass by) and have evidence so solid it would instantly win you a Phoenix Wright case single-handedly that the Collectors are abducting colonies. What's the Alliance do about this? "Meh."

It's possible that Ashley/Kaidan are in stasis until after the ship leaves so they don't witness anything first hand. It's also possible that the stasis effect also makes it so they lose their  memory of the events just before the attack and the frozen colonists can be explained away as the stasis wearing off (machines self destructing ect) when the collecters leave to make sure there is no evidence of that sort.

Seriously is there a reason why some people call "plot hole" and all other sorts of things if they aren't spoon fed every little bit of information, use your bloody imaginations. To me it's plot hole if there is no reasonable explanation, not that you aren't told every little detail and actully have to help build the world yourself.

But your squadmates comment that the frozen people are aware when you examine them. If there was some memory-blanking effect, I'd think it would be mentioned.

I'm all for winning the no-prize, but I like important plot points to be well-clarified.

I didn't mean to include you in the spoon fed comment even though i did it in the same post so i should have clarafied that, sorry.


My comment was intended for people who think things like why "you didn't destory the Collector ship while it was on Horizon if you have the Thanix Cannon" are a plot hole where the reason is a little obvious if you think about it.

Two reasons immediatly leap out for that one.

A) The Thanix Cannons hit with power of tactical nuclear warheads and the ship is right in the middle of the colony.
There is colonists on board.
Someone mentioned that Shepard says he could use the Normandy guns on Haestrom which reveals reason C
C) Normandys firepower is drasically reduced while firing into the atmosphere otherwise they would never consider using the Normandys gun on Haestrom.

[glacier1701]

Sniper11709 wrote...

Two reasons immediatly leap out for that one.

A) The Thanix Cannons hit with power of tactical nuclear warheads and the ship is right in the middle of the colony.
There is colonists on board.
Someone mentioned that Shepard says he could use the Normandy guns on Haestrom which reveals reason C
C) Normandys firepower is drasically reduced while firing into the atmosphere otherwise they would never consider using the Normandys gun on Haestrom.

B fails because you fire up the GUARDIAN LASERS. As soon as you do that then you sanction the potential loss of any colonists onboard the Collector ship. Of course once you get that far then A and C no longer matter.

A fails if you try to use C as an excuse. After all perhaps the new Cannon (if you have it) is lessened in power by being fired through the atmosphere. And even if you do not have the new cannon the additional firepower anyways can't but help since you are obviously trying to destroy the ship.



However another plot hole altogether:

On Horizon we actually have COLLECTOR bodies (note more than 1). We get some upgrades from them so that means we are analysing them. So how come we do not find out till we actually board the Collector ship and find 1 dead Collector we now suddenly find out from that that the Collectors are Prothean. EDI even says we never had the DNA from a Collector to study yet you had at least 2 WHOLE BODIES on Horizon. Bodies from which you managed to gain insight from on 2 new tech upgrades!!!! 


Another 2 plot holes in one: 

Obviously there is some sort of comm protocol such that colonies are contacted on a regular basis so that when comms go down people elsewhere (The Alliance) can come and find out whats going on. It has to be that way since the whole point of Horizon was to monitor when comms ended so that TIM could get Shepard there quickly and catch the Collectors in the act. Well the plot hole is not that so much but how long does it take the Alliance to react? Numbers of colonists are NEVER mentioned for any of the colonies we hear have gone missing but we do have any idea that at least 100k have been taken. Yet in the examples we do see of how the Collectors gather the colonists they use MANUAL labour to load up the pods. Manual labour to get those pods to their ship and loaded. Seems to be that the whole process is very long yet not one Alliance ship has made it within at least sensor range during all that time? And someone else pointed out that so far as we can tell the Collectors use reaction rockets to take off. So why in heck hasn't anyone spotted those? In the case of Horizon the Collector ship is right on top of the colony - its going to leave indications it was there on the buildings near its exhaust. It should be doing that at EVERY other colony its been too. And if it landed farther away then the time problem is increased!!!

[Sniper11709]

glacier1701 wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...

Two reasons immediatly leap out for that one.

A) The Thanix Cannons hit with power of tactical nuclear warheads and the ship is right in the middle of the colony.
There is colonists on board.
Someone mentioned that Shepard says he could use the Normandy guns on Haestrom which reveals reason C
C) Normandys firepower is drasically reduced while firing into the atmosphere otherwise they would never consider using the Normandys gun on Haestrom.

B fails because you fire up the GUARDIAN LASERS. As soon as you do that then you sanction the potential loss of any colonists onboard the Collector ship. Of course once you get that far then A and C no longer matter.

A fails if you try to use C as an excuse. After all perhaps the new Cannon (if you have it) is lessened in power by being fired through the atmosphere. And even if you do not have the new cannon the additional firepower anyways can't but help since you are obviously trying to destroy the ship.



However another plot hole altogether:

On Horizon we actually have COLLECTOR bodies (note more than 1). We get some upgrades from them so that means we are analysing them. So how come we do not find out till we actually board the Collector ship and find 1 dead Collector we now suddenly find out from that that the Collectors are Prothean. EDI even says we never had the DNA from a Collector to study yet you had at least 2 WHOLE BODIES on Horizon. Bodies from which you managed to gain insight from on 2 new tech upgrades!!!! 


Another 2 plot holes in one: 

Obviously there is some sort of comm protocol such that colonies are contacted on a regular basis so that when comms go down people elsewhere (The Alliance) can come and find out whats going on. It has to be that way since the whole point of Horizon was to monitor when comms ended so that TIM could get Shepard there quickly and catch the Collectors in the act. Well the plot hole is not that so much but how long does it take the Alliance to react? Numbers of colonists are NEVER mentioned for any of the colonies we hear have gone missing but we do have any idea that at least 100k have been taken. Yet in the examples we do see of how the Collectors gather the colonists they use MANUAL labour to load up the pods. Manual labour to get those pods to their ship and loaded. Seems to be that the whole process is very long yet not one Alliance ship has made it within at least sensor range during all that time? And someone else pointed out that so far as we can tell the Collectors use reaction rockets to take off. So why in heck hasn't anyone spotted those? In the case of Horizon the Collector ship is right on top of the colony - its going to leave indications it was there on the buildings near its exhaust. It should be doing that at EVERY other colony its been too. And if it landed farther away then the time problem is increased!!!

B is still perfectly intact when you fire up the GARDIAN lasers because i always got the impression they were trying to disable the ship, not destroy it.

I phrased C) wrong so you got me there.

What i sould have said is that C) was a possible reason and if so then A) and don't matter.

The collector bodies could been retrieved by the Collectors or even self destructed in some manner, they are pretty much entirely cybernetic now so it would make sense for the Reapers to build in a fail safe that can detonated when they want to protect their tech.

I got the impression that the colonies in the terminus systems being targeted are all ones that refuse Alliance and Council control of them so i doubt that the Alliance consider protecting them a priority, the only reason Ash/Kaiden was there was to verify the intel TIM leaked. I also doubt they were being contacted reguarly seeing as they don't like the Alliance so the chance of the Alliance knowing in time is rather slim.

Can't say anything in response to the manual labor thing seeing it is a bit unusual and dosen't make sense when Collectors having advanced tech is emphazied all over the place.

The idea that the Collectors use reaction rockets to get out of the atmosphere is a not very smart at all so i'm going to assume it's another case of Mass Effects problem of cutscences and gameplay not = Plot/Lore. Yes it's a cop out but i honestly can't think of a reason for rockets to be used and this problem has been encountered pretty often in ME.

[FataliTensei]

Here's another Horizon plot hole, why didn't Kaidan use biotics on Horizon against the seeker swarms, if Miranda and Jacob an make a biotic feild, so can Kaidan. It would have protected him and any coloists that got inside the sheild, at least until the collectors started deploying ground troops. But if he had acted quickly, got to a safe zone like that one colonist did, he could have saved quite a few lives. This plot hols is easily explainable though, for multiple reasons.



1. Laziness or time constraints, the developers used the same animation commands for Ash and Kaidan on horizon.

2. Some Ash fans would have called it "unfair" because all Ash could do was fire the assault rifle.

3. I guess that colonist Lilith was destined to die >_>, she must be one of the victims in a final destination movie

[FataliTensei]

That mission was a big one for me too

[FataliTensei]

I was surprised wen no one else talked about me activating Leigion, it's like "oh...there's a geth on the ship...ok"

[Serevir]

FataliTensei wrote...

Here's another Horizon plot hole, why didn't Kaidan use biotics on Horizon against the seeker swarms, if Miranda and Jacob an make a biotic feild, so can Kaidan. It would have protected him and any coloists that got inside the sheild, at least until the collectors started deploying ground troops. But if he had acted quickly, got to a safe zone like that one colonist did, he could have saved quite a few lives. This plot hols is easily explainable though, for multiple reasons.

1. Laziness or time constraints, the developers used the same animation commands for Ash and Kaidan on horizon.
2. Some Ash fans would have called it "unfair" because all Ash could do was fire the assault rifle.
3. I guess that colonist Lilith was destined to die >_>, she must be one of the victims in a final destination movie

Because he didn't know what the collectors were and had little time to consider his options?

[glacier1701]

Sniper11709 wrote...


B is still perfectly intact when you fire up the GARDIAN lasers because i always got the impression they were trying to disable the ship, not destroy it.

I phrased C) wrong so you got me there.

What i sould have said is that C) was a possible reason and if so then A) and don't matter.

I did say POTENTIAL. I agree that the point might be to disable the Collector ship but despite all precautions there is always the chance that you hit something that makes it all go boom. Thus even if the intent is not to destroy the ship you are taking into consideration that its destruction could occur.

Sniper11709 wrote...

The collector bodies could been retrieved by the Collectors or even self destructed in some manner, they are pretty much entirely cybernetic now so it would make sense for the Reapers to build in a fail safe that can detonated when they want to protect their tech.

A possibility but the problem here is what is done on Horizon compared to what is done on the Collector Ship. On Horizon you scan the bodies. As I recall (I could be wrong but I believe they are not just weapon improvements) those scans produce Heavy Bone Weave and Biotic Damage. Now neither of those are obvious things you can see on the outside. You are looking at detailed biological scans at a genetic level. After all that is what you will be modifying on people. On the Collector ship you just look at the body. Now I suppose EDI could be in the database and see the data that the Collectors were trying to collect but she compares it to data she already has. So she should be able to compare the data found on Horizon. So it does not matter if the bodies are toasted the damage has already been done by the time it happens.

Sniper11709 wrote...

I got the impression that the colonies in the terminus systems being targeted are all ones that refuse Alliance and Council control of them so i doubt that the Alliance consider protecting them a priority, the only reason Ash/Kaiden was there was to verify the intel TIM leaked. I also doubt they were being contacted reguarly seeing as they don't like the Alliance so the chance of the Alliance knowing in time is rather slim.

Hmmmm IF that is true then why the continued calls from Anderson for the Council to take action? My impression is that most colonies are still being funded by The Alliance. We do get an advert on The Citadel that promotes going to the colonies though it is a bit ambiguous as to who is funding that. There are also possible indications with the trader volus on Ilium and a news report about colonial development that seem to indicate that what is happening could be attributed to the inability of the Alliance to protect them. If these colonies were outside of Alliance jurisdiction then why blame the Alliance if the colonies got attacked? Oh and how could I forget the Council reaction when you first visit Anderson on The Citadel. The Council basically says its a human problem because "you all knew the risks when you built those colonies near the Terminus Systems". In other words at least some of the colonies are not in the Terminus systems and may still be within Alliance space. Again I will concede that its all a bit vague but still with so much partial evidence it does appear that not every colony can be considered outside of the Alliance in that area.

Horizon could be one of those outside of the Alliance because of the conversations we do get ot hear but if you send your own people there - Ashley/Kaiden - then you do have an interest in whats going on. And if you are willing to send out anti-ship weapons you have more than just a passing interest. It really does sound like the Alliance is doing some monitoring of comms for some of the colonies. The anti-ship weapons had to have been there at least since Freedom's Progress since if you decide to run right to the Citadel when you first are able to you get the Ashley/Kaiden is on a classified mission at that time. Horizon really sounds to me that it is being monitored as were a number of disappeared colonies before that.

[glacier1701]

The Nassana Dantius Plot Hole

This is only apparent if you play/played ME1. If you dont then its not an issue. Anyways when talking to Seryna you state that you killed Nassana's slaver sister for her. Does not sound really earthshattering until you consider that the Nassana quest in ME1 plays out in 4 ways. In 2 of those outcomes the sister is not killed. In a 3rd outcome she dies but only because she attacks you and not at the behest of Nassana. The other outcome is of course being asked to kill Nassana's sister. So the plot hole is if you did not kill Nassana's sister then how come Nassana believes you did? Why do you say you killed her sister to Seryna when you did not? You could say your memory is messed up but that does not affect Nassana's memory. You do not have any option in how this plays out.

[Trenrade]

I'm surprised Shep doesn't hate them for what they did to his squad on Akuze

[TheUnusualSuspect]

addiction21 wrote...
FYI when you break something like your shoulder no matter how buff you are or how much adrenaline is pumping thru your veins your not holding your arm up let alone firing a assualt rifle.
Personally I just ignore it and let joker have his time in the spotlight saving Sheps arse by blasting away.

I reckon that you're somewhat underestimating what the human body can do, even if only for short periods, when broken, when shock and adrenaline are at full steam.  I ride motorbikes, road and racetrack.  Yeah, I've had a few accidents.  Once I broke my wrist, but was still able to pick the 200kg motorbike up, and only half an hour later after the adrenaline started to die down, did I realise it was broken.

Another time, I broke my left leg.  Adrenaline pumping hard, I still managed to stand up, pick the motorbike up off the road, and park it, inspect it, then got on it and started riding home.  After a few minutes the pain REALLY started and I knew something was seriously wrong.  Still rode it home though, which was an hour away.  Man that hurt.

I have a friend, who was riding with his girlfriend on the back.  Bad accident.  He'd actually broken both femur's, and yet still managed to walk/run for 20 steps over to her before he fell over.  You'd normally think that such a thing was impossible, yet he did it.

For whatever reason, in situations desperate enough, the human body really is capable of some very extraordinary feats that almost defy conventional armchair logic.  You do pay for it afterwards though in terms of the added damage you do to yourself from doing those short but amazing things, but for a brief moment there, short of total incapacitation, the body simply does just "go on".

[TheUnusualSuspect]

To me, there was always the huge gaping plot hole in ME1, of how the conduit got onto the Citadel back in the time of the Protheans.  Vigil explained that the scientists developed the Conduit after the Reaper invasion had started, but wait a minute, the conduit is a device sitting on the Presidium.

How did the Protheans ever manage to put the conduit onto the Presidium after the Reapers invaded so they could use the matching relay on Ilos to jump to it?

That was always, to me, the hugest, most glaring plot hole.

[Funkcase]

Liara states Thane arrived on Illium several days ago, but when you recruit him and bring him back to Illium he states he arrived on Illium two years ago.