467 réponses à ce sujet

[fivefingaslap18]

Y'know what would have solved the problem with Ashley or Kaidan. Killing them off by being taken when the Collectors came. That would have made it more emotional and only if you were given a remote chance of saving them.

Then again, that also feels like a science fiction C movie. Come and save your lover from being turned into mushy goo. However, done with Kelly, even though she was a soft romance. More people like Ashley and Kaidan. Implications, unpleasant.

Modifié par fivefingaslap18, 23 février 2010 - 04:33 .

[Big I]

1. It is never explained how the Collector ship knew where to find the original Normandy. You know, the stealth frigate.

2. Population numbers of planets are too big, especially if they're human colonies. Two reasons: 1) humans have only been using the relays for 29 years, and are colonising dozens of systems in several areas. There is no way that Terminus system colonies, ones in the most unsafe area of space in the galaxy like Anhur or Joab, could have hundreds or dozens of MILLIONS of colonists respectively; migration would take longer than that. 2) In Mass Effect, Terra Nova is established as one of the oldest human colonies, colonised in the first wave after discovery of the relays, and the second largest colony in existence - with 4.4 million people. Eden Prime, the one they say is a paradise according to Shepard...has 3.7 million.

3. If we count the vorcha and rachni as races the reapers want to eliminate, and assume that all relay using organic species are also on the hit list, there are 13 sapient species for them to wipe out, 14 if we include the geth. 50,000 years ago, there was one; the Protheans. Only maybe makes sense if the Protheans really did "Enkindle" everyone else

EDIT: According to Cerberus News Network, a new species just joined the galactic community, the raloi. That raises the tally to 14, with potentially more that just haven't been talked about yet.

Modifié par LookingGlass93, 24 février 2010 - 06:27 .

[Sniper11709]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

1. It is never explained how the Collector ship knew where to find the original Normandy. You know, the stealth frigate.

Some sort of tracer beacon planted by Soverign during the fight.
Residual radiation left by Soverigns destruction.
Advanced sensors that pick up Mass Effect emissions from the Tantalus drive core. This is the most likely in my opinion.

LookingGlass93 wrote...
2. Population numbers of planets are too big, especially if they're human colonies. Two reasons: 1) humans have only been using the relays for 29 years, and are colonising dozens of systems in several areas. There is no way that Terminus system colonies, ones in the most unsafe area of space in the galaxy like Anhur or Joab, could have hundreds or dozens of MILLIONS of colonists respectively; migration would take longer than that. 2) In Mass Effect, Terra Nova is established as one of the oldest human colonies, colonised in the first wave after discovery of the relays, and the second largest colony in existence - with 4.4 million people. Eden Prime, the one they say is a paradise according to Shepard...has 3.7 million.

In which systems are these planets? I remember going there but i don't recall them having such large numbers.

LookingGlass93 wrote...
3. If we count the vorcha and rachni as races the reapers want to eliminate, and assume that all relay using organic species are also on the hit list, there are 13 sapient species for them to wipe out, 14 if we include the geth. 50,000 years ago, there was one; the Protheans. Only maybe makes sense if the Protheans really did "Enkindle" everyone else

Maybe 100,000 years ago the Reapers did a more thorough job of cleaning the galaxy then they did 50,000.
Maybe a lot of planets that should have borne life in the Prothean cycle were ruined in a war by the cycle before them.

[Svest]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

1. It is never explained how the Collector ship knew where to find the original Normandy. You know, the stealth frigate.

This is the one that has bugged me.  Sovereign couldn't detect the Normandy on Virmire, yet somehow the collectors could find it no problem?  Wouldn't have taken too much to explain it, I just wish they would have.

[Cody]

Svest wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

1. It is never explained how the Collector ship knew where to find the original Normandy. You know, the stealth frigate.

This is the one that has bugged me.  Sovereign couldn't detect the Normandy on Virmire, yet somehow the collectors could find it no problem?  Wouldn't have taken too much to explain it, I just wish they would have.

The reapers probably have different divisions or something. Sovereign was a vangaurd so it could not detect the normandy. While the collectors have technology that can not only detect human life forms but probably gained some new things from the harbinger after sovereign was destroyed. Harbinger probably gave them more information for their scanners.

[malres]

LookingGlass93 wrote...
1. It is never explained how the Collector ship knew where to find the original Normandy. You know, the stealth frigate.

That one is easy. The Collectors apparently aren't fooled by the Normandy's stealth systems. That's all it takes. Remember, the Normandy was looking for the force behind the disappearance of three (?) ships in that sector. Basically, the Normandy found the Collectors.

kRaYzi3 wrote...
I just find it really silly having a giant HUMAN REAPER travel the stars and exterminate life.

What do you guys think of this?... The Reaper based on a species builds and operates a cuttlefish. So technically, Soverign is a ship with a Reaper inside navigating it.

I'm right there with you. The human-reaper struck me as silly. Not a plot hole, though. Just poor story.

TheUnusualSuspect wrote...
For whatever reason, in situations desperate enough, the human body really is capable of some very extraordinary feats that almost defy conventional armchair logic. You do pay for it afterwards though in terms of the added damage you do to yourself from doing those short but amazing things, but for a brief moment there, short of total incapacitation, the body simply does just "go on".

For partial fractures maybe. No point in getting into an argument that once a load-bearing bone is broken into pieces, it will simply not support any weight any longer and no amount of self-command or adrenaline will change that. It's completely besides the point anyway. Joker allegedly has brittle bone syndrome. He hobbles along the Normandy in a gait that makes the Hunchback of Notre Dame look like a gazelle. But he survives the acceleration and later on fires a machine gun from his hips, making Rambo look like a harmless toddler. But despite these heroics, he's never in the infirmary. Maybe he's lucky, but it can definitely not be explained by adrenaline.

To me, there was always the huge gaping plot hole in ME1, of how the conduit got onto the Citadel back in the time of the Protheans. Vigil explained that the scientists developed the Conduit after the Reaper invasion had started, but wait a minute, the conduit is a device sitting on the Presidium.

How did the Protheans ever manage to put the conduit onto the Presidium after the Reapers invaded so they could use the matching relay on Ilos to jump to it?

That was always, to me, the hugest, most glaring plot hole.

I don't remember it being said that the conduit is brought there after the invasion. Afaik, it could have been there the whole time. The keepers apparently don't mind its presence, and the Reapers never actually walk through the Citadel I presume.

Modifié par malres, 23 février 2010 - 06:33 .

[Creston918]

Scientists in the galaxy all agreeing that weapons should work on a heat-dissipation base, rather than an ammunition base, and every single weapon in the galaxy adhering to that concept 100%.

Then scientists apparently deciding that that's a bad idea because it makes snipers overpowered, so reintroducing ammunition. However, rather than reintroduce guns which simply use bullets, they come up with some hideously convoluted way to make ammunition clips of heat-sinks, so they can still have guns that work on a heat-dissipation base, just not as well as before anymore. (to put it in an analogy. We had guns that did A. We didn't like that, so we invented guns that did B. We didn't like that either, so instead of going back to A, we decided to make gun C which is sort of B, by emulating A. Brilliant! In Mass Effect 3 we'll go back to an infinite ammo system, by carrying around a little generator which creates infinite heatsink clips.)

Then those same scientists making it so that in the space of two years, every single gun in existence immediately switches over to this new system, and all guns that use the old system are destroyed. Don't mess with the gun lobby.


Actual storyline based plotholes :

- The Normandy jumping to lightspeed while they're in the core of the galaxy, after much fuss was made over the fact that there'd be just a tiny little bubble to fly around in.

- The crew of the Normandy being exposed to a naked singularity when they disembark from the Normandy to enter the Collector base. (since they're outside on the hull.)

- Debris that "looks ancient" still floating around near that singularity, rather than being sucked in.

- I don't care that the Council publicly denies the existence of Reapers, but to do so in secret as well is just plain retarded, especially after they pretty much all admit that you were right at the end of ME1.

[TyDurden13]

Creston918 wrote...

- The Normandy jumping to lightspeed while they're in the core of the galaxy, after much fuss was made over the fact that there'd be just a tiny little bubble to fly around in.

- The crew of the Normandy being exposed to a naked singularity when they disembark from the Normandy to enter the Collector base. (since they're outside on the hull.)

- Debris that "looks ancient" still floating around near that singularity, rather than being sucked in.

As you alluude to in the first point here, the Collctor base and the surrounding sapce (it is never specified how big) is surrounded by a mass effect field that negates the properties of the singularity.

[Svest]

CodyMelch wrote...

The reapers probably have different divisions or something. Sovereign was a vangaurd so it could not detect the normandy. While the collectors have technology that can not only detect human life forms but probably gained some new things from the harbinger after sovereign was destroyed. Harbinger probably gave them more information for their scanners.

There are a million things that could, theoretically explain what happened.  I'm sure we could sit here all day coming up with them.  I just wish the writers would have picked one and dropped it in.

Creston918 wrote...

Actual storyline based plotholes :

-
The Normandy jumping to lightspeed while they're in the core of the
galaxy, after much fuss was made over the fact that there'd be just a
tiny little bubble to fly around in.

- The crew of the Normandy
being exposed to a naked singularity when they disembark from the
Normandy to enter the Collector base. (since they're outside on the
hull.)

- Debris that "looks ancient" still floating around near that singularity, rather than being sucked in.

-
I don't care that the Council publicly denies the existence of Reapers,
but to do so in secret as well is just plain retarded, especially after
they pretty much all admit that you were right at the end of ME1.

Your second and third point here were already answered by part of your first point.  The reason the debris didn't fall into the singularity was it was inside the mass effect field (bubble) generated by the station and therefore protected from and uneffected by the singularity.  Which is also why the crew was not really exposed to a naked singularity.  They would have been exposed to the vacuum of space though, which considering what some of them were wearing is just as bad.

[Creston918]

Ranbir wrote...

The advert kiosks on the Citadel scream your name and your history rather loudly. Yet no-one in the vicinity bats an eye lid.

C-Sec security. You have Cerberus on your uniform, right? So much for staying below the radar. "Is it true, you're working for Cerberus?" How do all these npcs I talk to just so happen to be aware of this?

Further more, the email on my ship. How quickly did these rumours of my being alive go? How do they know to send their e-mails to the new top secret Normandy? What is my e-mail address and how do so many people know it? That doesn't seem very secure! Surely better for cerberus and everyone if we don't behave and walk around as if we're the second alliance navy core.

Remember that ship that was falling into a colony and you had to repower the ship's engines? Well I scanned the planet and the info panel made no mention that this planet had been colonised. There was no colony, it just popped up for the sake of this set pieced mission and then it vanished again.

Also for the IFF cutscene thing. Where was the whole team going in the shuttle? What mission? I looked at my questbook, I had no outstanding missions. I had no reason to leave Joker in charge while I...what? Park my shuttle in deep space for 5 minutes?

Late reply, but eh.

1) The Illusive Man leaked the news of your resurrection to the Alliance. He admits as much after the Horizon mission. 

2) That ship falling into the colony mission had me baffled at first too, especially since the planet in question is a gas giant. However, the colony could have been on one of its moons. The entry for the planet mentions moons that could sustain life.

[Creston918]

Wiggletphyre wrote...

malres wrote...

Maybe I found a real plot hole after all (sorry if somebody mentioned it already and I missed it):

I think it's being said that the Collectors are a known myth since before the events of ME1, and it can be assumed they've been controlled by Harbinger/the Reapers the whole time. If that is correct, then Sovereign should have had access to them for some time. So why are Sovereign and Saren not using Collectors to find the Mu Relay and use the beacons?

Or do I miss something?

Because you never want to put all your cards on the table. And you always have to have a backup plan.

Even more, it seems highly unlikely that the Reapers are these jolly fellows that all get along splendidly. There's undoubtedly some form of pecking order within the Reaper population, and Sovereign and Harbinger might have been trying to outdo each other so as to benefit from it.

Sovereign had his plan, Harbinger had his own as well. Whoever succeeded got to be the Man for a day.

[Canez fan 1988]

Creston918 wrote...

Wiggletphyre wrote...

malres wrote...

Maybe I found a real plot hole after all (sorry if somebody mentioned it already and I missed it):

I think it's being said that the Collectors are a known myth since before the events of ME1, and it can be assumed they've been controlled by Harbinger/the Reapers the whole time. If that is correct, then Sovereign should have had access to them for some time. So why are Sovereign and Saren not using Collectors to find the Mu Relay and use the beacons?

Or do I miss something?

Because you never want to put all your cards on the table. And you always have to have a backup plan.

Even more, it seems highly unlikely that the Reapers are these jolly fellows that all get along splendidly. There's undoubtedly some form of pecking order within the Reaper population, and Sovereign and Harbinger might have been trying to outdo each other so as to benefit from it.

Sovereign had his plan, Harbinger had his own as well. Whoever succeeded got to be the Man for a day.

That's an interesting theory.


ME2 only has a few REAL plotholes IMO.

1. How did Mordin get ahold of that seeker? Also, I have heard that the seekers are actually tiny robots. Can anyone confirm this? If so, maybe he built one.

2. Why didn't the Collectors try to stop the escape pods at the beginning of the game? Their goal was to harvest human life, and I would think they would try to capitalize on every opportunity they had, unless they were only really concerned with destroying the Normandy and killing Shepard.

Other than those two, I think everything else was pretty straight forward.

Modifié par Canez fan 1988, 23 février 2010 - 07:39 .

[Adynata]

Did I miss the explanation of why Kaidan wasn't kidnapped on Horizon? He appeared to be paralyzed, so why didn't they take him?

[Forsakerr]

Adynata wrote...

Did I miss the explanation of why Kaidan wasn't kidnapped on Horizon? He appeared to be paralyzed, so why didn't they take him?

i think you killed the collectors who were where Kaidan/Ashley so they could nt abduct him/her , it s my best guess

but it s kind of stupid you could nt save anyone else ... oh i just remember Shepard said you saved half the colony we did nt see them though

Modifié par Forsakerr, 23 février 2010 - 07:54 .

[Creston918]

TyDurden13 wrote...

Creston918 wrote...

- The Normandy jumping to lightspeed while they're in the core of the galaxy, after much fuss was made over the fact that there'd be just a tiny little bubble to fly around in.

- The crew of the Normandy being exposed to a naked singularity when they disembark from the Normandy to enter the Collector base. (since they're outside on the hull.)

- Debris that "looks ancient" still floating around near that singularity, rather than being sucked in.

As you alluude to in the first point here, the Collctor base and the surrounding sapce (it is never specified how big) is surrounded by a mass effect field that negates the properties of the singularity.

I actually thought about that after I had posted it. Still, that is one SERIOUSLY large mass effect field... I more figured that the Relay was at a Lagrange point, and the mass effect field simply shielded the base (like it did the abandoned Reaper near Mnemosyne.) a few hundred meters outwards. That would still shield the crew though.

As for the crew walking around in cold vacuum without a space suit, that's because it was deemed to be more efficient to not have an inventory anymore. We need to be careful what we complain about in ME2, because BW has already shown that anything that gets complained about it simply gets removed...

Few other issues some people raised :

- Cerberus logos on everything: I assume that very, very few people even know what Cerberus is, and that that logo is likely just a cover front. For all we know it's just the symbol of the Lazarus cell.

- Ashley/Kaidan walking around on Horizon: It doesn't seem too unbelievable that the Seeker Swarm paralyzing effect only lasts a short time. Once the Collectors are bugging out, the swarms are either taken along, or they simply die off / self destruct, at which point the people who are left behind will "wake up".
It's still a bit of a quick recovery for Ash/Kaidan, but it seems plausible.

- The shuttle thing at the end: That's just one of those things that get done for the sake of a game, even when they sometimes don't make any sense. If you still have a mission left to do, it makes sense. It's only when you've already done ALL missions that the group going onto the shuttle becomes weird. Bio should have put a check in that wouldn't initiate the Collectors showing up to gank the Normandy until after you actually GO somewhere. (ie, just land on a planet or something.)


Two more things that I thought of, which aren't really plotholes as much as just silly missions that make no sense.

1) Batarian terrorists shooting missiles at a colony on a planet somewhere. Yet Shepard still has time to go through four mass relay jumps, go to the planet, get into the shuttle, land the shuttle and get into the base, to stop them.

2) Similarly, the "ship crashing onto the colony." The first time I saw that mission, I had just come out of the Citadel, which is literally on the other side of the galaxy. Hehe.
I guess it's a slow-crashing ship.

[Forsakerr]

Creston918 wrote...


- Cerberus logos on everything: I assume that very, very few people even know what Cerberus is, and that that logo is likely just a cover front. For all we know it's just the symbol of the Lazarus cell.

well when Jack sees the logo she says: Cerberus and goes into nerd rage so i guess the lazarus project logo idea is nt right ,only my two creds

[didymos1120]

ExtremeOne wrote...

The only 2 plot holes are the one on Horizon where either ashley or kaiden are frozed then at the end they appear. and the whole Collectors invading the Normandy

and:

frankssama wrote...

The fact that Ashley/Kaidan got bitten
in the neck by a seeker swarm and still managed to escape at the end.
Either a plothole or he/she was lucky.

The Horizon thing ain't a plothole:  look around.  Notice there's still people waiting to get crated?  Notice there're closed pods that still haven't been loaded?  Remember how you "didn't save everyone"?  Ash/Kaidan lucked out.  Simple as that.  As to the seekers, the ealier post was right:  they work together to generate stasis fields. That's what that shimmering haze around them is.  Watch the attack again, and observe the frozen folk once you arrive: they're not paralyzed by some sort of venom delivered by biting. There's only one brief little moment with a single seeker that could be interpreted as a bite. All the others just land on people and skitter around a bit.  And, to add to that, Mordin's countermeasure isn't an anti-venin either.  The problem he solved was to stop them recognizing any of you as human, as was discussed earlier in the game.  That's why the bugs don't even seem to react to Shep or your human squadmates' presence at all.  As far as they're concerned, you may as well not exist.

[Sniper11709]

didymos1120 wrote...


The Horizon thing ain't a plothole:  look around.  Notice there's still people waiting to get crated?  Notice there're closed pods that still haven't been loaded?  Remember how you "didn't save everyone"?  Ash/Kaidan lucked out.  Simple as that.  As to the seekers, the ealier post was right:  they work together to generate stasis fields. That's what that shimmering haze around them is.  Watch the attack again, and observe the frozen folk once you arrive: they're not paralyzed by some sort of venom delivered by biting. There's only one brief little moment with a single seeker that could be interpreted as a bite. All the others just land on people and skitter around a bit.  And, to add to that, Mordin's countermeasure isn't an anti-venin either.  The problem he solved was to stop them recognizing any of you as human, as was discussed earlier in the game.  That's why the bugs don't even seem to react to Shep or your human squadmates' presence at all.  As far as they're concerned, you may as well not exist.

Actully i have to admit that the Ashley/Kaiden not being picked up thing is very much one of the few things that is a real plothole.

The Collecters somehow fail to nab the person they actully targeted Horizion for,even when they were one of the first to be disabled as well as being right next to the ship, yeah that dosen't make much sense at all.

[slicer477]

dragon age armor is a plot hole.

[didymos1120]

Sniper11709 wrote...

The Collecters somehow fail to nab the person they actully targeted Horizion for,even when they were one of the first to be disabled as well as being right next to the ship, yeah that dosen't make much sense at all.

Hmm.   Yeah, I got nothin'.  Damn it.

ETA: OK, best I can do: they didn't actually give a sh!t about Ash/Kaidan, except as a lure for you.  Sure, they'd take 'em, just like everyone else there, but really they just hoped you'd show up under the assumption you'd be easy game on the ground.

Modifié par didymos1120, 24 février 2010 - 12:06 .

[didymos1120]

slicer477 wrote...

dragon age armor is a plot hole.

Er, no.  Read your email.  The thing actually has a backstory:

Originally created for Earth's Urban Combat Championship, this set of armor has undergone as much or more field testing than those of modern militaries. It uses a propriety power cell that costs as much as a EUCC rookie's contract. The armor's microframe computer adapts to any top-tier omni-tool, kinetic barrier, or biotic amp, giving seamless and error-free performance. The chest and shoulder piece bears the logo of the Edmonton Blood Dragons, and the inside of the armor bears the signatures of the entire team. When and how the Illusive Man got his hands on this armor is unknown, but several of the signatures bear messages such as "[expletive] the geth!" and "Shepard, get well soon!!!"

TIM just thought you might like a set.

Modifié par didymos1120, 24 février 2010 - 12:09 .

[Sniper11709]

didymos1120 wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...

The Collecters somehow fail to nab the person they actully targeted Horizion for,even when they were one of the first to be disabled as well as being right next to the ship, yeah that dosen't make much sense at all.

Hmm.   Yeah, I got nothin'.  Damn it.

ETA: OK, best I can do: they didn't actually give a sh!t about Ash/Kaidan, except as a lure for you.  Sure, they'd take 'em, just like everyone else there, but really they just hoped you'd show up under the assumption you'd be easy game on the ground.

Well that does make some sense seeing as they lure him into trap not that long after, however i was under the assumption they didn't know about you at the time, they still thought you were dead after all.

edit: it's funny i try to find all sorts of explanations for other plot holes but this one i'm trying to squirm my way out of one:blink:

Modifié par Sniper11709, 24 février 2010 - 01:55 .

[Malysoun]

Canez fan 1988 wrote...

Creston918 wrote...

Wiggletphyre wrote...

malres wrote...

Maybe I found a real plot hole after all (sorry if somebody mentioned it already and I missed it):

I think it's being said that the Collectors are a known myth since before the events of ME1, and it can be assumed they've been controlled by Harbinger/the Reapers the whole time. If that is correct, then Sovereign should have had access to them for some time. So why are Sovereign and Saren not using Collectors to find the Mu Relay and use the beacons?

Or do I miss something?

Because you never want to put all your cards on the table. And you always have to have a backup plan.

Even more, it seems highly unlikely that the Reapers are these jolly fellows that all get along splendidly. There's undoubtedly some form of pecking order within the Reaper population, and Sovereign and Harbinger might have been trying to outdo each other so as to benefit from it.

Sovereign had his plan, Harbinger had his own as well. Whoever succeeded got to be the Man for a day.

That's an interesting theory.


ME2 only has a few REAL plotholes IMO.

1. How did Mordin get ahold of that seeker? Also, I have heard that the seekers are actually tiny robots. Can anyone confirm this? If so, maybe he built one.

2. Why didn't the Collectors try to stop the escape pods at the beginning of the game? Their goal was to harvest human life, and I would think they would try to capitalize on every opportunity they had, unless they were only really concerned with destroying the Normandy and killing Shepard.

Other than those two, I think everything else was pretty straight forward.

Veetor called the seeker swarms 'little machines like tiny insects' I think, and Miranda pipes in about miniture probes. Veetor also took a lot of omni-tool readings of everything, Mordin probably did build one.

I got the impression that the collector abductions were fairly recent. Not sure about the escape pods though. At the time they might not have been interested in humans besides killing Shep.

[daytona123]

Idk if this is really a plot hole but, when you return to the Citadel and talk to the old Council (if you saved them) they say something along the lines that the geth created sovereign but also somehow Saren tricked the Geth into believing sovereign was a reaper?



So either the Council is completely retarded and you should be able to interrupt them and explain the flaws in their logic or they are scared ****less and figured we are pretty much doomed anyways so don't say anything to incite panic and hope to hell Shepard can do something solo.

[SimonTheFrog]

daytona123 wrote...

Idk if this is really a plot hole but, when you return to the Citadel and talk to the old Council (if you saved them) they say something along the lines that the geth created sovereign but also somehow Saren tricked the Geth into believing sovereign was a reaper?

So either the Council is completely retarded and you should be able to interrupt them and explain the flaws in their logic or they are scared ****less and figured we are pretty much doomed anyways so don't say anything to incite panic and hope to hell Shepard can do something solo.

Yup, the whole mess with the Council and the Reapers just makes da brain hurt. I really hope BW comes up with a very fine explanation... but i fear not