467 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaenier]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The only thing that's apparently geth about Legion is the shell. Which is hardly impossible (or unlikely) to be copied by other attention-seekers.

Geth can look like anything, in any form. The frame doesn't much matter one way or another.

Exactly. you could put a geth into any basic robot body like all those robots that magically appeared in ME2 and travelled back in time for jacobs loyalty mission. Nobody would expect a thing, they would just act like dumb robots till its time to spring into action and instant win the citadel.

[Dean_the_Young]

One reason I never do that 'geth infiltrator' sidequest on the Citadel. Those Asari might be compromised, even if they don't know it and aren't lying. (Though I really should look to find out if I can turn over the ID to C-SEC or something...)

[Vaenier]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

One reason I never do that 'geth infiltrator' sidequest on the Citadel. Those Asari might be compromised, even if they don't know it and aren't lying. (Though I really should look to find out if I can turn over the ID to C-SEC or something...)

I would not put it past Bioware to rip off Battlestar Galactica even more. They already stole the fleet and the cyolns, might as well steal the skin jobs and a cylon god while they are at it, make the rip off complete and painful to watch.

[Dean_the_Young]

Battlestar Galactica was hardly the first to come with the 'let's hide ourselves in the skins of others.



Wolf in sheep's skin is pretty old, as far as these sayings go.

[Vaenier]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Battlestar Galactica was hardly the first to come with the 'let's hide ourselves in the skins of others.

Wolf in sheep's skin is pretty old, as far as these sayings go.

Yes, but having the robots who rebelled and drove a species to living on ships for 300 years suddenly also make skinjobs... Do I really have to spell this out for you.

[The7Sins]

An even bigger annoyance for me is due to getting Legion extremely early in my main playthrough the everyone going into the shuttle to nowhere scene triggered when I tried to land on The Citadel.



Now I'm no expert on C-Sec or Council law but wouldn't the ships guarding The Citadel help attack the Collector ship when it is attacking the Normandy?

It just feels wrong on so many levels having my ship attacked and crew abducted within view of The Citadel with no one coming to help.

[didymos1120]

The7Sins wrote...

An even bigger annoyance for me is due to getting Legion extremely early in my main playthrough the everyone going into the shuttle to nowhere scene triggered when I tried to land on The Citadel.

Now I'm no expert on C-Sec or Council law but wouldn't the ships guarding The Citadel help attack the Collector ship when it is attacking the Normandy?
It just feels wrong on so many levels having my ship attacked and crew abducted within view of The Citadel with no one coming to help.

Oh, come on.  You really expect them to add in scenes that take into account where the Normandy is when that event is triggered?

[JoeLaTurkey]

Did I spot a rachni in the Citadel Tower during ME's final battle?
When Saren enters the council chamber he shoots something with a pulse rifle and I swear it was a rachni.

Also, did sole survivor Shepard forget about Akuze?

Modifié par JoeLaTurkey, 16 janvier 2011 - 11:36 .

[didymos1120]

JoeLaTurkey wrote...

Did I spot a rachni in the Citadel Tower during ME's final battle?
When Saren enters the council chamber he shoots something with a pulse rifle and I swear it was a rachni.
 

That was a keeper.

[JoeLaTurkey]

didymos1120 wrote...

JoeLaTurkey wrote...

Did I spot a rachni in the Citadel Tower during ME's final battle?
When Saren enters the council chamber he shoots something with a pulse rifle and I swear it was a rachni.
 

That was a keeper.

It makes the same noise. Maybe they're related.
Wonder why he bothered killing it. The keepers are needed to maintain the station and open the relay.

[didymos1120]

JoeLaTurkey wrote...
It makes the same noise. Maybe they're related.
Wonder why he bothered killing it. The keepers are needed to maintain the station and open the relay.

Actually, the keepers had been altered so they wouldn't open the relay when signaled to.  That was the entire reason Saren was there: to give Sovereign control so it could do it "manually".  And it's actually a clever little moment: Saren is only  slightly in control of himself at that point.  I.e., it's Sovereign's annoyance at the keepers not doing what they should that is behind that display.  It's like someone getting mad at their computer or remote control for glitching out. 

It's similar to Saren nearly attacking Benezia after learning Shep had accessed the beacon: notice the red light flashing during that scene?  Again, Sovereign was behind that behavior.  It did not want attention on Saren.

As far as maintaining it goes, the implication was that the Reapers were going to replace the keepers with something more reliable anyway.  And besides, the keepers can replace themselves.  One or even a few dozen wouldn't have made a difference.

Modifié par didymos1120, 16 janvier 2011 - 12:06 .

[Moiaussi]

Sandbox47 wrote...

There's a shield that covers the cockpit.

Also, I really enjoyed reading your "plot holes" because they show exactly how little mistakes Bioware has done! It's mainly just issues with the way the game looks and not actual holes in the plot.

The FTL out of the centre of the galaxy but th need for a Relay to get there is easy to explain.
You don't know where exactly in the centre you have to go and the Relay - "relays" you there. But returning out of that place is simply because you know of several good places to go to without the need for a Relay, like the outside of the galactic core.

So I think that BioWare deserves some credit for their well written game

Ok, how about 'why does Shepard slow down inexplicably when crossing the section of the normandy otherwise exposed to space?' And 'how are they able to maintain any sort of atmospheric bubble such as you describe when the ship's shields are down?'

And how is Shepard able to stand in that part of the ship as long as he or she wishes? It is quite amusing if you do so... the debris floats off into space getting more and more distant. Theoretically Shepard could have saved the Normandy just by sitting down for tea in that exposed section until help arrived

The standing there forever is a bit nit picky ... but it does bother me that Shepard suddenly slows down radically.

[didymos1120]

Moiaussi wrote...
Ok, how about 'why does Shepard slow down inexplicably when crossing the section of the normandy otherwise exposed to space?'

It's purely for effect: it forces you to take in the damage to the Normandy by disabling your ability to dash through.

And 'how are they able to maintain any sort of atmospheric bubble such as you describe when the ship's shields are down?'

Same way the Citadel has an atmosphere: mass effect fields.  No seriously: it's in the Codex.  Also, they show you it's an ME field.  Besides, why would the shields being down matter?  They're their own system.

The standing there forever is a bit nit picky

It's silly.  You can do that in a million games in a million other situations.  As well ask "How come Shepard can access the menu at any time and stay in that forever?"  Games will always have to play with time like that to one degree or another.  You're supposed to realize that's not "really" happening.

Modifié par didymos1120, 16 janvier 2011 - 12:54 .

[brgillespie]

In case we're still unclear about Wilson, he was working for the Shadow Broker. He likely turned on Cerberus due to emo-rage about his talents not being appreciated.

[Dean_the_Young]

Vaenier wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Battlestar Galactica was hardly the first to come with the 'let's hide ourselves in the skins of others.

Wolf in sheep's skin is pretty old, as far as these sayings go.

Yes, but having the robots who rebelled and drove a species to living on ships for 300 years suddenly also make skinjobs... Do I really have to spell this out for you.

About how all the ideas from Battlestar Galactica were new and innovative when they did it?

[Carrington666]

Does it count as plot hole if the Lead Writer of ME2 ans the LW of ME1 directly contradict each other? Besides the point that Humans have to wear a complete Envirosuit when entering a ship of the Flottila, which can be atributed to the game mechanics, ME2 says that Zaeed has co-founded the Blue Suns. Revelations reads: "He wasn't about to trust (...)someone else simply because the Suns had recently started taking on humans." (Mass Effect: Revelations p.75)



Of course I'm nit picking, but things like that actually iritate me more then changes in the game play mechanics that have to be handwaved in, ie thermal clips.

[Dean_the_Young]

Zaeed's addition is more of a retcon than a plot hole.

[madman0311]

-The whole lazarus project

-Holy s**t Joker can walk? How?

-Get facial regenerating med bay. Don't tell Garrus.

-Why Wilson betrays cerberus

-Why the illusive man would even bother necroing shep

-Kinetic barriers do not exist in cutscenes (see thane's loyalty and the Krogan bodyguards being shot)

-Thermal clips

-Drinking through helmets fully enclosing the face

-Antagonist with unclear motives (yes, giant terminator. I know. But why?)

-Collectors come to horizon looking for Shepard or people connected to him. But hey, don't take Kaidan/Ashley

-Wait, wasn't she frozen in the first place? What is she doing walking around?

-The illusive man suddenly calls in all "oh hey dude, found dead reaper. Check it out", don't show to council, the alliance, just leave it around. Also, it wasn't found for 37 million years and the reapers never though of removing it since, well... they usually cover up all evidence that they exist and... yeah.

-Why does joker need to go to engineering if EDi already has full controll during th takeover of the Normandy?

-Why no seeker swarms on the Normandy?

-Spaceship stunts (that s**t is just brain melting stupid. Seriously)

-Have to use a squad member to protect from seeker swarms in suicide mission rather than just use the protection Mordin made.

-Apparently, Geth have same biology as humans and other aliens as evident from BioWare being lazy with creating a unique death scene for Legion.

-Melting creatures into goo creates reapers.

-Vacuum only affects breathing. It's totally fine to be in outer space with a spandex and a moutpiece.

Plenty more. Just can't be bothered. At all.

Modifié par madman0311, 16 janvier 2011 - 04:26 .

[Vaenier]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Battlestar Galactica was hardly the first to come with the 'let's hide ourselves in the skins of others.

Wolf in sheep's skin is pretty old, as far as these sayings go.

Yes, but having the robots who rebelled and drove a species to living on ships for 300 years suddenly also make skinjobs... Do I really have to spell this out for you.

About how all the ideas from Battlestar Galactica were new and innovative when they did it?

And you miss the point completely, again.

Its not about Battlestar being original, its about how you would be copying it exactly point for point by doing this. Using a generic idea from it is nothing, using every single idea from it is a ripoff.

[88mphSlayer]

brgillespie wrote...

In case we're still unclear about Wilson, he was working for the Shadow Broker. He likely turned on Cerberus due to emo-rage about his talents not being appreciated.

or the Shadow Broker still wanted Sheperd

i doubt Wilson would kill his most amazing work ever out of emo-rage, and his talents weren't appreciated long before Sheperd was ever done being resurrected so the attack waiting until the moment the project closed would signal it's everything to do with capturing Sheperd, but Miranda waking up Sheperd automatically sabotaged that effort... (not a very well thought out plan no doubt)

[Dean_the_Young]

Vaenier wrote...

Its not about Battlestar being original, its about how you would be copying it exactly point for point by doing this. Using a generic idea from it is nothing, using every single idea from it is a ripoff.

Using every single idea of it in your own context as a part, and not the whole, of a product, is an allusion. Which, in the context of a minor side mission, is perfectly normal and accepted. Bioware is in love with it's nods to other sci-fi works.

But the Asari infiltrator side quest gives no sign that that's even the case. The entire side mission provides no evidence or support that these Asari are actually geth infiltrators, or even being used by the geth, and the entire situation also calls to mind the current socio-political 'No Fly' lists of American aviation, in which even six-month babies have been denied flight opportunities on account of being dangerous terrorist suspects. Rather than a skin-job reference, it can be an entirely unrelated allusion to air travel security absurdities, which anyone with a passing familiarization to airline horror storries can be aware of would be familiar with how it'd be just funny if it weren't so true.

And if that sidequest was primarily motivated by real-life happenings, then the similarity is coincidential, if not entirely imagined on your part, and you're simply obsessing over something that isn't even what you think it is.


Mass Effect would be a rip off if it took a story, and then copied that story, and then said that entire story was it's own and that's all there was too the story. But, thankfully, that hasn't happened here: Mass Effect is not Battle Star Galactica, or Star Wars, or Lovecraftian horror, and while it freely borrows ideas from them, it also brings in ideas from others and makes them all into it's own blend.

[Il Divo]

[quote]madman0311 wrote...

-The whole lazarus project [/quote]

Specifics are nice.

[quote]
-Why Wilson betrays cerberus [/quote]

Lotsb tells us that he had some involvement with the Shadowbroker.

[quote]
-Why the illusive man would even bother necroing shep
 [/quote]

'Killed a Reaper', saved the Citadel, brought down a top Spectre, portrayed as the human ideal by the press, shown to be a capable leader, first human Spectre. Take your pick. Mass Effect 1 pretty much serves as his resume` for his usage in Mass Effect 2.

[quote]
-Kinetic barriers do not exist in cutscenes (see thane's loyalty and the Krogan bodyguards being shot)
[/quote]

Why not exactly?

[quote]
-Thermal clips [/quote]

A gameplay mechanic, to be treated as such. They didn't have to provide any explanation for why they did it, no more than they need to explain how charge works. 

[quote]
-Drinking through helmets fully enclosing the face [/quote]

Plot hole? More like animation trouble.
 
[quote]
-Antagonist with unclear motives (yes, giant terminator. I know. But why?)
[/quote]

...Explain the Reaper motivation in Mass Effect. Not to mention, the purpose of reproduction is self-fulfilling. It's how they create more Reapers.

[quote]
-Collectors come to horizon looking for Shepard or people connected to him. But hey, don't take Kaidan/Ashley [/quote]

Shepard arrives. Starts shooting people. Interrupts things.

[quote]
-The illusive man suddenly calls in all "oh hey dude, found dead reaper. Check it out", don't show to council, the alliance, just leave it around. Also, it wasn't found for 37 million years and the reapers never though of removing it since, well... they usually cover up all evidence that they exist and... yeah. [/quote]

If the Reapers were as efficient as they claimed, there would have been no traces of the past civilizations either. Space is big. Things escape notice. The point of Klendagon is that we don't know what happened there right now.

[quote]
-Why does joker need to go to engineering if EDi already has full controll during th takeover of the Normandy?
[/quote]

Because EDI cannot activate the core herself.

[quote]
-Why no seeker swarms on the Normandy?
[/quote]

Seekers cannot penetrate walls to our knowledge. Using them in confined spaces is incredibly tedious. They are intended for actual colonies so the Collectors can go about largely unopposed.

[quote]
-Spaceship stunts (that s**t is just brain melting stupid. Seriously)
[/quote]

Such as?

[quote]
-Have to use a squad member to protect from seeker swarms in suicide mission rather than just use the protection Mordin made. [/quote]

Explained. Mordin tells us that there are far too many seeker swarms on the Collector Base for his counter measure to work effectively.

[quote]
-Apparently, Geth have same biology as humans and other aliens as evident from BioWare being lazy with creating a unique death scene for Legion. [/quote]

Legion needs a unique animation to be carried off by seeker swarms or take a rocket to the face?

[quote]
-Melting creatures into goo creates reapers.
[/quote]

Not a plot hole. It's Reaper technology which is not necessary for us to understand. Go read up on Clarke's third law.

[quote]
Plenty more. Just can't be bothered. At all.

[/quote]

Apparently you couldn't be bothered to pay attention to diaologue either.

[Moiaussi]

didymos1120 wrote...

It's purely for effect: it forces you to take in the damage to the Normandy by disabling your ability to dash through.

The Normandy blows up very shortly thereafter anyway, and the cut scenes are pretty clear the damage done to the ship. To me suddenly slowing down was immersion breaking.

Same way the Citadel has an atmosphere: mass effect fields.  No seriously: it's in the Codex.  Also, they show you it's an ME field.  Besides, why would the shields being down matter?  They're their own system.

The ship's main shields are also mass effect shields though. Mass effect isn't alone in this though. Star Trek has the same problem with its navigational deflectors, which supposedly explain why the ships travelling at FTL speeds aren't ripped apart by stray space dust or even free hydrogen. Any hit strong enough to knock out the much more powerful main shield generators is presumably also powerful enough to wipe out any life support or navigational sheilding. While down, the ships would presumably be abraded by said dust, especially in system or in a nebula such as around the citadel.

The citadel's main sheilds have not been penetrated so far in ME, yet there were areas of the citadel open to vacuum in ME.

It's silly.  You can do that in a million games in a million other situations.  As well ask "How come Shepard can access the menu at any time and stay in that forever?"  Games will always have to play with time like that to one degree or another.  You're supposed to realize that's not "really" happening.

Hence my calling it nit picky. However, there is a difference between having a game menu up and simply standing there. Besides, they aren't afraid to use timers on other missions or on interrupts. If they really wanted to start the game off with a dramatic momment it would have been a much more effective way than shepard slowing down to notice the pretty planet in the Normandy's new picture window.

[Moiaussi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Zaeed's addition is more of a retcon than a plot hole.

Aren't all retcons de facto plot holes though? They are plot holes the writers are fessing up to and asking us to ignore.

[madman0311]

[quote]Il Divo wrote...

Specifics are nice.

[/quote]

The whole being out in vacuum for so long, burning up in the atmosphere, crashing to the surface at thousands of km/h...

and then you have shepard completely unchanged from how he was apart from those scars that appear when you are mean to people.

[quote]

Lotsb tells us that he had some involvement with the Shadowbroker.

[/quote]

So they just thought "oh s**t, we really messed up with the whole Wilson thing. Just slap on some stuff in that new DLC before anyone notices."

Same as they did with the whole universal translators with Bring Down the Sky.

Also, due to the fact Micro$oft find the payment options of some countries not good enough, a lot of people do not have access to DLC.

 [quote]

'Killed a Reaper', saved the Citadel, brought down a top Spectre,
[/quote]

All can be done without spending as much time, money and effort they did necromancing Shep. He could just build a goddamn army. See: Zaeed, thousands upon thousands of other mercs, assassins, etc.

[quote]
portrayed as the human ideal by the press, shown to be a capable leader,
first human Spectre.
[/quote]

So it was all to bring back a human cheerleader. One that also screwed up Cerberus' s**t at every turn in Mass Effect. Not to mention his cheerleading didn't do any good in 2 anyway.

[quote]
Why not exactly? (no kinetic barries in cutscenes and single shot kills)
[/quote]

Exactly. Why no kinetic barriers?


[quote]
Plot hole? More like animation trouble.
 [/quote]

Still. That left me with a clear handprint on my face. There is no reason that should be left in.


[quote]
...Explain the Reaper motivation in Mass Effect.
[/quote]
To erradicate all sentient life and continue the cycle which they do because that's what they've always been doing for the lulz or other beautiful feelings they get from it.

[quote]Not to mention, the purpose of reproduction is self-fulfilling. It's how they create more Reapers[/quote]
How exactly is making a giant terminator supposed to make the reapers reproduce? Source? Or is this wild speculation?
(note - that was the OPINION of your squad mates before the fight. They were simply speculationg as to why even though they never explain)
[/quote]

[quote]
Shepard arrives. Starts shooting people. Interrupts things.
[/quote]

Ah, right. I never understood putting one dude/chick that's completely unable to move or do anything into a little coffin and putting them onto their ship was so hard to do. Also, What is priorites??? DERP!

[quote]
If the Reapers were as efficient as they claimed, there would have been no traces of the past civilizations either. Space is big. Things escape notice.
[/quote]

You'd think they'd know where THEIR OWN SHIP went to.

[quote]
The point of Klendagon is that we don't know what happened there right now.
[/quote]

Correction - plothole. Also I'm left unanswered why not tell anybody? There's proof of the reapers. Right. Freaking. There.

[quote]
Because EDI cannot activate the core herself.
[/quote]

She has DIRECT CONTROL of the ship already. It's just a simple console that joker had to go to. EDI can have access easily.

[quote]
Seekers cannot penetrate walls to our knowledge. Using them in confined spaces is incredibly tedious. They are intended for actual colonies so the Collectors can go about largely unopposed.
[/quote]

The seeker in mordin's glass box could maneuver easily. They'd navigate around the ship easily.

[quote]
Such as?
[/quote]
The Omega 4 relay battle. Seriously. Barel rolls? <_<
[quote]
Explained. Mordin tells us that there are far too many seeker swarms on the Collector Base for his counter measure to work effectively.
[/quote] What was mordin doing on the ship all the time though? He should of been improving rather than just repeat the same lines to me about STDs.

[quote]Legion needs a unique animation to be carried off by seeker swarms or take a rocket to the face?
[/quote]



So let me get this straight. When robots get shot,
they start feeling weak in the knees, clutch at their bullet would and slowly
die like an actual organic rather than a system failure?



Gotcha.

Modifié par madman0311, 16 janvier 2011 - 06:21 .