467 réponses à ce sujet

[adam_grif]

Satanic Hamster wrote...

Frotality wrote...

wilson betrays cerberus in the beginning and it is never said why

Personally?  I think he did that under orders from the Illusive Man to make it more likely that Shepard would trust Cerebus.  Why else would Shepard wake up with no IV's, feeding tubes, ANYTHING attached to him?  

_________________
Currently listening to Coheed & Cambria's the Second Stage Turbine Blade

Because Miranda started the process of waking you up at some time before you woke up, and either her or automated systems unplugged your stuff so you could get up and move around.

[huntrrz]

KalReegar wrote...

The fact that the ME2 Normandy SR-1 has escape pods (including one just aft of the bridge) and yet in ME1 no evidence of escape pods exist. I may be wrong on this one.

I think the presence of escape pods on military ships is mentioned in a Codex entry... ...I think...

I was curious about that also and checked the wall where the bridge pod was while I was replaying ME1 - there's a ribbed wall there that could be a retractible panel that rolls away when the order to abandon ship is given, so I gave them a pass on that.  I think they provided for it in the original design but weren't explicit about them being there.

[huntrrz]

Sidney wrote...

KalReegar wrote...

Its somewhat explained in ME2 that Cerberus is comprised of different "cells", with operatives and an overseer in each cell, all overseen by the Illusive Man. The ME2 squad is the Lazarus Cell, while its likely the Rachni project was another cell.

...but Miranda says she works the highest value/high risk projects. Ther was no Lazarus in ME1 since Shep hadn't been blown into space.

Really the whole soft peddling of Cerebus is sort of the biggest, I won't say hole but inconsistency. I mean you've got people like Jacob, Kelly, and then plenty of the old crew of the Normandy all playing with Cerebus when in ME1 these guys were the king scumbags of the galaxy. Let's see:

• Rachni experiments
• Thorian experiments
• Turned Chasca into husks (so much for helping humanity)
• Used Threser Maws vs colonies on Akuze
• Used thresher maws yet again on some more marines
• Biotic expeirments and the whole super solider thing

...but now they are just misunderstood or else the people you are with are sadly not up to date on the lastest and greatest news.

I think it's the later - Shepard and the Alliance/Council are up to date on Cerberus' attrocities, but the average citizen probably doesn't even know they exist.  (Remember the Council's habit of keeping things under wraps to maintain the illusion that they have everything well under control.)  The vast majority of Normady 2's crew probably only know that they've been recruited by a secretive but well-funded organization to protect humanity's best interests.

[Vince986]

Sidney wrote...

The thing that felt most "wrong" to me is
that in ME1 Cerebus is a shadowy underworld sort of bunch. In ME2, they
seem to be right out in the open, have a spaceship festooned with their
logo, a big space station and neat uniforms plus everyone and their dog
seems to know what they are up to. I guess i was the only uniformed one
in ME1.

I'm also a bit curious since Miranda is a the top dog
doing the most important/dangerous stuff for Cerebus why she wasn't
running their Rachni program which seems like, pre-Lazarus, the biggest
deal they had going.

Apparently Admiral Kohoku (sp?) 
was badly informed as well - if I recall, he sent a radio message to
Shepard indicating that they were a Alliance / Government Black Ops team
that had gone rogue.    I guess we can look at this as misinformation - rather than a significant change in the origins of Cerberus.

[HRHotsauce]

Cerberus spent 4+ billion rebuilding Shepard, but we have to rummage through garbage for credits.

Also, there's no way Shepard could have THREE FAVORITE stores on the Citadel <_<

Modifié par HRHotsauce, 13 février 2010 - 06:29 .

[mhendon]

KalReegar wrote...


And how Shepard's body survived reentry of the planet Alchera, when the temperatures of such are enough to completely incinerate a body.

This assuming Alshera has an atmosphere similar to earth.  Shephard's body didn't burn up so we can assume it doesn't...and if it actually does than shame on BW!!!

Squadmates unprotective outfits was a plot hole to me...

Joker being exposed bare skin to vaccuum space when he goes from the protected cockpit to the escape shuttles.

...I have to think sum more...

[Gill Kaiser]

Being in space unprotected for short periods of time isn't really that bad, especially if you have a breathing mask.

[mhendon]

Oh!!! Paragon Shepherd, when told by Jacob in the beginning that they work for Cerberus Shepherd will say something like "Some kind of splinter group right?" And then 10 mins later when talking to TIM will say something like "I would NEVER would for terrorists!!" From that point on, Shephard is actually possessed by the vengeful spirit of admiral kuhoku

[Coughee Brotha]

 How did ashley (or Alenko) get out of the stasis.  they just creep from around the corner

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

you're a plot hole

[Varaige]

I don't think they explained Cerberus well at all in the first one. They simply used it as side missions and wanted a "bad group" aside from Geth. In ME2 they created three merc groups for you fights: Blue Suns, Eclipse, Blood Pack. I honestly didn't expect Bioware to have Shephard working for Cerberus and was a little upset that it went that route. But you have to look at it from their angle - Who would have funded Shephard's mission? The council discredited everything that happened and blamed the Geth.



Wilson's debate: Maybe the Illusive Man set it up like that. It wouldn't suprise me one bit. His eyes seem to give clues to something, not to throw out misinformation, but if I listened to the dialog through the game and watched the final cut scenes with Harbringer - It looked like a Reaper had control of the Collector Leader, then released it's control to let them die. If this is true, perhaps the Illusive Man is the same way. Another thing to think about is the implants that Saren had done to him - when Sovereign took control of Saren's dead body, they exact changes happened as the Collector's who become possessed. Is the technology used in Shephard bought by Cerberus from the Collector's?

[Ryuushin]

the only thing i could think of is the corpses got back to normandy after they were abaddoned in the final cut scene, at least in my cut scene, i saw collectors stepped over jack's body and then bam, the coffin on my ship

[Coughee Brotha]

77boy84 wrote...

Tali falling in love with Shepard in ME1 even if you treated her like dirt and didn't even want her coming with you.

Also Shepard knowing about heatsinks when he wakes up.

Those are probably the biggest plotholes I can think of. They sound minor because I can only think of minor ones.

Shepard didnt die til one month after soveriegn.  could have incorporated new tech in tht time.  technology was moving fast.  think how it only took a hundred years to move across te galaxy after finding the relay and their advancement. just speculation though

[mhendon]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Being in space unprotected for short periods of time isn't really that bad, especially if you have a breathing mask.

"Some
degree of consciousness will probably be retained for 9 to 11 seconds
(see chapter 2 under Hypoxia). In rapid sequence thereafter, paralysis
will be followed by generalized convulsions and paralysis once again.
During this time, water vapor will form rapidly in the soft tissues and
somewhat less rapidly in the venous blood. This evolution of water
vapor will cause marked swelling of the body to perhaps twice its
normal volume unless it is restrained by a pressure suit. (It has been
demonstrated that a properly fitted elastic garment can entirely
prevent ebullism at pressures as low as 15 mm Hg absolute [Webb, 1969,
1970].) Heart rate may rise initially, but will fall rapidly
thereafter. Arterial blood pressure will also fall over a period of 30
to 60 seconds, while venous pressure rises due to distention of the
venous system by gas and vapor. Venous pressure will meet or exceed
arterial pressure within one minute. There will be virtually no
effective circulation of blood. After an initial rush of gas from the
lungs during decompression, gas and water vapor will continue to flow
outward through the airways. This continual evaporation of water will
cool the mouth and nose to near-freezing temperatures; the remainder of
the body will also become cooled, but more slowly.

"Cook and
Bancroft (1966) reported occasional deaths of animals due to
fibrillation of the heart during the first minute of exposure to near
vacuum conditions. Ordinarily, however, survival was the rule if
recompression occurred within about 90 seconds. ... Once heart action
ceased, death was inevitable, despite attempts at resuscitation....
[on
recompression] "Breathing usually began spontaneously... Neurological
problems, including blindness and other defects in vision, were common
after exposures (see problems due to evolved gas), but usually
disappeared fairly rapidly.
"It
is very unlikely that a human suddenly exposed to a vacuum would have
more than 5 to 10 seconds to help himself. If immediate help is at
hand, although one's appearance and condition will be grave, it is
reasonable to assume that recompression to a tolerable pressure (200 mm
Hg, 3.8 psia) within 60 to 90 seconds could result in survival, and
possibly in rather rapid recovery."

www.geoffreylandis.com/vacuum.html

So if Joker went from cockpit to escape in pod in 9-11 secs (which entirly possible)  he MIGHT be okay, but it is still a plot hole.  Still sounds bad

Modifié par mhendon, 13 février 2010 - 06:42 .

[Abirn]

I'd like to know where EDI got the info that the reapers failed to turn the protheans into a prothean reaper.

[Serogon]

What...? You say it's perfectly believable and it's possible for him to be perfectly fine and for everything to logically work out the way it did, yet you still say it's a plot hole?

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

Abirn wrote...

I'd like to know where EDI got the info that the reapers failed to turn the protheans into a prothean reaper.

it was just a theory

[mhendon]

Serogon wrote...

What...? You say it's perfectly believable and it's possible for him to be perfectly fine and for everything to logically work out the way it did, yet you still say it's a plot hole?

Sorry, I was trying to say he would be okay eventually.  He would be hurt, though, at least that's what I got from the article.  He didn't seem cold or anything just brittle, as usual.  I imagine any amount of vaccuum exposure would be agony according to this.  That's what I mean by plot hole.  Its not even a plot hole just sort of oversight.

Modifié par mhendon, 13 février 2010 - 06:48 .

[Serogon]

mhendon wrote...

Serogon wrote...

What...? You say it's perfectly believable and it's possible for him to be perfectly fine and for everything to logically work out the way it did, yet you still say it's a plot hole?

Sorry, I was trying to say he would be okay eventually.  He would be hurt, though, at least that's what I got from the article.  He didn't seem cold or anything just brittle, as usual.  I imagine any amount of vaccuum exposure would be agony according to this.  That's what I mean by plot hole.

Yeah, it's agony and he'd need a recovery period, but it's 2 years until you see him again. That's PLENTY of time. It's not even close to a plot hole.

[Gill Kaiser]

mhendon wrote...

Serogon wrote...

What...? You say it's perfectly believable and it's possible for him to be perfectly fine and for everything to logically work out the way it did, yet you still say it's a plot hole?

Sorry, I was trying to say he would be okay eventually.  He would be hurt, though, at least that's what I got from the article.  He didn't seem cold or anything just brittle, as usual.  I imagine any amount of vaccuum exposure would be agony according to this.  That's what I mean by plot hole.

He had a mask covering his mouth, eyes and nose, which are the entrances to the body. The body itself is pretty airtight, so outside vaccuum wouldn't affect it quickly. Joker might be a perforated eardrum or something, but besides that he would only have to worry about heat loss via radiation, which isn't fast at all. Think about it - vaccuum is the best insulator imaginable.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 13 février 2010 - 06:50 .

[mhendon]

That article was gold. Gill Kaiser is right, but it feels like we shouldn't be having this discussion at all. the main problem is decompression, not heat loss. He would need a pressurized suit to prevent that as the article suggests, but again it would take 9-11 seconds for decompression to adversely affect him. Perhaps it was a failure of bioware to consider the audience: one that has been influenced by scenes of Hollywood astronauts being instantly frozen, or that we wouldn't think about it that much...or, on the positive end, BW beleived we actually knew something about space. This now seems to be a very complicated scene. I will rationalize it Lol. I seem to think as I post. I've learned a lot. Thanks for the argument

[KalReegar]

Allowing the Normandy to dock at the Citadel, when its a Cerberus vessel, and supposedly the enemy of the Council and Alliance.



Why Cerberus seems to enjoy flaunting its logo on everything, when its supposedly a "black-ops organization".

[sniper1250]

KalReegar wrote...

Allowing the Normandy to dock at the Citadel, when its a Cerberus vessel, and supposedly the enemy of the Council and Alliance.

Why Cerberus seems to enjoy flaunting its logo on everything, when its supposedly a "black-ops organization".

First point: Citadel Security sucks. Geth do not intentionally infiltrate, they just end up doing it because C-Sec doesn't actually do anything other than look like they're doing something.

Second point: Cerberus wants Shepard to save the galaxy with their logo on him/her so that the opinions of random other factions would improve towards them. Kinda like how sponsors put their logos on racing cars and stadiums.

[GCFusion]

huntrrz wrote...

KalReegar wrote...

The fact that the ME2 Normandy SR-1 has escape pods (including one just aft of the bridge) and yet in ME1 no evidence of escape pods exist. I may be wrong on this one.

I think the presence of escape pods on military ships is mentioned in a Codex entry... ...I think...

I was curious about that also and checked the wall where the bridge pod was while I was replaying ME1 - there's a ribbed wall there that could be a retractible panel that rolls away when the order to abandon ship is given, so I gave them a pass on that.  I think they provided for it in the original design but weren't explicit about them being there.

I have been looking for possible locations for the escape pods all over the ship.  The only one I have identified is behind the wall near the cockpit (across from the airlock).

Additionally, I found that the location of the emergency beacon Shepard is attempting to launch at the very beginning is located behind a similar wall on the platform where the sleeping pods are located.

I am still having problems finding possible locations that the rest of the escape pods however.