103 réponses à ce sujet

[baller7345]

JaegerBane wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...
This superficial analysis is wrong.  The vast majority of enemies in game have a significant amount of health.  Enemies continue to do full dps while down to health and on insanity, it takes a nontrivial amount of time to kill them.  This is especially true when dealing with packs of enemies.
-Cryo ammo/blast crowd controls enemies for roughly 33-50% of the time they're alive.  This is always useful. Against packs of regular mobs, it reduces damage taken by your squad by up to 50%.  It also keeps mobs from ducking back behind cover (one of the things that slows down kill speed the most in ME2).  Against tough enemies like Heavy Mechs, its just as useful.
-Cryo ammo/blast also offer a damage boost against frozen targets.  This acts as an effective bonus to damage against health.  This is nice because it likely stacks with any ammo bonuses you have. So if you have Tungsten ammo, and cyroblast an enemy (or have your squadmates shoot it with cryo ammo), you get the bonus dage from both Tungsten and the freeze effect.  This DRAMATICALLY increases dps because the vast majority of enemies have significant amounts of health.

Look, without wanting to be blunt, I would suggest you actually make sure you understand what has been said before branding anything 'superficial'. I can only assume you haven't, judging from the fact that both issues you've brought up here have little relevance when considered within the context of the game, nor do they make much sense regarding the issue of armour being discussed in this very thread.

Case in point - any enemy that Cryo can affect, can also be taken down by Biotics *far* faster. That's the core issue, in case you didn't realise. All the gumph about how it creates damage bonuses and stops firing is taking place on enemies who could, in far less time, be simply blasted off the map, thrown off ledges or simply ignored (and in the case of Warp and Warp Ammo, actually falling into the increased DPS bracket too). It's a case of Cryo abilities taking more time to do the same thing.

Average Gatsby has already done great work showing how biotic abilities like pull are useful even though they don't pierce defenses. 
This complaint is made by people who:
-Haven't used these abilities extensively in game.  People like Average Gatsby with videos showing how effective they are actually have.
-Want Biotics/Tech to be as overpowered as they were in ME1 or as "magic users" tend to be in most RPGs.  I mean cryo ammo/blast freezing enemies with defenses? Why would you ever use anything else?

I really do love these absurd generalisations. The simple fact I've commented in a certain fashion must mean that I'm a munchkin, is that about right? Now I wonder where I've heard that crap before...

No-one is claiming that Cryo abilities are totally useless. There are, of course, uses to them. The point is that as Crowd Control tools, there is simply far, far better available.

I'll agree that biotics are indeed faster forms of crowd control however nothing really compares with the time that cryo blast takes enemies out of the fight.  On the sentinel I can see why it would seem underwhelming because you have throw but on the engineer it is the only effective form of AOE control.  I think why so many people lash out against what you said is simply because they see it as you stating that instead of using a cryo ability as a class that has it why not just play an adept.  If they see it like that they think you are being arrogant to the pros of having an aoe crowd control ability on a class that has no other way of accomplishing that.

Ok as to what I think about the cryo blast (can't say on the ammo haven't tried it) is that it is amazing on an engineer. It allowed me to lock down up to 5 enemies with each use and thanks to the duration I could freeze multiple groups or at the very least multiple enemies during the same fight.  When you combine a couple of frozen enemies with one enemy being droned the engineer can finally poke his head out of cover and do some krogan charging which is fun for a fragile class.

Modifié par baller7345, 16 février 2010 - 06:57 .

[SupidSeep]

JaegerBane wrote...

No-one is claiming that Cryo abilities are totally useless. There are, of course, uses to them. The point is that as Crowd Control tools, there is simply far, far better available.

Agreed on that part.
Engineers don't have anything else to use, but IMO for Sentinels Throw neutralises a target faster and has a shorter cooldown (base 3 second) compared to Cryo (base 4.5 seconds).  Any decent Sentinel would definitely have level 2 Throw to unlock Warp - why put points in an inferior power?
I've tried using Cryo Blast on charging Korgan (after removing defenses) but in the second or two before they freeze solid they were still shooting and sometimes killed me off before they stopped. Throw never had this problem because the knockdown is immediate upon impact.
It is even possible to kill (slowly) a normal (non-instagibable)unprotected target by spamming Throw to repeated smack them against a wall or floor.
Cryo powers need a boost to make them better.

[WillieStyle]

JaegerBane wrote...

Case in point - any enemy that Cryo can affect, can also be taken down by Biotics *far* faster. That's the core issue, in case you didn't realise. All the gumph about how it creates damage bonuses and stops firing is taking place on enemies who could, in far less time, be simply blasted off the map, thrown off ledges or simply ignored (and in the case of Warp and Warp Ammo, actually falling into the increased DPS bracket too). It's a case of Cryo abilities taking more time to do the same thing.

This is false.  It is often faster to freeze then shoot an enemy than it is to kill it with Warp.
Furthermore, you setup a false choice between biotics and cryo abilities. 
Using Warp on Armor then Cryo on health and shattering with gunfire is often faster than using Warp on Armor and then Warp on health while firing.

I really do love these absurd generalisations. The simple fact I've commented in a certain fashion must mean that I'm a munchkin, is that about right? Now I wonder where I've heard that crap before...

No-one is claiming that Cryo abilities are totally useless. There are, of course, uses to them. The point is that as Crowd Control tools, there is simply far, far better available.

Again this is false.  Cryoblast's duration is the longer than that of any other Crowd control ability in game except pull.  Cryoblast boosts weapon damage while Pull boosts Warp damage.  It's not clear that one is better than the other.
Your suggestion that Cryoblast and Biotic abilities should work against all defenses (armor/shields/barriers) would make them overpowered. 

[Arde5643]

dynas2001 wrote...

as an engineer being stormed by husks, vorcha ... on higher difficulty levels any freezing ability is useless as they all have armor.

That's why you shoot their armors first with 1-2 shots of a heavy pistol then cyro them.

Of course, unless you want to use incinerate on one enemy which will take even longer time to cooldown.
The other problem is your powers do more damage to unprotected husks than your weapons do.

Killing unprotected husks with low cooldown powers or cyro ammo is the preferred way rather than emptying your clip into a single unprotected husk and having to reload while others swarm you.
It's much more efficient and faster to take down their armor first with either assault rifle or heavy pistol then using cyro/throw/pull/singularity on them.

Cyro ammo also saves my infil's life so many times during a husk rush simply because I was waiting for the long cooldown of incinerate to finish. 1-2 shots w/ heavy pistol to remove armor and one shot to freeze for insta-kill.

[thisisme8]

Plenty of fun Cryo here.  And it's only level 1!

ME2 - CQC Infiltrator 2

[JaegerBane]

WillieStyle wrote...
This is false.  It is often faster to freeze then shoot an enemy than it is to kill it with Warp.
Furthermore, you setup a false choice between biotics and cryo abilities. 
Using Warp on Armor then Cryo on health and shattering with gunfire is often faster than using Warp on Armor and then Warp on health while firing.

You appear to have misunderstood the point (again). Warp is not a crowd control ability.

I don't really know whether you're intentionally misunderstanding the argument here (as it's an extremely simple one), but you don't seem to be able to grasp the point that Cryo effects only come into play when armour and defences are no more. It may well be faster to freeze and shoot an enemy than by warping it, but what this actually has to do with the issue being discussed here you have not made clear.

The point is that the second Cryo becomes an option, Pull, Throw, Shockwave, Singularity also all become options, and they deal with an enemy in the fraction of the time it would take a Cryo ability to work.

Thus, since Cryo is doing the same thing, only requiring more time to do it, the logical conclusion is that Cryo sucks.

Until you can actually answer this issue rather than veering off into fangasms over Gatsby or repeating the same words over and over again, I'm afraid you're stuck.

And what on earth is a 'false choice' about the comparison? Are you claiming Sentinels and Vanguards magically don't have both Cryo and Biotic powers available to them?

Again this is false.  Cryoblast's duration is the longer than that of any other Crowd control ability in game except pull.  Cryoblast boosts weapon damage while Pull boosts Warp damage.  It's not clear that one is better than the other.
Your suggestion that Cryoblast and Biotic abilities should work against all defenses (armor/shields/barriers) would make them overpowered. 

I'm going to assume that you've overlooked the fact that frozen enemies tend to fall down (i.e. quite easily behind cover) whereas biotically caught enemies tend to float way up in front of people's crosshairs.

I'm also going to assume that you've overlooked the fact that Cryo has no linear abilities like Shockwave, nor does it have persistent effects like Singularity. Ultimately all the above argument proves is that it can hold enemies a bit longer than Throw, and unlike Throw, it has no ability to shove them into dangerous places or do damage.

Ultimately, this kind of debate only functions if you actually consider all angles rather than just picking and choosing what agrees with your argument and ignoring stuff that doesn't.

I have to confess that I've no idea why you're still banging on about Warp. Warp is not a crowd control ability. It' a damage ability. It's like trying to glean some sort of meaningful conclusion from comparing Barrier to Concussion Shot.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 16 février 2010 - 11:19 .

[WillieStyle]

JaegerBane wrote...

You appear to have misunderstood the point (again). Warp is not a crowd control ability.

I don't really know whether you're intentionally misunderstanding the argument here (as it's an extremely simple one), but you don't seem to be able to grasp the point that Cryo effects only come into play when armour and defences are no more. It may well be faster to freeze and shoot an enemy than by warping it, but what this actually has to do with the issue being discussed here you have not made clear.

The point is that the second Cryo becomes an option, Pull, Throw, Shockwave, Singularity also all become options, and they deal with an enemy in the fraction of the time it would take a Cryo ability to work.

Thus, since Cryo is doing the same thing, only requiring more time to do it, the logical conclusion is that Cryo sucks.

Until you can actually answer this issue rather than veering off into fangasms over Gatsby or repeating the same words over and over again, I'm afraid you're stuck.

And what on earth is a 'false choice' about the comparison? Are you claiming Sentinels and Vanguards magically don't have both Cryo and Biotic powers available to them?

Nonsense. Your initial claim was that by the time an enemy was down to health, they could be "taken out" much faster with biotics than by freezing them.  This is false. 
You now want to change your argument to claim that Biotic crowd control abilities like Pull and Singularity are much more effective as crowd control than Cryoblast.  This is also false.  They each have their pluses and minuses. Cryoblast is probably more effective if most of your dps comes from weapons, while biotic abilities are more effective if your dps comes from powers like warp.  Furthermore, cryo ammo doesn't use up one of your cooldowns. It can be applied to squadmate weapons reducing its oppurtunity cost to almost 0. 
In anycase, Biotic abilities do not render Cryoblast or Cryo ammo superfluous. And they most certainly do not mean that cryo blast/ammo should affect enemies with armor.

I'm going to assume that you've overlooked the fact that frozen enemies tend to fall down (i.e. quite easily behind cover) whereas biotically caught enemies tend to float way up in front of people's crosshairs.

I'm also going to assume that you've overlooked the fact that Cryo has no linear abilities like Shockwave, nor does it have persistent effects like Singularity. Ultimately all the above argument proves is that it can hold enemies a bit longer than Throw, and unlike Throw, it has no ability to shove them into dangerous places or do damage.

Ultimately, this kind of debate only functions if you actually consider all angles rather than just picking and choosing what agrees with your argument and ignoring stuff that doesn't.

I have to confess that I've no idea why you're still banging on about Warp. Warp is not a crowd control ability. It' a damage ability. It's like trying to glean some sort of meaningful conclusion from comparing Barrier to Concussion Shot.

Sigh! Your original claim was that by the time an enemy gets down to health, it can be "taken out" faster with Biotics than by freezing it.  You made no mention of crowdcontrol.  Taken out could either mean killing it with damaging abilities like warp, or crowd controlling it with abilities like Pull.  In either case, your claim was wrong.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 16 février 2010 - 11:47 .

[JaegerBane]

WillieStyle wrote...
Nonsense. Your initial claim was that by the time an enemy was down to health, they could be "taken out" much faster with biotics than by freezing them.  This is false. 

Actually, my intial 'claim' had nothing to do with the above. It was that defences have meant that Biotics are relegated to finishing moves. Whether you agree or disagree, I;d appreciate it if you actually stuck to what is being written.

You now want to change your argument to claim that Biotic crowd control abilities like Pull and Singularity are much more effective as crowd control than Cryoblast.  This is also false. 
They each have their pluses and minuses. Cryoblast is probably more effective if most of your dps comes from weapons, while biotic abilities are more effective if your dps comes from powers like warp.  Furthermore, cryo ammo doesn't use up one of your cooldowns. It can be applied to squadmate weapons reducing its oppurtunity cost to almost 0. 

Now *this* is a load of nonsense. First of all, you claim that Pull isn't actually superior, despite admitting it holds enemies for longer (the very concept of crowd control). You then go off into a discussion about DPS while trying to claim one crowd control ability is better than another. You then start bangng on about cooldowns while apparently missing the point that Cryo blast is not an ammo and that all ammos share the advantage of no cooldown effect - and that all ammos other than Cryo either have massive effects on damage or multiple effects on enemies (e.g. Disruptor on shields and synthetics).

Do you even understand what your own point is about, let alone what the point of this thread is?

I'm afraid that I haven't changed my argument at at all. *Clearly* I wasn't claiming in a comparison of CC abilities that one actually did more damage than the other. That is something you've snatched out of thin air all yourself. I\\\\\\\\'m not responsible for your inability to comprehend the discussion, after all. No-one else on here seems to be having such difficulty.

And frankly, Trying to claim that I've suddenly brought CC into the discussion because I haven't mentioned the concept of CC explicitly before now is a pathetic sub-argument that neither makes any sense (since it implies that Cryo is somehow something else and that CC is actually a minor side effect, if at all) nor does it actually have any relevance to the thread. If we discuss weapons, I'm I suddenly changing the argument if I discuss DPS?

Sigh! Your original claim was that by the time an enemy gets down to health, it can be "taken out" faster with Biotics than by freezing it.  You made no mention of crowdcontrol.  Taken out could either mean killing it with damaging abilities like warp, or crowd controlling it with abilities like Pull.  In either case, your claim was wrong.

When discussing 'taken out' regarding CCs I was getting at the CC taking effect. Trying to claim I was talking about which power does the most damage out of powers that don't do damage is so whacked out I can only assume that you're throwing it in to cloud the issue. Quite why you'd think I'd be comparing stuff like Warp to CC abilities (which Cryo actually is, and has been explained to death as such on this thread) is a matter for your own apparent insanity to answer, not me.

And unless you're going to claim that shooting enemies with Cryo ammo actually functions faster than Pulling a squad of enemies, then I'm not really sure how you claim the point is 'wrong'. (Beyond mechanically repeating the word 'false' irrespective of what anyone is saying, of course).

Modifié par JaegerBane, 17 février 2010 - 12:15 .

[Roxlimn]

JaegerBane:



I think that it would improve your argument if you stopped including personal put-downs in them because it dilutes the point and weakens the power of the argument by including content that is largely immaterial to the facts.



I believe that your point is that Biotic abilities stop enemy actions faster from the point of activation and that they last longer. You can post estimated contact times, cool downs, durations and so on to strengthen that point with facts.

[JaegerBane]

Roxlimn wrote...

JaegerBane:

I think that it would improve your argument if you stopped including personal put-downs in them because it dilutes the point and weakens the power of the argument by including content that is largely immaterial to the facts.

I believe that your point is that Biotic abilities stop enemy actions faster from the point of activation and that they last longer. You can post estimated contact times, cool downs, durations and so on to strengthen that point with facts.

Roxlimn, if you want to take on the mantle of forum sheriff then please take into account everything that is being said. Willey didn't exactly wade into this discussion with a civil argument and I'm sure he doesn't need you to hold his hand. He'll get spoken to in the way he speaks.

My original point was actually just that they stop enemies from the point of activation faster, the duration is something that has somehow gotten in here as the debate progressed. My reasoning for this was primarily related towards Cryo *ammo*, which by it's nature cannot occur on multiple enemies at once (since shep cannot shoot through walls nor can his his squad can be relied upon to instantly target different enemies in the way an AoE crowd control can).

Cryo Blast is somewhat less inferior but still does cause enemies to fall over, which in a cover environment, can often mean that they are no longer within LoS.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 17 février 2010 - 12:27 .

[WillieStyle]

Roxlimn wrote...

JaegerBane:

I think that it would improve your argument if you stopped including personal put-downs in them because it dilutes the point and weakens the power of the argument by including content that is largely immaterial to the facts.

I believe that your point is that Biotic abilities stop enemy actions faster from the point of activation and that they last longer. You can post estimated contact times, cool downs, durations and so on to strengthen that point with facts.

I find it best just to ignore people once they've demonstrated they aren't capable of participating in a civil and informed discussion.

[JaegerBane]

WillieStyle wrote...
I find it best just to ignore people once they've demonstrated they aren't capable of participating in a civil and informed discussion.

Or presumably when you can't actually answer the point, either.

[Roxlimn]

JaegerBane:



I believe WillieStyle's point is that Cryoblast, while possessing a delay in its CC capability, does not displace the opponent upwards and grants a damage bonus against the controlled target. Whereas upwards displacement is desirable when you're drawing the enemy out of cover, freezing the target in its tracks is preferable when you're in close range and want to take out the target with gunfire ASAP. It's also less likely to accidentally place the target somewhere inconvenient.

Roxlimn, if you want to take on the mantle of forum sheriff then please take into account everything that is being said. Willey didn't exactly wade into this discussion with a civil argument and I'm sure he doesn't need you to hold his hand. He'll get spoken to in the way he speaks.

I'm not acting in the capacity of a moderator. I'm just commenting that your argument would be stronger if it didn't contain so much extraneous material. It's only incidental that it happens to be inflammatory. If you had posted a lot of content on airplane dynamics by way of analogy, I would have commented the same way.

My original point was actually just that they stop enemies from the point of activation faster, the duration is something that has somehow gotten in here as the debate progressed. My reasoning for this was primarily related towards Cryo *ammo*, which by it's nature cannot occur on multiple enemies at once (since shep cannot shoot through walls nor can his his squad can be relied upon to instantly target different enemies in the way an AoE crowd control can).

Actually, Cryo Ammo lasts long enough that you CAN have it active on multiple targets at once, and I have done so, in fact, precisely for the purpose of fire control. Normally, FFing targets and killing them quickly is preferable - when you have damage-oriented ammo. When you have stunning ammo, what you want is to spread your fire around so that less enemies fire back. It's an effective tactic for both Disruptor and Cryo Ammo.

[Your Synthetic Superior]

Sfox1989 wrote...

To me, any ability that literally freezes a target should be awesome. So how do you think Bioware could improve Cryo abilities to make them awesome like they should be?

With 1 point trained into cryo you can insta-freeze anyone withont armor/shields with a sniper rifle. I only use it with the sniper rifle. Very go against husks at range as their momentum causes them to self shatter, but the cryo heavy weapons is best for husks.... It becomes a massacre.

[KadeMisae]

The only thing I'd like to see is that the 'freeze' effect applied to barriers and armor, against health the enemy freezes in place, and takes double damage, against barriers and shields, they become 'frosted' and not CC'd, but said layer of defense, be it barriers or shields, takes the double damage until either they thaw, or that layer is removed, so you could frost a barrier, and the barrier would take double damage, but they would unfrost as soon as the barrier went down, so you'd have to refrost their armor or refreeze their health.



This would give tech powers some of the same stacking effects we see with biotics. It also makes sense, cooler air conducts electricity better, frozen armor that is rapidly reheated would fall apart, and with the heavier frozen particles in the air, barriers and shields would have trouble mitigating impacts.

[SupidSeep]

Cryo supporters, I have yet to notice a counter to the point that after SUCCESSFUL use of Cryo (ammo or power) on an unprotected target, it still takes a second or two for said target to freeze completely. Til the freeze is complete, target is still mobile and poses a threat (can still shoot) and I have died to attacks from a freezing target. Biotic powers like throw would immediately neutralise the said target without the delay.

[baller7345]

SupidSeep wrote...

Cryo supporters, I have yet to notice a counter to the point that after SUCCESSFUL use of Cryo (ammo or power) on an unprotected target, it still takes a second or two for said target to freeze completely. Til the freeze is complete, target is still mobile and poses a threat (can still shoot) and I have died to attacks from a freezing target. Biotic powers like throw would immediately neutralise the said target without the delay.

Ok, I'll try of course you may end up disagreeing and it may not work with the ammo but hey I like a challenge.  In my experience when I use cryo blast I am behind cover when I use it so I have the animation that pops shepard up out of cover and then goes back down.  The time it takes for this animation to complete itself pretty much means when you hop out of cover to advance your position they are already frozen or so close to being frozen that they don't get enough shots off to make a difference.

I will say that cryo blast isn't a oh crap charging krogan derternt like throw but as long as you plan out what you are going to freeze and where you are moving after you fling it you should rarely find the time it takes to freeze a problem.  As to the charging krogan deterrant I have 1 point in neural shock.

Basically I'm trying to say while similar to throw its use isn't necessarily the same as throw or it isn't for me.  Cryo blast is something I use to advance farther into enemy territory but it but it isn't going to give you a instant neutralization.  It takes a little more patience than throw but there are many occassions where I had an entire room of enemies frozen and proceeded to melee them to death. (on insanity just to avoid confusion)

I don't know if this answers your question but I figured I'd at least try and at the very least throw my thoughts on the power at you.  If I changed your mind then I'm glad to be of help but if not then I guess I'll be able to say that I still find the cryo abilites as some of the useful abilites in the game.  Oh well to each their own.

[Roxlimn]

baller7345:



An entire room frozen? What's the radius of your Full Cryo Blast, anyway?

[baller7345]

Roxlimn wrote...

baller7345:

An entire room frozen? What's the radius of your Full Cryo Blast, anyway?

Yeah sorry about that I should have probably explained that one better.  Ok take your average side quest room with about 4-5 guys.  I can get all 5 in one blast (3m radius) but most of the time it works out where I catch 2 with one and then 2 with the other or 3 and 1(ok after typing that math sucks but it would be 3 then 2 or if I'm really lucky 4 and 1.  The duration allows me to get 2 off without having someone unthaw or at the very least they will still be out of the action for a few seconds due to them falling over after they unthaw.

It wasn't meant to mean I do it all the time I was outlining the the optimal use of the power, and I probably should have stated this. 

Modifié par baller7345, 17 février 2010 - 05:03 .

[Graunt]

WillieStyle wrote...

Using Warp on Armor then Cryo on health and shattering with gunfire is
often faster than using Warp on Armor and then Warp on health while
firing.

One Warp can remove all armor from the majority of non elite enemies in the game and a second Warp does in fact outright kill some enemies and most that it doesn't,  it takes down to 1/4th life.  Maybe Cryo gains ground on higher  health enemies as long as the shatter effect isn't based off the targets health.

Modifié par Graunt, 17 février 2010 - 05:18 .

[finnithe]

How does Cyro Blast work exactly? I haven't really used it on any of my characters enough to know. Does Area Cyro Blast freeze protected enemies? If it doesn't, then a Singularity (or Pull)/Warp combo might be better since it does root the protected enemies, while allowing you to cause some major AoE damage with Warp explosions once one of them has lost their protection(s). I dunno how the mechanics of Cyro Blast work so I may be wrong.

[baller7345]

finnithe wrote...

How does Cyro Blast work exactly? I haven't really used it on any of my characters enough to know. Does Area Cyro Blast freeze protected enemies? If it doesn't, then a Singularity (or Pull)/Warp combo might be better since it does root the protected enemies, while allowing you to cause some major AoE damage with Warp explosions once one of them has lost their protection(s). I dunno how the mechanics of Cyro Blast work so I may be wrong.

Full Cryo Blast doesn't freeze protected enemies and in terms of being able to crowd control singularity is better.  However, since an engineer has no other way to lock down multiple enemies we get cryo blast.  It takes a lot more thought than singularity because in order to use is effectively (catching multiple people in it) you have to set up each blast perfectly.  Its tricky but its a nice power for the engineer.

[Roxlimn]

Graunt:



Alright. Again, money time. Which difficulty level are you talking about, and which enemies specifically are you talking about and where? You say 1 Warp after removing defenses will outright kill some enemies. I would like to know which those enemies are, because I don't recall too many being that fragile.



So please, tell me where I can find these enemies because I would like to go there and fire my Warp and see them die in one hit.



I'd like to know what level of Heavy Warp upgrade (+50% Biotic Damage upgrade, I assume? That would be nearly end-game power, right?) will strip 75% of the health of "most" enemies in the game in ONE hit. I would also like to know specifically, which enemies comprise this nebulous "most." Are we talking Eclipsse mercs and Blue Suns mercs and Vorcha and LOKI Mechs?

[SupidSeep]

baller7345 wrote...

I don't know if this answers your question but I figured I'd at least try and at the very least throw my thoughts on the power at you.  If I changed your mind then I'm glad to be of help but if not then I guess I'll be able to say that I still find the cryo abilites as some of the useful abilites in the game.  Oh well to each their own.

Thanks, I appreciate a sane reply as opposed to the firebombs that were flying around.

[thisisme8]

Graunt wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

Using Warp on Armor then Cryo on health and shattering with gunfire is
often faster than using Warp on Armor and then Warp on health while
firing.

One Warp can remove all armor from the majority of non elite enemies in the game and a second Warp does in fact outright kill some enemies and most that it doesn't,  it takes down to 1/4th life.  Maybe Cryo gains ground on higher  health enemies as long as the shatter effect isn't based off the targets health.

What do I do if I'm not an Adept or Sentinel?  Did I already lose the game?

Edit:  Forgot Sentinel...  Sorry.

Modifié par thisisme8, 17 février 2010 - 01:06 .