43 réponses à ce sujet

[T0paze]

OK, you can choose to keep the genophage cure data. Good, that's what I did. But why trust Mordin to keep it, of all people? I mean, in this matter he is probably one of the the most biased people. He's not heartless and he shows some signs of compassion and sympathy for the krogan, but it's just unreasonable to leave that data to him. If he changes his mind, he'll simply destroy it or modify it so that it will become useless. Even if he doesn't change his mind, why take that risk and make him constantly question his intentions? IMHO, Shepard acts a bit stupid in this case. It would be much more logical if he just downloaded the data and kept it himself.

Modifié par T0paze, 13 février 2010 - 05:49 .

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Because he is the only one who could possibly understand his students work? If you want someone who is alive today to develop a cure for the genophage, do you know anyone smarter than Mordin to do it?

Shepard is a soldier not a scientist. 

I told Mordin to keep the data for in case, since it would be useful if the Krogan ever do develop to the point where we can cure the genophage and they won't try to start their conquest of the galaxy again.

Modifié par Mikazukinoyaiba2, 13 février 2010 - 05:51 .

[BlaiseVoltaire]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

Because he is the only one who could possibly understand his students work? If you want someone who is alive today to develop a cure for the genophage, do you know anyone smarter than Mordin to do it?

Shepard is a soldier not a scientist. 

I told Mordin to keep the data for in case, since it would be useful if the Krogan ever do develop to the point where we can cure the genophage and they won't try to start their conquest of the galaxy again.

I agree with this.

As Mordin states, creating the genophage was incredibly complicated, and modifying it was even more difficult. He is probably one of the smartest scientific figures in the ME universe, so there's no one else who Shepard is in contact with who would be able to deal with it.

The Alliance? No. The Council? Hell no. Cerberus? ....No.

Mordin is one of the only individuals I'd trust with it.

[T0paze]

That's absurd, I'm afraid.

Salarian scientists are good, but they are not so much ahead of everyone else. Asari, humans, hanar (remember Thane's story) and even turians could successfuly use that data. It's true that Mordin's former experience with the genophage makes him an excellent candidate to work on the cure in terms of pure knowledge. However, his allegiances actually make him the worst candidate!

It's like giving a important piece of data to an enemy scientist because he's a brilliant scientist. Mordin is not an enemy, but in this matter he can be reasonably expected to be extremely biased.

Modifié par T0paze, 13 février 2010 - 05:54 .

[Gill Kaiser]

Mordin is a genius, and he has the motivation to complete the cure. His alteration of the genophage was done purely out of pragmatism. He doesn't hate the krogan at all. He would happily cure the genophage if the krogan underwent a cultural evolution that curbed their aggressive tendancies and inability to temper their own growth.

[GnusmasTHX]

Because he's loyal to me and intelligent enough to complete it, in case I want to cure the krogan in the future.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Asari

Didn't create the genophage,

humans

Didn't create the genophage,

hanar

Didn't create the genophage

turians

Yeah, because the Turians totally are going to cure the genophage. They're just eager to do that.

Modifié par Mikazukinoyaiba2, 13 février 2010 - 05:59 .

[T0paze]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Mordin is a genius, and he has the motivation to complete the cure. His alteration of the genophage was done purely out of pragmatism. He doesn't hate the krogan at all. He would happily cure the genophage if the krogan underwent a cultural evolution that curbed their aggressive tendancies and inability to temper their own growth.

He doesn't actually. In fact, he was going to destroy the cure and saved only after Shepard's intervention. So, he kept it not because of his deep convictions but simple because Shepard's words convinced hem, at that moment. Big deal! He can change his mind any time, when Shepard's not around. Actually, if you talk to him after that mission, you'll see that he simply shrugged off that emotional experience.

[GnusmasTHX]

Well considering you can ask him to help the krogan, and he says yes, then he might do it.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

T0paze wrote...
. Actually, if you talk to him after that mission, you'll see that he simply shrugged off that emotional experience.

He didn't shrug if off, Salarians experience time much more quickly then we do. So while humans may mope about something for oh say.... days Salarians would mope about that same thing for around an hour or so.

[Gill Kaiser]

T0paze wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Mordin is a genius, and he has the motivation to complete the cure. His alteration of the genophage was done purely out of pragmatism. He doesn't hate the krogan at all. He would happily cure the genophage if the krogan underwent a cultural evolution that curbed their aggressive tendancies and inability to temper their own growth.

He doesn't actually. In fact, he was going to destroy the cure and saved only after Shepard's intervention. So, he kept it not because of his deep convictions but simple because Shepard's words convinced hem, at that moment. Big deal! He can change his mind any time, when Shepard's not around. Actually, if you talk to him after that mission, you'll see that he simply shrugged off that emotional experience.

The only reason he was going to destroy it was due to ethical concerns. He didn't like the experimental methods that were used to obtain it. It was nothing to do with him not wanting a cure to be developed (although he certainly doesn't want one to be released with krogan culture as it is at the time of ME2). Mordin would happily develop the cure, he just probably wouldn't distribute it until simulations deemed the krogan ready.

[T0paze]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

Asari
Didn't create the genophage,

humans

Didn't create the genophage,

hanar

Didn't create the genophage

turians

Yeah, because the Turians totally are going to cure the genophage. They're just eager to do that.

Honestly, I don't get it. they didn't create the genophage, so what? The genophage is not a miracle, it's just a scientific project. What matters here is the general level of science. So, any other race that is as developed as the salarians can reconstruct that data.

There are lots of developed nations in this world that didn't create nuclear weapons - does this mean that their scientists will not be able to use the data? They might not do that as fast as those who created those weapons in the first place, but that's just a matter of time.

[AtreiyaN7]

Mordin is the smartest scientist that Shepard knows and trusts, salarian or otherwise. He was directly involved in modifying the genophage, which gives him an edge in any research involving the genophage and/or cure. Besides, Mordin never wanted to wipe the krogan out. I think he'd help them if he could, so long as the krogan population levels were to remain stable and in balance. The whole reason for the genophage in the first place was that the krogans had a population explosion and would have eventually overrun the galaxy due to their formerly prodigious fertility levels.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 13 février 2010 - 06:04 .

[Internet Kraken]

T0paze wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Mordin is a genius, and he has the motivation to complete the cure. His alteration of the genophage was done purely out of pragmatism. He doesn't hate the krogan at all. He would happily cure the genophage if the krogan underwent a cultural evolution that curbed their aggressive tendancies and inability to temper their own growth.

He doesn't actually. In fact, he was going to destroy the cure and saved only after Shepard's intervention. So, he kept it not because of his deep convictions but simple because Shepard's words convinced hem, at that moment. Big deal! He can change his mind any time, when Shepard's not around. Actually, if you talk to him after that mission, you'll see that he simply shrugged off that emotional experience.

Really? Becuase I remember Mordin being very conflicted when I did that mission last night. He was debating whether or not to keep or destroy the cure, with Shepard's opinnion making him lean towards one side.

Besides, what harm is there in letting Mordin keep the cure? I don't see him as the type of person to randomly destroy valuable sceintific data. And he didn't shurg of the genophage cure becuase it was unimportant. He had to focus on the Collector threat at the time. That's a smart decision.

I really don't see why having Mordin keep the cure is a problem.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

The Salarians are still the most advanced scientists out of every race so far, no race can compare to their advancements as of now and I'm sure the data on the original genophage is classified and thus is only available w/ the Salarian government. Giving it to the Asari, Hanar (lawl), and humans isn't going to be much help unless the Salarians give them information on the original genophage as well.



You have to know about the modification project (which itself was based on the original project) to make a cure.



end of story

There are lots of developed nations in this world that didn't create nuclear weapons - does this mean that their scientists will not be able to use the data?

Biotechnology isn't the same as nuclear physics, I can assure you of that.

[T0paze]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

T0paze wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Mordin is a genius, and he has the motivation to complete the cure. His alteration of the genophage was done purely out of pragmatism. He doesn't hate the krogan at all. He would happily cure the genophage if the krogan underwent a cultural evolution that curbed their aggressive tendancies and inability to temper their own growth.

He doesn't actually. In fact, he was going to destroy the cure and saved only after Shepard's intervention. So, he kept it not because of his deep convictions but simple because Shepard's words convinced hem, at that moment. Big deal! He can change his mind any time, when Shepard's not around. Actually, if you talk to him after that mission, you'll see that he simply shrugged off that emotional experience.

The only reason he was going to destroy it was due to ethical concerns. He didn't like the experimental methods that were used to obtain it. It was nothing to do with him not wanting a cure to be developed (although he certainly doesn't want one to be released with krogan culture as it is at the time of ME2). Mordin would happily develop the cure, he just probably wouldn't distribute it until simulations deemed the krogan ready.

The point is, why risk and guess? Even if willing to do it right now, he still may change his mind in the future. What I'm saying is that his allegiances and his role in the creation of the genophage make his a horrible candidate to trust to keep that data.

[Gill Kaiser]

T0paze wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

T0paze wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Mordin is a genius, and he has the motivation to complete the cure. His alteration of the genophage was done purely out of pragmatism. He doesn't hate the krogan at all. He would happily cure the genophage if the krogan underwent a cultural evolution that curbed their aggressive tendancies and inability to temper their own growth.

He doesn't actually. In fact, he was going to destroy the cure and saved only after Shepard's intervention. So, he kept it not because of his deep convictions but simple because Shepard's words convinced hem, at that moment. Big deal! He can change his mind any time, when Shepard's not around. Actually, if you talk to him after that mission, you'll see that he simply shrugged off that emotional experience.

The only reason he was going to destroy it was due to ethical concerns. He didn't like the experimental methods that were used to obtain it. It was nothing to do with him not wanting a cure to be developed (although he certainly doesn't want one to be released with krogan culture as it is at the time of ME2). Mordin would happily develop the cure, he just probably wouldn't distribute it until simulations deemed the krogan ready.

The point is, why risk and guess? Even if willing to do it right now, he still may change his mind in the future. What I'm saying is that his allegiances and his role in the creation of the genophage make his a horrible candidate to trust to keep that data.

Well, I disagree.

[T0paze]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

The Salarians are still the most advanced scientists out of every race so far, no race can compare to their advancements as of now and I'm sure the data on the original genophage is classified and thus is only available w/ the Salarian government. Giving it to the Asari, Hanar (lawl), and humans isn't going to be much help unless the Salarians give them information on the original genophage as well.

You have to know about the modification project (which itself was based on the original project) to make a cure.

end of story

There are lots of developed nations in this world that didn't create nuclear weapons - does this mean that their scientists will not be able to use the data?

Biotechnology isn't the same as nuclear physics, I can assure you of that.

Well, I'm afraid that's an exaggeration. Besides, it doesn't matter whether the salarians are the best scientists or not. Even if they are, it doesn't change anything, they are primus inter pares, at best, and that means nothing. There's a difference between creating a new weapon/cure and reconstructing it. The latter is much, much easier. 

Modifié par T0paze, 13 février 2010 - 06:13 .

[Beechwell]

I think the point is that it is a sign of trust towards Mordin, which he needs to be loyal.

Besides if someone else had it who might carelessly try to use it to develop a cure, without being able to gauge the consequences, I think that would lie more heavily on Mordin's conscience than having it available himself.



I would be more concerned that EDI, and thus Cerberus may gain access to the files (data transfer between all kinds of storage devices seems to be quite easy). I certainly wouldn't trust TIM with the data.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

T0paze wrote...
There's a difference between creating a new weapon/cure and reconstructing it. The latter is much, much easier. 

I can attest that recreating a plasmid or hell, anything when it comes to genetics is way harder than creating it. Because you're making something, but you're also trying to make sure it doesn't interfere with anything else and integrates perfectly.

You need to start thinking in terms of biotechnology and not physical weapon creation. Mordin himself said so, modifying the genophage was 1000x more difficult in creating it and based on my lab experience and understanding of genetics.. that is very much true.

[SidNitzerglobin]

You give Mordin the data because the whole mission is about building trust and loyalty with him. If you've played the mission in a way that seems consistent with keeping the data, Mordin has come to see how maybe the Genophage wasn't the only response possible to the krogan threat, or at least not something that will necessarily need to continue forever. That's what I got out of it anyways.

Also, like Beechwell mentions, I'd trust Mordin with the data alot more than Cerberus.

Modifié par SidNitzerglobin, 13 février 2010 - 06:34 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Regarding EDI: I think she's effectively 100% loyal to Shepard after joining with the Normandy. You heard her speech towards the end, right? Unless TIM has some kind of backdoor into the Normandy's systems, I doubt she'd willingly give anything up to TIM/Cerberus (that is, assuming you blew off TIM after the suicide mission).

[SharpEdgeSoda]

Mordin trust you, and you trust him. Mordin would never try anything like that without consulting you first.



Why? Because name one time a Partner didn't confront you with a personal dilema.

[SidNitzerglobin]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Regarding EDI: I think she's effectively 100% loyal to Shepard after joining with the Normandy. You heard her speech towards the end, right? Unless TIM has some kind of backdoor into the Normandy's systems, I doubt she'd willingly give anything up to TIM/Cerberus (that is, assuming you blew off TIM after the suicide mission).

I seriously doubt he'd dump the kind of resource into SR2 w/o double failsafe contingencies in place.  

I wholy expect the only reason EDI and Normandy are still functioning after the paragon ending is so TIM can keep tabs on you.

Modifié par SidNitzerglobin, 13 février 2010 - 06:33 .

[joejoe099]

he moded it, and is only one who fully understands the genophage, meaning he is literaly the only person able to work with the data, and mordin cares for life's sparke, he dosnt want genocide, only controlled pop. plus, how can you not trust a great singer?