93 réponses à ce sujet

[The Valiant Knight]

I liked ME2



No more and no less than I liked ME1, both had their issues but both had their virtues.



I think most agree on things like planet scanning and things being dumbed down a little too much but on the story and character side I just can't agree with the thread starter.

We had great characters this time around, sure I didn't like Miranda or...no wait it was just her. However I feel that is more to do with my personal feelings rather than bad writing.

Seriously how could you not love Mordin or Thane? Great diverse characters with interesting histories and opinions. Find me a dull generic shooter that gives you that?

The story did lack a little...but it was good enough to get me excited for ME3. Play it again and think about all the stuff you do. Just like any good second part of a trilogy it's more about leading up to the finale. What did you do with the Genophage data? or the Geth? these decisions and more will lead into the final game and it will be interesting to see how they change everything. The suicide mission was brilliant! even though my whole squad survived (both times) I was scared ****less that someone might die at any moment (yes, both times). Don't even get me started on some of the moral choices and awesome dialouge options!





It might not have twists (I don't think a good story is defined by a twist, that's just poor writing...and I am a writer! lol). What it did have however was interesting revelations about not only the Reapers but also the Genophage, the Geth, the Asari and most importantly the Quarians!



I love Bioware and their RPGs. ME2 is too shooter for me yes...but mainly because it lacks an inventory system. Being able to wear any armour in any colour? LOVE IT hated being forced to wear the white and yellow space suite armour in ME1 just because it was the best I could get. The same goes for weapons, I would have liked more for sure, but was it really that much of a loss?



Party armour...meh I kinda like things to stay consistant, I didn't make my squad use the 'special' armour until the Suicide mission and even changed my Shepards armour to suite the style. That gave me a team feeling, I didn't like having Garrus wearing Pink and White armour in ME1 so much that I kept his basic armour on till I found something that looked...well 'Garrus'



I'm disapointed that such a long term fan was so disapointed in this game. Not sure exactly what you wanted out of this game, but as a long term Bioware and Mass Effect fan I was quite happy with this effort.



Keep it up Bioware!

(but take out planet scanning and add an inventory please )

[Valmy]

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

I read about 3/4 of that wall, then got too annoyed to go on. Can't people whine in a less annoying way?

I liked planet scanning and the whole upgrade/research thing. Sure, planet scanning is pretty boring, but it still gave the game more depth in my opinion. Besides, no one's forcing you to do the scanning. If you hate it so much, just skip the upgrades. Some of your squadmembers will die, but since you consider them to be "badly written" anyways, why would you care?

The thing I loved about planet scanning is you felt it actually had a point, you only did it to get upgrades.  In ME1 you sort of felt compelled by the quest to get minerals, so I liked this better.  You just scanned until the upgrade you were trying to get was ready to go and there were lots of rich planets if you looked around a bit.  So you never had to do it so much you wanted to kill yourself like the MAKO planets and sidequests in ME1.

Of course what I didn't get is what 25,000 units of Platinum had to do with making better guns.  And 25,000 what?  25,000 grams?

[Chained_Creator]

shaneho78 wrote...

Confirmation bias. Obviously prefers ME1. Seeking reasons to justify beliefs. Unacceptable.

This was the most epic post in this thread.

[tsd16]

TheShady wrote...

tsd16 wrote...

- Story wise, its biowares story, and it wasnt that bad and the dialogue was excellent. If you think you could do better than write a book and sell it.

Maviarab wrote...

You a professional writer or game developer?

Didnt think so.....

So basically because I am not a politician I shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Or because I'm no farmer I can't express my dislike of... say... tomatos?

Or because I'm no director I can't criticise a movie?

You can dislike it sure.   But because "you" dislike tomatos does that mean they are bad, or in your opinion the tomato is bad? The OP was acting as if ME2's writing and story sucked period, opinions aside.

And lets both be reasonable here.   Politicians shouldnt even be allowed to be politicians.

[Annora]

I respect your opinions, but I disagree with them. ME1's combat system was horrible, the inventory system was poorly done, and having to focus on one weapon to the exclusion of all else for most classes was just ridiculous.

Everything they added or changed in ME2 was welcome. It's not an RPG, and it's not an FPS. It's a third-person story-driven action shooter.

As for the squadmates being boring, aside from Jacob, I completely disagree with that. They were more dynamic, and better voice acted, than they were in ME1. The whole previous LI thing was handled very well. Of course they would be mad at you, of course they wouldn't know how to handle your sudden reappearance. These people (with the exception of Liara, she has her own reasons) were in love with you, and you died 2 years ago. I don't know if you've ever lost someone close to you, but after 2 years, you feel like you're in a good place to move on. How would you take it if the person you'd been mourning was suddenly alive?

Also, nearly every game's end boss feels somewhat anticlimactic these days. I haven't played a game in the last 5 years where I've felt like the end boss was "OMG EPIC!" BioWare also tends to make villains that are pitiable. Loghain, Saren, Malak, the Collectors, etc.

I'm sorry that this game wasn't your cup of tea, but your personal preferences are not the will of every gamer.

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

Valmy wrote...

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

I read about 3/4 of that wall, then got too annoyed to go on. Can't people whine in a less annoying way?

I liked planet scanning and the whole upgrade/research thing. Sure, planet scanning is pretty boring, but it still gave the game more depth in my opinion. Besides, no one's forcing you to do the scanning. If you hate it so much, just skip the upgrades. Some of your squadmembers will die, but since you consider them to be "badly written" anyways, why would you care?

The thing I loved about planet scanning is you felt it actually had a point, you only did it to get upgrades.  In ME1 you sort of felt compelled by the quest to get minerals, so I liked this better.  You just scanned until the upgrade you were trying to get was ready to go and there were lots of rich planets if you looked around a bit.  So you never had to do it so much you wanted to kill yourself like the MAKO planets and sidequests in ME1.

Of course what I didn't get is what 25,000 units of Platinum had to do with making better guns.  And 25,000 what?  25,000 grams?

I liked the Mako too, but I agree that it got repetitive due to the empty planets. For ME3, I hope they'll give us a mix. Scanning/upgrading, and the occasionaly Mako mission like the first part of Virmire.

And yeah, I wondered the same thing, about that "25000" units question.

[EDarkness]

I've read this thread many times and even discussed it with a few of my friends who have played the game. Some people agree with some things and disagree with others, but it really shows how divided people are about it. People who like it are asking "what are you complaining about?" I agree with pretty much everything the OP wrote. And though I played the game to the end and even enjoy a good bit of the game, I couldn't help but feel like the game had no real soul. It was like they compromised so much from the last game that I wasn't even playing the same game anymore. This game was short, easy (and I didn't even play on the easiest difficulty), and lack any real powerup or things to collect. Nothing to really go after, no way to customize my crew's gear, not even many people to talk to and shops were bone dry most of the time. I hope they really think about this in the next game, because they got my money this time, but I'm gonna be much more cautious next time around. My friends all feel the same way.

[Kristofer1]

Anastassia wrote...

I respect your opinions, but I disagree with them. ME1's combat system was horrible, the inventory system was poorly done, and having to focus on one weapon to the exclusion of all else for most classes was just ridiculous.
Everything they added or changed in ME2 was welcome. It's not an RPG, and it's not an FPS. It's a third-person story-driven action shooter.

Thats the problem The game was to be a rpg with shooting aspects. Not a third person action game. The game is listed as a RPG. the series was to be RPG. people are complaining because Bioware appears to have let the RPG elements in the game die. The first ones inventory wasn't perfect but what RPG has a perfect inventory? They are supposed to be complex and large with lots of options. Especially in regards to weapons. The more choices available the more customization there is to each players unique style and then desired game play.

The game is fun. But it is missing its RPG elements, that so many had hopes for. Those who didnt have the high hopes of this RPG trilogy continuing dont appear to be as unsatisfied with how the game turned out. Those of us (myself included) who expected it to continue its revolutionary RPG style expected just a slightly refined combat element. Not an action element.
I do like the Paragon and Renegade actions during convo. That is a great element added to the RPG portion of the game. But the true squad and character customization is downright shameful. That is what makes a RPG. Creating your vision of the hero.

[HAGA NAGA]

ouch.............

sadly i agree with the bulk of what you've written, it all "hits home" so to speak. i'm not sure i would have taken such a brutal and direct approach, but maybe i'm wrong for that.

i still think they threw out a great game. there are clearly problems with it despite how good it is, and for me (as well as you it sounds) most of those problems are based on it's connection to the previous game.

emails were a weak approach to ME1 connection and sad considering how incredibly awesome the Nasana Dantius connection was. maybe those emails will carry over into ME3 though and play out in a similar fashion to Nasana's side mission.

we'll just have to wait and see. i think it's all salvageable and if done well ME2 won't be as bad as you make it out to be in terms of its cohesiveness.

[HAGA NAGA]

Chained_Creator wrote...

shaneho78 wrote...

Confirmation bias. Obviously prefers ME1. Seeking reasons to justify beliefs. Unacceptable.

This was the most epic post in this thread.

there is nothing "Epic" about that post. man, that word just gets more and more watered down everyday.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Dzikv wrote...

(Warning!! Major whining and spoilers ahead.)

Dear Bioware.

I have played your games since BG1 or even earlier. Always a fan as you hardly ever disappointed me. You make either epic games or "ok" ones. I was waiting for ME 2 for a long time because i am a huge fan of the ME universe. I
preordered the collectors edition a month ahead the launch as i did with DA:O. Was expecting at least the amount of fun that Da:o brought me... How surprised i was when now, after 40 hours of playing the game i have with great effort finished it. Why with great effort you ask? Because ME 2 is not a good game by your (Bioware) standards... It's hardly an OK game.

I don't usually write this kind of threads but as a unsatisfied customer (for the first time in my Bioware gaming history i am unsatisfied) i need to compile a list of things to address the issues i have with the game. I doubt it will actually be read and understood as this game seems to be already selling like the cure for cancer...  So i do it for myself and others like me. To at last tell myself i did something to help one of my favorite game worlds, maybe contribute to saving it from being destroyed in ME3...

I am a frequent visitor to these forums as i was to the previous ME forum. I knew that ME2 was getting dumbed down *cough* I'm sorry... I meant "Streamlined" for a while now. I thought that is a shame but i was happy to continue my Shepards story because that is where you mostly shine as a company... Boy  was i surprised there...

Thats where my main problem with the game lies. The main overarching story is so... From a lack of another adequate word i'll say "stupid" that its painful. Its something so grotesque and unbelievable like it came from a bad B rated 60's sci-fi movie or novel.

I am surprised that the trailer didn't say it out loud like this:

"The evil bugs from a forbidden planet "X" invade to steal our women and turn them into goo to build a super space robot! That looks like a human! And has teeth!".... Seriously?

The end boss itself is something that came from "God of War 5000" not a serious sci-fi universe. Huge metal skeleton of a man as an end boss is not something i would expect from Mass effect franchise...What were you thinking?!

But thats only the last nail to the coffin.... You kill off the main hero just to force him into a new team for some reason. Like you couldn't find another believable reason for Shepard to be where he/she is. Then all he/she does the whole game is build up the frigin team just to be interrupted roughly 2-3 times to follow the main story... Its like the main story is a afterthought here... It resembles DA:O in that aspect more then it does ME1 where the story and Shepard are the main heroes... Not a bunch of (some poorly written i must add) whiny companions... It feels like there is no continuity here... Its fragmented and chaotic. The first ME story was straight (not implying linear) and with a strong purpose to it. Here it feels more like Shepard is joking...

And the main story doesn't hold water anyway...It has no twist to it if you don't count the bad half reaper half human hybrid twist at the end ...

The whole universe suddenly doesn't care for anything. You meet your old companions... BAH! Ashley even calls you a "god" but then suddenly spits all over you for being with Cerberus... Thats a hell of an opinion change in such a short time there isn't it?

Then there is Liara... My Shepards LI that fought for 2 years to get her back... And then Liara completely ignores her and the "mission" she is involved in because of some stupid vendetta i can't  even help her with...Or get any actually info on (except from the damn comic... ) Can you be more off character?

But then there are other people you met in ME1 that appear... And 90% of them send you e-mails... C'mon! Seriously?!

There is so much missing... Did you not have enough time to finish this? Did anyone actually think on the story as a whole before doing ME2? Or did you just cater to the younger generation and their short attention spans?

And for some reason i don't think i actually chose anything in the game. Don't get me wrong... There are choices in the game but nothing with actual consequence to it. I'm not only talking story wise but mostly game-play wise. You don't make a choice. Everything is so easy to achieve and get... Its all one click away...

Not all of the game is so bad thought! There are many moments the game shines story wise... Many characters made me giggle,
smile or be surprised at the writing that bioware did for them. Some characters appear in person and they are mostly great. Even the rachni make an appearance which positively surprised me. So it's not all bad... BUT its not an excuse! Not for people who made ME1 and all the other great games in the past.


Now i listened to the interview and trailers. And i was happy to hear of so many changes to the game. Not all of them sounded like improvements to me but a game needs to change to be better right? And as it goes for combat/ gameplay the game is better then ME1 in many aspects... But the rest are just bad ideas. For example:

- Planet scanning.

When i heard you will take the mako out and replace it with this i thought you figured out the mako was too boring to salvage... I was wrong it seems.

After completing the game i cannot think of a more redundant and boring thing to do then scanning planets in ME2...

Its worse then a asian MMO grind fest - and i played Lineage 2...
I was surprised to find that the MAKO was better! At least you got to actually EXPLORE and sometimes even SHOOT stuff. There is nothing to "discover" by scanning planets. If there is an anomaly then EDI tells you there is... The rest is just resources which after 10 or so fully scanned planets i had enough for ALL the updates!

And you can't even sell the resources! You still can buy most of the upgrades if not all with the money you get from all the sad little side  missions but if i can't sell the resources and i won't find anything useful by scanning the planets then why bother with more then the first 10 rich ones?

And someone please tell me why the hell do i have to work for my money? Shepard is a 2 billion credits worth of a project... I bet Cerberus wouldn't mind giving me a million to spend on upgrades... Its one of those things that doesn't hold water story wise in the game... 

So now that planet scanning is even more boring then MAKO (imho) are you going to remove it too...? >.>

There are many ways to make the scanning more interesting or atleast less strain on the wrist. Some kind of minigame... Or just leave the scanning to EDI... Thats what machines are for right?

And don't get me started on the probes... Why the hell are they limited? What s the reason for this? Time sink? Money sink? It makes scanning even more annoying... Same goes for fuel.

Makes me feel like the people designing ME2 didn't play ME1 at all...

- Equipment.

So you got rid of the whole inventory and weapon system in your quest to make the game better by removing stuff. Great job... Can we get the inventory back now?

I'll start with the weapons... Did you forget that the core aspect of a RPG is gear? From the lame "diablo" or "WoW" aspect of EPIXX to the more leveled out aspect of for example "Fallout 3" (named guns that were better then ordinary... Like the Lincolns own personal rifle) or DA:O gear plays a role in a RPG. Its something not only to strive for its
something that gives you an ability to personalize your character.

Its been talked about allot on these forums so i won't go much further then saying the weapon system of ME2 works- For a shooter and only thought half of the game when you have all the weapons and you're just hunting for + 10% upgrades.  Redundant as the scanning part... Its  "Streamlined" alright... Dumbed down to oblivion...

And of course there is no stats on weapons... But there are no stats in the whole game so it doesn't surprise me. Everything is "intuitive" and "streamlined"...

But it works. Its a good shooter i give them that. Ammo didn't bother me as much as i expected it too. Its still a stupid change.  It would make a game allot better if the collectors didn't drop heat sinks... So many awkward things like that which have no lore explanation could be dodged if you just used the system from ME1....

The armor on the other hand is where you dropped the ball hard. Its been written by many before that the "Forced helmet " issue on the special gear is just.... Well its one of the most stupid decisions i have seen in gaming history. You gave the main character a voice and a face to express emotions... You gave us (a small) but still a possibility to customize our looks... You gave us the "terminator look" for renegades. Then you cover it up with a helmet... What? Are you serious? Who is running your company? Blind people? Nuff said...

An the customization of th BASIC armor is a good step... More parts + more looks /colors + more casual clothes would be better...

The research part is redundant tho. Completely pointless waste of time. It would be better if you had to choose with limited resources... for example : Do i choose the sniper upgrade or health one? 
Right now you have enough of resources to plate an entire ship 100X in the game... Pointless. There is no choice. Just a time sink.

To sum it up. Wearing the epic most advanced armor (Or some legendary heroes armor in a fantasy RPG) gives one a feeling of
power and advancement. Achievement really.In a way it ties you to some places facts and people (Like Zeads rifle for example which he brags about.) Why did you feel thats not needed in ME2 is beyond me...

- Ship upgrades

Ohh yes... Sounded so good on paper.  Again with the unlimited resources its just a one click thing... Doesn't make you feel you achieved something at all. You don't have to choose between one upgrade or another... There is no choice because there is unlimited resources.

It's a waste of a good opportunity for a few good missions. A infiltration mission into the turian military base for the Thorax cannons... Diplomacy talks with the asari for the plating or some kind of proving of your intentions or worth... Or just a simple "Do something or us and we give you the plans for the plating" quest type.
Nahh... Lets just not do that and just give us a 1 click option for all upgrades... Its to complicated do actually do a quest for it...right? WRONG! It would give this game SOOO much more feeling ,illusions of realism and... Choice...

You did it wrong.

An then the whole upgrade is just for the end mission CINEMATIC! What? I thought that upgrading your ship would have more impact then a Cinematic battle... Another opportunity wasted. 

What about meeting pirates in the PIRATE FILLED terminus systems? Or batarians hunting for Shepard having grudges from the war? Makes the universe feel more alive you know... Like in ME1 there was this guy who wanted to nuke Shepard for some Alliance related reason. Shepard made allot of enemies... Please use them next time and don't bring in the huge half human 3 eyed metal skeletons into the universe... Please?

- Enemies

Alright... So we have robots... everywhere.... Why? The official explanation is the death toll on the citadel and lack of security force to fill up the gap. So... Why are they in the terminus systems? Or better yet why are they on the planet where 10 years ago Jacobs father crashed if they were introduced 2 years ago? Doesn't make any sense. 

And why would anyone use machines as defense after the presumed geth "invasion" on the citadel? The sane and logical answer is none would use them because of the amount of hate and mistrust to anything mechanical and walking the recent geth war cosed.

But no... You put in a model for limb loss. And you needed to show it off on something that doesn't bleed... As you downgraded the age rating for the game to kick up the sales. Who cares if it makes no sense in the game lore at all...

Who cares if i shoot a bullet from  my anti-material sniper rifle (widow) at someones head and it stays in place... And remains whole... No... Only machines loose their limbs...

And the whole barrier/armor/health paper/ rock/ scissors thing is absurd... Why does armor work like the shield anyway?! Why do i have to strip down the armor of an enemy completely before killing them? Why not just leave it as it was in ME1?! Its beyond me..

- Skills.

You call this game an RPG. But in the skill department even Bioshock was better.

You cut down the amount of skills and said you introduced a evolution system to them to make them unique and varied.... Thats what was said before the launch.

Now when i had the "pleasure" of seeing it in action i can say its really... really bad. The evolution of skill as you call it is either 1. make the skill stronger on one enemy or 2. make it work on many enemies at once.... Seriously that is your system? Thats the whole evolution you bragged about? This is a joke.

You removed weapon skills and i applaud to that. Shepard is a skilled soldier and doesn't need to learn how to shoot. But following this logic why are there ammo skills?

You also removed the technicians skills like dampening and electronics and give for example for the infiltrator a skill called "incarnate"... Whats incarnate suppose to be?! Some kind of spell they cast? Why is it unlimited? And most of all why the hell would an infiltrator have such a skill in the first place?! Why not leave it the way it was... Dampening and electronics had a point for a infiltrator.... A logical use in game lore and in game play itself... Now you put in "spells" like from a fantasy game? C'mon Bioware!

Wake up!

Same with hacking... Why ohh why did you make everyone able to hack? Having engineers be the only ones with the ability gave the first game a bit of tactical team choice depth... How little it was it was there... and you removed it.

Now if i don't play on insanity i can take whoever i want on a mission. Thats only because for some reason biotic don't work on shielded enemies....

So to sum it up. The whole skill system doesn't leave much to experiment in a second playthrough... Especially when you can reach the MAXIMUM LEVEL ON THE FIRST TRY! Every setup is a cookie cutter setup (at least for an infiltrator... but i bet its the same with soldier and other classes) Wheres my reasons to play NG+? To follow the same absurd and grotesque linear story? To "explore"? You can get most of the achievements on the first playthrough too... 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok i'm going to finish this. Its a rant i know... Its incoherent in many places and might make little sense to anyone but me and some of my friends that are also disappointed in this game.
I just want to say that this is no a BAD game. Its playable. In many aspects its better then ME1... But Bioware should do better. To leave so many gaps, to make so may pointless changes an to push such a grotesque and plain silly story into the mass effect franchise with a straight face... Thats more of EA then Bioware i know in there...

There is so much great new stuff. The dialog braking, Legion, insight on the Quarians, Asari and Turians. Amazing dialogs at a few points, a few good quests. the extremely fun combat compared to ME1. These all make ME2 a ok game...


It could be Epic though... To bad it isn't...

Well said. ME2 was Rainbow Six Las Vegas with chat dialogues and some quasi-rpg stuff.

Modifié par Dr. Peter Venkman, 17 février 2010 - 02:13 .

[Dzikv]

I want to add 1 more gripe... DLC.

I won't lie... I bough every DLC for DA:O. Why? Because it actually adds something to the depth of this wonderfull game... Some insight to the story...

Now ME2 DLC? Ugh... The story is so bad in ME2 that the dlc won't fix that. The hammer head might be fun but i'm not into RPGs for some shooting with a tank! And thats all there is... New weapons armor and a Tank that you can use ONLY in the DLC missions...

And the new one with the extra companion... It might be as epic as Shale in Da:o... But with the current story of ME2 it won't make much differnce... I've never played ME2 a second time (NG+)... And i won't do it for another boring companion (Ninja assasin style one i might add..) .

To compere.. I did play Da:o 5 times now... And with the expansion comming i'll do it again probably...

Modifié par Dzikv, 15 mars 2010 - 08:06 .

[Highdragonslayer]

You said Diablo was lame and that makes your entire post stupid, think about what you've done and maybe I'll forgive you.

Also it's incenerate not incarnate, and incenerate is a tech ability which infiltrator's use in both ME1 and ME2.

Modifié par Highdragonslayer, 15 mars 2010 - 08:17 .

[Annjul666]

Did anybody realize that ME2 is not a true RPG ? helloooo?! then why the **** people compare it to real rpgs... i dont understand.



agree that dlc suck. we only get some new party members who cant talk. really interesting.. =.= i can finish the game easily without them, wondering still why BW give us such .... additions. to earn money?

[Kristofer1]

yes it is not a true rpg. but me1 was more of a rpg than me2. on every single level. me2 is an action adventure game with guns. and some star wars type powers.

[Tankkiller1337]

OP has a point. If someone is denying that you are obviously biased.

Modifié par Tankkiller1337, 15 mars 2010 - 09:43 .

[Highdragonslayer]

Maviarab wrote...

Is it not incinerate rather than incenerate lol....your as bad as the fool your trying to sound smart with

lol my bad and btw