136 réponses à ce sujet

[Creature 1]

I've seen people say that and heard he's supposed to be based off of Xander, but I don't see it. Besides the constant falling in love.

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

As to Morrigan, my guess is that most male players distaste for Morrigan isn't her being frank, it's her personality. Same as with Jack and Ashley, to take two other biomances in consideration. This "men are afraid of strong women" rhetoric makes me tired.

Maybe the idea persists because we have so often found it to be true?

Not that I've seen. What's more rare amongst the men I know is one who hasn't chosen a strong woman. Of course, that may say more about the kind of people I call friends than the general population, but I don't actually think so.

[SurelyForth]

Creature 1 wrote...

I've seen people say that and heard he's supposed to be based off of Xander, but I don't see it. Besides the constant falling in love.

He only falls in love with one person! 

I haven't romanced Morrigan, but I have to admit that I sort of hate the way she invites the PC to her tent, it sounds so false if you've only played female PC's. 

Modifié par SurelyForth, 14 février 2010 - 02:08 .

[Maria Caliban]

Creature 1 wrote...

I've seen people say that and heard he's supposed to be based off of Xander, but I don't see it. Besides the constant falling in love.

Alistair = XanderMal. Xander from Buffy and Malcolm from Firefly. He was also originally a 34-year-old veteran Warden. If you look at his concept art, you’ll notice that he looks much older.

The character changed over time.

[Herr Uhl]

I rather liked his very manly concept, but alas. It would be weird if you took charge of a veteran GW.

[Maria Caliban]

Helios969 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I don't think it's the 'speaks her mind' that bothers most of the guys, I think it's her distaste for doing anything that's even remotely nice. Alistair kind of sums it up with the 'She's mean, and eviiiil....'

Yes, she is.  And I love that about her.  Tenderness is all fine and good, but if you're looking for a good roll in the hay, I'm going with the "dirty girl."  And sassy girls are the best.

I have trouble believing that Morrigan, the asocial swamp witch, is better in the hay than a woman who's worked in a brothel.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 14 février 2010 - 02:11 .

[maxernst]

It depends on what you mean by strong, too. I don't consider being rude and socially inept strength--her frankness stems from the fact that growing up alone with Flemeth, she never learned any manners. Consider how Wynne and Morrigan react to the Warden's relationship with Alistair. Both have essentially the same reservations about it, but where Wynne talks to the Warden privately, Morrigan picks at Alistair publicly. Both could be viewed as strong and opinionated (or both as being meddlesome busybodies), but Morrigan is also clearly being breathtakingly rude.

[highcastle]

@maxernst: I don't think Morrigan is trying to be rude, I think it's a product of the way she was raised. As you said, she was raised by Flemeth. But it wasn't just having no manners, it was having no social interaction. There are psychology studies out there that demonstrate the kind of effects that degree of isolation has on the mind (it's not pretty). That Morrigan functions as well as she does is a testimony to her strength.

I say this as a woman and as someone who's never romanced Morrigan even with my male PCs, I think the character's a lot deeper than most give her credit for. I see her as someone raised by a woman with a very skewed world view, and while she wants to cling to those views, she sees them challenged at times. She may be practical and cynical to the extreme, but she also realizes there's something different about her and it puzzles her. People puzzle her, to an extent. I don't think much of what she does is out of pure malice, as much as it is out of misunderstanding and perhaps protection (alienating others first so they won't hurt you later). But she's a very cryptic character, open to interpretation.

[DalishRanger]

highcastle wrote...
I say this as a woman and as someone who's never romanced Morrigan even with my male PCs, I think the character's a lot deeper than most give her credit for. I see her as someone raised by a woman with a very skewed world view, and while she wants to cling to those views, she sees them challenged at times. She may be practical and cynical to the extreme, but she also realizes there's something different about her and it puzzles her. People puzzle her, to an extent. I don't think much of what she does is out of pure malice, as much as it is out of misunderstanding and perhaps protection (alienating others first so they won't hurt you later). But she's a very cryptic character, open to interpretation.

As someone who has romanced her only once, and played as a friend to her in other playthroughs, both as a male and a female, I have to say I pretty much agree with this assessment.

Maria Caliban wrote...

Helios969 wrote...
Yes, she is. And I love that about her.  Tenderness is all fine and good, but if you're looking for a good roll in the hay, I'm going with the "dirty girl."  And sassy girls are the best.

I have trouble believing that Morrigan, the asocial swamp witch, is better in the hay than a woman who's worked in a brothel.

:lol: I'm with Maria on this one.

Modifié par DalishRanger, 14 février 2010 - 02:44 .

[Helios969]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I don't think it's the 'speaks her mind' that bothers most of the guys, I think it's her distaste for doing anything that's even remotely nice. Alistair kind of sums it up with the 'She's mean, and eviiiil....'

Yes, she is.  And I love that about her.  Tenderness is all fine and good, but if you're looking for a good roll in the hay, I'm going with the "dirty girl."  And sassy girls are the best.

I have trouble believing that Morrigan, the asocial swamp witch, is better in the hay than a woman who's worked in a brothel.

It's all a matter of tastes, my dear.  And for me, Morrigan has more sex appeal by far.  And no matter how skilled a person is in the art of lovemaking, if you find that person unattractive, they'll never have the opportunity to try them out.

[Maria Caliban]

I think I was misread you then. Sorry about that.

[maxernst]

highcastle wrote...

@maxernst: I don't think Morrigan is trying to be rude, I think it's a product of the way she was raised. As you said, she was raised by Flemeth. But it wasn't just having no manners, it was having no social interaction. There are psychology studies out there that demonstrate the kind of effects that degree of isolation has on the mind (it's not pretty). That Morrigan functions as well as she does is a testimony to her strength.
I say this as a woman and as someone who's never romanced Morrigan even with my male PCs, I think the character's a lot deeper than most give her credit for. I see her as someone raised by a woman with a very skewed world view, and while she wants to cling to those views, she sees them challenged at times. She may be practical and cynical to the extreme, but she also realizes there's something different about her and it puzzles her. People puzzle her, to an extent. I don't think much of what she does is out of pure malice, as much as it is out of misunderstanding and perhaps protection (alienating others first so they won't hurt you later). But she's a very cryptic character, open to interpretation.

I don't disagree with your assessment.  My point was that she speaks her mind because she doesn't know any better, not because of any particular strength of character. I was responding to the idea that people don't like her because she's a strong woman.

[Helios969]

Creature 1 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...
While Alistair is for the most part a flat character in terms of writing, he at least has some originality to his personality.

He does??  He's like half of the preppy jocks from high school. 

Hmmm.  I played football and baseball, and can't recall any of them being whiny and self deprecating.  Self-riteous and egotistical, but not those.  Although maybe you mean physically?  Alistair definitely has that All-American Quarterback look about him.

[Quill74Pen]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I don't think it's the 'speaks her mind' that bothers most of the guys, I think it's her distaste for doing anything that's even remotely nice. Alistair kind of sums it up with the 'She's mean, and eviiiil....'

Yes, she is.  And I love that about her.  Tenderness is all fine and good, but if you're looking for a good roll in the hay, I'm going with the "dirty girl."  And sassy girls are the best.

I have trouble believing that Morrigan, the asocial swamp witch, is better in the hay than a woman who's worked in a brothel.

Isn't there a dialogue option with Morrigan where she talks about bedding some Chasind males? Not that it'd give her more experience than Leliana when it comes to sex, but it'd still give the swamp witch *some* experience. **LOL**

Quill74Pen

[DalishRanger]

Quill74Pen wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I don't think it's the 'speaks her mind' that bothers most of the guys, I think it's her distaste for doing anything that's even remotely nice. Alistair kind of sums it up with the 'She's mean, and eviiiil....'

Yes, she is.  And I love that about her.  Tenderness is all fine and good, but if you're looking for a good roll in the hay, I'm going with the "dirty girl."  And sassy girls are the best.

I have trouble believing that Morrigan, the asocial swamp witch, is better in the hay than a woman who's worked in a brothel.

Isn't there a dialogue option with Morrigan where she talks about bedding some Chasind males? Not that it'd give her more experience than Leliana when it comes to sex, but it'd still give the swamp witch *some* experience. **LOL**

Quill74Pen

Yes, on at least a few different occasions Morrigan mentions bedding men to get what she wants from them/maniuplate. There's no real details on exactly how "experienced" she is, but I'd wager it's enough encounters for her to feel comfortable using it as an acceptable manipulating tactic.

[SusanStoHelit]

Quill74Pen wrote...

Isn't there a dialogue option with Morrigan where she talks about bedding some Chasind males? Not that it'd give her more experience than Leliana when it comes to sex, but it'd still give the swamp witch *some* experience. **LOL**
Quill74Pen

Very early on, usually in Lothering in my experience, Leliana and Morrigan talk about how their mothers told them stories when they were small children. Morrigan's mother told her about the wild Chasind men she took to her bed and used until they were spent. And that she'd be expected to do the same, when she came of age.

Given that Morrigan is around 30-something and long since came of age - she's probably drained a few Chasind men herself.

[Chas1024]

If you become Morrigan's friend you get this:

"I have been with men physically, those who lusted after me and even professed love... but friendship with a man? I did not know 'twas even possible."

So, yes, she does have some sexual experience.

[Maria Caliban]

Quill74Pen wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I have trouble believing that Morrigan, the asocial swamp witch, is better in the hay than a woman who's worked in a brothel.

Isn't there a dialogue option with Morrigan where she talks about bedding some Chasind males? Not that it'd give her more experience than Leliana when it comes to sex, but it'd still give the swamp witch *some* experience. **LOL**

Quill74Pen

Yes, Morrigan has had sexual experiences. I'm not sure why you'd think otherwise.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 15 février 2010 - 04:53 .

[Quill74Pen]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I knew she wasn't a virgin, but simply couldn't precisely recall *where* in the game the subject was brought up.

[Addai]

Interesting tidbit from the Morrigan romance... about the Wardens' supposedly fabled longevity in the sack due to (it is speculated) the taint as well as their physical condition. Ha! This sheds light for the Alistair fangirls. Zevran teases him about a lack of precisely this, but Alistair and Zevran have a jealousy thing going from day one and I think Z. is just being bad.

As for Morrigan vs. Leliana and experience... At Wonders of Thedas, Morrigan will comment on a Chasind fertility statue. Sounds like there was a lot of action out there in the wilds. Also- though this may not exactly be what the male Warden wants to be thinking about at tender moments- Morrigan was trained by a woman who's been seducing men for centuries. I think I'm gonna go with the swamp witch on this one.

Modifié par Addai67, 15 février 2010 - 03:54 .

[Alandros]

I personally found the Morrigan romance quite interesting, a character who eventually is in so much conflict with herself, it was very well done. She's also quite a bit more vulnerable than the others in regards to love. She's easy going with sex but when it comes to her true feelings she is very insecure and can be hurt fairly easily. There's also a lot of little surprising responses from her at certain times where how she was raised betrays her thoughts, such as this possible conversation line:



PC: "We've never talked about our nights together."

PC: "I just want to know where this is going."



Morrigan: An odd question, is it not? What do you forsee? Marriage? Children? Shall we settle in the countryside, you paint the shed while I bake the bread?"



PC: "Do you really think I want those things?"



Morrigan: "Do you have something else in mind? You are the one who asked the question, as if there were somewhere for us to go?"



PC: "If you don't want any of those things, then fine."



Morrigan: "I did not say that precisely! I ... no nevermind." (then leads into a shared conclusion)





There's a lot of interesting depth to the Morrigan character and the possibly romance dialogues.

[stobie]

Being female, I started with a female elf. I'm certainly more emotionally involved with this one. That's the romance that interests me. But I hated the ending, so I made a human male warrior & a male city elf rogue. (the female ending was either tragic, sad, or depressing - or just, 'yay, we survived - can't wait to meet the baby you had with someone else.') I didn't care much for the guy romances, though I thought my warrior would find Morrigan funny & smart. (I really thought the human would like Shianni - she seems sane & more heroic, but - oh well.) I found it weird that my guy had a tender 'last scene,' and has a baby (ok, horned demon baby, probably) with his lover, and my girl has to watch her lover head off with the cute witch for a wild night. Didn't like that at ALL.

[Hyper Cutter]

stobie wrote...
 I found it weird that my guy had a tender 'last scene,' and has a baby (ok, horned demon baby, probably) with his lover, and my girl has to watch her lover head off with the cute witch for a wild night. Didn't like that at ALL.

That part can't really be helped...

[CalJones]

If you want the happy romance endings you have to go with Leli or Zev. At least it's possible to have some sort of happiness with Alistair if he does the ritual. Morrigan just plain dumps you and leaves.

[sylvanaerie]

Of the two genders I have played both and enjoyed each for different reasons. I prefer female story to male (for one I AM female and it feels more comfortable for me to play one). Plus up to now I haven't been able to enjoy many RPGs where you can get a choice of female or male hero.

The story is slightly different. Some NPCs you can flirt with some you cannot on the other gender. I'm a huge Bann Teagan fan and I always flirt with him in the Redcliffe chantry. The biggest difference is how limited the male romances seem to me. With the female romancing Alistair, you get the cute comments from everyone in your group about your shenanigans (my favorite being Wynne's birds and the bees talk with Alistair). Plus you can kiss Alistair in group anytime you want and usually someone will make a cute comment about it. For the guy (at least the Leliana romance, I find Morrigan unappealing as a romance but just fine as a friend) it just fell flat for me. No smoochies outside camp, no running commentary (except one conversation from Al about Lel and my PC ogling one another). Plus the whole eyelashes in a jar thing...ummm yea...creepy.

However, playing a guy I finally felt comfortable playing a warrior, one reason being he DOES look buffer and stronger than the girl model. Plus with a guy you don't run the risk of Al getting the killing blow on the dragon and sparing his love. So I was able to do the sacrifice ending and warden commander ending as well on a second run of the final battle.

Plus, I made my guy look a little like a younger version of Bann Teagan *Facepalms* yea I know I need help...but he was absolutely gorgeous and was a lot of fun looking at while I played.

I did find the kiss in the Redcliffe tavern from Bella to be the HOTTEST one in the game, esp with the yokels looking on. So I guess the guys get the best kiss in the game but still it didn't make up for what male PCs miss out on.  (and ya I know you get one from Al if you romance him and let him take the blow on the AD but that ending would just kill the game for me so I have never played it out though I have seen it on UTube).

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 17 février 2010 - 10:15 .