145 réponses à ce sujet

[SpaceOden]

Rubber_Ducky wrote...

It's like I say, if Bioware didn't plan on giving equal treatment to the console versions, they shouldn't have ported it. I would've been happier having not played this game at all than getting a sub-par port.

Yes, but EA is happier having your money.

Seriously, you have my sympathy -- I did the same thing with Assassin's Creed for the PC (not even a masochist could forgive the brutal ineptitude of that control scheme). I know telling you "too bad" isn't much help, but really all you can take from this is the lesson that you must always look up "[game] pc vs xbox360"

Modifié par SpaceOden, 21 février 2010 - 09:47 .

[supersims796]

[quote]mrfoo1 wrote...

[quote]switzki wrote...
On the contrary, the packaging on my copy of DA:O clearly states "For use only with Xbox 360 entertainment systems."[/quote]
And when I purchased Borderlands it said for PC only. Doesn't remove the fact that it was a port and suffered from poor support, borken systems and issues. Just because a box say's for X doesn't have anything to do with how or what support that product will recieve. I just means that if you put it in a PS3 or in a PC you just blew money being a moron. It would be the same if I took my PC version of Borderlands and stuck it in my Xbox. Bye bye money.[/quote]

No, it is not the same simply because it says "For PC only", or "For 360 only". That means, port or not, this particular game was made specifically for the 360 system. Whether or not you feel it inferior does not change the fact that it is still a faulty product that does not deliver the way it is suposed too.


[quote]The bottom line is that you can't change Bioware/EA's product being ported by a secondary company that then releases that content over a third and fourth company respectively, by inundating the forums with threads like this.

Just because as a consumer you or others didn't do any consumer reaserch into the product you are purchasing does not mean any of the above arguments; as fallacious as they are, and as valid and reasonable as you many see them in your head, are even close to being factual or representaive of the truth.[/quote]

First off, who said they didn't do the research? That is not the issue. As nazgul1z has said, money was paid for a product to work with expectations. If it is faulty, and no help is being given, we have every right to be outraged.

[quote]nazgul1x wrote...
I guess what you're saying is that anyone who didn't do their homework and trusted Bioware to deliver a console
game, (since it was released, you know, on a console)  with their usual console game standards was foolish to do so. Interesting...............................
[/quote]
If Bioware was the company who released the product and did the translation (See:Ladydesire's post above) required to port it over to XBox and PS3 you would have a valid argument. The same way if it was Bioware releasing the patch's over an owned EA release capacity. But sadly Bioware didn't and aren't. Try again.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, Bioware's name is still on the label. They are the developers of this game. I will of course go to them with answers to what is wrong. EA may have patched it, but Bio is still the main head. Profits go to them as well, and I will go to them for answers.

Honestly, almost all of what you said is invalid. Really, if you have nothing at all costructive to say, leave this thread. Trying to come here saying "ha ha, that is what you console gamers get for having consoles and not PC's" doesn't make you look any better. Good that you've spent your life getting a shiny new PC. Great for you. If that makes you feel good, then I'm happy for you. That does not mean I do not deserve answers as to why my product is faulty, and why nothing is being done about it.

[OnyxPrimal]

^^^^

I agree with the above Statement. We paid for it, we deserve it working.

[Drayvenn]

mrfoo1 wrote...

You paid to have a program that runs. Guess what DA:O does on the XBox. Is it at your standards no, that is more then clear, but that still doesn't change the fact that every ounce of obligation required for any company that releases any software program has already been met.

If you feel that Bioware/EA have meet their obligation to the customer as far as a working game is concerned then what would constitute a game that DOES NOT meet their obligation?

[Taiko Roshi]

Look its simple, on my CE box it clearly says "Contains the full version of DA:O". If I can not access the second hud of my poison radial menu I DO NOT have the "full version" of the game that is clearly marked on the box. If I can not use the full version of a class because of a bug then I DO NOT have the "full version" of the game. Ergo, EA/BW are at fault because they clearly stated that my CE "contains the full version of DA:O", which due to a number of bugs, I DO NOT have.

[supersims796]

mrfoo1 wrote...

supersims796 wrote...
No, it is not the same simply because it says "For PC only", or "For 360 only". That means, port or not, this particular game was made specifically for the 360 system. Whether or not you feel it inferior does not change the fact that it is still a faulty product that does not deliver the way it is suposed too.

And all that sticker means is that disk has the proper translations
required to read whatever an XBox needs in order to read the disk.
Having a sticker that say's "For XBox only" is akin to having a sticker
that would read "For the hearing impared."

No. That means I should be able to play the product at it's full. I expect it to be different because it's a translations. For example, the graphics are inferior. The gameplay is simplified. The controls would be radically different. This is to be expected. However, the game freezing, breaking down, or glitching is not to be expected. It is not part of the game, and should be immediately addressed. What you say does not apply to technical issues. If it says, "for hearing impaired". then the hearing impaired should be ablle to use it in a way that helps them. If the game is bugged, that does not mean they are unable to get it fixed.

No you aren't. You paid to have a program that runs. Guess what DA:O does on the XBox. Is it at your standards no, that is more then clear, but that still doesn't change the fact that every ounce of obligation required for any company that releases any software program has already been met.

Actually, I am to have a program that runs PROPERLY. If I cannot use part of the program, then no, standards have not been met. If the product that have been given cannot work, then I should definatley expect help on the matter.

No, it's that im not pandering to your sense of entitlement outright. You want to be mad because you can't afford to play on a decent gaming rig, be mad. You want to be mad because you bought into the hype of the PS3 and XBox 360 being just like a computer, have fun. But do not subject your own insecurities, fears, and frustrations towards what others are saying.

You can not demand a simple solution or answer, when the issue at hand is not a simple issue.

This is what I mean. Get the hell over yourself. Take your system wars, PC fanboyism, unwarrented elitism elsewhere. I do not feel as if I have the inferior system. Nothing I have wrote had even sugested that. You, however, seem to think that you are entitled to more simply because you have a PC. Good for you. The only one who seems to be insecure here is you. If you feel this thread is so invalid, by all means, leave it. The fact that you are still here, trying to pander your "PC is superior" views on a thread that has nothing to do with PC is pathetic. Hell, the fact that you are on this part of the forum is pathetic. Why are you here? The PC help forum is elsewhere.

I am entiteld to get help with whatever issue that I may have with the product I have. That is a fact.

OnyxPrimal wrote...

^^^^
I agree with the above Statement. We paid for it, we deserve it working.

Not when the ideological assumptions that you support and that this thread has, are allowed to be held.

This is what I mean. This thread has every right to be here; you saying it is unwarrented is not changing that, just as you saying us demanding answers is unwarrented. This thread has less than nothing to do with you. If you feel this thread does not need to be, be a big boy and leave it.

[Zeleen]

Am I missing something? My rogue seems to be just fine. I use cunning for damage.

[supersims796]

mrfoo1 wrote...
You
can and do have the full product and are able to play the game at it's
fullest. Everyone has the bugs, and glitchs, and issues. The same ones
you have. The difference is, specifically for PC, that they just show
up less because of the tech differences between the PC and a console
like XBox or PS3. They are going to be there regardless of if DA:O was
a port or not. And the fact that it is a port only garuntees the
likelyhood of more issues.

At no point in time does an XBox, PS3, or PC
sticker mean anything other then the appropriated disc is for that
platform and capable of playing on it.

No, I am unable to play the game at it's fullest because of the bugs. Yes, everyone has the same problem. That in itself is not the issue. The problem here is that no help is being issued. THAT is the problem at hand. Stating that it is a port does not change the fact that money was paid for a product to perform at it's fullest, which in this case, it is not. The fact that the game shuts off automatically, periodically, is only one of the reasons it is not.

Actually, I am to have a program that
runs PROPERLY. If I cannot use part of the program, then no, standards
have not been met. If the product that have been given cannot work,
then I should definatley expect help on the matter.

See
above. When you sit and play the game, regardless of how far you go
because of issues, are not relevant to having or not having a working
game that works PROPERLY. You can not subject properly to a personal
formed bias towards a personal formed expectation. Games are released
knowing there will be bugs. DA:O for release would have gone through at
minimum to forms of certification. One from Bioware themselves to where
they found all the bugs glitchs issues they could and the second from
MS doing the exact same thing. It's why when something gets delayed in
certification it has to be recertified. As in it does not pass go, does
not collect 200 dollards, and does go directly to jail. And even going through the minimum two checks bugs happen.

IDUSTRY STANDARDS ARE GREATER THEN YOU. I caps locked that so you would understand 100% without a doubt what I am saying. Game companies will not spend the hundreds of million's of dollars it takes to design a game, to then delay it and spend even more because you think or expect something that by all means in the consumer sense is absolutly unfair to those companies.

And that is not the point. If I wanted, (and apparently, it has been done) I could get a refund in full for this game NOT living up to expected standards. Industry standards are above me, indeed. However, I can still be expected to have a fully funtioning game, which at times, this is not. Gameplay issues aside. At times, the issues in this game render it utterly unplayable AND unfunctional (such as the occasional, all out crashes, that happens pretty often). On quite a few occasions. Industry may have it's standards,

Unfair? Now is where you lose me. Fact is, many of the bugs, as I have stated before, render the game unplayable. If I bought a Windows program, only for it to crash, or not have a few applications working, then I have full rights to a refund.

So where in the game is the design faulty? Do you even know
what faulty design is? You play a game where commands that are imputed
are not read correctly or are read as not being accessable due to a
possible "unknown command" issue. None of that is faulty design. And
notice how I'm not saying Bioware can't fix the issues. Notice how I am
saying that it has to go through multiple sources before you would ever
see it where it could be delayed. You can't straw man an argument that
Bioware should be able to have a fix released when those fix's still
need to go through a certification period from MS, hell even EoR. They
need to know that the fix's will actually work before they can let you
have them.

And I won't even dignify the implied, and I can only hope it's implied, sense that you think Bioware would be even remotly capable of staying fiscally afloat without being a subsidiary at minimum to a higher ranking company like EA. I will however give you some information. In 2 words. Blizzard Activision.

Actually, bugs are at nature a result of faulty design. It happens. No amount of work will result in a perfect game. That is not the issue. And I am not saying that theyshould not have been here. I am saying, however, that nothing is being activley done, as said by a dev. Wether they must go through multiple sources or no, No word is being given to the consumer. And that is the biggest issue.

Stop
bringing up that your some down trodden console user like it's a valid
point of argument and people won't. Why should I have to tell you to
not project your bias opinion because of what I prefer to game on? You are
the one who keeps bringing that argument up as if it holds or has some
form of validity. The strawman does not agree.

You are entitled to get help absolutly. At no point in time have I said you aren't. I have only said that when playing a port your playing an inferior product. Regardless of what platform you play on. And that it takes time for those issues to be addressed.

Really? I can bring up MULTIPLE examples of where you are trying to say that console users 'deserve less help than PC users. Iam not using my console as an example, YOU are. You are saying that because I am using an inferior system, in very insulting ways (and I can quote those times), that consolers deserve less help. The fact is, you having troubles with the PC has nothing to do WITH THE TOPIC AT HAND. Hell, If I may quote, you have outright said my opinion holds no water because I do not go through what PC'ers go through. You stated that I must feel bad and inadequate because I am using a console. You have bought up the issue, and cannot try to back out of it. If you need an example;

No, it's that im not pandering to your sense of entitlement outright. You want to be mad because you can't afford to play on a decent gaming rig, be mad. You want to be mad because you bought into the hype of the PS3 and XBox 360 being just like a computer, have fun. But do not subject your own insecurities, fears, and frustrations towards what others are saying.

You can not demand a simple solution or answer, when the issue at hand is not a simple issue.

No, I'm saying this thread is full of entitlement
based solely on poor misconceptions that do nothing for getting the
issues on the XBox fixed. You will notice that what I said in exact wording was: Not when people are allowed to think what they want, be as wrong as they are, as misinformed as they may be, are allowed to hold those ideas. I'm sorry if you don't like my opinion that if you can't act like a mature and reasonable person you don't deserve something.

Unfortunatley for you, your OPINION does nothing to futher the thread. The fact is, and as you repeated for me, just because you feel this thread is not what it should be, gives you no reason to come here and try to put down others. I'm sorry if our opinion is not what you like,but you can't act like an arrogant brat when people don't hold the same ideas.


Nobody is deamanding a quick fix. We, however, are demanding an answer as to why nothing has been mentioned. One Dev came and said they weren't even looking at a fix at the time. This has people understandably angry. If you cannot see why, then that's on you.

Modifié par supersims796, 22 février 2010 - 09:19 .

[Darkkyn46]

I can't believe there are people in this thread saying nothing but "shoulda bought the PC version" and in the next breath questioning someone else's intelligence. I play on a 360 and the experience is fine for me, but I'm not really that hard to please. However, when you pay for something you have the right to expect a certain level of quality and service. That expectation is not being met. It doesn't matter whether the game was designed for consoles or not, the fact is that it was SOLD for consoles. This isn't a PC vs Consoles argument, it's a customer service problem. There are snobs on both sides of this that frankly both sound ridiculous when attacking each other. Whether this is BioWare's fault or EA's fault, is really moot. From the bug list and the complaints made most often, one or both of them are dropping the ball.

[Taiko Roshi]

Zeleen wrote...

Am I missing something? My rogue seems to be just fine. I use cunning for damage.

Yes you are. You do not have the full version of the rogue class due to the dex bug. Using cunning is a work around which limits what options you have with the class and does not allow you to play the full version.

[supersims796]

Darkkyn46 wrote...

I can't believe there are people in this thread saying nothing but "shoulda bought the PC version" and in the next breath questioning someone else's intelligence. I play on a 360 and the experience is fine for me, but I'm not really that hard to please. However, when you pay for something you have the right to expect a certain level of quality and service. That expectation is not being met. It doesn't matter whether the game was designed for consoles or not, the fact is that it was SOLD for consoles. This isn't a PC vs Consoles argument, it's a customer service problem. There are snobs on both sides of this that frankly both sound ridiculous when attacking each other. Whether this is BioWare's fault or EA's fault, is really moot. From the bug list and the complaints made most often, one or both of them are dropping the ball.

Thank you. I do not care if the PC has it's share of problems.. Or whether or not it's getting fixed. I do care, however, that the isue is at hand, not being addresed, and we are in the dark about it.

Incidentally, the bugs does not hamper my experience too much, lest. However, some bugs are just plain game killers.


And the biggest issue here is that the customer service sucks, hence "Consoles getting the shaft".

[Bloodhowl5429]

I agree with OP. I also agree with anyone that says this was a usless post =)

[Drayvenn]

mrfoo1 wrote...

It's not a matter of what I constitute or what you or anyone else would constitute, derive, prefer, hope for, allow, proactively ensure, accept, allow or otherwise want or need for Bioware to meet it's "obligation" to the consumer base. It's the standard set by the industry. Like every other game in the gaming industry.

I believe this may lie at the heart of the argument. 
Please correct me if I am wrong but you feel that Bioware has met and/or exceeded the standard set by the industry, which I whole heartily agree with, and thus Bioware has met it's obligation to the consumer.
My point of view is that although Bioware may have met or exceeded the Industry Standard their obligation is completely independant of it. 
Industry Standard is merely the average of its products and does not necessarily reflect quality.
Imagine an industry made of a product called "Gizmos".  Most people produce subpar Gizmos and thus the Industry Standard is extremely low.  You pay Gizmoware for their new Dragon Gizmo.  Everything works great on the Dragon Gizmo except the Doohicky is faulty on them.
Since Industry Standards are so low and few Gizmos work at all Gizmoware clearly met the Standard but not their obligation to the customer.

[valdermos]

@mrfoo 1

It’s a basic consumer right to voice complaints towards a supplier if your unhappy with their product or the lack of customer support, also I’m confused as to why your here, you’ve already made it plain that you’re a pc fanboy so why are you on a console forum. I’ve read your same self-centred head up your own arse post’s on the ps3 forum, what’s the matter will no-one on the pc forum talk to you so you have to console bash and hope that you’ll get some attention. Here’s a bit of free advice GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Wicked 702]

@mrfoo1

I take comfort in the fact that my Xbox version of Borderlands works like a charm. It's a fantastic game on such an "inferior" device. Sucks for you I guess....

By the way, just thinking about living in your world where a imperfect product is considered acceptable simply because it meets "industry standards" is revolting. Demanding perfection as a consumer is actually not an unreasonable requirement.

[Wicked 702]

I feel that your argument is flawed considering the very nature of what you are trying to argue, "industry standards". If it is the standard in the video game industry to release products with bugs, then how is it that a Japanese company like Square Enix is able to consistently release products without a single bug or issue? I have been playing Squaresoft games for over 15 years and I have yet to see the programming quality of their games decline. Other aspects perhaps....but not the coding. Even FFXII played flawlessly. And I have NO DOUBT that FFXIII will be bug free.

They are in the industry. And their games cost the same. Do they simply have a different standard?

They are the proof that perfection is plausible.

Modifié par Wicked 702, 23 février 2010 - 03:01 .

[supersims796]

[quote]mrfoo1 wrote...

[quote]supersims796 wrote...
No, I am unable to play the game at it's fullest because of the bugs. Yes, everyone has the same problem. That in itself is not the issue. The problem here is that no help is being issued. THAT is the problem at hand. Stating that it is a port does not change the fact that money was paid for a product to perform at it's fullest, which in this case, it is not. The fact that the game shuts off automatically, periodically, is only one of the reasons it is not.[/quote]

Define shuts off. Shuts off as in freezes and black screens or shuts of as in your XBox turns off? (note:It's a rhetorical question) To which neither is an issue that can be resolved by Bioware directly. At least to any implimentation that wouldn't take time to address. (And by time I mean a few months or more) [quote]

Shame, cause I could have answered it too. But as said before, it not being a quick fix is not the prob, it is no word being said as to why these problems aren't even acknowledged.

[quote]When a program crash's very rarely is it due to a coding issue for the program. Rarely. The majority of the time it is due to, and even on console's, a hardware issue. So I guess the relevant thing to ask would be which version of the 360 do you have to play on? The issue is the emboldened portion of your above quote. At times does not define not being functional. And sadly you can't have the fully functional game you desire when the version of the game you are playing is a port.[/quote]



[quote]It's unfair because of the amount of money they spend making these programs. If you buy a new program you are dropping easily over a couple hundred dollars. And by dropping that couple hundred dollars to ensure that the program has no issues and still then it's not a garunteed thing, right? So while I understand your attempt to contrive the situation to something more referable, it's not the same thing. You are not paying hundreds of dollars for the program. You are at most (not including DLC because it is an extension of the game) paying 69.99$ unless your Australian. You are not paying for the garunteed assurance that it will be issues free. And no one is saying you aren't allowed a refund. In fact it's been suggested multiple times.[/quote]


Unfortunatley for them, the costumer can and will expect quality. Hence why we are allowed that refund. Biowar-EA-tivision (slick, I know, working on that for a while), does NOT want me to get the refund. This is why Bio (EA, whatever) gives us patches. Shabby products are noticable, and the support (or lack of), even more.

[quote]While faulty design creates bugs, so does miscommunication between the program and hardware (see lag), unknown command inputs that aren't read correctly (see radial dials not working properly), hardware issues (see voice lag, character dismemberment, graphics issues in general), and a slew of other things. While you can say that faulty design creates bugs all that is being ignorant  towards programming. Faulty design is not equatable to the transferance of input commands among a system that reads that system outside of the original design.(see EoR being tasked to create the ports).[/quote]

This...I will give you. However, it is not my position, or even my responsibility to worry about the details as to why my product is faulty. That is not the job of the customer. You speak as if they are out of the equation, when they are the most important part. Lack of any viable communication will lead to lack of any sort of commerence - which, as a whole, is what they are all about. As a major company, they know that simply doing things just because 'they can technically get away with it' does not generate income. So the lack of any feedback is supprising, on all fronts.

I won't pretend they are the first game company to do this, nor will I suspect they will be the last. Oblivion, love it to death, was so buggy I caught the flu ten times over. Patches were released to allow me to actually use my product - not just 'be funtional'.

[quote]Really? I can bring up MULTIPLE examples of where you are trying to say that console users 'deserve less help than PC users. Iam not using my console as an example, YOU are. You are saying that because I am using an inferior system, in very insulting ways (and I can quote those times), that consolers deserve less help. The fact is, you having troubles with the PC has nothing to do WITH THE TOPIC AT HAND. Hell, If I may quote, you have outright said my opinion holds no water because I do not go through what PC'ers go through. You stated that I must feel bad and inadequate because I am using a console. You have bought up the issue, and cannot try to back out of it. If you need an example;

No, it's that im not pandering to your sense of entitlement outright. You want to be mad because you can't afford to play on a decent gaming rig, be mad. You want to be mad because you bought into the hype of the PS3 and XBox 360 being just like a computer, have fun. But do not subject your own insecurities, fears, and frustrations towards what others are saying.

You can not demand a simple solution or answer, when the issue at hand is not a simple issue. [/quote]

[quote]If you read back you will notice that you state:
[quote]Trying to come here saying "ha ha, that is what you console gamers get
for having consoles and not PC's" doesn't make you look any better.
Good that you've spent your life getting a shiny new PC. Great for you.
If that makes you feel good, then I'm happy for you. That does not mean
I do not deserve answers as to why my product is faulty, and why
nothing is being done about it.[/quote]

Before my quoted response.

[quote]These elitist PC douchebags are getting on my nerves. Look, go ****** off
somewhere else. I'm glad that having a gaming PC makes you feel like
the top of the world, since you can waste money on it,but us with a
fixed budget cannot afford one. Maybe you should make a real
accomlpishment so you can stop thinking that owning a gaming PC makes
t3h bestest gamur EVAR.[/quote]

Do not throw around accusations based on your bias and your bias alone. If you think you are playing on an inferior system then thats your statement to make. And you are the one who keeps bringing it into play as if it holds some form of validation. So before you go making a claim that anyone at any point in time has
done or said something to even infer any amount of "elitism" or
"superiority" over you because you play a console, take a good look in
the mirror and realize that you are doing it yourself.

As for the products released, I can call ports inforior products all I want. Solely because they are.[/quote]


This is clear evidence that you only want to see what you want to see. Right about those posts that you have quoted, PC users have come here claiming word for word that the PC is superior, and "we deserve this".  So please, before you want to start throwing around the word 'bias', since you only want to see what you want to see. Those quotes were not meant for you in the first place, so trying to take them out of context does not prove your point.


If you feel they are inferior, that's on you. I however, like the game on the 360.  

[quote]Unfortunatley for you, your OPINION does nothing to futher the thread. The fact is, and as you repeated for me, just because you feel this thread is not what it should be, gives you no reason to come here and try to put down others. I'm sorry if our opinion is not what you like,but you can't act like an arrogant brat when people don't hold the same ideas.


Nobody is deamanding a quick fix. We, however, are demanding an answer as to why nothing has been mentioned. One Dev came and said they weren't even looking at a fix at the time. This has people understandably angry. If you cannot see why, then that's on you.[/quote]

[quote]If you think I am putting you down by telling you that ported games have issues that is not my problem. If you think I am putting you down by telling you that you need to be more aware of how wrong the simple "I am a consumer" ideology when it comes to gaming is/that Xbox,PC,PS3 stickers mean something other then what you think they do, that is not my problem. But at no point in time have I ever put others down in this thread. Simple fact is on forums for gaming companies they do not respond to these threads, and will actively avoid them. And in rare cases ignore in the fullest, and if you think your being ignored now just experience what being hated by developers feels like, every aspect of a segment of a community. You as a member of the XBox community have yet to truely feel alienated by the developers at Bioware.

As for the rest. Read the PS3 forums. There is a thread in there to which the first page I believe has a quote in regards to why the PS3 hasn't gotten the RTO DLC yet. It may be very informative for you as well as others.

http://social.biowar...68/index/842439 This thread to be exact.[/quote]

Really? I believe I can quote the various insults you have thrown around. Just because you do not outright namecall does not mean you do not put down others, hence why so many people have jumped on your comments. If they do not respond to this forum, then that is between us and them. But if we feel that we must make a thread for the sole purpose of complaining, then so be it.