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[Maedryc]

Liso66 wrote...

".an Expansion is, by definition, part of the original game"

Yes it is.. However, it technically means you need the base game to play it. Not necessarily story or items..

So? You don't need them, but if the items were assumed to be compatible with the original game, and the expansion is still part of the original game, logically they're bound to work with the expansion, because when you're playing the expansion, you're still playing the original game.

Modifié par Maedryc, 17 février 2010 - 12:25 .

[Liso66]

Maedryc wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

".an Expansion is, by definition, part of the original game"

Yes it is.. However, it technically means you need the base game to play it. Not necessarily story or items..

So? You don't need them, but if the items were assumed to be compatible with the original game, and the expansion is still part of the original game, logically they're bound to work with the expansion, because they're still being used in the original game.

I understand what you are saying. Lets take another approach if you will indulge me please.

From a game companies perspective, these DLC's are separate. they do not effect the base game in the least. Not the story or outcome. they are an additional cost to the player. There for..... Not all players who buy the expansion, have pruchased the DLC items.. So assuming you get nothing for free "which is always the case" Not only would they have to develope a system for modders to not be able to use their bought content and give it away in modules, but they would need a system that separates who has what.. Seems a bit comlplex from my viewpoint. Bioware/EA and any other company are not in this soly as a labor of love. Not at all from a financial stand point. As much as I'd love to have Starfang with me, my dragon armor etc.. I understand the reasoning behind it.

An additional thought. who's to say you are not going to get some uber-riffic items in the expansion, that toss your love of former items out the virtial pixel window? 

Just my .02.. 

Modifié par Liso66, 17 février 2010 - 12:33 .

[Alandros]

Maedryc wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

".an Expansion is, by definition, part of the original game"

Yes it is.. However, it technically means you need the base game to play it. Not necessarily story or items..

So? You don't need them, but if the items were assumed to be compatible with the original game, and the expansion is still part of the original game, logically they're bound to work with the expansion, because when you're playing the expansion, you're still playing the original game.

In gaming terms it has never meant the original game.  It's always been something you can add-on, the part from which the original game ends and the expansion ends... the area expanded if you will.  If it didn't originally ship then it's not part of the original game.  It may in fact be a part of the game, but original game, obviously not.

[Maedryc]

Alandros wrote...

Maedryc wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

".an Expansion is, by definition, part of the original game"

Yes it is.. However, it technically means you need the base game to play it. Not necessarily story or items..

So? You don't need them, but if the items were assumed to be compatible with the original game, and the expansion is still part of the original game, logically they're bound to work with the expansion, because when you're playing the expansion, you're still playing the original game.

In gaming terms it has never meant the original game.  It's always been something you can add-on, the part from which the original game ends and the expansion ends... the area expanded if you will.  If it didn't originally ship then it's not part of the original game.  It may in fact be a part of the game, but original game, obviously not.

Guys, there's just no precedent for such an interpretation. No other gaming company ever created two distinct official supports for a game ( expansion and dlc, dlc and dlc ) which were not compatible with each other.
There's not something as a "gaming code" that can change the mundane interpretation of the word "expansion" and "DLCs are intended for X game".
You're free to think what you want, obviously, but I'm going to call BS on this one.

Modifié par Maedryc, 17 février 2010 - 12:44 .

[Maedryc]

Liso66 wrote...

Maedryc wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

".an Expansion is, by definition, part of the original game"

Yes it is.. However, it technically means you need the base game to play it. Not necessarily story or items..

So? You don't need them, but if the items were assumed to be compatible with the original game, and the expansion is still part of the original game, logically they're bound to work with the expansion, because they're still being used in the original game.

I understand what you are saying. Lets take another approach if you will indulge me please.

[b]From a game companies perspective, these DLC's are separate. they do not effect the base game in the least.[/b ] Not the story or outcome. they are an additional cost to the player. There for..... Not all players who buy the expansion, have pruchased the DLC items.. So assuming you get nothing for free "which is always the case" Not only would they have to develope a system for modders to not be able to use their bought content and give it away in modules, but they would need a system that separates who has what.. Seems a bit comlplex from my viewpoint. Bioware/EA and any other company are not in this soly as a labor of love. Not at all from a financial stand point. As much as I'd love to have Starfang with me, my dragon armor etc.. I understand the reasoning behind it.

An additional thought. who's to say you are not going to get some uber-riffic items in the expansion, that toss your love of former items out the virtial pixel window? 

Just my .02.. 

Are you kidding or what? The purpose of a DLC is to add to a game, care to explain how they "do not effect the base game in the least"!? Their purpose is to "affect the game" in the first place!! If a DLC didn't add to the game, nobody would buy them
Look, I understand what being an apologist means, I'm one usually...but this logic is strained at best...
As for the fact that you may be given better items later, that's not the point. We've paid for the DLC in the first place, and we're going to pay for the expansion as well. It's not like Awakening is free...we're going to get those items regardless of the fact that we have/haven't bought the DLC in the first place.
What would you say if your employer took away your pay at the end of the month telling you: "don't worry, you'll be able to regain your pay at the end of next month"? How cool is working two months for a paycheck you're supposed to get 1/month?

Modifié par Maedryc, 17 février 2010 - 12:51 .

[Alandros]

Fair enough... I simply think it's important to realize the distinction between the base game and any additional content. Such is a challenge with having a network of "modules" that can be plugged in is compatibility. In this case you hit the nail on the head that this typically isn't a problem. I can sympathize with this problem however, being in software (game tech in fact) development, that making many different modules that can piece together in varying ways compatible with each other is not a dismiss able amount of work.

So while for you that work may be best spent doing such and not on other content I would rather have it spent on other content.

Modifié par Alandros, 17 février 2010 - 12:50 .

[Liso66]

Maedryc wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

Maedryc wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

".an Expansion is, by definition, part of the original game"

Yes it is.. However, it technically means you need the base game to play it. Not necessarily story or items..

So? You don't need them, but if the items were assumed to be compatible with the original game, and the expansion is still part of the original game, logically they're bound to work with the expansion, because they're still being used in the original game.

I understand what you are saying. Lets take another approach if you will indulge me please.

[b]From a game companies perspective, these DLC's are separate. they do not effect the base game in the least.[/b ] Not the story or outcome. they are an additional cost to the player. There for..... Not all players who buy the expansion, have pruchased the DLC items.. So assuming you get nothing for free "which is always the case" Not only would they have to develope a system for modders to not be able to use their bought content and give it away in modules, but they would need a system that separates who has what.. Seems a bit comlplex from my viewpoint. Bioware/EA and any other company are not in this soly as a labor of love. Not at all from a financial stand point. As much as I'd love to have Starfang with me, my dragon armor etc.. I understand the reasoning behind it.

An additional thought. who's to say you are not going to get some uber-riffic items in the expansion, that toss your love of former items out the virtial pixel window? 

Just my .02.. 

Are you kidding or what? The purpose of a DLC is to add to a game, care to explain how they "do not effect the base game in the least"!? Their purpose is to "affect the game" in the first place!! If a DLC didn't add to the game, nobody would buy them
Look, I understand what being an apologist means, I'm one usually...but this logic is strained at best...

What I mean is... Wether or not you had these DLC's, they do not change your game. the endings and outcomes are still the same.

Example.. Return to Ostagar.. So you pick up some items? so what? you have a letters that tell you a few things. So what? They do not apply to your basic game or story. not in the least. you are not even able to inform anyone that you found this or that.. and I do not want to go into details, as they would be spoilers.   Having said that.. Items gave you more veriaty. I get it. However, it truly has no barring on the story or outcomes. So, as I can tell, other than a few set items you get to carry around, it has no true effect on the story.. 

[Maedryc]

Liso66 wrote...

Maedryc wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

Maedryc wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

".an Expansion is, by definition, part of the original game"

Yes it is.. However, it technically means you need the base game to play it. Not necessarily story or items..

So? You don't need them, but if the items were assumed to be compatible with the original game, and the expansion is still part of the original game, logically they're bound to work with the expansion, because they're still being used in the original game.

I understand what you are saying. Lets take another approach if you will indulge me please.

[b]From a game companies perspective, these DLC's are separate. they do not effect the base game in the least.[/b ] Not the story or outcome. they are an additional cost to the player. There for..... Not all players who buy the expansion, have pruchased the DLC items.. So assuming you get nothing for free "which is always the case" Not only would they have to develope a system for modders to not be able to use their bought content and give it away in modules, but they would need a system that separates who has what.. Seems a bit comlplex from my viewpoint. Bioware/EA and any other company are not in this soly as a labor of love. Not at all from a financial stand point. As much as I'd love to have Starfang with me, my dragon armor etc.. I understand the reasoning behind it.

An additional thought. who's to say you are not going to get some uber-riffic items in the expansion, that toss your love of former items out the virtial pixel window? 

Just my .02.. 

Are you kidding or what? The purpose of a DLC is to add to a game, care to explain how they "do not effect the base game in the least"!? Their purpose is to "affect the game" in the first place!! If a DLC didn't add to the game, nobody would buy them
Look, I understand what being an apologist means, I'm one usually...but this logic is strained at best...

What I mean is... Wether or not you had these DLC's, they do not change your game. the endings and outcomes are still the same.

Example.. Return to Ostagar.. So you pick up some items? so what? you have a letters that tell you a few things. So what? They do not apply to your basic game or story. not in the least. you are not even able to inform anyone that you found this or that.. and I do not want to go into details, as they would be spoilers.   Having said that.. Items gave you more veriaty. I get it. However, it truly has no barring on the story or outcomes. So, as I can tell, other than a few set items you get to carry around, it has no true effect on the story.. 

I'm afraid I don't get your point. Not a single piece of equipment, either in the game or the DLCs, impacts the ending. So, again, why are the DLC loots different?

[knittzu]

Liso66 wrote...
Example.. Return to Ostagar.. So you pick up some items? so what? you have a letters that tell you a few things. So what? They do not apply to your basic game or story. not in the least. you are not even able to inform anyone that you found this or that.. and I do not want to go into details, as they would be spoilers.   Having said that.. Items gave you more veriaty. I get it. However, it truly has no barring on the story or outcomes. So, as I can tell, other than a few set items you get to carry around, it has no true effect on the story.. 

I have to respectfully disagree with you there, as the information in those letters had a direct impact on my character's final decision over who should take the throne and why.

But as far as all the weapons and armor we collected in those DLC -- I completely understand why people are so upset, but I don't think losing it is ultimately going to matter.  I'm almost certain that the first set of drops we get will make all our gear from the DLCs look like garage sale junk.  Now for *story* reasons I hate losing Cailin's armor, but since I won't have Alistair... *le sigh*.

[shedevil3001]

no you might still have alistair it says hes a potential companion depending on the choices made in origins

[Liso66]

Because they did not come with the game, because they were a separate cost, because EA is a company with the sole intent to make money.No matter how much we do not like it, they do not want to give anything away for free or risking the ability for any loopholes to allow it.In short, they are not givin' up their goodies.... And rather than spend the time, money and resources to enable this, they went forward with the expansion and will collect more money. which is their sole intent.

[Liso66]

I thought Alistair is a potential cameo spot depending on choices? Don't tease me Shedevil! lol

[shedevil3001]

its a shame really coz ea are gonna profit from it all and bioware is the ones everyone is pee'd off at not ea

[shedevil3001]

no seriously read this







Besides Oghren who plays a large role in Awakening, there are cameos and returning characters. For companions you'll potentially meet Loghain, Wynne, and Alistair depending on your decisions in Origins. In regards to NPCs, Master Wade and Herren reprise their roles, with Wade offering to make even more fantastical goods if the player brings his list of ingredients. Loghain's daughter, Anora, may also appear in Awakening depending on your choices in Origins. From David Gaider's novel "The Calling" - both the Architect and Utha are present in Awakening.

[Liso66]

shedevil3001 wrote...

its a shame really coz ea are gonna profit from it all and bioware is the ones everyone is pee'd off at not ea

Naa. i am not po'd at Bioware.  I know exactly where this snowball effect is coming from... this has EA written all over it.. i still love bioware!

[Liso66]

shedevil3001 wrote...

no seriously read this



Besides Oghren who plays a large role in Awakening, there are cameos and returning characters. For companions you'll potentially meet Loghain, Wynne, and Alistair depending on your decisions in Origins. In regards to NPCs, Master Wade and Herren reprise their roles, with Wade offering to make even more fantastical goods if the player brings his list of ingredients. Loghain's daughter, Anora, may also appear in Awakening depending on your choices in Origins. From David Gaider's novel "The Calling" - both the Architect and Utha are present in Awakening.

potentially meet Loghain, Wynne, and Alistair depending on your
decisions in Origins   "meet"? that is very criptic..  meet up, see for a few, or have them actually join you..  "ponders"

[shedevil3001]

i think bioware games are good and i loved dao it could of been better though but thats the same with all games. I'm not peeved i'm just dissapointed that they took out the romance options that was my fave bit of the game

[shedevil3001]

potential companions i'm thinking it means they join up with you

[Liso66]

Yeah.. even though most romance options are kind of lame. and they progress oddly. this time was kind of decent. An example is NWN2. "rolls eyes" I had no clue there was a romance happening! lol

Modifié par Liso66, 17 février 2010 - 02:02 .

[Maedryc]

Liso66 wrote...

Because they did not come with the game, because they were a separate cost, because EA is a company with the sole intent to make money.No matter how much we do not like it, they do not want to give anything away for free or risking the ability for any loopholes to allow it.In short, they are not givin' up their goodies.... And rather than spend the time, money and resources to enable this, they went forward with the expansion and will collect more money. which is their sole intent.

...and this makes this choice right how? It's still utterly illogic. What you're saying is "yeah, they're cheating you. But that's OK, since they're  a big company, and big companies are supposed to trick people just to make money. So, you shouldn't complain".  
Furthermore, it's not as if the DLC were free. They're not "giving their goodies", we've paid for them, and they're official content. So yeah, I damn expect that they're supported in the official expansion, or I might as well save my money and download a free mod if I want more stuff for DAO (which, incidentally, is what I'll do with the next DLC).

[shedevil3001]

nwn2 yer i know i was the same hmmmm bishop the good old days

[Liso66]

Maedryc wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

Because they did not come with the game, because they were a separate cost, because EA is a company with the sole intent to make money.No matter how much we do not like it, they do not want to give anything away for free or risking the ability for any loopholes to allow it.In short, they are not givin' up their goodies.... And rather than spend the time, money and resources to enable this, they went forward with the expansion and will collect more money. which is their sole intent.

...and this makes this choice right how? It's still utterly illogic. What you're saying is "yeah, they're cheating you. But that's OK, since they're  a big company, and big companies are supposed to trick people just to make money. So, you shouldn't complain".  
Furthermore, it's not as if the DLC were free. They're not "giving their goodies", we've paid for them, and they're official content. So yeah, I damn expect that they're supported in the official expansion, or I might as well save my money and download a free mod if I want more stuff for DAO (which, incidentally, is what I'll do with the next DLC).

We are starting to beat the dead horse. And trust me when I say this.. I do understand where you are coming from. It is not those who paid for the goodies. I have ALL DLC content. It is those that have not paid into them. EA doesn't want to risk giving anything away if they potentionally have more buyers lined up...  I am seeing this from EA's perspective.Shouting my annoyance over not getting my DLC items will do no good. not when it comes to their profits. Hense, why I was trying to point out the reasons we won't be seeing them..  It is sad, EA is a publisher, not a game developer. Their mindset is way off on a different level....

[Liso66]

shedevil3001 wrote...

nwn2 yer i know i was the same hmmmm bishop the good old days

Bishop was a far better option!  hehe... that uptight boring palidan....  grrrrr.  or that elf chick. can not even remember her name now, she was so boring.....

I think we fell off track somewhere.. 

[Maedryc]

Liso66 wrote...

Maedryc wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

Because they did not come with the game, because they were a separate cost, because EA is a company with the sole intent to make money.No matter how much we do not like it, they do not want to give anything away for free or risking the ability for any loopholes to allow it.In short, they are not givin' up their goodies.... And rather than spend the time, money and resources to enable this, they went forward with the expansion and will collect more money. which is their sole intent.

...and this makes this choice right how? It's still utterly illogic. What you're saying is "yeah, they're cheating you. But that's OK, since they're  a big company, and big companies are supposed to trick people just to make money. So, you shouldn't complain".  
Furthermore, it's not as if the DLC were free. They're not "giving their goodies", we've paid for them, and they're official content. So yeah, I damn expect that they're supported in the official expansion, or I might as well save my money and download a free mod if I want more stuff for DAO (which, incidentally, is what I'll do with the next DLC).

We are starting to beat the dead horse. And trust me when I say this.. I do understand where you are coming from. It is not those who paid for the goodies. I have ALL DLC content. It is those that have not paid into them. EA doesn't want to risk giving anything away if they potentionally have more buyers lined up...  I am seeing this from EA's perspective.Shouting my annoyance over not getting my DLC items will do no good. not when it comes to their profits. Hense, why I was trying to point out the reasons we won't be seeing them..  It is sad, EA is a publisher, not a game developer. Their mindset is way off on a different level....

And how exactly does invalidating all of the previously released DLCs help sales? Do you realize that nobody will bother buying RtO and WK as soon as Awakening is out, since the content is not carried over? Basically, they're killing their own sales.
Furthermore, there are a lot of people that are on the fence about DLC. What do you think will happen when the next DLC comes, considering that people now know that it might not be supported in the next expansion?

[Liso66]

Maedryc wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

Maedryc wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

Because they did not come with the game, because they were a separate cost, because EA is a company with the sole intent to make money.No matter how much we do not like it, they do not want to give anything away for free or risking the ability for any loopholes to allow it.In short, they are not givin' up their goodies.... And rather than spend the time, money and resources to enable this, they went forward with the expansion and will collect more money. which is their sole intent.

...and this makes this choice right how? It's still utterly illogic. What you're saying is "yeah, they're cheating you. But that's OK, since they're  a big company, and big companies are supposed to trick people just to make money. So, you shouldn't complain".  
Furthermore, it's not as if the DLC were free. They're not "giving their goodies", we've paid for them, and they're official content. So yeah, I damn expect that they're supported in the official expansion, or I might as well save my money and download a free mod if I want more stuff for DAO (which, incidentally, is what I'll do with the next DLC).

We are starting to beat the dead horse. And trust me when I say this.. I do understand where you are coming from. It is not those who paid for the goodies. I have ALL DLC content. It is those that have not paid into them. EA doesn't want to risk giving anything away if they potentionally have more buyers lined up...  I am seeing this from EA's perspective.Shouting my annoyance over not getting my DLC items will do no good. not when it comes to their profits. Hense, why I was trying to point out the reasons we won't be seeing them..  It is sad, EA is a publisher, not a game developer. Their mindset is way off on a different level....

And how exactly does invalidating all of the previously released DLCs help sales? Do you realize that nobody will bother buying RtO and WK as soon as Awakening is out, since the content is not carried over? Basically, they're killing their own sales.
Furthermore, there are a lot of people that are on the fence about DLC. What do you think will happen when the next DLC comes, considering that people now know that it might not be supported in the next expansion?

Again, you are correct.. Correct from a player point of view. Sadly EA never seems to understand the reasonable and logical aspects of things. they rush rush rush, to not take the time to polish things up and do them right.. Bioware now at their mercery for financing...  "sighs"

Modifié par Liso66, 17 février 2010 - 02:21 .