75 réponses à ce sujet

[LakeshowAD1986]

In the first game it was from my understanding that the Reapers needed the citadel to open up darkspace for them to advance into the Milky Way, however the Protheans prevented this which is why Saren needed the Conduit to override the controls to allow the Reapers to arrive.

1)  How did Sovereign arrive in the Milky Way when the Reapers are ment to be trapped in dark space?
2)  How were the Reapers able to advance towards the galaxy at the end of ME2 if they were infact still trapped in dark space?  Even when Harbinger mentions that although the Collectors had failed, they will find another way.

I'm sorry if this is too much to cover, a simple link or a short explaination would be great.

Ta

[Tyreal42a]

1. Sovereign was a caretaker. He was 'left behind' so to speak to oversee things and make sure nothing went wrong.

2. That final cut scene was pretty...vague. For all we know, they could still have no way to arrive and they're just moving around out of idle boredom. Stretching their feet, so to speak.  Feet...tentacles...whatever.

Modifié par Tyreal42a, 13 février 2010 - 06:52 .

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Using the Citadel as the Relay is much more efficient so they don't use up what little resources they have traveling into the galaxy before they harvest for more. Since four of their plans to get back into the galaxy (The Keppers, Rachni, Saren, and The Collectors) failed, they're going to risk wasting an assload of resources making the trip the hard way in order to ensure their harvest continues.



They're all big flying ships, they don't need Mass Relay's, just like all of the species in the galaxy don't need Mass Relay's. Travel is just faster and they waste less resources making those jumps than they would without them.

[GtarTravis]

I'm not exactly sure what "dark space" is, I'm assuming its just... REALLY far out in space. So the ending of ME2 might just be the Reapers traveling towards the galaxy using conventional means of propulsion... which takes a REALLY long time.

[SuperVaderMan]

2.) Because Harbinger alerted the rest of the reapers once their reaper-production facility was destroyed. From my understanding Sovereign was the one designated to signal the reapers return and Harbinger was the one to carry out experiments on the current galactic population.



I'm guessing it'll just take the reapers a heck of a lot longer to GET to the galaxy without the citadel being active. And even then things are gonna be tougher for them since they won't be able to just cut off the galaxy's central government immediately like they usually do.

[Champion1]

Ya, dark space isn't really a trap. I never understood why they said the Reapers were trapped in dark space, since it's just the Galactic Void.
Also, if the Citadel was a Mass Relay, doesn't that mean the Reapers must have another relay out there with them? Why can't they just reprogram where that relay comes out? Sure, it won't be the Citadel anymore, but it's better then taking a few hundred years flying on FTLs to get to the galaxy.

Modifié par Champion1, 13 février 2010 - 07:00 .

[Tyreal42a]

So the entire reason for the keepers was just a case of severe laziness on their part? Like a really lazy person complaining about the elevator being broken because they have to walk up the stairs. I'm not fearing the Reapers as much as I did before right now. Those overweight, lazy buggers!

[Ryuukosusei]

They probably have some more plans on how to get to the citadel. If they just travel and start attacking random places, they will never know where everyone is. In Mass Effect 3 they will probably reveal their 'fail safe' plan.



But if i were the humans, aliens etc. I would copy all the star map stuff on the citadel and then delete the citadel stuff, and hide it on a random planet, and when they get to the Citadel they will never know where everything is.

[JedTed]

I think coming through the Citadel was just their plan A, but since the Reapers built the relay network i imagine they could just hack into the outer most relay and enter the Milky Way that way.



Ofcorse we'd have the advantage over them because Citadel was how they managed to get the drop on the Protheans. However the Reapers are nothing if not bold and if their numbers are really as big as Sovereign claims then they're sure to give us one hell of a fight.

[Exile5618]

GtarTravis wrote...

I'm not exactly sure what "dark space" is, I'm assuming its just... REALLY far out in space. So the ending of ME2 might just be the Reapers traveling towards the galaxy using conventional means of propulsion... which takes a REALLY long time.

I believe that Dark Space is the area between galaxies.

[SovereignT]

I have been wondering about this for the longest of time...



Pretty sure that either the citadel somehow gets reactivated or maybe the collector base turns into a relay or something like that,..

[Doug84]

GtarTravis wrote...

I'm not exactly sure what "dark space" is, I'm assuming its just... REALLY far out in space. So the ending of ME2 might just be the Reapers traveling towards the galaxy using conventional means of propulsion... which takes a REALLY long time.

Its the void between Galaxies. The area between Galaxies has an extremely low density, even for space. Hence, its 'dark' because their is nothing emitting light in those regions.

And yeah, I get the impression the Reapers CAN attack by striking into the Galaxy from the rim, but the energy cost is high, and the riskes are greatly amplified.

After all, striking through the Citadel cripples the various species political, economy, and military power, AND grants the Reapers the ability to control the Mass Relay network. Effectively its a 'go for the head' strategy. A direct attack on 'fair' terms is more risky. Especially as the species in Citadel space will have time to rally together and counter the assault.

[Doug84]

SovereignT wrote...

I have been wondering about this for the longest of time...

Pretty sure that either the citadel somehow gets reactivated or maybe the collector base turns into a relay or something like that,..

No, they probably could always fly into the Galaxy. BUT the citadel is their best method because a) it uses up hardly any of their energy to do so, allows them to destory the capital of galaxy civilization in one go, crippling political, economy, and military efforts to counter their attack, and c) allows them to control the relay network, ensuring they can isolate individual systems.

EDIT: Flying into the Galaxy via the rim, on the other hand, gives the species time to realise their under attack, rally a huge allied fleet, and attempt to counter the Reapers.

Modifié par Doug84, 13 février 2010 - 07:16 .

[Weskerr]

SuperVaderMan wrote...

2.) Because Harbinger alerted the rest of the reapers once their reaper-production facility was destroyed. From my understanding Sovereign was the one designated to signal the reapers return and Harbinger was the one to carry out experiments on the current galactic population.

I'm guessing it'll just take the reapers a heck of a lot longer to GET to the galaxy without the citadel being active. And even then things are gonna be tougher for them since they won't be able to just cut off the galaxy's central government immediately like they usually do.

I don't think Harbinger was hiding away in the Milky Way galaxy as a vanguard for the Reapers like Sovereign was. I think it was implied that Harbinger is with the Reaper fleet in dark space, and that he controlled the Collectors from there.

[meznaric]

The reapers are in the void between the galaxies where they hibernate in 50 000 year cycles. They are there so as not to be found by other species during their hibernation. Now in order to get back into the galaxy they need a really big relay - the Citadel. So one of them is always left behind to send the signal to the citadel and the keepers to activate the relay. When Sovereign - the one left behind - was taken out, the Collectors realized it now falls up to them to activate the relay. To this end they started harvesting human colonies to build themselves a reaper. Since this plan was disturbed, the collectors threatened that the reapers will find another way in. Whether this was just an empty threat or not remains to be seen.

[Doug84]

meznaric wrote...

The reapers are in the void between the galaxies where they hibernate in 50 000 year cycles. They are there so as not to be found by other species during their hibernation. Now in order to get back into the galaxy they need a really big relay - the Citadel. So one of them is always left behind to send the signal to the citadel and the keepers to activate the relay. When Sovereign - the one left behind - was taken out, the Collectors realized it now falls up to them to activate the relay. To this end they started harvesting human colonies to build themselves a reaper. Since this plan was disturbed, the collectors threatened that the reapers will find another way in. Whether this was just an empty threat or not remains to be seen.

I doubt it was an empty threat. As I've said in this thread so far, they probably can fly into the Galaxy under their own power, but there are alot of disadvantages and riskes that they wouldn't have to face otherwise.

[Arrtis]

Maybe they are gonna slowly make their way over.

Or maybe they build something to help them get over there and they are going out starting to make it?

Maybe they still have unheard of races at their control to help them.

[huntrrz]

Champion1 wrote...

Ya, dark space isn't really a trap. I never understood why they said the Reapers were trapped in dark space, since it's just the Galactic Void.
Also, if the Citadel was a Mass Relay, doesn't that mean the Reapers must have another relay out there with them? Why can't they just reprogram where that relay comes out? Sure, it won't be the Citadel anymore, but it's better then taking a few hundred years flying on FTLs to get to the galaxy.

The description of mass relays in ME1 explains that there are two types of relays.  Secondary relays are omni-directional and can transfer to any other relay within a "limited" radius.  Primary relays span much greater distances but are linked on a one-to-one basis.  The Citadel and the "dark space" relay are directly linked, so the Reapers can't just redirect their relay to another in the network.

Given the vast distance involved, the Citadel and DS relay are probably "super-primary" relays and there is no substitute inside the galaxy.  (A tiiiny flaw in the Reapers' planning - they should have had a pair of back-up relays in place.  But perhaps they worried about it being discovered and raising questions.)

[Doug84]

huntrrz wrote...

Champion1 wrote...

Ya, dark space isn't really a trap. I never understood why they said the Reapers were trapped in dark space, since it's just the Galactic Void.
Also, if the Citadel was a Mass Relay, doesn't that mean the Reapers must have another relay out there with them? Why can't they just reprogram where that relay comes out? Sure, it won't be the Citadel anymore, but it's better then taking a few hundred years flying on FTLs to get to the galaxy.

The description of mass relays in ME1 explains that there are two types of relays.  Secondary relays are omni-directional and can transfer to any other relay within a "limited" radius.  Primary relays span much greater distances but are linked on a one-to-one basis.  The Citadel and the "dark space" relay are directly linked, so the Reapers can't just redirect their relay to another in the network.

Given the vast distance involved, the Citadel and DS relay are probably "super-primary" relays and there is no substitute inside the galaxy.  (A tiiiny flaw in the Reapers' planning - they should have had a pair of back-up relays in place.  But perhaps they worried about it being discovered and raising questions.)

Honestly, I think the Reapers are deserparate enough now to just fly to the first relay in the galaxy they can reach and launch their invasion from there.  They are probably able to travel at FTL for indefinite periods without stopping to discharge, so they can probably actually do that. Its just very expensive in terms of energy and in terms of risk i.e. instead of killing all the organic leaders, crippling their economies, destroying their military leadership AND taking control of the whole Mass Relay network, they have to attack with none of those advantages.

[Burdokva]

What Dough84 said, attacking the Citadel gives them the advantage of controlling the mass relays and having unlimited information about the species they are about to exterminate - plus, they destroy the central government and military of the galaxy and effectively cripple it. It's not mandatory, but it's far easier than just parade in, guns blazing.



What if we had the technology to build mass relays cannons like the one that destroyed a Reaper 37 million years ago and left the scar on Klendagon? We could bombard them at leisure while they arrive and regroup at the edges of the galaxy an have a full-fledging military economy prepared for all-out war.

[meznaric]

I think Mass Effect 3 is going to be all about finding a way to activate the Citadel mass relay without letting the Reapers come back and then taking them out at their base.

[Qario]

Champion1 wrote...
Given the vast distance involved, the Citadel and DS relay are probably "super-primary" relays and there is no substitute inside the galaxy.  (A tiiiny flaw in the Reapers' planning - they should have had a pair of back-up relays in place.  But perhaps they worried about it being discovered and raising questions.)

Yea I've had the same thought. However there is the derlict reaper in the reaper IFF mission. This reaper (according to the illusive man) was destoyed in a great battle 37 million years ago, if the reapers are so keen to keep themself hidden, wouldn't they have gotten rid of the reaper corpse? and who knows if there are any other reaper corpses out there. Back to the point, their backup system was the collectors, and harbringer clearly states that they will find another way, which I interperet as they've "run out" of backup system to enter the galaxy and have to figure out a new way. Flying from darkspace to the milky way is pretty much out of the question, I'm not an astronomer, but reapers could be millions of lightyears away from the galaxy?

Modifié par Qario, 13 février 2010 - 07:50 .

[Tylyanhar]

Burdokva wrote...

What Dough84 said, attacking the Citadel gives them the advantage of controlling the mass relays and having unlimited information about the species they are about to exterminate - plus, they destroy the central government and military of the galaxy and effectively cripple it. It's not mandatory, but it's far easier than just parade in, guns blazing.

What if we had the technology to build mass relays cannons like the one that destroyed a Reaper 37 million years ago and left the scar on Klendagon? We could bombard them at leisure while they arrive and regroup at the edges of the galaxy an have a full-fledging military economy prepared for all-out war.

That is why I spared the Collector Base. Hopefully, Cerberus can come up with some powerful weapon that PWNS all by the time the Reapers attack.

[Doug84]

Burdokva wrote...

What Dough84 said, attacking the Citadel gives them the advantage of controlling the mass relays and having unlimited information about the species they are about to exterminate - plus, they destroy the central government and military of the galaxy and effectively cripple it. It's not mandatory, but it's far easier than just parade in, guns blazing.

What if we had the technology to build mass relays cannons like the one that destroyed a Reaper 37 million years ago and left the scar on Klendagon? We could bombard them at leisure while they arrive and regroup at the edges of the galaxy an have a full-fledging military economy prepared for all-out war.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the Citadel species DO have that tech. After all, their own weapons are mass accelerator based. Its just a matter of scaling up the gun until the kinetic energy is that powerful. But even that wasn't enough to save the species who killed that Reaper. I can't imagine its a very cheap effectively way of building a gun, and I imagine it was a last ditch 'screw it, we've got no better plan' project.

Add to that, I'd imagine its hard to hit a moving target several light years away

Thanks for agreeing with my argument though

[SovereignT]

Doug84 wrote...

SovereignT wrote...

I have been wondering about this for the longest of time...

Pretty sure that either the citadel somehow gets reactivated or maybe the collector base turns into a relay or something like that,..

No, they probably could always fly into the Galaxy. BUT the citadel is their best method because a) it uses up hardly any of their energy to do so, allows them to destory the capital of galaxy civilization in one go, crippling political, economy, and military efforts to counter their attack, and c) allows them to control the relay network, ensuring they can isolate individual systems.

EDIT: Flying into the Galaxy via the rim, on the other hand, gives the species time to realise their under attack, rally a huge allied fleet, and attempt to counter the Reapers.

If what you say is in fact correct then it will directly contradict what Vigil said to you in the orginal about the reapers getting trapped in dark space..