75 réponses à ce sujet

[kraidy1117]

They don't need the citadel to attack, they use it so they can sneak in and cause chaos. Well it is useless now because alot of people know about the reapers and Shepard has a datapad full of detail on the reapers so stealth is no longer a option. Also there human-reaper plan was stopped so I think they have had enough. Pay attention to the cut scene carefully, you can see them flying towards the milkjy way, with Harbinger leading them.

[Computron2000]

LakeshowAD1986 wrote...
2)  How were the Reapers able to advance towards the galaxy at the end of ME2 if they were infact still trapped in dark space?  Even when Harbinger mentions that although the Collectors had failed, they will find another way.

Not sure if the 2nd point was explained, so here goes

What is termed as darkspace is actually the space between galaxies. To make it clearer, in game when you travel to a system with more than 1 star, you use a lot of fuel. In a single star system, traveling from earth to mars, to even uranus, you use 0 fuel. The fuel usage represents the vast distance that is actually between stars. It is very very much larger than the distance from lets say our sun to pluto or neptune or uranus.

The entire universe does not just consist of 1 galaxy (our home is the milky way galaxy), so use the same thinking. The distance between galaxies is very very much larger than between stars. The reapers without the mass effect relay for immediate transport has to use something similar to the Normandy's engines. This means they will take a lot of time travelling. It may very well mean ME3 is also a few years in game time after ME2

[Kyria Nyriese]

Haven't read entire thread so not sure if this is stated, however, just because they are in Dark Space doesn't mean the Reapers are that far outside of the Milky Way, dark space is considered anything beyond the galactic barrier, so they could be sitting just outside the galaxy waiting to make their way back in.

[huntrrz]

Doug84 wrote...

Possibly. Though the Reaper corpse was powerful enough to indocrate anyone who board it for more than a few hours. So possibly they weren't concerned about it.

We don't know how long the Cerberus team was aboard the Reaper corpse before they started succumbing to indoctrination.  I have to guess it was several weeks - the platforms and scaffolding you walk over appear to be of human construction, added by the survey team after they arrived.  There are also a lot of standard terminals and supplies in the Reaper, more than could be added in a few hours, especially if they started going insane so quickly.

[TheLostGenius]

Shadow Wolf783 wrote...

Did anyone notice Harb say that the Reapers were not our enemy but means to our salvation. So there could actually be something worse than the reapers out there. Besides we don't know how close the Reapers are to the Galaxy It might take them a long time or a very short time to get there. The Citidal could of been a tactic they used to swarm the Galaxy kind of a Reaper Blitzkrieg to launch their entire force at once catching the galactic community off guard. But Even when the Reapers attacked it was not a simple extermination it was a long an bloody war if I remeber from ME 1 the extermination of the Protheans took a hundred years , and who knows how long it took the Reapers to kill the other species

By means of salvation he means exctinction of an inferior race.

[Rhostadt]

 Does no one read the codex entries?  The ones on the different kinds of relays and the one on FTL Drive Charge explain most of what everyone is confused about: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/FTL  The difference between primary and secondary relays has already been explained in this thread; the Citadel is definitely a primary relay, and so is it's partner (by definition).
The Reapers are out in the galactic void, hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of lightyears from our galaxy.  There's nothing out there for them to discharge their drive cores into; even if their drives are a thousand times more efficient than anything the Council races have.  But what if their drives don't require discharging?  What if their drives are just really fast.  There's absolutely no indication of either thing; it's always implied their technology is just a much more advanced version of Council tech (by their design) like their control of the relays, better energy weapons, and more sophisticated AI.  Also consider:  1) Sovereign used a mass relay to approach the Citadel.  2) If they could've remained effectively hidden beyond the galactic rim without using a super relay they would've just flown a 50,000 year loop with their FTL drives.  They didn't.

It seems the best way to delay the Reaper invasion is to simply blow up the Citadel.  

[huntrrz]

Rhostadt wrote...

It seems the best way to delay the Reaper invasion is to simply blow up the Citadel.  

Which would be a harder sell than investing in non-fossil fuels or instituting health-care reform...  :innocent:

[Skyblade012]

Reapers use element zero based technology, and thus their drives will need to discharge. That much is inevitible. How often and in what manner is what is important. Arc discharges into space and throughout their own systems will occur if the charge is allowed to build up enough, but they might well be able to handle that (and it would be bad news for any ships in the area if a Reaper dropped out of FTL discharging two or three years worth of charge buildup into a surrounding fleet).



Further, the drive speed is entirely dependent on the amount of eezo being used. With enough eezo, the Reapers could effectively negate their own mass, allowing near instantaneous travel. With no mass, there is no inertia, nothing at all to counteract any thruster force except friction, and the void between galaxies would be empty enough to make that negligible.



The big problem is that these plans for getting back in wouldn't explain the key of the whole puzzle, which is why they need to use the Citadel.

[Overlord Zakaru]

By my understanding (and sorry if this was already stated) Sovereign was to send a signal to citadel telling keepers to summon the Reaper fleet, lead by Harbinger.  That failed because of the Prothien scientists.  Sovereign got Saren to try to reopen the relay, but Shepard stopped him and helped kill Sovereign.  The Reapers needed a new Reaper to open the relay and replace Sovereign, so Harbinger got the collectors to kidnap humans (revenge for Sovereign since humans killed him) and build a new Vanguard.  Shepard kills that Human-Reaper, and stops the Reapers' reproduction facility, and possibly their last chance to activate the Citadel from within.  Harbinger (Whom I think is the Reaper leader) orders the other Reapers to awaken and begin moving to the galaxy.

Remember, the council still thinks Sovereign was just a Geth warship, very few actually believe the Reapers exist, so getting support will be hard.  Also the Reapers probably will still head to the Citadel first, but it's just going to take longer instead of arriving in a split second, and there is a chance they could be seen and loose the element of surprise.

And for all we know they may still have a few tricks up their...tentacles?

[KalReegar]

Skyblade012 wrote...

Reapers use element zero based technology, and thus their drives will need to discharge. That much is inevitible. How often and in what manner is what is important. Arc discharges into space and throughout their own systems will occur if the charge is allowed to build up enough, but they might well be able to handle that (and it would be bad news for any ships in the area if a Reaper dropped out of FTL discharging two or three years worth of charge buildup into a surrounding fleet).

Further, the drive speed is entirely dependent on the amount of eezo being used. With enough eezo, the Reapers could effectively negate their own mass, allowing near instantaneous travel. With no mass, there is no inertia, nothing at all to counteract any thruster force except friction, and the void between galaxies would be empty enough to make that negligible.

The big problem is that these plans for getting back in wouldn't explain the key of the whole puzzle, which is why they need to use the Citadel.

Knowing the Reapers, they probably have found a way to counteract drive discharge, or use a specialized eezo. The Mass Relays use an eezo core that never seems to deplete even after thousands of years of use.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Oh for love of Quantum Physics.

Dissertations would take more space, and time in here, than you have "time", left on this planet.

[Darkfire85]

What I don't understand is why the Reapers need to activate the Citadel relay in the first place. From what I've been reading, activating one end of a primary relay activates the other; that's why the Council forbade activating dormant relays until their partner could be located, because it could potentially open up to a hostile area of space. I always figured that the Reapers out in dark space were all in hibernation, and needed Sovereign to open the relay and wake them up. Apparently, though, Harbinger has been awake out there the entire time keeping track of the Collectors, so I'm not sure why he can't just activate the relay from their side and start up the invasion. I suppose they could have set it up so that the relay could only be activated from within the Citadel, but that doesn't seem to make much sense since nobody ever figures out that there's one in the first place.

Also, real-time communications from where the Reapers are hibernating don't seem to be any problem (since Harbinger keeps active control of the Collectors) so why did they need a vanguard to begin with? And if they had the actively Reaper-controlled hyper-advanced Collectors at their beck and call, why did Sovereign bother with Saren and the Geth? I'm really a bit annoyed with how they progressed the story in ME2; coming up with a good explanation for the Reaper harvest (reproduction cycle) was good, but they've introduced too many variables that makes Sovereign's existence and the events leading up to the first game seem like they're unnecessary.

Modifié par Darkfire85, 14 février 2010 - 01:19 .

[Myrmedus]

KalReegar wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...

Reapers use element zero based technology, and thus their drives will need to discharge. That much is inevitible. How often and in what manner is what is important. Arc discharges into space and throughout their own systems will occur if the charge is allowed to build up enough, but they might well be able to handle that (and it would be bad news for any ships in the area if a Reaper dropped out of FTL discharging two or three years worth of charge buildup into a surrounding fleet).

Further, the drive speed is entirely dependent on the amount of eezo being used. With enough eezo, the Reapers could effectively negate their own mass, allowing near instantaneous travel. With no mass, there is no inertia, nothing at all to counteract any thruster force except friction, and the void between galaxies would be empty enough to make that negligible.

The big problem is that these plans for getting back in wouldn't explain the key of the whole puzzle, which is why they need to use the Citadel.

Knowing the Reapers, they probably have found a way to counteract drive discharge, or use a specialized eezo. The Mass Relays use an eezo core that never seems to deplete even after thousands of years of use.

I get the feeling the Relays don't use EeZo at all but directly convert Mass into Dark Energy...in otherwords they facilitate the function of EeZo without the need of it. There's also importance in the 'shape' of a Relay, most importantly the two 'prongs' that extend from it. That same 'two prong' design is found on the hind of every Reaper and Sovereign states in ME1 they each have their own Mass Effect drives.

So I believe the main reason for the Reaper's not entering the galaxy directly hitherto is because it's easier, there's substantially less risk involved and more simply they won't lose 'anyone'; that's right, it's often easy to forget that they are essentially sentient beings. If you had to sacrifice 10000 of your soldiers to win a war directly but you could exhaust other options which would yield a much lower casualty weight of course you'd do it.

[Myrmedus]

Darkfire85 wrote...

What I don't understand is why the Reapers need to activate the Citadel relay in the first place. From what I've been reading, activating one end of a primary relay activates the other; that's why the Council forbade activating dormant relays until their partner could be located, because it could potentially open up to a hostile area of space. I always figured that the Reapers out in dark space were all in hibernation, and needed Sovereign to open the relay and wake them up. Apparently, though, Harbinger has been awake out there the entire time keeping track of the Collectors, so I'm not sure why he can't just activate the relay from their side and start up the invasion. I suppose they could have set it up so that the relay could only be activated from within the Citadel, but that doesn't seem to make much sense since nobody ever figures out that there's one in the first place.

The reason the Council forbade randomly turning on Relays is because there's the possibility of another Relay being close by that some distance and potentially hostile species may have activated and can then use to get to Council space; it's not that turning on one Relay activates another but rather that it opens it up as a destination.

Also, real-time communications from where the Reapers are hibernating don't seem to be any problem (since Harbinger keeps active control of the Collectors) so why did they need a vanguard to begin with? And if they had the actively Reaper-controlled hyper-advanced Collectors at their beck and call, why did Sovereign bother with Saren and the Geth? I'm really a bit annoyed with how they progressed the story in ME2; coming up with a good explanation for the Reaper harvest (reproduction cycle) was good, but they've introduced too many variables that
makes Sovereign's existence and the events leading up to the first game seem like they're unnecessary.

Who were they meant to communicate with without Sovereign? Sovereign's presence was more to assess the state of galactic civilization than anything else. As for the Collectors, how would they get to the Citadel? It's true that they were technologically advanced but even the entire Collector Base couldn't have invaded the Citadel. Sovereign wanted an agent that could infiltrate the Citadel and a Spectre was a perfect candidate for that. In addition, if there were species within the Galaxy that were idiotic enough to push for their own end (the Heretics) then why not use them?

What it mainly comes down to is ease, less risk, lower potential casualities and a dose of arrogance.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 14 février 2010 - 01:29 .

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

Rhostadt wrote...

 Does no one read the codex entries?  The ones on the different kinds of relays and the one on FTL Drive Charge explain most of what everyone is confused about: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/FTL  The difference between primary and secondary relays has already been explained in this thread; the Citadel is definitely a primary relay, and so is it's partner (by definition).
The Reapers are out in the galactic void, hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of lightyears from our galaxy.  There's nothing out there for them to discharge their drive cores into; even if their drives are a thousand times more efficient than anything the Council races have.  But what if their drives don't require discharging?  What if their drives are just really fast.  There's absolutely no indication of either thing; it's always implied their technology is just a much more advanced version of Council tech (by their design) like their control of the relays, better energy weapons, and more sophisticated AI.  Also consider:  1) Sovereign used a mass relay to approach the Citadel.  2) If they could've remained effectively hidden beyond the galactic rim without using a super relay they would've just flown a 50,000 year loop with their FTL drives.  They didn't.

It seems the best way to delay the Reaper invasion is to simply blow up the Citadel.  

There may not be any planets or stars out there, but there must be at least a mass relay which connects to the Citadel.  And the wiki page you linked says that space stations can have facilities built into them for discharging FTL drives.

Nevertheless, the power requirements for travelling across dark space by conventional FTL would probably be astronomical.  I'd guess we won't be facing ALL the reapers in 3; maybe Harbinger will canibalize the fuel reserves of his buddies, and lead a small fleet into the Milky Way to try and retake the Citadel and bring the others through the relay before they shut down.

[TheLostGenius]

Keep in mind that the Citadel is completely isolated in its location, the only way to access it is the Mass Relays and the Conduit. The Reapers lost control of the Keepers due to the Protheans. In a sense each civilization/genocide harvest they go through somehow advances the remenants of older species that survive in some limited form.

[davetheboy]

We all base our guesses on the assumption that the Reapers' technology is as advanced as our own. Throughout ME1 and ME2 we can see that their technology is far more sophisticated than our own. We really can't say 'they can't do that, because we can't'. They are better than us. They had 37 billion years to do research, to improve themselves. 100 years ago if you said that it's possible to get thousands people from America to Europe daily, with little cost, you'd be called a psycho. And yet it happens now.

[Yakko77]

Rhostadt wrote... It seems the best way to delay the Reaper invasion is to simply blow up the Citadel.  

Or let them into the Citadel and blow it up and the Reapers with it.

[TheLostGenius]

Don't be surprised if their is two main end game choices in ME3. Going on an insane mission into dark space to defeat the Reapers, or Destroy the citadel, turning the alliance against and you planting bombs on all mass relays. This would in effect create isolation amongst all of the aliens, and their would not longer be inter-galatic war. However the method of destroying the Citadel would be left in the realm of moral quandry.

[Kerberus88]

Champion1 wrote...

Ya, dark space isn't really a trap. I never understood why they said the Reapers were trapped in dark space, since it's just the Galactic Void.
Also, if the Citadel was a Mass Relay, doesn't that mean the Reapers must have another relay out there with them? Why can't they just reprogram where that relay comes out? Sure, it won't be the Citadel anymore, but it's better then taking a few hundred years flying on FTLs to get to the galaxy.

It is a network of Mass Relays. Mass relays can only jump you to two or three other relays, the Reapers only have their mass relay set up for the Citadel. Bye bye that Idea.

Dark space is the space between galaxies.

[PartTimeWizard]

Well, the Reapers will almost surely find a loophole soon enough. Who knows how many relays have not been activated by the Council for fear of meeting some hostile race. They built the relays and know our galaxy better than we do. Besides, Vigil said that Saren was the most visible of Sovereign's allies, but almost surely not the first to be indoctrinated. I think the Reapers still command substantial hidden assets within Council space. Sovereign might've left to its hidden servants the means of activating the Citadel relay, or, they might be actively researching a way to summon back their masters via the Citadel.

[HBC Dresden]

side note: at the ending cutscene with the reapers in dark space, i personally believe they are not flying towards the milky way yet. if you look closely, they only start up/light up and then the camera moves behind them, giving the illusion they are moving.

[screwoffreg]

Dark Energy, the force behind the Relays themselves, may be part of what the Reapers seek to use. Why not just have their servants, the Geth, make a new relay?

[Malanek]

I think its possible that the Reapers are a lot closer than people realise. Where is Harbinger for instance and how did it get there? The Reapers pretty clearly have another way of getting back.

[Missouri Tigers]

1 - In the first game, Vigil explained that Sovereign would stay behind and "monitor" the galaxy.  When an advanced civilization rose to its peak, he would signal for the rest of the reapers to come.

2 - I'm not sure they are close at all.  They looked to me as if they were in dark space and massing for an attack like somebody was about to open the Citadel relay again.