72 réponses à ce sujet

[Thor Rand Al]

So here is a  # of hypothetical questions that's been running around in my head for a while n I decided to go ahead and post it after reading bit's n pieces of other threads.  In the game you can do the dark ritual n if your a female you can have Alistair do the ritual with Morrigan.  Now my questions are how many of you women that have had Alistair do this would want to raise the baby if the opportunity came up?  If you fell in love with him and married him, became his Queen, knowing who the child's mother is, knowing what this child represent's or might represent.  If something was to happen to Morrigan or as some people have said they go n find Morrigan, kill her and/or take the child from her, how many of you would actually consider taking this child and raising/loving this child as your own?  Also knowing that this child maybe the only child you and Alistair may ever be able to have because of the taint.  Or would you do as Isolde did with Alistair n send the child off, knowing of Alistair's childhood n the way he was raised?
Speaking of the taint how many would resent this child because this child isn't from you n Alistair but from a ritual that was done by Morrigan.  Yes you get to keep Alistair but at the same time your being robbed of the chance of ever having a child n here Morrigan comes along n says, hey it is possible to give her a child through a ritual.  Why Morrigan n not me, she gets to have something that's very special but I'm the one that's in love with him, n I'm being robbed of one of the most precious things life can give you.

So with all that said n done who would keep/allow the baby to be with you.

Honestly if I loved Alistair enough I'd more than likely say yes but also honestly I would feel resentment because of the fact that here's this child n it's not even mine but someone else's n I gave Alistair permission to do it.  I can't even give him what someone else has.


Which brings up a question for the devs if they can/would answer.  Is it because Morrigan's a mage that she's able to ensure she's with child, n if that's the case why couldn't this same ritual/spell be done on a female who isn't a mage but want's a child but can't.  Leave out the dark god though n just come up with a spell that would ensure a pregnancy lol.  That's basically what Morrigan's doing in a sense, making sure she can get pregnant plus adding something else in the pot to ensure that the dark-god's soul/spirit/essence is going into the baby.   Damn makes me really curious if the answer is in that grimiore n makes me mad we can't read it lmao.


So anyway's what's your opinion's/view's/thought's on this.

[Addai]

Absolutely my PCs would raise Alistair's baby if that was even an option, (almost) no questions asked.  It's not as if he'd be springing a bastard on you that he had during some fling.  That said, I would have no idea how to raise a god baby. I imagine that presents parenting challenges.

Modifié par Addai67, 13 février 2010 - 09:18 .

[Ramante]

I always miss the option in the conversation with Morrigan why you can't do the ritual (so the Warden gets pregnant). Has probably something to do with the taint, but if she can use magic to get pregnant she should be able to get my FHN pregnant instead of her.

I would not be very happy with accepting the child as my own but considering Alistair's own past I would raise it. Sending his (probably only) child away would be unfair towards him. Though I would force Alistair to put someone else forward as heir.

Damn... I'm using I when I talk about my Warden, maybe I spend to much time in Ferelden... XD

Modifié par Ramante, 13 février 2010 - 09:20 .

[errant_knight]

Well, I made the deal in good faith. Morrigan ensured our lives, and in return, she gets the child. I wouldn't go after her, or try and interfere with her unless she or the child pose a threat. Then I'd kill either or both of them, depending on where the threat lay, and what it was.

As to raising it.... It would depend on what the child turned out to be, and how Alistair felt about it. It's not my child-god-thing, it's his, so it would be up to him and I'd support whatever decision he made. It may have a human body, but it's not really human, so it would also depend on just how human-like it was. It might be that the mages tower would be the only safe-ish place for it.

If it was basically human, and not a child-like time bomb, then sure, if Alistair wanted it, I'd suggest that Wynne take charge of educating it (and watching it like a hawk), and it be raised as a member of the family. But only if that was what Alistair wanted. If he didn't, then where it went would be up to him.

Ramante wrote...

Damn... I'm using I when I talk about my Warden, maybe I spend to much time in Ferelden... XD

Whoops! Me too.

Modifié par errant_knight, 13 février 2010 - 09:31 .

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...

Ramante wrote...

Damn... I'm using I when I talk about my Warden, maybe I spend to much time in Ferelden... XD

Whoops! Me too.

That's what the "edit" button if for . . .

[errant_knight]

ejoslin wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Ramante wrote...

Damn... I'm using I when I talk about my Warden, maybe I spend to much time in Ferelden... XD

Whoops! Me too.

That's what the "edit" button if for . . .

Only if you actually care. If you're just finding something mildly amusing, it's entirely unnecessary.

Modifié par errant_knight, 13 février 2010 - 09:37 .

[Ramante]

errant_knight wrote...
If it was basically human, and not a child-like time bomb, then sure, if Alistair wanted it, I'd suggest that Wynne take charge of educating it (and watching it like a hawk), and it be raised as a member of the family. But only if that was what Alistair wanted. If he didn't, then where it went would be up to him.

If it really is a time bomb you can always tell the mages to make it Tranquil. Alistair would disagree (daddy point of view) but would do it (templar point of view).

errant_knight wrote...

Ramante wrote...

Damn... I'm using I when I talk about my Warden, maybe I spend to much time in Ferelden... XD

Whoops! Me too.

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Ramante wrote...

Damn... I'm using I when I talk about my Warden, maybe I spend to much time in Ferelden... XD

Whoops! Me too.

That's what the "edit" button if for . . .

Only if you actually care. If you're just finding something mildly amusing, it's entirely unnecessary.

*grin* I do it too!

[Gilsa]

I would be thrilled to raise the "child" (quotation marks because even Morrigan says it can't really be called a baby after one night, without elaborating on it, of course) because I really don't think Morrigan has good intentions, that the child is ultimately a means to an end, not a stray kitten she wants to keep. Since my PC used the child as a means to an end for the selfish desire of keeping her beloved, it's her responsibility to keep an eye on the soul of an Old God.

Frankly, she should be more worried about Alistair resenting the PC for talking him into doing it in the first place should anything happen with the child and people start dying as a result because the PC was selfish enough to push for the ritual. The ritual is jumping from the frying pan into the fire, only the consequences will manifest after the cutesy "and we saved teh kingdom!1" cards roll by.

Modifié par Gilsa, 13 février 2010 - 09:41 .

[Harelda]

No. Not in a million years. It's not human, we have no idea what it's going to be like when it grows up and I would not be stupid enough to have something Flemeth wants running about. Even if Morrigan was dead, I know Flemeth will come back. If Flemeth knew the child was Morrigans (and there is no guarentee she couldn't find out) it could cause all sorts of trouble. Flemeth bodysnatching the child of the King? Bad, bad news. If Alistair brought that thing into the castle I would be long gone. Sorry, love does not conqueor all and it certainly wouldn't conqueor this level of dangerous stupidity.

The only thing that'd stop me from hunting the child down is that I would trust Morrigan enough not to go back on her word that the child will not cause problems for Fereldan. And even then it's a shakey trust.

On the other hand, if it were human, Morrigan dead and Alistair would declare it his heir...Sure. All the better for me. I would get to keep my man, dump the child on the hired help and not have to worry about producing an heir myself.

Edit: Huh, that sounded less selfish in my head.

Modifié par Harelda, 13 février 2010 - 09:42 .

[errant_knight]

Ramante wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
If it was basically human, and not a child-like time bomb, then sure, if Alistair wanted it, I'd suggest that Wynne take charge of educating it (and watching it like a hawk), and it be raised as a member of the family. But only if that was what Alistair wanted. If he didn't, then where it went would be up to him.

If it really is a time bomb you can always tell the mages to make it Tranquil. Alistair would disagree (daddy point of view) but would do it (templar point of view).

It might not even be a mage. It's the soul that will give it whatever powers it may have, not it's connection to the fade, so making it Tranquil might not be possible or have any effect, if it was, other than to cut it off from emotion. That might make things even worse.

I have to admit, I'd want to kill it before seeing it made Tranquil. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Brrrrr......

Modifié par errant_knight, 13 février 2010 - 09:51 .

[Phoenix Swordsinger]

Absolutely I would take the child in. I've always liked Morrigan and always end up 100 friends. If something were to happen to her I would definitely step in. It is just a child after all. And if it was my Human Noble, I can't see Alistair objecting. He's just not that kind of guy.

[Phoenix Swordsinger]

Nature vs Nurture?

[Harelda]

Usually I'd say that a bad start in life for a kid can be undone to an extent with love, care and therapy and that just because it had bad parents doesn't mean it'll be a bad person if raised right. So Nuture trumps nature, in my opinion, in real life circumstances.

We're not talking about in real life though, or even a  human child. We're talking about a potentially dangerous creature. It has the soul of an Old God. I don't know what powers might manifest in it, I don't know if Flemeth or Morrigan will ever come back for it, and I don't know if the soul lurking in it will cause it to be dangerous.

It's just too risky, in my opinion, and if the question came up I'd leave. I think that would break any relationship beyond fixing if Alistair actually asked that.

Modifié par Harelda, 13 février 2010 - 10:01 .

[errant_knight]

Harelda wrote...

Usually I'd say that a bad start in life for a kid can be undone to an extent with love, care and therapy and that just because it had bad parents doesn't mean it'll be a bad person if raised right. So Nuture trumps nature, in my opinion, in real life circumstances.

We're not talking about in real life though, or even a  human child. We're talking about a potentially dangerous creature. It has the soul of an Old God. I don't know what powers might manifest in it, I don't know if Flemeth or Morrigan will ever come back for it, and I don't know if the soul lurking in it will cause it to be dangerous.

It's just too risky, in my opinion, and if the question came up I'd leave. I think that would break any relationship beyond fixing if Alistair actually asked that.

While I think caution would definitely be the way to go, I can't see killing it because of potential for evil with no proof that's so. If that was the standard, all children would have to be killed at birth, and the race would die out. Besides, if one sees the 'child' as so dangerous as to need to be killed without assessing it, why would one allow it's creation in the first place. Wouldn't that PC sacrifice themselves to prevent it?

Modifié par errant_knight, 13 février 2010 - 10:09 .

[CalJones]

No. I don't like kids. Morrigan's welcome to the squalling brat. I'd be more likely to send Zevran to find and off the kid so it wouldn't be a threat to the throne (if Alistair was king, that is).

Then again if I intended for Alistair to be king, I'd do the honorable thing and step aside so that he could marry Anora. I never saw the logic in replacing a capable, popular queen - and my Warden would rather remain as such than return to the boredom of courtly gatherings and ghastly dresses.

[Thor Rand Al]

Gilsa wrote...

Frankly, she should be more worried about Alistair resenting the PC for talking him into doing it in the first place should anything happen with the child and people start dying as a result because the PC was selfish enough to push for the ritual. The ritual is jumping from the frying pan into the fire, only the consequences will manifest after the cutesy "and we saved teh kingdom!1" cards roll by.

That's why I left the decision up to Alistair.  I never persuaded him, never demanded him do it or threatened him or even said if you love me then you'll do this.  I came right out told him about the ritual, that it would produce a child, leaving it up to him.  The only thing I said is I think this is the right thing to do.  It's in his hands, he could of said no.

If down the line it does come back n haunt us then I will take responsibility because I'm the 1 that brought it up to him in the first place but at the same time I also left it in his hands.  Yes I had the oportunity to say no I can't do this but so could he have, both of us were being selfish almost by neither one of us wanting to lose the other, this is partially why this ritual is there n of course for Morrigan's own needs (or however someone wants to have the game end.)  I definitely won't tell Alistair this is your mess you clean it up because that's not true.  I will stand beside him n we will tackle this together.  N yes I would take the child under my thumb n raise this child as my own if that's what Alistair wanted because by me asking him to do it n him actually agreeing to do it it's both our responsibilities.



This reminds me of another game I played where it had to deal with whether a child lives or dies because of it's soul.  I let the child live an the child was raised by a mage, whatever happened to that child well there was never another game made for it lmao

[Harelda]

errant_knight wrote...

While I think caution would definitely be the way to go, I can't see killing it because of potential for evil with no proof that's so. If that was the standard, all children would have to be killed at birth, and the race would die out. Besides, if one sees the 'child' as so dangerous as to need to be killed without assessing it, why would one allow it's creation in the first place. Wouldn't that PC sacrifice themselves to prevent it?

 Yes, but the potential damage, death and destruction an Old God can unleash on the world is slightly higher than that of a normal human; I consider the potential problems Morrigans child can cause if Morrigan is no longer around (and that is the only circumstance I can consider Alistair getting to raise the child) to be high enough to warrant killing it outright, just in case.

 As for allowing it to happen in the first place, I trust Morrigan knows what she's doing. I don't believe her actions and intentions come remotely close to the spectrum of good, but I do think she will keep her word that it will never threaten Fereldan and the ritual saved both the life of the Warden and the future King. It was mostly selfish decision, though there were some practical considerations taken into account too. And I felt sorry for Alistair; he's tragic enough without sacrificing himself and thinking that that's better all round.

[Thor Rand Al]

errant_knight wrote...

Harelda wrote...

Usually I'd say that a bad start in life for a kid can be undone to an extent with love, care and therapy and that just because it had bad parents doesn't mean it'll be a bad person if raised right. So Nuture trumps nature, in my opinion, in real life circumstances.

We're not talking about in real life though, or even a  human child. We're talking about a potentially dangerous creature. It has the soul of an Old God. I don't know what powers might manifest in it, I don't know if Flemeth or Morrigan will ever come back for it, and I don't know if the soul lurking in it will cause it to be dangerous.

It's just too risky, in my opinion, and if the question came up I'd leave. I think that would break any relationship beyond fixing if Alistair actually asked that.

While I think caution would definitely be the way to go, I can't see killing it because of potential for evil with no proof that's so. If that was the standard, all children would have to be killed at birth, and the race would die out. Besides, if one sees the 'child' as so dangerous as to need to be killed without assessing it, why would one allow it's creation in the first place. Wouldn't that PC sacrifice themselves to prevent it?

Exactly.  We can't know for sure whether this child will be evil or not.  They don't necessarily say the old god is evil.  The taint is what's turned them.  And if this "child" was actually shown love n understanding n cared for while growing up, that could have a big impact.  Now if it's raised how Morrigan was raised then yes i could see the child being mean on the verge of evil n trying to destroy the world but if the child had a different invironment to live in, one that's positive then yes there's hope for said child.

[SurelyForth]

If Morrigan is dead and/or the one requesting that it be raised by my PC/Alistair, then yes. I would not do the ritual in the first place if I did not trust Morrigan, or thought that the child will be inherently evil or raised to be evil by her. What it comes down to, for me, is that it is the child of a woman my PC genuinely cares about and the man my PC loves; to not raise it and protect it would be almost unthinkable.



Besides, what are the alternatives? Risk letting Flemeth get it, or some crazy cult, or an intelligent darkspawn? For the child's safety, and the safety of the general populace, I think the Warden is the best person to raise it if Morrigan cannot.

[errant_knight]

Harelda wrote...

[...] And I felt sorry for Alistair; he's tragic enough without sacrificing himself and thinking that that's better all round.

We may disagree about the child, but I'm totally with you there. After hearing what Alistair told the Guardian, no PC of mine is ever going to let Alistair sacrifice himself for anything if he/she can prevent it. It just to hard to know if his willingness to do so is a product of thinking that his death isn't much of a loss.

Modifié par errant_knight, 13 février 2010 - 10:42 .

[Thor Rand Al]

Harelda wrote...
 And I felt sorry for Alistair; he's tragic enough without sacrificing himself and thinking that that's better all round.

Another reason why it's so hard playing this particular story because Alistair does think him sacrificing himself is for the best.  Even if you sacrifice yourself instead of him (whether he's king or not) I see it as only making him more bitter n resentful because once again fate took something else away from him.  Alistair really does have the ****ty end of this story.  No wonder why he thinks sacrificing himself is for the best.  One of the reason's why my pc ends up talking to him about the ritual, why I won't sacrifice myself or him is so she can show him that there's more to life then heartache n pain.

[Aynslie]

Well When I did it Morrigan basically considered me to be like a sister to her and seeing as how the ritual saved my life...or rather Alistair's life, I would have no problem raising the baby. The baby is what is allowing you to even be together after the arch-demon is slain. It represents a future for the female warden and Alistair even if you never see the baby. I wouldn't be resentful in anyway knowing that, I would be grateful to the baby. In an abstract way the baby is made from the female warden and Alistair's love (at least in my game). Without such love or trust I don't see Alistair agreeing to the ritual. Now maybe other ppl talk him into it w/o romancing him, but I didn't on my game. We were romanced every time.

[spottyblanket]

My characetr would raise it yes. Besides, whose to say you can't produce a child? You can try 0_0

[Harelda]

spottyblanket wrote...

My characetr would raise it yes. Besides, whose to say you can't produce a child? You can try 0_0

David Gaider has confirmed that two Grey Wardens cannot have a child together. Sorry, God has spoken.