72 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

The old god that it is supposed to be is depicted as male, so a boy would be most fitting.

[Maria Caliban]

Yeah, but I do get tired of god-babies being dudes. I'm hoping for a girl.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 14 février 2010 - 02:15 .

[Phoenix Swordsinger]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Yeah, but I do get tired of god-babies being dudes.

Me too.

[pudi0072000]

My mage would have no issue raising the god!baby if it came down to it. It would entirely depend on whether Alistair wanted to or not, but the man doesn't even know what he wants half the time. She wouldn't resent Alistair or Morrigan or the kid; one of us would be dead, so my mage owes her (and Alistair's) life to Morrigan and Jr. And there's really no telling if it's evil or not - I'm not going to kill it based on an assumption. I'd more worry about the darkspawn trying to find it and corrupt it again, in which case, it might be the kind thing to do to kill it and ensure that it doesn't become tainted again. Also, who's to say that a child, godish or not, doesn't deserve to be loved? I can dig that. (Isn't Urthemiel supposed to be the god of Beauty? What's more beautiful than love, regardless of blood?) /cheesy sentiments

[Thor Rand Al]

Phoenix Swordsinger wrote...

Thor, you realize you really started something here don't you?

Lol it's an interesting topic, n it is just hypothetical anyways.  I know you get that option male or female in post coronation to go looking for Morrigan, n I know some people have said they chose the go after her option, men n women both have said it. This is a what if you did find her or something happened to her topic, n Alistair wanted child, probably more than anything else is to keep an eye on it.  And what better way then to have child under your nose so to speak.

[Thor Rand Al]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Now my questions are how many of you women that have had Alistair do this would want to raise the baby if the opportunity came up?&

Why in Andreste's name would I want to raise Alistair's and Morrigan's child? Several of my friends have managed to spawn off-spring, you don't see me coming over to their house going 'Hai. Kun I haz ur bebe?'

If Morrigan wanted me to be a god-mother to her child, I'd agree, of course. 

This was a what if something happened to Morrigan question n if it fell on you n Alistair (if your in a relationship with him) to raise this child.  Or what if later on down the road Alistair here's wind of Morrigan and child n decides he wants the child to be near him so he can keep an eye on it. 
What better way to make sure the child's not becoming evil n if it does then you guys have a decision to make.  Basically if you talked him into the ritual your just as responsible for the future of child and or Ferelden's as he is. he's more so because he's King. But ultimately he wouldn't of done it if not for the person asking him to do it.

[Sarielle]

RL me? No. I have zero desire for children, particularly ones I don't really feel a responsibility toward.



My PC who romanced Alistair? Yes, without a doubt.

[Thor Rand Al]

SuperMedbh wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
That said, I would have no idea how to raise a god baby. I imagine that presents parenting challenges.

Would bring new meaning to the terrible twos, wouldn't it?

Lmao um ya that would definitely bring a new meaning.
As far as raising child see if Wynne would do it n you know that if child gets out of hand she could always build a magical barricade/playpen lmao

[MEUTRIERE]

I wouldn't raise it.  I wouldn't be able to look my husband's child not by me and be able to love it as my own.  Regardless of whether or not I knew about it, it would just rub me the wrong way.  Not to mention my PC married Alistair and became queen, which poses another problem of publicity.  I would never let the people of Fereldan know I allowed--even encouraged!--my husband, the king, to sleep with an apostate so that she may take the soul of the greatest enemy known to Thedas and raise it under her care, particularly when it was conceived through a mysterious ritual that was initially planned so that her mother, the great Witch of the Wilds, could take over her body.  I just get a bad feeling that wouldn't bode too well with the general populus.

THEN, if you want to take into account the theories that Morrigan may be (spoiler?) Alistair's half-sister, then that just throws another wrench into the machine.  So no, I wouldn't raise Alistair's baby.

As for using the Dark Ritual for yourself, I always saw it as only Morrigan could do it because she was a mage who learned magic from Flemeth, the mage who created the ritual.

[pezwitch]

I adore Alistair but as a Grey Warden none of my characters will ever put him on the throne nor tell him about Morrigan's offer. After meeting Sophia at Warden's Peak they see the harm that having a Grey Warden anywhere near the throne is, and as a Grey Warden they would never knowingly bring an old god which could become corrupted and lead another blight into the world.

Then there are the issues my Dwarf Commoner has with pimping out her boyfriend, forcing him to have sex with someone he hates goes against everything she believes in.

So, none of my characters will ever have to worry about raising Morrigan's baby with Alistair because either Alistair or my character dies.

Totally off topic - Dwarves are my favorite race and starting stories... They are both brilliant, but... I really hate that the PC is blackmailed into choosing the next Dwarven king. I really wish that Kal-Sharok was an option instead of Orzammar. "Orzammar doesn't want to honor its treaties? Fine. I'll see what the leaders of Kal-Sharok have to say."

Modifié par pezwitch, 14 février 2010 - 07:28 .

[MEUTRIERE]

pezwitch wrote...

I really wish that Kal-Sharok was an option instead of Orzammar. "Orzammar doesn't want to honor its treaties? Fine. I'll see what the leaders of Kal-Sharok have to say."

I think the treaties are specifically for Orzammar, not Kal-Sharok.  Plus, Kal-Sharok isn't in (under?) Fereldan, so it'd be a bit harder to get to and convince to help, I imagine.

Edit:  Plus, I found this from the Wiki page.  :3
"However, the few dwarves living there [in Kal-Sharok] are said to be extremely
reclusive and unwilling to re-establish contact with the rest of the
world as well as being embittered towards Orzammar.
"
and have "far less resources than Orzammar and no access to the surface".

On a side note,

pezwitch wrote...

Then there are the issues my Dwarf Commoner has with pimping out her
boyfriend, forcing him to have sex with someone he hates goes against
everything she believes in.

That just seems silly to me, considering the choice is to have sex or die.
One of these things seems to be tha lessa eviiil.

Modifié par MEUTRIERE, 14 février 2010 - 07:36 .

[Thor Rand Al]

MEUTRIERE wrote...

I wouldn't raise it.  I wouldn't be able to look my husband's child not by me and be able to love it as my own.  Regardless of whether or not I knew about it, it would just rub me the wrong way.  Not to mention my PC married Alistair and became queen, which poses another problem of publicity.  I would never let the people of Fereldan know I allowed--even encouraged!--my husband, the king, to sleep with an apostate so that she may take the soul of the greatest enemy known to Thedas and raise it under her care, particularly when it was conceived through a mysterious ritual that was initially planned so that her mother, the great Witch of the Wilds, could take over her body.  I just get a bad feeling that wouldn't bode too well with the general populus.

THEN, if you want to take into account the theories that Morrigan may be (spoiler?) Alistair's half-sister, then that just throws another wrench into the machine.  So no, I wouldn't raise Alistair's baby.

As for using the Dark Ritual for yourself, I always saw it as only Morrigan could do it because she was a mage who learned magic from Flemeth, the mage who created the ritual.

So if you did convince Alistair to do the ritual you wouldn't feel some responsiblilty because when it comes right down to it, you are the 1 that asked Alitair to do it?  It wasn't him coming to you about the ritual, it's you going to him. 
And as far as Flemeth taking over this baby well she's go to get by mommy first n now that mommy knows how Flemeth keeps surviving I seriously doubt she's going to let Flemeth do that.  Morrigan has her own reason's for wanting child, n I believe it has nothing to do with what Flemeth wants.  Morrigan also said if you slay Flemeth that it will weaken her n by the time Flemeth's power is bk up, (I believe she'd have to have another daughter to do this) the god-child will be almost grown n be able to protect Mom n itself.  N if all else fails she (Morrigan) could always go looking for father lol.

As far as the theories, that's all they are.  I seriously doubt Flemeth would allow Morrigan to even go with you let alone do the ritual if there was that chance that Alistair might be her half brother n they concieved a child together.  No you still have the chance of deformities happening n birth defects.  Flemeth nor Morrigan would even chance this. 

Here's another theory then. How do we know that the god-baby, (Urthemial, Dragon of Beauty) was really evil before it got tainted.  Because the Chantry says so.  Again another theory.  Right now the only reason the old-god is evil is because it's been tainted by the darkspawn.  But what Morrigan want's isn't the tainted part, she wants what the old-god was before it got tainted.

What I said was I didn't want do the dark ritual for myself, what I said was Morrigan obviously knows how to increase the chances of her getting pregnant through magical means.   If she can do it for herself then why can't she do it for the female pc without the dark ritual part.




To bad there wasn't a way she could teach another mage or someone else this as a means of tryin to convince the female pc to get her god-baby.  Something like you convince Alistair to do this not only do you guys get to live but I will also give you a potion that will help increase the chances of you having a baby.  LOL I know here I go again with that wishful thinking.  Hey but it's fun throwing theories out there

Modifié par Thor Rand Al, 14 février 2010 - 07:43 .

[Thor Rand Al]

pezwitch wrote...

I adore Alistair but as a Grey Warden none of my characters will ever put him on the throne nor tell him about Morrigan's offer. After meeting Sophia at Warden's Peak they see the harm that having a Grey Warden anywhere near the throne is, and as a Grey Warden they would never knowingly bring an old god which could become corrupted and lead another blight into the world.

What does Sofia n Warden's Peak have to do with having a Grey Warden on the throne. Sofia was taken over by a demon, 1 that Advernus n herself allowed to happen in the first place by summoning them. 
In all actuality that really is the best idea.  Not only do you have a King but 1 that's a Grey Warden also. And 1 that's very recently gone through the Archdemon battle n helped deal with it.  Not only is this good for the Wardens but also gives the people hope.  It also will encourage other people that the Warden's really aren't as bad as some people make them out to be especially if Alistair is a good King n not a tyrant.

[pezwitch]

MEUTRIERE wrote...

On a side note,

pezwitch wrote...

Then there are the issues my Dwarf Commoner has with pimping out her
boyfriend, forcing him to have sex with someone he hates goes against
everything she believes in.

That just seems silly to me, considering the choice is to have sex or die.
One of these things seems to be tha lessa eviiil.

Oh, but they never plan on Alistair dying, there is always the chance Riordan will prevail and if not, they plan on sacrificing themselves.

The old gods aren't tainted until the darkspawn get to them and make them into archdemons, and the darkspawn aren't going anywhere, so the baby god would still be a threat, therefore, nope, not gonna do it.

And death is less evil than tainiting their love.

And on my off topic rant..... One of these days I'm going to refuse to crown a dwarven king and try to do the Landsmeet and after without the damn dwarves. I'll not pay the blackmail and I'll just let them kill themselves over politics.

[pezwitch]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

pezwitch wrote...

I adore Alistair but as a Grey Warden none of my characters will ever put him on the throne nor tell him about Morrigan's offer. After meeting Sophia at Warden's Peak they see the harm that having a Grey Warden anywhere near the throne is, and as a Grey Warden they would never knowingly bring an old god which could become corrupted and lead another blight into the world.

What does Sofia n Warden's Peak have to do with having a Grey Warden on the throne. Sofia was taken over by a demon, 1 that Advernus n herself allowed to happen in the first place by summoning them. 
In all actuality that really is the best idea.  Not only do you have a King but 1 that's a Grey Warden also. And 1 that's very recently gone through the Archdemon battle n helped deal with it.  Not only is this good for the Wardens but also gives the people hope.  It also will encourage other people that the Warden's really aren't as bad as some people make them out to be especially if Alistair is a good King n not a tyrant.

Sophia got involved in politics which led to the Grey Wardens name being blackened and to the Grey Wardens being banished from Fereldan for two hundred years. Politics + Grey Wardens = Bad.

I think that most of Wynn's arguments against love will also serve against making Alistair king. His loyalties would always be divided. If the choice was Fereldan or the Grey Wardens which would he choose? There isn't a good answer to that question, someone is always going to lose and lose big, which is why, in my opinion, he would make a terrible king.

And the Grey Wardens need Alistair more than Fereldan does. Fereldan already has a leader, the Grey Wardens do not.

[speedingpullet]

Would I raise the child...?



I'm really conflicted.



On the one hand, my PC respects and admires Morrigan as much as is possible to do, as another woman.

She realises that the Dark Ritual is actually Morrigans slightly elliptical way of showing love - by giving both my PC and Alistair the gift of life.

I mean, that's a pretty big gift to give someone.

Every time, all I can think of to say is "I think I understand, thank you' coz I get kind of choked up.



On the other hand, she was adamant that I kill Flemeth - and now all of a sudden she's telling me that the Ritual was Flemeth's idea all along?

Wtf? Why are you suddenly so keen to do the bidding of your dead mother?

Dead by my hand, at your request?



So, most of the time I take the gift and consider it given in a spirit of humankindness and not driven by the urge for self service.



It would have to be up to Alistair, really.

On the one hand, his Templar training is going to make him really uncomfortable with the idea of an Old God, even an untainted Old God.



On the other hand, he had a really c**ppy childhood and I can't imagine he'd want any child of his - no matter how Wierd - to feel that it didn't have a home and a family that would accept it.



Maybe send it off to live with the Dalish, or something?

I can't imagine the Mages Circle would be able to protect it from the Templars, and the Chantry are going to have a conniption....

[MEUTRIERE]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

So if you did convince Alistair to do the ritual you wouldn't feel some responsiblilty because when it comes right down to it, you are the 1 that asked Alitair to do it?  It wasn't him coming to you about the ritual, it's you going to him. 

No, I would not.  I'm not really the idealist kind of person, so I guess that plays into the fact that I wouldn't want the child.  From a personal stand point, I would do anything to keep my fiancé alive and it'd be the right thing to do in my mind, every time.  I wouldn't feel guilty about making him do it and I wouldn't feel guilty about conceiving a child, so the 'feeling responsible' thing doesn't really play into whether or not I keep the child.

Thor Rand Al wrote...
And as far as Flemeth taking over this baby well she's go to get by mommy first[...]

Oh, that's not what I meant.  I meant that we don't really know Flemeth's plan for the spell.  It could all just be a trap set out by Flemeth from the very beginning for Maker knows why.  Of course Morrigan could very well be using the spell to take over the child's body, herself.  Who knows? 

Thor Rand Al wrote...
As far as the theories, that's all they are.  I seriously doubt Flemeth would allow Morrigan to even go with you let alone do the ritual if there was that chance that Alistair might be her half brother n they concieved a child together.  No you still have the chance of deformities happening n birth defects.  Flemeth nor Morrigan would even chance this.

Half-siblings aren't as susceptible to deformities--it's all in the genes.  Then again, the people of Thedas don't know about genes yet, so I suppose that's no argument.
I agree that it's just a theory; one I don't necessarily agree with, but still something to think about. 

Thor Rand Al wrote...
Here's another theory then. How do we know that the god-baby, (Urthemial, Dragon of Beauty) was really evil before it got tainted.  Because the Chantry says so.  Again another theory.  Right now the only reason the old-god is evil is because it's been tainted by the darkspawn.  But what Morrigan want's isn't the tainted part, she wants what the old-god was before it got tainted.

I'm not saying what I would think is right/wrong in this case.  I'm looking at it as though I were in my PC's shoes, making me Queen of Fereldan.  As we already know, the people of Fereldan are very religious.  They believe in what the Chantry says, so what they say goes.  Thus, if the Chantry says the Archdemons are the Old Gods, then I don't want the people of Fereldan knowing that their King and Queen participated in a ritual that allowed the Old God to possess the body of a child.

That's just bad for publicity.

Thor Rand Al wrote...
What I said was I didn't want do the dark ritual for myself, what I said was Morrigan obviously knows how to increase the chances of her getting pregnant through magical means.   If she can do it for herself then why can't she do it for the female pc without the dark ritual part.

Oh, forgive me.  I read it wrong.

Thor Rand Al wrote...
To bad there wasn't a way she could teach another mage or someone else this as a means of tryin to convince the female pc to get her god-baby.  Something like you convince Alistair to do this not only do you guys get to live but I will also give you a potion that will help increase the chances of you having a baby.  LOL I know here I go again with that wishful thinking.  Hey but it's fun throwing theories out there

Hell, if there were a way to give my Warden a baby, I'd do it.  Deòridh and Alistair would have some seriously beautiful children.  

pezwitch wrote...
Oh, but they never plan on Alistair dying, there is always the chance
Riordan will prevail and if not, they plan on sacrificing themselves.

Oh right.  I was metagaming. 
I still might want a back-up plan, though.  It's hard to say at this point considering I've never been in my PC's shoes.  I'd be more of a "Ehh, we'll deal with whatever kind of Old-God-demon-child-malevolent-spirit evil we may have released on the world later.  First, let's get married.  :D"

pezwitch wrote...
And death is less evil than tainiting their love. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/unsure.png

I don't see how having sex with a woman to save your own hides so that's there's a love to be had in the end constitutes as 'tainting their love'.  It's not like he's cheating on you or anything.

[Thor Rand Al]

pezwitch wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

pezwitch wrote...

I adore Alistair but as a Grey Warden none of my characters will ever put him on the throne nor tell him about Morrigan's offer. After meeting Sophia at Warden's Peak they see the harm that having a Grey Warden anywhere near the throne is, and as a Grey Warden they would never knowingly bring an old god which could become corrupted and lead another blight into the world.

What does Sofia n Warden's Peak have to do with having a Grey Warden on the throne. Sofia was taken over by a demon, 1 that Advernus n herself allowed to happen in the first place by summoning them. 
In all actuality that really is the best idea.  Not only do you have a King but 1 that's a Grey Warden also. And 1 that's very recently gone through the Archdemon battle n helped deal with it.  Not only is this good for the Wardens but also gives the people hope.  It also will encourage other people that the Warden's really aren't as bad as some people make them out to be especially if Alistair is a good King n not a tyrant.

Sophia got involved in politics which led to the Grey Wardens name being blackened and to the Grey Wardens being banished from Fereldan for two hundred years. Politics + Grey Wardens = Bad.

I think that most of Wynn's arguments against love will also serve against making Alistair king. His loyalties would always be divided. If the choice was Fereldan or the Grey Wardens which would he choose? There isn't a good answer to that question, someone is always going to lose and lose big, which is why, in my opinion, he would make a terrible king.

And the Grey Wardens need Alistair more than Fereldan does. Fereldan already has a leader, the Grey Wardens do not.

Ok I see where your going with Sofia n the Wardens but the King was a tyrant.  But aren't we doing the exact same thing with Loghain as Levi asks us, yes we might be doing it because of the blight but we are doing the same thing.  Yes the Blight, n the darkspawn are the Wardens responsibility but could you honestly sit by n watch someone destroy lives the way it's said the King was.  You see how Behlin rules if you make him king, would you, if you had the power to, try n stop him from destroying peoples lives? Actually that's a bad example, he actually does (whether he realizes it or not, the caste system for example) better lives even if it does cause problems.

Ya Ferelden has a good leader, Alistair. Plus by blood he has more of a right to the throne then Anora.  Plus as Aemon has said, he already know's a lot about ruling n leading by just having to deal with this crap Loghain's done, n dealing with the blight.  Plus he's already seeing how he can help his people just by being where he's been n what he's seen.  And the Grey Wardens do have a leader if both Wardens survived the archdemon.  If not then I believe Alistair can handle both, heck he's got Eamon there if he gets called away.

Sorry I don't like Anora, n I can't trust her to do what's right for Ferelden if it came down to it.  She's already proven that.  She wants that throne no matter the cost but is it really for the good of Ferelden or for herself. She proves that with the elves post-corantion if you let her keep the throne.



But this is way off the original topic lol.

[MEUTRIERE]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Ok I see where your going with Sofia n the Wardens but the King was a tyrant.  But aren't we doing the exact same thing with Loghain as Levi asks us, yes we might be doing it because of the blight but we are doing the same thing.  Yes the Blight, n the darkspawn are the Wardens responsibility but could you honestly sit by n watch someone destroy lives the way it's said the King was.  You see how Behlin rules if you make him king, would you, if you had the power to, try n stop him from destroying peoples lives? Actually that's a bad example, he actually does (whether he realizes it or not, the caste system for example) better lives even if it does cause problems.

Not to butt in, but hell, I'm butting in.

The Grey Wardens are around to defeat the Blight.  That is their one true purpose.  It's their code to remain neutral in politics and the like, even if they don't always follow that.  I think it's made quite clear in the game that they are not heroes or good people, really.  They get the job done, at any cost.  They should really only meddle in politics if it somehow helps their war effort against the Darkspawn.

As for Bhelen, I may not exactly remember his epilogue, but I'm admittedly a huge metagamer, so I've made him King of Orzammar about 7 times out of 10, simply because I think he's a better king.  Of course, that's all subjective.

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Ya Ferelden has a good leader, Alistair. Plus by blood he has more of a right to the throne then Anora.  Plus as Aemon has said, he already know's a lot about ruling n leading by just having to deal with this crap Loghain's done, n dealing with the blight.  Plus he's already seeing how he can help his people just by being where he's been n what he's seen.  And the Grey Wardens do have a leader if both Wardens survived the archdemon.  If not then I believe Alistair can handle both, heck he's got Eamon there if he gets called away.

Alistair is not a good leader; at least, we can imagine he is not from what we have seen.  He is naïve and emotional.  He allows your PC, a new Grey Warden with no leadership experience (in most cases) or even real knowledge of the Grey Wardens, to lead their party.  He admits several times that he doesn't want to be king.  Alistair seems to be the type that would act on his personal feelings, not the feelings of his country, which is obvious from his execution of Teyrn Loghain.  If anything, by making him king, you're just resigning the throne to Eamon, who we all know is the real brains behind the title.

Plus, if Alistair does become leader of the Grey Wardens (although I believe it's rather clear the PC becomes Commander?), then he'd be split between political duties and Grey Warden duties, which we already know are often two completely different things.

[Thor Rand Al]

Thor Rand Al wrote...
And as far as Flemeth taking over this baby well she's go to get by mommy first

MEUTRIERE wrote...
Oh, that's not what I meant. I meant that we don't really know Flemeth's plan for the spell. It could all just be a trap set out by Flemeth from the very beginning for Maker knows why. Of course Morrigan could very well be using the spell to take over the child's body, herself. Who knows?

I have to agree with you on not knowing what Flemeth's plans are cause we don't. We know the ritual was Flemeth's but why she wants the old god that we don't know.

Thor Rand Al wrote...
To bad there wasn't a way she could teach another mage or someone else this as a means of tryin to convince the female pc to get her god-baby. Something like you convince Alistair to do this not only do you guys get to live but I will also give you a potion that will help increase the chances of you having a baby. LOL I know here I go again with that wishful thinking. Hey but it's fun throwing theories out there

MEUTRIERE wrote...
Hell, if there were a way to give my Warden a baby, I'd do it. Deòridh and Alistair would have some seriously beautiful children.

I'd love for there to be a way, that's why in a lot of threads I'm always on this if there was a way to have a baby kick lmao... Dang it if Morrigan can do it then why can't I n not do it the evil way lol

pezwitch wrote...
And death is less evil than tainiting their love.

MEUTRIERE wrote...
I don't see how having sex with a woman to save your own hides so that's there's a love to be had in the end constitutes as 'tainting their love'. It's not like he's cheating on you or anything.

Nor do I see it as cheating especially since I suggested it to him in the first place n as I tell Alistair, I believe it's the right thing to do. For love heck ya. But as Wynne does say, love can make us do stupid n selfish things. Old bat lmao.

Modifié par Thor Rand Al, 14 février 2010 - 09:21 .

[Thor Rand Al]

MEUTRIERE wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Ok I see where your going with Sofia n the Wardens but the King was a tyrant.  But aren't we doing the exact same thing with Loghain as Levi asks us, yes we might be doing it because of the blight but we are doing the same thing.  Yes the Blight, n the darkspawn are the Wardens responsibility but could you honestly sit by n watch someone destroy lives the way it's said the King was.  You see how Behlin rules if you make him king, would you, if you had the power to, try n stop him from destroying peoples lives? Actually that's a bad example, he actually does (whether he realizes it or not, the caste system for example) better lives even if it does cause problems.

Not to butt in, but hell, I'm butting in.

The Grey Wardens are around to defeat the Blight.  That is their one true purpose.  It's their code to remain neutral in politics and the like, even if they don't always follow that.  I think it's made quite clear in the game that they are not heroes or good people, really.  They get the job done, at any cost.  They should really only meddle in politics if it somehow helps their war effort against the Darkspawn.

Then what's the whole point of the game, yes to fight the darkspawn but by throwing a civil war in the midst of this isn't that saying that it's no longer feasible for the wardens to stay neutral.  We are not able to stay neutral anymore.  That went out the door when Loghain betrayed the King.

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Ya Ferelden has a good leader, Alistair. Plus by blood he has more of a right to the throne then Anora.  Plus as Aemon has said, he already know's a lot about ruling n leading by just having to deal with this crap Loghain's done, n dealing with the blight.  Plus he's already seeing how he can help his people just by being where he's been n what he's seen.  And the Grey Wardens do have a leader if both Wardens survived the archdemon.  If not then I believe Alistair can handle both, heck he's got Eamon there if he gets called away.

MEUTRIERE wrote...
Alistair is not a good leader; at least, we can imagine he is not from what we have seen.  He is naïve and emotional.  He allows your PC, a new Grey Warden with no leadership experience (in most cases) or even real knowledge of the Grey Wardens, to lead their party.  He admits several times that he doesn't want to be king.  Alistair seems to be the type that would act on his personal feelings, not the feelings of his country, which is obvious from his execution of Teyrn Loghain. 

That is the reason why you choose to harden him because it helps him to overcome the downfalls you mentioned.  That's why that choice is there. So he will stand up for himself and be the King that Ferelden needs.  If you harden him he says he wants it, in fact if you harden him n when you get to the landsmeet n you say you want to talk to Alistair before you decide, he says "I hope your choice is clear here."  Meaning he wants you to MAKE HIM King.
His path is set, he knows what he wants, what he's got to do, he will do his duty.  He even says if Eamon n the landsmeet want him to be King then he will do it for Ferelden.

Modifié par Thor Rand Al, 14 février 2010 - 09:39 .

[MEUTRIERE]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Then what's the whole point of the game, yes to fight the darkspawn but by throwing a civil war in the midst of this isn't that saying that it's no longer feasible for the wardens to stay neutral.  We are not able to stay neutral anymore.  That went out the door when Loghain betrayed the King.

Uhmwhut?
Loghain destroyed the Grey Wardens and was barring any way for them to defeat the Blight.  They needed the throne because they needed the troops to fight the Blight.  It wasn't just because they thought Loghain was mean and didn't like him.  Mind you, Alistair may have had some ulterior motives in killing him, but for the most part, it was necessary to take the throne.

Thor Rand Al wrote...

That is the reason why you choose to harden him because it helps him to overcome the downfalls you mentioned.  That's why that choice is there. So he will stand up for himself and be the King that Ferelden needs.  If you harden him he says he wants it, in fact if you harden him n when you get to the landsmeet n you say you want to talk to Alistair before you decide, he says "I hope your choice is clear here."  Meaning he wants you to MAKE HIM King.
His path is set, he knows what he wants, what he's got to do, he will do his duty.  He even says if Eamon n the landsmeet want him to be King then he will do it for Ferelden.

I didn't harden Alistair because I thought the dialogue option was very immersion-breaking for my PC, so he still tends to be a whiny ****.  Without prior knowledge, Alistair is going to be a terrible king.

I plan to harden him in my next playthrough (though it may be different as a male?) and I'll argue about the hardening then.  Until then, I'll take your word on that path that maybe he'll be a better king, but by no means do I think he'll still be a good king.  People don't just grow up and make a complete 180 in regards to personality through one conversation.

But that's assuming he's a real person and not just a video game character.  I understand that the threads of human nature do not run so deep in 20-40 hour games.

[Thor Rand Al]

MEUTRIERE wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Then what's the whole point of the game, yes to fight the darkspawn but by throwing a civil war in the midst of this isn't that saying that it's no longer feasible for the wardens to stay neutral.  We are not able to stay neutral anymore.  That went out the door when Loghain betrayed the King.

Uhmwhut?
Loghain destroyed the Grey Wardens and was barring any way for them to defeat the Blight.  They needed the throne because they needed the troops to fight the Blight.  It wasn't just because they thought Loghain was mean and didn't like him.  Mind you, Alistair may have had some ulterior motives in killing him, but for the most part, it was necessary to take the throne.

Thor Rand Al wrote...

That is the reason why you choose to harden him because it helps him to overcome the downfalls you mentioned.  That's why that choice is there. So he will stand up for himself and be the King that Ferelden needs.  If you harden him he says he wants it, in fact if you harden him n when you get to the landsmeet n you say you want to talk to Alistair before you decide, he says "I hope your choice is clear here."  Meaning he wants you to MAKE HIM King.
His path is set, he knows what he wants, what he's got to do, he will do his duty.  He even says if Eamon n the landsmeet want him to be King then he will do it for Ferelden.

I didn't harden Alistair because I thought the dialogue option was very immersion-breaking for my PC, so he still tends to be a whiny ****.  Without prior knowledge, Alistair is going to be a terrible king.

I plan to harden him in my next playthrough (though it may be different as a male?) and I'll argue about the hardening then.  Until then, I'll take your word on that path that maybe he'll be a better king, but by no means do I think he'll still be a good king.  People don't just grow up and make a complete 180 in regards to personality through one conversation.

But that's assuming he's a real person and not just a video game character.  I understand that the threads of human nature do not run so deep in 20-40 hour games.

As far as staying neutral in this game for Wardens, it's not possible.  Every quest you do you have to pick a side.  Starting with the Throne right down to whether you side with the elves or the werewolves.  Back when the Warden's where at their strongest you didn't have to but now that's no longer an option as you can tell with the treaties.  Unfortunately you can't show them the treaty n say you're going to help me or else.  No you got to help them with their problems hence where you gotta start taking sides.


As for Alistair, when you do play him hardened you will see a difference when it comes to the landsmeet n the conversation you have with him afterwards.