107 réponses à ce sujet

[Demx]

Have you tried telling him that you would rape him in celebration of your victory over the darkspawn.

[_- Songlian -]

Helios969 wrote...

- Songlian - wrote...

For a strange reason, I find this thread very funny.

*grabs some popcorn from the people above*

I find it utterly fascinating.  Hell, the sociologists should throw out their experiments and questionnaires and just come and read the various threads at this site. The infinite complexity to human thought and emotion is available for the taking.

You read too much into it. 

[MishenNikara]

Seesh...what are you people telling Zevran? I got him to 90+ way too easy in pretty much all my games o.O

[FierachEredasSoulchiou]

Zev betrayed you because you obviously weren't sexy enough.

[AnniLau]

maxernst wrote...

 I haven't come across that many gifts for him and he can be touchy in conversation sometimes.

http://dragonage.wik...ifts_for_Zevran

And, to the OP, if he fought against you, you must not have been very nice to him. Except for throwing a few gifts his way, I pretty much ignored him on my first playthrough and all he did was refuse to fight on either side.

Modifié par AnniLau, 14 février 2010 - 11:45 .

[Addai]

Helios969 wrote...
 Plus I find every other companion more useful as party members, so he pretty much tends the campfire from start to finish.

Haven't run a PC rogue yet, have you?  A rogue, properly set up and equipped, can run circles around your warriors in terms of killing power.

Honestly, Zevran has to be the best kept secret in the game.

[Addai]

Helios969 wrote...

Well she does seem to be trying to reform her life and live a more meaningful one.  Zev talked about enjoying the killing - the satisfaction of feeling his blade sink into his victim(s).  Shudder.  That's more than a bit disturbing.  I might even be okay with the murdering part if he were honorable enough to do so mano a mano, but the sneaking up on a person when they sleep to stab them through the heart just seems wrong - dishonorable.  Splitting hairs with morality, I guess.

Leliana also wasn't a slave.  She grew up with advantages, and choices.  She speaks pretty casually about using torture and how seduction is usually preferable because it works better.  (Would put a new spin on things if I heard that as a male PC romancing her...)  Zevran also is trying to start a new life, he is just at a different point of that transition than Leliana.  Both of them contemplate returning to it.  Leliana even tells Zevran that they have a lot in common, and she rather warmly welcomes him into your party.  Taking any one of these characters at face value is a mistake, IMO.  There's much more going on with all of them.  Personally I find the cold-bloodedness that you discover in Leliana even creepier for the fact that she has lied about it and puts up a sweet, goody-two-shoes exterior.  Zevran, OTOH, is ruthlessly honest.

You don't have to like the things he says, BTW.  My PCs usually challenge him at various points ("have you ever killed an innocent?"  "that sounds like an excuse" etc.) and it actually yields more interesting conversations IMO.  He does not give big approval drops for those sorts of honest questions.

Modifié par Addai67, 14 février 2010 - 06:11 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Naughty Bear wrote...

I made sure he was loyal. Hell we were good friend's (unfortunatly not).

Does this happen to everyone or can i convince him to stay loyal? He was useless i guess, but he sounds like Puss in Boots so that is an immediate awesome +10 for him.

Little scawny bastard, i wished i could of tortured him and hear him squeal like a little girl. Oh and if camera's existed there (magic exists in the game so why not camera's?) then i would take pictures and send them to every member of his family of him being skinned alive.

And then i will ****** on his grave.

Best posting about Zevran ever. I just can't bring myself to trust him either. I don't know if it is the leather and chains fetish or the fact he tried to kill me.

[Naughty Bear]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Naughty Bear, didn't you talk about torturing Zevran in an earlier thread?

That might of been me yes.

I spend loads of money on weapons, daggers and armour just so he survives.

But then out comes Zevrans boyfriend. I should of just ripped his balls off and shoved it up his arse and maybe a few of his little daggers, then faceplant his smug face into a pile of burning coals.

Leliana is too cheerfull and happy for my liking.

Modifié par Naughty Bear, 14 février 2010 - 12:27 .

[Creature 1]

Siradix wrote...

Have you tried telling him that you would rape him in celebration of your victory over the darkspawn.

Ravish, not rape!  His response doesn't sound unwilling. 

[ejoslin]

Naughty Bear wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Naughty Bear, didn't you talk about torturing Zevran in an earlier thread?

That might of been me yes.

I spend loads of money on weapons, daggers and armour just so he survives.

But then out comes Zevrans boyfriend. I should of just ripped his balls off and shoved it up his arse and maybe a few of his little daggers, then faceplant his smug face into a pile of burning coals.

Leliana is too cheerfull and happy for my liking.

Ok, to make Zevran survivable, you don't have to spend much on armor.  Just add a tactic that has him drop into stealth if his health drops below 90.  If he is dying and not your biggest damage dealer, you're building him wrong, especially if you've given him good daggers.  With momentum and coup de grace and paralyze runes, you should be getting lightening fast hits for between 70-90 most of the time with him.

Reading up about strength/dex rogues may help you.  

[Sabriana]

There's a gay elf in DA:O? Where?

Maybe my PC should ask her boyfriend Zevran about that. He might know.

Right now my PC is busy listening to Leliana telling her how much she enjoyed being a bard, the hunt, the seductions, the manipulations, so it'll have to wait.

Luckily my PC is all better. Her boyfriend Zevran saved her butt several times over in the werewolves lair, wiping the floor with all kinds of skeletons, shadow-wolves, arcane horrors and such.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

There's a gay elf in DA:O? Where?
Maybe my PC should ask her boyfriend Zevran about that. He might know.
Right now my PC is busy listening to Leliana telling her how much she enjoyed being a bard, the hunt, the seductions, the manipulations, so it'll have to wait.
Luckily my PC is all better. Her boyfriend Zevran saved her butt several times over in the werewolves lair, wiping the floor with all kinds of skeletons, shadow-wolves, arcane horrors and such.

Yeh, Zevran should be insane damage and he shouldn't be dying -- even if you're on a console or don't like using a respec mod on a PC, if you build him to his strengths, he's fabulous.  And if you can respec (cunning rogues are the best), you really have no excuse.

Rogues are crazy damage, no matter what.  Whenever I read about Zevran or Leliana being useless, I /facepalm.  They're very good, but not if you expect to be able to play them like warriors instead of using them as rogues -- characters who can put out insane damage but who are wearing light or medium (if not cunning) armor.

[Helios969]

 

Addai67 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

Well she does seem to be trying to reform her life and live a more meaningful one.  Zev talked about enjoying the killing - the satisfaction of feeling his blade sink into his victim(s).  Shudder.  That's more than a bit disturbing.  I might even be okay with the murdering part if he were honorable enough to do so mano a mano, but the sneaking up on a person when they sleep to stab them through the heart just seems wrong - dishonorable.  Splitting hairs with morality, I guess.

Leliana also wasn't a slave.  She grew up with advantages, and choices.  She speaks pretty casually about using torture and how seduction is usually preferable because it works better.  (Would put a new spin on things if I heard that as a male PC romancing her...)  Zevran also is trying to start a new life, he is just at a different point of that transition than Leliana.  Both of them contemplate returning to it.  Leliana even tells Zevran that they have a lot in common, and she rather warmly welcomes him into your party.  Taking any one of these characters at face value is a mistake, IMO.  There's much more going on with all of them.  Personally I find the cold-bloodedness that you discover in Leliana even creepier for the fact that she has lied about it and puts up a sweet, goody-two-shoes exterior.  Zevran, OTOH, is ruthlessly honest.

You don't have to like the things he says, BTW.  My PCs usually challenge him at various points ("have you ever killed an innocent?"  "that sounds like an excuse" etc.) and it actually yields more interesting conversations IMO.  He does not give big approval drops for those sorts of honest questions.

Leliana isn't the one that betrays your character if you don't kiss her behind.  I don't really care about their pasts.  All the characters are products of their past environments - just like in real life.  Not a one of them is a saint by any stretch, yet it comes down to who will do the right thing when the very survival of the races are at stake.  I've gave him the benefit of the doubt first go around and he turned out to be worm.  And the work that goes into making him loyal is not worth all the corny, cliché dialogue.

[Sabriana]

No, she just tries to kill you outright if you make a decision that doesn't sit well with her.

[ejoslin]

Helios969 wrote...

Leliana isn't the one that betrays your character if you don't kiss her behind.  I don't really care about their pasts.  All the characters are products of their past environments - just like in real life.  Not a one of them is a saint by any stretch, yet it comes down to who will do the right thing when the very survival of the races are at stake.  I've gave him the benefit of the doubt first go around and he turned out to be worm.  And the work that goes into making him loyal is not worth all the corny, cliché dialogue.

Hmmm, I've actually had Leliana try to kill my character -- at 100 love no less.

Edit: Not everyone likes every character for sure.  I've gotten a lot of flack, for instance, for not liking Wynne very much.  But I also understand why people do like her.  I also understand why someone wouldn't like Zevran.  But even if you don't like him, you should acknowledge that there is more to the character than what appears at first blush. 

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 février 2010 - 03:08 .

[Helios969]

Addai67 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...
 Plus I find every other companion more useful as party members, so he pretty much tends the campfire from start to finish.

Haven't run a PC rogue yet, have you?  A rogue, properly set up and equipped, can run circles around your warriors in terms of killing power.

Honestly, Zevran has to be the best kept secret in the game.

And yet me and my 3 inferior companions annihilated  Zev and his party of rogues who had numbers and surprise, not to mention traps in the ambush.  Honestly, I thought it was one of the easiest parts of the game to defeat.

In all these dialogues it's becoming increasingly clear that generally there is a definite disconnect between female and male players of DAO as it relates to Zev and Leliana.

[ejoslin]

Helios969 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...
 Plus I find every other companion more useful as party members, so he pretty much tends the campfire from start to finish.

Haven't run a PC rogue yet, have you?  A rogue, properly set up and equipped, can run circles around your warriors in terms of killing power.

Honestly, Zevran has to be the best kept secret in the game.

And yet me and my 3 inferior companions annihilated  Zev and his party of rogues who had numbers and surprise, not to mention traps in the ambush.  Honestly, I thought it was one of the easiest parts of the game to defeat.

In all these dialogues it's becoming increasingly clear that generally there is a definite disconnect between female and male players of DAO as it relates to Zev and Leliana.

It is a very easy fight, for sure.  But if while you have Zevran or Leliana in your party, they're not huge damage dealers, the fault is YOURS, not the character's.  Because as rogues they should be the best single target damage in your group, aside from the PC of course, but maybe even more than the PC depending on class and build.

[Helios969]

ejoslin wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

Leliana isn't the one that betrays your character if you don't kiss her behind.  I don't really care about their pasts.  All the characters are products of their past environments - just like in real life.  Not a one of them is a saint by any stretch, yet it comes down to who will do the right thing when the very survival of the races are at stake.  I've gave him the benefit of the doubt first go around and he turned out to be worm.  And the work that goes into making him loyal is not worth all the corny, cliché dialogue.

Hmmm, I've actually had Leliana try to kill my character -- at 100 love no less.

She'll only do that if you're doing something remarkably despicable is my guess.  I've had no problems with her in any of my play throughs aside from the lying about her past.

[Sabriana]

A dalish/chantry-hating mage/dwarf would have no connection to the object that has her turning on them. And what if the PC actually wanted to stop the Chantry from becoming even more powerful? She/he might even see it as a good deed. However, it doesn't suit the lying, ex-spy/killer/seducer/manipulator turned goody two shoes out of necessity, so she simply turns on the PC and tries to murder her/him.

[ejoslin]

Ok, the point is, she WILL turn on your character given the right circumstances, no matter what her approval -- and the act, whether or not it's despicable, depends very much on your character's point of view. Just like Zevran WILL turn on your character given the right circumstances.  And if he likes you even a little, it won't happen.

Funny thing, run with Leliana and Zevran enough in your party, and you'll hear how Leliana thinks she and Zevran are a lot alike. Zevran's main concern in that conversation was that she at least would give her prey clean kills. Once she said she at least tried to, he agreed then, that they actually may be a lot alike.

Edit: yes

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 février 2010 - 03:21 .

[Helios969]

ejoslin wrote...

Ok, the point is, she WILL turn on your character given the right circumstances, no matter what her approval -- and the act, whether or not it's despicable, depends very much on your character's point of view. Just like Zevran WILL turn on your character given the right circumstances.  And if he likes you even a little, it won't happen.

Edit: yes

No, Zevran WILL turn on you no matter what if you don't get his approval high enough.

ejoslin wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...
 Plus I find every other companion more useful as party members, so he pretty much tends the campfire from start to finish.

Haven't run a PC rogue yet, have you?  A rogue, properly set up and equipped, can run circles around your warriors in terms of killing power.

Honestly, Zevran has to be the best kept secret in the game.

And yet me and my 3 inferior companions annihilated  Zev and his party of rogues who had numbers and surprise, not to mention traps in the ambush.  Honestly, I thought it was one of the easiest parts of the game to defeat.

In all these dialogues it's becoming increasingly clear that generally there is a definite disconnect between female and male players of DAO as it relates to Zev and Leliana.

It is a very easy fight, for sure.  But if while you have Zevran or Leliana in your party, they're not huge damage dealers, the fault is YOURS, not the character's.  Because as rogues they should be the best single target damage in your group, aside from the PC of course, but maybe even more than the PC depending on class and build.

Well, the truth is more often than not my party is made of Leliana, (for her lockpicking skills,) Sten or Alistair, Morrigan or Wynne, (if I'm not playing a mage.)  Leliana is capable if you max out dual wielding attributes (I suppose Zev would be too.)  So, 2 fighters, 1 rogue, 1 mage.  Sometimes I'll leave out the mage if I know close quarters fighting will be prevalent.  I always have at least one rogue to get at the booty.

When it comes to playing these types of games, I'm not particularly imaginative.  I'm a charge in and beat the holy snot out of my foes kind of guy.  I'm far more interested in the evolving story than killing enemies, and if not for the former I wouldn't bother playing.

[Phoenix Swordsinger]

Zevran I found one of the easiest to gain loyalty from. Even just as friends. Actually I find Wynne the hardest. By Landsmeet I always have everyone at 100, except Wynne who is in high 90's.

Leliana will turn on you? How does THAT happen?

[Sabriana]

No, Leliana will turn on you no matter what in the situation I just mentioned. You can be in 100 love and she will turn on you.

Zevran will not turn on you in that situation if he was treated at least decently. All you have to do is be polite, and give him some gifts. I give all of them their gifts, including Leliana, so why not Zevran? If he's in the 'warm' zone, he'll fight for the PC. If he's in the 'interested' zone, he will leave but not fight against her. His explanation for that can be had back in camp. If he's at 'adore' he will stay and fight for her.

So yes, it matters how he is treated, and how much he trusts the PC to actually help him get away from his former life.

Why in heck should he trust his future and his life to a PC who abuses/ignores and insults him? That makes little sense. If he feels as if he is of little value to the PC, why should he take the risk of trusting the she will actually help him and protect him from the Crows?

Fact is, Leliana had a choice in life, and if she doesn't like a certain action, she will try to kill the PC, no matter what approval rating she has.

Fact is that Zevran never had a choice in his life, and he will not betray the PC if he trusts her and feels good about his eventually gaining freedom through her.

[ejoslin]

Helios969 wrote...

Well, the truth is more often than not my party is made of Leliana, (for her lockpicking skills,) Sten or Alistair, Morrigan or Wynne, (if I'm not playing a mage.)  Leliana is capable if you max out dual wielding attributes (I suppose Zev would be too.)  So, 2 fighters, 1 rogue, 1 mage.  Sometimes I'll leave out the mage if I know close quarters fighting will be prevalent.  I always have at least one rogue to get at the booty.

When it comes to playing these types of games, I'm not particularly imaginative.  I'm a charge in and beat the holy snot out of my foes kind of guy.  I'm far more interested in the evolving story than killing enemies, and if not for the former I wouldn't bother playing.

Leliana shines as an archer as she gets the very best bow in the game.  She can be a cunning/dex archer, which in the later game will mean that she will be hitting between 300 - 800 every minute or so if spec'ed correctly.  She will be able to interrupt spells if you have a nasty caster.  In fact, if you have her stealth up to a fight and use arrow of slaying on the mage at the very start, it can make the difference between a difficult fight and a cakewalk.

I love the story as well.  I like the way that you have to get to know the characters.  People will like some of the characters more than others -- but all of them are far deeper than they first appear.  I respect that a lot of people don't like Zevran -- but I've seen guys on here as well who had Zev solidly in friendzone really like him as well.  He's a survivor first and foremost -- he knows one way of living, and it has served him quite well (far better than any other city elf you see in the game, really, aside from the Warden).  Given a chance, he'll change.  The difference between the change in him and the change in say, Leliana or Alistair, is it actually comes from himself rather than a pivotal conversation.  But the change also has a lot to do with how the warden relates to him.

Whatever, if you choose to dismiss him, you are missing a story element with incredible depth.  But that obviously is your choice, and one you may prefer if you just do not like him.