107 réponses à ce sujet

[Helios969]

Phoenix Swordsinger wrote...

Zevran I found one of the easiest to gain loyalty from. Even just as friends. Actually I find Wynne the hardest. By Landsmeet I always have everyone at 100, except Wynne who is in high 90's.
Leliana will turn on you? How does THAT happen?

I'm not sure, but I think I read somewhere that if you desecrate the "Sacred Ashes" she will.

[ejoslin]

Helios969 wrote...

Phoenix Swordsinger wrote...

Zevran I found one of the easiest to gain loyalty from. Even just as friends. Actually I find Wynne the hardest. By Landsmeet I always have everyone at 100, except Wynne who is in high 90's.
Leliana will turn on you? How does THAT happen?

I'm not sure, but I think I read somewhere that if you desecrate the "Sacred Ashes" she will.

Yes, if she's in the party, she will try to kill you for it (it's not prevention, as the deed is done when she turns).  And it doesn't matter what her approval is.  

[Sabriana]

Yes, it is the 'Ashes'. A dalish/dwarf would have no connection to them whatsoever. They are important only for chantry adherents. Heck, even a mage who hates the chantry would see their destruction as a very good thing.

[Helios969]

ejoslin wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

Well, the truth is more often than not my party is made of Leliana, (for her lockpicking skills,) Sten or Alistair, Morrigan or Wynne, (if I'm not playing a mage.)  Leliana is capable if you max out dual wielding attributes (I suppose Zev would be too.)  So, 2 fighters, 1 rogue, 1 mage.  Sometimes I'll leave out the mage if I know close quarters fighting will be prevalent.  I always have at least one rogue to get at the booty.

When it comes to playing these types of games, I'm not particularly imaginative.  I'm a charge in and beat the holy snot out of my foes kind of guy.  I'm far more interested in the evolving story than killing enemies, and if not for the former I wouldn't bother playing.

Leliana shines as an archer as she gets the very best bow in the game.  She can be a cunning/dex archer, which in the later game will mean that she will be hitting between 300 - 800 every minute or so if spec'ed correctly.  She will be able to interrupt spells if you have a nasty caster.  In fact, if you have her stealth up to a fight and use arrow of slaying on the mage at the very start, it can make the difference between a difficult fight and a cakewalk.

I love the story as well.  I like the way that you have to get to know the characters.  People will like some of the characters more than others -- but all of them are far deeper than they first appear.  I respect that a lot of people don't like Zevran -- but I've seen guys on here as well who had Zev solidly in friendzone really like him as well.  He's a survivor first and foremost -- he knows one way of living, and it has served him quite well (far better than any other city elf you see in the game, really, aside from the Warden).  Given a chance, he'll change.  The difference between the change in him and the change in say, Leliana or Alistair, is it actually comes from himself rather than a pivotal conversation.  But the change also has a lot to do with how the warden relates to him.

Whatever, if you choose to dismiss him, you are missing a story element with incredible depth.  But that obviously is your choice, and one you may prefer if you just do not like him.  

I did my 3rd time through.  My original point was that he's just not rewarding enough to bother.  Wynne is much like that in the approval department, though I like her.  It's like real life: those you admire or respect you will work to develop a relationship with - and those you don't, you won't.

[Sabriana]

True enough. It's your choice. I feel the other way around. I don't have anything against Leliana, really, but she is my camp sitter in my play-throughs.

She rubs me the wrong way just like Zevran does to you, I guess. It's quite astounding that pixel-people bring out such strong emotions

[ejoslin]

Helios969 wrote...

I did my 3rd time through.  My original point was that he's just not rewarding enough to bother.  Wynne is much like that in the approval department, though I like her.  It's like real life: those you admire or respect you will work to develop a relationship with - and those you don't, you won't.

For you, he's not.  I don't like Wynne for sure.  I liked her my first play through; my second not so much as I got the "romance talk" with her regarding Zevran ,which has a far uglier tone than the one regarding Alistair and the one regarding Leliana.  Then I took her to the gauntlet with my city elf and wanted to tear off her face.  So she sits at camp usually.

Again, you don't like Zevran.  You may not see what other admire about him, his absolute ability to survive and a remarkable inner strength -- he is by far the strongest of the companions (heh, and a lot of people don't like the fact that wherever you take him, he speaks up -- I do like that).  That's fine.  But you have to keep in mind you're talking about opinion, not fact, and many here will disagree with you.

There's a lot to like about the character.  That's not saying you HAVE to like him.  I think it's a complement to the writers that people end up with such strong feelings about the various characters.  But Zevran, if you really don't want him to betray you, just give him his gifts.  I'm sure you give everyone else their gifts.  That's all you need to do.

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 février 2010 - 03:59 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Hell! Saw the thread title and figured we have yet another adolescent poster who needed their diapers changed. Which means I can't share in the popcorn.



Pretty much everyone has covered the bases on Zevran, so I will only add a little. You obviously know jack about building and playing rogues, otherwise, you would not be losing Zevran so much. He's a rogue, not a tank. You know that little talent rogues possess, called STEALTH? It's your friend. use it. And that tactics button isn't for looks, either. It might behoove you to actually set it up properly.



Zevran, in all my playthroughs, is lethal, even when i don't spend a dime on his gear. He usually ends up dealing more damage than the warriors, and doesn't take much damage. It really doesn't take much thought to turn him into a killing machine, if you have any inkling of just what a rogue is suppsoed to do.



If he's turning on you, that's your own fault. It really doesn't take much effort to get his approval up, even without sex or flirting, to the warm range where he won't turn on you. Gold bars, silver bars, and leather accessories. Especially his beloved Antivan boots, which will get you a fat approval gain. I've played romance or not with him, and have dumped him in several playthroughs, yet strangely enough...gasp...I've never once had him turn on me or have had to kill him! And I've even told him off a few times about his love of being an assassin, when I was playing a "moraly upright" character!



But of course, the real reason we have these juvinile "gay elf threads" is because of the number of adolescent boys who simply can't handle the concept of a pansexual male character. Leliana, who is bisexual, certainly gets no hate for that, because of course, in the minds of little boys, bi chicks are ok, bi men need to die Ted Bundy style.



Since others have brought the popcorn, I'll bring the asprin, because this facepalming is giving me a migraine. :/

[Helios969]

Sabriana wrote...

True enough. It's your choice. I feel the other way around. I don't have anything against Leliana, really, but she is my camp sitter in my play-throughs.
She rubs me the wrong way just like Zevran does to you, I guess. It's quite astounding that pixel-people bring out such strong emotions

Most definitely.  By far the most remarkable game I have ever played.  Because of the human emotion aspect.  If all games were like this one, they'd probably find my dehydrated, malnourished corpse sprawled across my keyboard.

[Helios969]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Hell! Saw the thread title and figured we have yet another adolescent poster who needed their diapers changed. Which means I can't share in the popcorn.

Pretty much everyone has covered the bases on Zevran, so I will only add a little. You obviously know jack about building and playing rogues, otherwise, you would not be losing Zevran so much. He's a rogue, not a tank. You know that little talent rogues possess, called STEALTH? It's your friend. use it. And that tactics button isn't for looks, either. It might behoove you to actually set it up properly.

Zevran, in all my playthroughs, is lethal, even when i don't spend a dime on his gear. He usually ends up dealing more damage than the warriors, and doesn't take much damage. It really doesn't take much thought to turn him into a killing machine, if you have any inkling of just what a rogue is suppsoed to do.

If he's turning on you, that's your own fault. It really doesn't take much effort to get his approval up, even without sex or flirting, to the warm range where he won't turn on you. Gold bars, silver bars, and leather accessories. Especially his beloved Antivan boots, which will get you a fat approval gain. I've played romance or not with him, and have dumped him in several playthroughs, yet strangely enough...gasp...I've never once had him turn on me or have had to kill him! And I've even told him off a few times about his love of being an assassin, when I was playing a "moraly upright" character!

But of course, the real reason we have these juvinile "gay elf threads" is because of the number of adolescent boys who simply can't handle the concept of a pansexual male character. Leliana, who is bisexual, certainly gets no hate for that, because of course, in the minds of little boys, bi chicks are ok, bi men need to die Ted Bundy style.

Since others have brought the popcorn, I'll bring the asprin, because this facepalming is giving me a migraine. :/

Tsk, tsk, such blanket animosity.  I guess we should like him because you do.  Okay, you're right.  Zev is the greatest.

[Sabriana]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Hell! Saw the thread title and figured we have yet another adolescent poster who needed their diapers changed. Which means I can't share in the popcorn.

Pretty much everyone has covered the bases on Zevran, so I will only add a little. You obviously know jack about building and playing rogues, otherwise, you would not be losing Zevran so much. He's a rogue, not a tank. You know that little talent rogues possess, called STEALTH? It's your friend. use it. And that tactics button isn't for looks, either. It might behoove you to actually set it up properly.

Zevran, in all my playthroughs, is lethal, even when i don't spend a dime on his gear. He usually ends up dealing more damage than the warriors, and doesn't take much damage. It really doesn't take much thought to turn him into a killing machine, if you have any inkling of just what a rogue is suppsoed to do.

If he's turning on you, that's your own fault. It really doesn't take much effort to get his approval up, even without sex or flirting, to the warm range where he won't turn on you. Gold bars, silver bars, and leather accessories. Especially his beloved Antivan boots, which will get you a fat approval gain. I've played romance or not with him, and have dumped him in several playthroughs, yet strangely enough...gasp...I've never once had him turn on me or have had to kill him! And I've even told him off a few times about his love of being an assassin, when I was playing a "moraly upright" character!

But of course, the real reason we have these juvinile "gay elf threads" is because of the number of adolescent boys who simply can't handle the concept of a pansexual male character. Leliana, who is bisexual, certainly gets no hate for that, because of course, in the minds of little boys, bi chicks are ok, bi men need to die Ted Bundy style.

Since others have brought the popcorn, I'll bring the asprin, because this facepalming is giving me a migraine. :/

I love your post. I bolded the part that most likely applies to 95 % of the Zevran-haters. The funny thing is, that  Zevran states that he prefers women, and Leliana states that she prefers women. So the one who could be called 'gay' is actually Leliana. However, she's a girl, and apparently, it's okay to be 'gay' woman.

The other thing that bothers me a lot is that Zevran's romance (male or female PC) can be turned off completely right off the bat. Leliana keeps thinking that my PC is the love of her life, even though my FemWarden tried to give her the most neutral answers she could find. My PC just shrugs and tells Leliana once again that there is no love affair, and then moves on.

Now imagine Zevran was that glitched for the straight male PC. Oh the outcry. Oh the screaming and yelling. It would explode off the forums.

Romanced or not, if treated decently and given his gifts, just like the other NPC companions, will result in Zevran not turning on the PC. He never turned on mine, not as a friend, not as a love interest. His approval drops are minimal, even when told that the PC does definitely NOT share his views on assassinations.

[Addai]

Helios969 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...
 Plus I find every other companion more useful as party members, so he pretty much tends the campfire from start to finish.

Haven't run a PC rogue yet, have you?  A rogue, properly set up and equipped, can run circles around your warriors in terms of killing power.

Honestly, Zevran has to be the best kept secret in the game.

And yet me and my 3 inferior companions annihilated  Zev and his party of rogues who had numbers and surprise, not to mention traps in the ambush.  Honestly, I thought it was one of the easiest parts of the game to defeat.

In all these dialogues it's becoming increasingly clear that generally there is a definite disconnect between female and male players of DAO as it relates to Zev and Leliana.

a) Companions level with you.  For game balance they couldn't make Zevran level 15 while the rest of you are level 10 or whatever.  I am talking about relative damage-dealing and usefulness in a party.  A rogue will run circles, literally, around a warrior.  It's proven stats-wise, this is not just fangirl squee.  Zevran's default set-up is dex rogue.  Level him and equip him accordingly, and he is a killing machine.

Zevran was trying to muck up the Warden assassination.  It's part of his character story.  Really, if your PC is clever they will see this after hearing Zevran's story, especially if Leliana is in the party to inform you about the Crows' legendary reputation (speaking from professional experience, heh).  No master assassin would use half-wit mercenaries in such a clumsy ambush while the Warden is surrounded by allies.  Now, I will grant you that Taliesin could have done better.

Modifié par Addai67, 14 février 2010 - 04:25 .

[Helios969]

Hasn't this thread evolved far beyond the "gay" aspect of the original poster. I could really care less about that. Of all the issues I have with Zev, that's the least of them.

[Phoenix Swordsinger]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Hell! Saw the thread title and figured we have yet another adolescent poster who needed their diapers changed. Which means I can't share in the popcorn.

Pretty much everyone has covered the bases on Zevran, so I will only add a little. You obviously know jack about building and playing rogues, otherwise, you would not be losing Zevran so much. He's a rogue, not a tank. You know that little talent rogues possess, called STEALTH? It's your friend. use it. And that tactics button isn't for looks, either. It might behoove you to actually set it up properly.

Zevran, in all my playthroughs, is lethal, even when i don't spend a dime on his gear. He usually ends up dealing more damage than the warriors, and doesn't take much damage. It really doesn't take much thought to turn him into a killing machine, if you have any inkling of just what a rogue is suppsoed to do.

If he's turning on you, that's your own fault. It really doesn't take much effort to get his approval up, even without sex or flirting, to the warm range where he won't turn on you. Gold bars, silver bars, and leather accessories. Especially his beloved Antivan boots, which will get you a fat approval gain. I've played romance or not with him, and have dumped him in several playthroughs, yet strangely enough...gasp...I've never once had him turn on me or have had to kill him! And I've even told him off a few times about his love of being an assassin, when I was playing a "moraly upright" character!

But of course, the real reason we have these juvinile "gay elf threads" is because of the number of adolescent boys who simply can't handle the concept of a pansexual male character. Leliana, who is bisexual, certainly gets no hate for that, because of course, in the minds of little boys, bi chicks are ok, bi men need to die Ted Bundy style.

Since others have brought the popcorn, I'll bring the asprin, because this facepalming is giving me a migraine. :/

If I bring the beer does that mean the juvies have to go away?

[darkshadow136]

lol what do you expect from a gay elf with a bad accent.

[ejoslin]

THE most surprising thing in this thread for me so far, in truth, is learning that Skadi is a closet Zevran fangirl! WELCOME!

Edit: There is a lot of information out there on rogue builds and tactics.  I strongly suggest using them just because it's so much fun watching a rogue do that insane damage.  When I see these huge numbers (71, 93, 65, 101) just flying up from the mobs as they DIE, it's fun to watch, especially since it's so fast with a properly built rogue. 

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 février 2010 - 04:29 .

[Sabriana]

Helios969 wrote...

Hasn't this thread evolved far beyond the "gay" aspect of the original poster. I could really care less about that. Of all the issues I have with Zev, that's the least of them.

I don't think Skadi aimed that at you, Helios. I'm pretty sure it was aimed at the OP.
I'm also pretty sure the OP posts like this on purpose, to either stir things up, or get a good laugh, or both. I've seen other posts of his/hers that have quite a mature sound. Unless I'm fooled by a similar screen-name, which I doubt.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Helios969 wrote...

Tsk, tsk, such blanket animosity.  I guess we should like him because you do.  Okay, you're right.  Zev is the greatest.

That wasn't animosity. You really do not wish to see what I consider "animosity".

My post was not to make you like Zevran, I could care less if you do. My post was to point out that the Zevran haters do so for petty, hypocritical reasons that are really immature. I've yet to see a Zevran hater actually post on more rational, thought-out reasons why they dislike him so. The really are no different than the "Alistair is a whiny baby" crowd, or Oghren is a "stupid drunk" gang. That and the fact that they lack the basic understanding of the whole rogue class.

@Sabriana: Totally agree, especially on leliana. Zevran is very much straight and upfront in turning the romance on/off. No problem. But leliana has stealth loved me so many damned times to my very straight female characters, it is so annoying. Hell, I even told her a couple times she is a FRIEND, only to suddenly discover that she's flipping out on me about romancing Zev or Ali. A religous, psychologically unstable stalker bisexual assassin bard who basically creeps up on you unwittingly in the romance department: fine. "Yeah, dude, that's HAWT, bi assassin chicks, yeah!". But the pansexual elven assassin who is extremely upfront with his intentions and gives you the option of accepting or telling him off with no real problems: "Ewww, he likes butsecks, he's a greasy gay, kill him! Kill the queer elf!"

Even when I dump him, I enjoy his friendship, banter, and ability to slay things mercilessly. I've never killed Zevran once, and I do not plan to, even for the experience. the game wouldn't be the same without his adoration of Wynne's magical bosom and his endearing little bromance with Oghren.

[Addai]

Helios969 wrote...

Hasn't this thread evolved far beyond the "gay" aspect of the original poster. I could really care less about that. Of all the issues I have with Zev, that's the least of them.

Was it not you who mentioned being homophobic?  Apologies if not.  But, it's hard not to come to the conclusion that people avoid the character, or won't take it seriously, because they fear bisexual cooties.  And it is indeed puzzling to some of us that there are no such qualms about Leliana.

I did like Leliana's character at first, and Wynne's, but I find after numerous playthroughs that the opinions of Morrigan and Zevran and Sten are much easier to deal with than their syrupy preachiness.

[Phoenix Swordsinger]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

Tsk, tsk, such blanket animosity.  I guess we should like him because you do.  Okay, you're right.  Zev is the greatest.

That wasn't animosity. You really do not wish to see what I consider "animosity".

My post was not to make you like Zevran, I could care less if you do. My post was to point out that the Zevran haters do so for petty, hypocritical reasons that are really immature. I've yet to see a Zevran hater actually post on more rational, thought-out reasons why they dislike him so. The really are no different than the "Alistair is a whiny baby" crowd, or Oghren is a "stupid drunk" gang. That and the fact that they lack the basic understanding of the whole rogue class.

@Sabriana: Totally agree, especially on leliana. Zevran is very much straight and upfront in turning the romance on/off. No problem. But leliana has stealth loved me so many damned times to my very straight female characters, it is so annoying. Hell, I even told her a couple times she is a FRIEND, only to suddenly discover that she's flipping out on me about romancing Zev or Ali. A religous, psychologically unstable stalker bisexual assassin bard who basically creeps up on you unwittingly in the romance department: fine. "Yeah, dude, that's HAWT, bi assassin chicks, yeah!". But the pansexual elven assassin who is extremely upfront with his intentions and gives you the option of accepting or telling him off with no real problems: "Ewww, he likes butsecks, he's a greasy gay, kill him! Kill the queer elf!"

Even when I dump him, I enjoy his friendship, banter, and ability to slay things mercilessly. I've never killed Zevran once, and I do not plan to, even for the experience. the game wouldn't be the same without his adoration of Wynne's magical bosom and his endearing little bromance with Oghren.

* Inner laughter*

[Addai]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
A religous, psychologically unstable stalker bisexual assassin bard who basically creeps up on you unwittingly in the romance department: fine. "Yeah, dude, that's HAWT, bi assassin chicks, yeah!". But the pansexual elven assassin who is extremely upfront with his intentions and gives you the option of accepting or telling him off with no real problems: "Ewww, he likes butsecks, he's a greasy gay, kill him! Kill the queer elf!"

Even when I dump him, I enjoy his friendship, banter, and ability to slay things mercilessly. I've never killed Zevran once, and I do not plan to, even for the experience. the game wouldn't be the same without his adoration of Wynne's magical bosom and his endearing little bromance with Oghren.

LOL  You have quite a way with words, my dwarven friend.

[Sabriana]

Addai67 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

Hasn't this thread evolved far beyond the "gay" aspect of the original poster. I could really care less about that. Of all the issues I have with Zev, that's the least of them.

Was it not you who mentioned being homophobic?  Apologies if not.  But, it's hard not to come to the conclusion that people avoid the character, or won't take it seriously, because they fear bisexual cooties.  And it is indeed puzzling to some of us that there are no such qualms about Leliana.

I did like Leliana's character at first, and Wynne's, but I find after numerous playthroughs that the opinions of Morrigan and Zevran and Sten are much easier to deal with than their syrupy preachiness.

Bi-sexual cooties? Syrupy preachiness?

Nail, meet head. Head, meet nail.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

[quote]ejoslin wrote...

THE most surprising thing in this thread for me so far, in truth, is learning that Skadi is a closet Zevran fangirl! WELCOME!



Closet? hahaha! Not really! I do love Zevy. I am partial to Alistair. That doesn't stop me from adoring the kinky elf and his quirks as well. Believe me, it pains me to break up with him if I'm playing a character that must do so. And in some playthroughs, namely the dwarf ones, Zev is the only man for my girl. (We both know why....that kiss......melt). it's one big reason I dislike Wynne. She refuses to offer her magical bosom up for him to cry on. I wish i could order her to do so. Stupid old bat.

I really hate the fact that certain individuals can't get past his sexuality, ignoring the many other aspects of him. He is a complex character, and he does possess a very interesting morality. Looking at what he approves of and disapproves of in certain quests, one can see that he does have a heart and does find certain things really morally objectionable. And he is fatalistically loyal.

[ejoslin]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Closet? hahaha! Not really! I do love Zevy. I am partial to Alistair. That doesn't stop me from adoring the kinky elf and his quirks as well. Believe me, it pains me to break up with him if I'm playing a character that must do so. And in some playthroughs, namely the dwarf ones, Zev is the only man for my girl. (We both know why....that kiss......melt). it's one big reason I dislike Wynne. She refuses to offer her magical bosom up for him to cry on. I wish i could order her to do so. Stupid old bat.

I really hate the fact that certain individuals can't get past his sexuality, ignoring the many other aspects of him. He is a complex character, and he does possess a very interesting morality. Looking at what he approves of and disapproves of in certain quests, one can see that he does have a heart and does find certain things really morally objectionable. And he is fatalistically loyal.

*grin* Teasing you!  And yes, I agree.  It drives me crazy that people write him off without giving the characte a lot more credit to the depth that is really there.  I can understand someone not liking him, but usually the reasons are because they never got to know the character and just hate what is on the surface. 

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 février 2010 - 04:44 .

[Cuddlezarro]

Sabriana wrote...

Yes, it is the 'Ashes'. A dalish/dwarf would have no connection to them whatsoever. They are important only for chantry adherents. Heck, even a mage who hates the chantry would see their destruction as a very good thing.

you dont even destroy them you just poor some blood on them

and if you poor the dragons blood of them and then proceed to kill Kolgrim and the dragon you get stuck with the standard ending where the chantry announces they found the ashes and people come far and wide to take part of their healing properties...

[Helios969]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

Tsk, tsk, such blanket animosity.  I guess we should like him because you do.  Okay, you're right.  Zev is the greatest.

That wasn't animosity. You really do not wish to see what I consider "animosity".

My post was not to make you like Zevran, I could care less if you do. My post was to point out that the Zevran haters do so for petty, hypocritical reasons that are really immature. I've yet to see a Zevran hater actually post on more rational, thought-out reasons why they dislike him so. The really are no different than the "Alistair is a whiny baby" crowd, or Oghren is a "stupid drunk" gang. That and the fact that they lack the basic understanding of the whole rogue class.

@Sabriana: Totally agree, especially on leliana. Zevran is very much straight and upfront in turning the romance on/off. No problem. But leliana has stealth loved me so many damned times to my very straight female characters, it is so annoying. Hell, I even told her a couple times she is a FRIEND, only to suddenly discover that she's flipping out on me about romancing Zev or Ali. A religous, psychologically unstable stalker bisexual assassin bard who basically creeps up on you unwittingly in the romance department: fine. "Yeah, dude, that's HAWT, bi assassin chicks, yeah!". But the pansexual elven assassin who is extremely upfront with his intentions and gives you the option of accepting or telling him off with no real problems: "Ewww, he likes butsecks, he's a greasy gay, kill him! Kill the queer elf!"

Even when I dump him, I enjoy his friendship, banter, and ability to slay things mercilessly. I've never killed Zevran once, and I do not plan to, even for the experience. the game wouldn't be the same without his adoration of Wynne's magical bosom and his endearing little bromance with Oghren.

I find it ironic that you display the same narrow-minded views of those you lambast.

Addai67 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

Hasn't this thread evolved far beyond the "gay" aspect of the original poster. I could really care less about that. Of all the issues I have with Zev, that's the least of them.

Was it not you who mentioned being homophobic?  Apologies if not.  But, it's hard not to come to the conclusion that people avoid the character, or won't take it seriously, because they fear bisexual cooties.  And it is indeed puzzling to some of us that there are no such qualms about Leliana.

I did like Leliana's character at first, and Wynne's, but I find after numerous playthroughs that the opinions of Morrigan and Zevran and Sten are much easier to deal with than their syrupy preachiness.

I stated I was mildly so.  My sister is gay and I've known many gay men over the course of my life and had no problem talking and getting along with them.  But that's not to say the prospect doesn't make make feel uncomfortable.  And as a heterosexual man, I have no interest in pursuing such in this game.  Obviously I like Morrigan and Leliana for that reason.  If that makes me close-minded, then so be it.  I tend to interact and behave in these games as I do in real life.