565 réponses à ce sujet

[PSUHammer]

Daneres wrote...

Toroi wrote...

It surprises my how much EA is blamed for what people are disappointed in this expansion. EA doesn't write the story, or decide that only one companion is returning, and its the dwarf that almost no one cares about - its all Bioware on that. I am one of the many that are rather disappointed with what will be missing in the expansion, but let's put the credit or blame where it belongs, on Bioware.

I was excited to hear about Awakenenings, thinking I could continue my adventures with some of my beloved companions, but my excitement is pretty much gone. And Gaider's comment that "you can't just actively pursue" your romances in Awakenings just means nothing. Let's say I live in San Diego, then take a job in San Francisco. I tell my girlfriend that I'm moving for work, I'll be busy so don't bother coming with me, calling or writing - we can still be boyfriend and girlfriend, we just won't actively pursue our relationship. We can pick things up again when/if I move back to San Diego. Yeah, that'd go over well.

lol No, I don't imagine that would go over well at all. Interesting analogy and well to the point.

Not sure this is a good analogy.  You are at war in the game.  I have family members who are off to war and essentially have put their lives on hold while they are there.  Also, since this is a medieval setting, consider the Crusades.  If you were a knight with a family and went off to Crusade in the Middle East, you were gone for (sometimes) years with little or no contact with your wife, family or loved ones.  I think this is what the idea is with Awakenings....they said the game won't FORGET your romance options or your choices, it will just be "on hold" from advancing while you are off "crusading" against the blight.

I am looking forward to the expansion.

[PSUHammer]

J0hnnyx187 wrote...

I didnt see Bioware respond in this post anywhere yet it has the bioware logo underneath this post. Cause im really interested in what bioware has to say to all these complaints. Because i share them with everyone.

Why should they care?  The game isn't out yet so complaints are kind of silly at the moment.  Besides, no matter WHAT they do, people will complain so it becomes a pointless endevor.  Let the vocal minority gripe and moan, if there are real issues, they will eventually rise to the top and I am sure they will respond, as they always have.

[bluewolv1970]

Hammer6767 wrote...

J0hnnyx187 wrote...

I didnt see Bioware respond in this post anywhere yet it has the bioware logo underneath this post. Cause im really interested in what bioware has to say to all these complaints. Because i share them with everyone.

Why should they care?  The game isn't out yet so complaints are kind of silly at the moment.  Besides, no matter WHAT they do, people will complain so it becomes a pointless endevor.  Let the vocal minority gripe and moan, if there are real issues, they will eventually rise to the top and I am sure they will respond, as they always have.

with all do respect with the VARIETY of issues that people have with this expansion while any one issue may be the minority, the sum of all the issues may be the majority -  having said that however - I dot think arbitrarily deciding to not  play the game is a bit extreme - but cancelling a preorder and waiting to see what the reviews and fan opinion is would be both wise and warranted

[PSUHammer]

Absolutely...I think EVERYONE should wait to buy a game until after reading reviews, etc. Otherwise, you are buying into the unknown.

[J0hnnyx187]

No, I meant doesnt the blue bioware logo under this post, mean a bioware administrator had responded somewhere in the topic? And I was saying i couldnt find the post anywhere in it. Because i was interested in reading they're response to the complaints many share.

[ChandlerL]

The presence of the Bioware logo underneath the post is there to let you know there is a Bioware response present and also to help you find it. Click the Bioware logo and it should take you directly to the post.

Modifié par ChandlerL, 19 février 2010 - 04:50 .

[Nial Black-Knee]

Well, Im a bit disapointed. At this point I don't really see this expansion as a continuation. Certainly not for my Human noble (who loses his pet that he has grown up with). Or for any of my other 4 characters that supposedly went adventuring with some of their companions at the end of the main story. ( guess they all died in the last six months.) It just seems to me like poor story telling. I will probably buy it, because the adventure will prolly be decent.

But, for those saying it's an expansion, don't get upset. HELLO, this expansion costs almost as much if not as much as a stand alone game.

One things for sure. I wont be buying anymore wimpy DLC, nor will I buy another CE. I'll stick with the generic stuff. That way I wont need to get upset about my money being wasted. Oh, and I am soooo glad I waited to buy Osterguard(spelling) I was going to get it before Awakenings came out. Not going to happen now.

[bluewolv1970]

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

Awakening is an expansion pack - like "Hordes of the Underdark", the last one we did. Most romances in original campaigns don't carry forward into expansion packs (in fact, almost none do). I'm glad we can finally clear that up because people were assuming that in Awakening we were carrying all of the romances forward. I don't know where that expectation came from. As Gaider has said elsewhere, we certainly aren't retconning those romances. They happened, they are a part of your character's life. But you're very busy in Awakening tackling some serious problems. And long-distance communication in Ferelden isn't exactly on the 3G network.

except that hou actually had new romances in them, several in a fact, and you got to carry over all of your equipment - not to mention that hou WASN"T the same character from the original neverwinter nights campaign at all but a continuation of the shadows of undretide character - shouldn't people from bioware knwo these things

Modifié par bluewolv1970, 19 février 2010 - 06:54 .

[grieferbastard]

Honestly? I look at it like an expansion on the game world, not precisely the character.

DA:O was 120+ hours of gameplay. A long, involved story arc that ends with your character either making the ultimate sacrifice or not. I figure it will be continued in DA:2 - which will be out in a little over a year now. Awakenings is an expansion, not a sequal. Think of it like adding in sideways not length-wise. We're also starting to really see the downside of all the voice-acting, not everyone is always going to be an option going forward.

As an expansion pack the available market for who will buy it is inherently smaller than the people who bought the original game. This means it is inherently less cost-effective than producing a full game. Especially for things like voice acting which are larger, set costs.

So the real question is, since there is no way to viably make DLC or expansions (or even full games for that matter) that are going to please everyone, do you just not bother? It's a genuine question. Since there are some inherent limitations to DLC and expansions, especially in games with so many fluid choices as DA:O, should they just not do it? Or should they do it and try to change how the industry works. Make DLC a little more main stream, appeal to a larger audience and be a safer investment for the publisher and thus more likely to warrant a bigger budget going forward?

Unfortunately there's not a way to make a perfect expansion or DLC that's as good or better than a full game. This isn't some evil plan to destroy civilization. It's not BioWare sitting around, eating small kittens and thinking of ways they can ruin your game experience. I'm pretty jazzed about it. I'm not looking at it like a straight continuation for my characters story but a side adventure he's going on between DA:O and DA2. I figure half of DA:2 will be talking Morrigan into getting back into shape. I figure she's really let herself go after giving birth to an ancient Tevinter god. Tucked under ponytail, only wears sweatpants and slippers, only magic she uses now is turning porridge into turkey legs.

[bluewolv1970]

grieferbastard wrote...

Honestly? I look at it like an expansion on the game world, not precisely the character.

DA:O was 120+ hours of gameplay. A long, involved story arc that ends with your character either making the ultimate sacrifice or not. I figure it will be continued in DA:2 - which will be out in a little over a year now. Awakenings is an expansion, not a sequal. Think of it like adding in sideways not length-wise. We're also starting to really see the downside of all the voice-acting, not everyone is always going to be an option going forward.

As an expansion pack the available market for who will buy it is inherently smaller than the people who bought the original game. This means it is inherently less cost-effective than producing a full game. Especially for things like voice acting which are larger, set costs.

So the real question is, since there is no way to viably make DLC or expansions (or even full games for that matter) that are going to please everyone, do you just not bother? It's a genuine question. Since there are some inherent limitations to DLC and expansions, especially in games with so many fluid choices as DA:O, should they just not do it? Or should they do it and try to change how the industry works. Make DLC a little more main stream, appeal to a larger audience and be a safer investment for the publisher and thus more likely to warrant a bigger budget going forward?

Unfortunately there's not a way to make a perfect expansion or DLC that's as good or better than a full game. This isn't some evil plan to destroy civilization. It's not BioWare sitting around, eating small kittens and thinking of ways they can ruin your game experience. I'm pretty jazzed about it. I'm not looking at it like a straight continuation for my characters story but a side adventure he's going on between DA:O and DA2. I figure half of DA:2 will be talking Morrigan into getting back into shape. I figure she's really let herself go after giving birth to an ancient Tevinter god. Tucked under ponytail, only wears sweatpants and slippers, only magic she uses now is turning porridge into turkey legs.

 the solution would have been to make the expansion a new campaign with a new character much like shadows of undrentide had a new character from the orignal neverwinter nights campaign - the problem is doing a half ass version of continuing your character from dragon age origins by disallowing dlc content, or retconning endings, or arbitrarily ending romances - all these things detract from the character we built - if you cannot successfully carry over the character YOU created then the  expansion should simply be a new character

Modifié par bluewolv1970, 19 février 2010 - 07:21 .

[bluewolv1970]

Nial Black-Knee wrote...

Well, Im a bit disapointed. At this point I don't really see this expansion as a continuation. Certainly not for my Human noble (who loses his pet that he has grown up with). Or for any of my other 4 characters that supposedly went adventuring with some of their companions at the end of the main story. ( guess they all died in the last six months.) It just seems to me like poor story telling. I will probably buy it, because the adventure will prolly be decent.

But, for those saying it's an expansion, don't get upset. HELLO, this expansion costs almost as much if not as much as a stand alone game.

One things for sure. I wont be buying anymore wimpy DLC, nor will I buy another CE. I'll stick with the generic stuff. That way I wont need to get upset about my money being wasted. Oh, and I am soooo glad I waited to buy Osterguard(spelling) I was going to get it before Awakenings came out. Not going to happen now.

exactly

[MaxQuartiroli]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

Awakening is an expansion pack - like "Hordes of the Underdark", the last one we did. Most romances in original campaigns don't carry forward into expansion packs (in fact, almost none do). I'm glad we can finally clear that up because people were assuming that in Awakening we were carrying all of the romances forward. I don't know where that expectation came from. As Gaider has said elsewhere, we certainly aren't retconning those romances. They happened, they are a part of your character's life. But you're very busy in Awakening tackling some serious problems. And long-distance communication in Ferelden isn't exactly on the 3G network.

except that hou actually had new romances in them, several in a fact, and you got to carry over all of your equipment - not to mention that hou WASN"T the same character from the original neverwinter nights campaign at all but a continuation of the shadows of undretide character - shouldn't people from bioware knwo these things

except that he forgot something called "Throne of Baal".. which was a BW xpac for a BW game... or better... for the most loved BW game ever until DAO...
 

[A Puzzled Mind]

Wait, so is my marriage to the queen magically dissolved/

[bluewolv1970]

A Puzzled Mind wrote...

Wait, so is my marriage to the queen magically dissolved/

yes

[Nial Black-Knee]

Hmmm......pay 40$ for 15 hours of game time? Heh....who are you trying to con Bioware. I'll wait till it's in the bargain bin. Thank you very much.



Oh and for the record, Bioware made a TON of money on DA:O. They sold 3.2 million copies. Times that times $60-$80 per copy. They should be giving us this for free. I will not pay for anymore worthless DLC

[TheMadCat]

Nial Black-Knee wrote...

Hmmm......pay 40$ for 15 hours of game time? Heh....who are you trying to con Bioware. I'll wait till it's in the bargain bin. Thank you very much.

Oh and for the record, Bioware made a TON of money on DA:O. They sold 3.2 million copies. Times that times $60-$80 per copy. They should be giving us this for free. I will not pay for anymore worthless DLC

Oh? So retailers are charity businesses now? They kindly sell EA games for zero profit? I swear the stupidity and ignorance on this forum is amazing.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 20 février 2010 - 12:30 .

[elearon1]

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

 .... I'm glad we can finally clear that up because people were assuming that in Awakening we were carrying all of the romances forward. I don't know where that expectation came from. As Gaider has said elsewhere, we certainly aren't retconning those romances. They happened, they are a part of your character's life. But you're very busy in Awakening tackling some serious problems. And long-distance communication in Ferelden isn't exactly on the 3G network.

And will you have reasonable explanations for why the npcs who agreed to spend their lives with your character and help them rebuild the Grey Wardens or follow them on adventure have suddenly stepped out of the picture?  If you drop me a letter from Leliana in the game telling me she is getting close to uncovering mystery X that the two of you became embroiled in and she hopes to see you soon; or Zev leaves a message with a contact letting you know he's getting close to completing that assassination you sent him on and looks forward to seeing you again, then I can be satisfied that there is a reasonable excuse for their absence ... but if they are simply missing and you are expected to continue your adventures without them I am going to be highly disappointed.  We hear a great deal about how our decisions are supposed to shape our DA experiences, but if our romance decisions are being ignored - not retconned but acknowledged in no way whatesoever - then you are telling us that the only decisions which really matter are the one's you already planned for us.

[elearon1]

TheMadCat wrote...

Oh? So retailers are charity businesses now? They kindly sell EA games for zero profit? I swear the stupidity and ignorance on this forum is amazing.  

I don't think anyone is actually saying this; even the people speaking out of frustration.  What they are saying is the price seems steep, being 2/3 or more of what you paid for the original game and getting you only 1/4 the content.  Me, I will pay 40 bucks for 20+ hours of gameplay, as $2 an hour isn't a bad deal - as anyone who has seen a movie recently can attest - but if the game is much shorter than that I am starting to feel ripped off.

I think you need to back off and realize people speaking out of frustration and anger is not the same thing as them speaking out of stupidity; and trust me, I have zero tolerance for stupidity myself, so I don't make excuses for it.

[TheMadCat]

Actually that is exactly what Nial said. Mind you I blasted him for saying EA makes $60-$80 per copy sold, not for saying Awakening is overpriced.

They sold 3.2 million copies. Times that times $60-$80 per copy.

[elearon1]

TheMadCat wrote...

Actually that is exactly what Nial said. Mind you I blasted him for saying EA makes $60-$80 per copy sold, not for saying Awakening is overpriced.

They sold 3.2 million copies. Times that times $60-$80 per copy.

Well, you do have to take into account why people say things ... he was not likely saying they should be giving Awakening away because he believed it, but because he was feeling frustrated that they were charging too much for the dlcs.  Mind you, if he comes back on and says "Yes, they should be giving up free product." I'll back up your previous statement.

As for the price of DA - realizing they obviously don't make what the stores are charging - I don't see the price as having been overmuch for what we got ... I do, however, feel that they may be coming at the marketing for Awakening and some of their other downloadable content from the perspective that "We charged you less for DA than it was worth, so now you should feel obligated to pay inflated prices for the expansion material" - which doesn't sit well with me.  If that is their reasoning I would rather they had released half of Awakening at 50 bucks, then another 5 hours of gameplay every month thereafter for 5 bucks a chunk.

[Cutlass Jack]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Absolutely...I think EVERYONE should wait to buy a game until after reading reviews, etc. Otherwise, you are buying into the unknown.

Yup after reading how DLC, my romance, or even my 100% loyal my dog would make it into Awakening, I cancelled my pre-order and will wait on it. None of the new characters being introduced look interesting at all, and Oghren's pretty low on my list of 'favorites.'

Too bad really. But it was their call.

[Lord Atlia]

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

Awakening is an expansion pack - like "Hordes of the Underdark", the last one we did. Most romances in original campaigns don't carry forward into expansion packs (in fact, almost none do). I'm glad we can finally clear that up because people were assuming that in Awakening we were carrying all of the romances forward. I don't know where that expectation came from. As Gaider has said elsewhere, we certainly aren't retconning those romances. They happened, they are a part of your character's life. But you're very busy in Awakening tackling some serious problems. And long-distance communication in Ferelden isn't exactly on the 3G network.

(Apologize in adavance for the negativity of my post) OMG Mr. Ferret A Boudoin thank you for your insight.  I'm sorry for assuming my ROLE PLAYING doesn't carry forward in your RPGs.  I really don't care for Awakening (but I will still buy it if consensus is that it is worth the price tag as I been a fan of Bioware's games) as I liked the party in DA:O but never got attached to one character but I can see trends in it and ME, Ashley, Kaidan, Liara, Wrex sidelined and that was a true sequel folks.  Now I've played RPGs both video games and traditional for about a decade and a half, most of my characters range from Lawful to Chaotic Good in personality. My PCs cares for his adventuring parties more than any mission regardless of circumstances.  I love Bioware Games because Bioware knows how to immerse you in your character, that is something they do better than say Blizzard, SquareEnix, or any other game company.  But lately they have been breaking immersion for some peeps, not me yet, but seeing my brothers and sisters on the forum I can very much emphasize with people. I mean didn't Leliana or Zevran continue adventuring with the PC or couldn't you become queen, knowing Alister he wouldn't let the love of his life run off into danger, he would probably leave Eamon as reagent and peace out after her.   Last expansion I remember was Throne of Bhaal and my memory is hazy because it has been about a decade now but as I recall relationships (both LI and bromances) were expanded on and no one was left out.  Heck if you guys are more about cleaning slate now I'd rather just have a fresh PC.  End nerd rage rant.

Tali=ME

[bjdbwea]

Actually, HotU introduced romances to the NWN franchise, as neither the OC nor SoZ had one. So there was nothing to carry over in the first place. And I remember my PC being very busy during HotU too, even more so during ToB, which did carry over and conclude the romances in a great way. Nice try, though...

[zMessenjah]

Wournos wrote...

zMessenjah wrote...

I agree w/ SecilyL.. the romance aspect of DAO made it heads above the rest of the RPG's I've played. Hands down! I loved everything about the game except Shayle. Her personallity was little to be desired. Sorta like here..a stone. lol
As far as ppl complaining about the romances being put on hold.
I fully understand how your character is like you in a game. I am soo into my character & the storyline, friendship & romance soap opera like part of the game it borders on obsession, so says my husband... It is like these characters become a part of you.
However..This is an expansion, not a direct continuation like DA2!!!
Don't worry... I am sooo anxious to find Morrigan in my game. I know darn well she's in luv w/my character, & don't know how to deal w/her emotions. I want to confront that & find out what came of my kid is it normal,good,evil, a mutant?!?! (My guy is head over heals for her! lol ) There are sooo many ways the story line could go with the decisions my Character made w/ Morrigan it is unreal!
However...until I get the chance to find here, there are soo many things just waiting to be killed & loot to find
All I am saying is....Patience people patience!
Have any of you ppl that are soooo mad ever considered that this expansion could be just a stepping stone in the story leading to a more complex bigger world/story line in the future of DA2, for your character, your companions, & romances, from DAO?
I think all this getting mad over there not being romances in this expansion is just silly!
There is sooo much to the story line/game yet to be told.
As far as DLC, I have all them & enjoyed playing them all. I'm not mad I can't take it w/ me in the expansion, There is nothing saying you won't beable to access it in DA2.

I don't think any of our opinions regarding romances are based on how much or little we identify with our character/s. Sure, there are some Alistair followers that it may be true for. I for one don't really identify with my dwarven woman. I am certainly not short and sturdy. I am not as bold as she is and I haven't met the love of my life yet. She is her own person with her own ideas and views, somewhat affected by what Leliana thinks of course. I feel sorry for my dwarf if she had to endure a fellow dwarf that I dislike, and two bizarre mages - one with anger management issues - and not be able to relax in camp with the love of her life.
Also, for you to imply that relationships are not a large part of the game ... that is silly. It may not be a huge part of Ferelden's story but, depending on the person playing, it can be a huge part of a character story. To have it whisked away with whatever explanation BioWare is adding is not on the positive side of my Pro and Con list.

...

Bob3terd said things so much better on page 19.

Sorry, I wasn't implying that romance/relationships are not a large part of the game, I just think that there may be a reason why there are no new romances in Awakening... I posted it a few pages back.
I really get into the relationship aspect of the game. My husband teases me that this is my version of daytime soaps. lol  
I feel the relationships you form are VERY important & will have an impact on the story line & how your game MAY play out in DA2?... but seeing as how most of our DA:O companions are not going to be in Awakening .. we can't possibly continue our "relationship" w/ them & I agree it does suck.. however I think maybe this expansion is going to be a huge stepping stone in forming a  bigger, more complex world for DA2
Some people want new romances w/ new ppl. However maybe the reason why BioWare decided not to let that happen is because it might conflict with future storyline/games.
For example if your guy married to Queen Anora, & she isn't in Awakening, & your guy gets his game on
w/Vallana (sp?) & gets a complex story going w/ her ... will possibly cause a big problem w/ the story line??? That is just my opinion on a possible reason there are no "new romances"
I do however hope BioWare atleast says something along those lines. ya know... or explains what is going on for the time.

[PSUHammer]

Nial Black-Knee wrote...

Hmmm......pay 40$ for 15 hours of game time? Heh....who are you trying to con Bioware. I'll wait till it's in the bargain bin. Thank you very much

I always found it interesting how people justified money for time, especially when it comes to gaming.  For instance, I took my wife out to dinner the other night and we spent roughly $50 with tip.  All in all we were out ofr about 1 1/2 hours.  I would say it was well worth it for a few hours.  A two hour movie with popcorn cost us close to $25 (at matinee prices).  You will spend $70+ to go to a sporting event for 3 hours.  Heck, if you go to the bar, you can buy a beer for $5 and not think twice about it.  BUT, some people around here will cry bloody murder if a $5 DLC takes only an hour to complete.

$40 for 15 hours of fun gameplay is a pretty damn good deal when you look at it's relative entertainment value compared to other entertainment diversions....