81 réponses à ce sujet

[Besetment]

Disruptor Ammo has several key uses but overall Squad is really good because you can apply 3x Overload/Overheat. Nearly every synthetic I've run across so far has had armour and Tungsten Rounds do similar damage to armoured synthetics as Heavy Disruptor Rounds. Overload/Overheat is what really separates them though its useless against shield or armour only targets like the Rocket Drones on Freedom's Progress (fortunately these types of baddies are rare).



Heavy Mechs and Geth Primes get stunlocked once you strip Shields and Armour and Squad shines when you have to deal with more than one of them. Other than that, its mainly a personal choice so I wouldn't say definitely take one or the other.



I still don't agree about Incinerate. Its a useful power don't get me wrong but the way its used in Veteran difficulty or lower is completely different to Insanity and NG+. On NG+ Husks are all armoured and you cannot 1 shot them so you are much more likely to get swarmed. I found Squad Cryo very useful but I need to get some more Eezo and test whether its worth a full 10 points and whether its worth saccing Incinerate. I doubt it though because Incinerate is still useful for dropping Scions safely.

[mundus66]

Solid guide and Infiltrator is definitely my 2nd favorite class after vanguard and imo the class that will get through the game the fastest. Only class that can kill faster is vanguard, but they die more often. Anyway why would you choose agent over assassin? I don't see a point really, i also roll with warp ammo as extra talent.

[Atmosfear3]

Besetment wrote...

I still don't agree about Incinerate. Its a useful power don't get me wrong but the way its used in Veteran difficulty or lower is completely different to Insanity and NG+. On NG+ Husks are all armoured and you cannot 1 shot them so you are much more likely to get swarmed. I found Squad Cryo very useful but I need to get some more Eezo and test whether its worth a full 10 points and whether its worth saccing Incinerate. I doubt it though because Incinerate is still useful for dropping Scions safely.

I highly recommend you try Incineration Blast (aoe).  Versus husks, it is amazing, especially on insanity. I've taken out groups of 3 and 4 before simply by being lucky and having them all bunched up.  Also incredibly useful as a lifesaver if you are ever surrounded and corned by Husks.  One of my favorite methods of husk removal is throw an incineration blast then follow up with throw field or shockwave from Thane/Jack.

[mi55ter]

Pooh-bah wrote...

Besetment wrote...

Man Geth Shield Boost is not a good bonus power for an Infiltrator. It has a 12 second Cooldown! Not to mention that on NG+ Insanity you lose all your shields in 1 or 2 hits anyway so cover is more critical than a one time doubling of shields every 60 seconds. In the video I posted above I lost all shields and half health in about 1 second flat in the first 10 seconds of the video. Watch how quickly the shields get depleted and thats just for 2x Loki mechs.

Biotic powers like Reave and Dominate work best on squadmates where they can be used whilst you are reloading, cloaking and aiming. Even Incinerate is something that warrents limited use because it reduces the frequency with which you can cloak. You need to cloak/headshot round the clock to get your damage output anywhere close to a Soldier and if you don't do that then you might as well just play a soldier.

It depends how you play. I agree that Geth Shield Boost isn't as good as cloak in many situations. I listed the shield boost last in order of active powers because it's the last of the three that I like that I'd consider even remotely useful for Infiltrator.  I agree that the cloak is the best "Oh crap!" button in the game, but other situations, especfially when bunkering down behind cover and getting into a protracted fire fight with enemies make the Geth Shield Boost shine.

It probably benifits from my more hybrid soldier-esq playstyle that uses the Viper and the Geth Pulse Rifle which turns me more into a commando than a dedicated sniper

Damage output also isn't everything. I have a lot of fun with my Soldier, and I have a lot of fun with my Infiltrator, and with my Adept too. I have totally different playstyles with each. I dont know whether my soldier actually gets through the game faster than my Infiltrator though, if you quantify damage output as "DPS over a reasonable period of time in order to produce an acceptable statistical average" then you're probably right that the soldier has a better damage output. But...  on insanity I don't tend to be shooting at targets for large periods of time, even with hardened adrenaline rush, enemies duck behind cover and regen their shields/barriers and all that. With my infiltrator if I plan ahead I have an apropriate sniper rifle with me and can go for the cloak+1-shot headshot-kill in situations where that will get me through quickly and where my soldier would have to bunker down and get into a protracted firefight. To put it into MMO jargon my soldier has better dps, but my infiltrator has better burst.

And my adept is a caster.

Maybe it's "better" for me not to be messing around with crazy biotic powers, but well, I have a lot of fun using them. I think there have been several situations my Insanity Soldier would never have made it through without her Dominate ability. I'm not leaning so hard on Reave on my Insanity Infiltrator, but it's really rewarding and fun to have a button I can press to punish enemies for standing next to eachother; Incinerate works too of course, but Reave can be used to set off another area-effect from Warp, and additionally makes enemies stand still and convulse in agony while I'm sucking the life out of them so they're easy to shoot. Ammo powers might be better, but they bore me and the point of the game for me is fun not achieving maximum speed/efficiency.

Milage always varies

Well written post. Enjoyed reading it.

[OniGanon]

A nice guide, but very narrow. Saying you must wear this, spec like this, take this weapon... There is more than one way of playing an Infiltrator, and other ways may suit different people better.

Anyone saying that the Infiltrator is the sniper class and that taking anything other than the Widow is not playing the class right... is just being silly. Someone using the Viper can snipe a hell of a lot more liberally than someone using the Widow, using it on any enemy at any range at any time, so they're certainly still playing a sniper.

Saying it's the sniper class is narrow minded in any case. It's a class with a sniper rifle, and is more effective with it than most classes. That doesn't make it a sniper class. There's more to the class than sniping. There are times when it's best to hang back and snipe away. There are others where it's better to use cloak to charge forward and aggressively take a flanking position with SMG or even shotgun fire. There are other times where it may be best to use your powers.

You can play your standard cookie cutter Infiltrator with the Widow, Assassin and Assassin's Cloak, Disruptor and Warp Ammo and Incinerate. There's more than enough proof that it's an effective and entertaining build, since it's what a lot of people use and succeed with.

You can play a controller Infiltrator with Dominate and AI Hacking. Use guns and squad powers to quickly strip an enemy of defenses, then Hack/Dominate them, and you now have a few seconds mostly free of fire to attack other enemies. Does not mix well with Cryo Ammo! Works with Widow or Viper. This is a highly effective and very safe way of playing.

You can use the Viper, take shotgun training, Squad Cryo, Agent and maybe even Enhanced Cloak (it may not seem like it in theory, but those extra few seconds can make a huge difference in practice) and play a more aggressive Infiltrator, with a focus on using the SMG and SG to take the best real estate by force, rather than putting up with whatever the game gives you, then laying into the enemies from their flank with sniper, SMG or pistol fire and freezing them solid, which leaves them vulnerable to you charging forward again. Very effective and rewarding when it works. Tends to be fatal when it doesn't, but hell that's half the fun!

Personally I play a bit of a mix of all three. I've tried the standard Infiltrator build, but it just didn't fit me very well. I was always running out of ammo, frustrated at not having a decent midrange weapon (though this would be fixed now with the Locust), irritated at the endless streams of enemy spawns and the ceaseless hail of fire from them.
This is the build I've devised. It just works out so much better and smoother for me than any others I've tried. Rather different from the standard, though, and I'd not be all that shocked if it didn't fit most people.

Infiltrator w/ Katana
6 Disruptor Ammo
10 Squad Cryo Ammo
10 Assassin Cloak
3 Incinerate
1 AI Hacking
10 Agent
10 Neural Shockwave

Katana- I was always running out of ammo with the Widow, frustrated with the Tempest at range and yearning for a more powerful close range weapon. The Viper and Katana answered those problems for me, with the Viper providing enough ammo, and the Katana giving close range punch for defensive and aggressive purposes. With its larger clip and higher fire rate, it has the right rhythm for me (Eviscerator and Scimitar were too slow and not punchy enough, respectively).

Disruptor- If I want the squad version there's always Zaeed, and Heavy version is alright but with Shield Piercing SMG, shields go down fast enough. Anyway, exploding mechs can be problematic when you shotgun them.
Squad Cryo- Significantly reduces enemy fire, especially when you have the Viper to quickly strip defenses off multiple enemies. Also makes enemies die quicker, and makes it much safer to move around and charge forward. Perfect for me.

Incinerate- TBH I don't use Incinerate much. It doesn't really achieve anything I couldn't do with a couple of Viper shots, and between its travel time and limited curve, I find it unreliable. So I took points out of it.

AI Hacking- even 1 point makes a massive difference in any fight with synthetics involved. There's no excuse to not have 1 point.

Agent- Adds a second of cloak duration, and shaves cooldown times slightly, as well as better conversation bonus. Only sacrifices a few % weapon damage. I mostly use Cryo, Cloak and Shock, so power dmg isn't much concern.

Neural Shockwave- its main strength is the ridiculously short cooldown with the loooooong stun time. It also staggers defended enemies. That stagger on short cooldown is awesome beyond words. When I pop out of cover to fire, it's frequently preceded by a Neural Shockwave to stagger the enemies first, reducing the fire I take and making it easier to get headshots. Also godly vs Husks.

Modifié par OniGanon, 10 avril 2010 - 06:09 .

[implodinggoat]

I realize AI hacking is worthless against most of the enemies in the game; but against synthetics its incredibly powerful. If you take it to just level 2 you can repeatedly hack a mech or geth over and over and give it 200 shields which is usually enough to keep it alive until you can hack it again. With 1 point you can hack it; but it's almost certainly going to get killed while at level 2 you can keep it alive and fighting. Of course to get AI hacking to level 2 you'll only be able to max 4 powers not 5; but personally I think its worth the trade off.  Plus it fits my Ghost in the Shell inspired infilitrator chick.

This is my first infiltrator playthrough (Loving it although, I still prefer my Vindicator and Widow toting commando) and I haven't gotten to level 30 yet; but I'm thinking...

Level 4:   Squad Disruptor Ammo
Level 4:   Assasination Cloak
Level 4:   Assasin
Level 4:   Heavy Warp Ammo
Level 3:   Incinerate
Level 2:   AI Hacking
Level 1:   Cryo Ammo

And naturally I'm taking the Widow because I love that gun and because the Locust SMG compliments it so well.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 10 avril 2010 - 10:34 .

[Maestro Vivaldi]

Assassination Cloak is a Techno Power. But Assasination Cloak doesn't benefit from the Damage Upgrade Research for Tech Power. It should have benefit from such upgrades. This way Infiltrator would be the best Sniper of the game and deals a comparable amount of damage than the Soldier with adrenaline rush. I think it's sad that an infiltrator is not the best sniper. Everything else is good for the class but i REALLY appreciate the idea of a modified Cloak like that.
Without a patch one way to give a better DPS to an infiltrator is to give him an exclusive Sniper Rifle.

Modifié par Maestro Vivaldi, 10 avril 2010 - 11:59 .

[implodinggoat]

Maestro Vivaldi wrote...

Assassination Cloak is a Techno Power. But Assasination Cloak doesn't benefit from the Damage Upgrade Research for Tech Power. It should have benefit from such upgrades. This way Infiltrator would be the best Sniper of the game and deals a comparable amount of damage than the Soldier with adrenaline rush. I think it's sad that an infiltrator is not the best sniper. Everything else is good for the class but i REALLY appreciate the idea of a modified Cloak like that.
Without a patch one way to give a better DPS to an infiltrator is to give him an exclusive Sniper Rifle.

I doubt that an Infiltrator could out snipe my Widow wielding commando even with the tech upgrades.  The commando specialization gives me +15% weapon damage and heightened adrenaline rush gives me +140% for a total of +155% weapon damage.

With a fully upgraded Widow my commando can lay down 596 damage to health, barriers and shields and a devestating 997 damage to armor with a single Widow shot and that doesn't even take my ammo powers or armor upgrades into account.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 11 avril 2010 - 12:19 .

[Maestro Vivaldi]

Assassination Cloak is +75% and Operative Assassin is +15% = +90%
Without Kasumi DLC Techno Damage Upgrade + 50% (with Kasumi upgrade) + 60% = +150%

Since we can shoot only one bullet with the damage bonus of a cloak, another way to correct that issue is to give assassination cloak a +140% damage bonus... It doesn't break the game but i find the first option more interesting. The infiltrator is still a fun class to play.

Modifié par Maestro Vivaldi, 11 avril 2010 - 12:43 .

[Hiero Glyph]

The larger issue is the recharge discrepancy between Tactical Cloak (6 seconds at level 4) and Adrenaline Rush (3 seconds at level 4). Sure the Tactical Cloak gets a -20% tech cooldown bonus and a -9/15% Operative bonus but that is only 2.1 seconds off, making it 3.9 seconds between uses. Add to that the fact that the Tactical Cloak wears off one you start firing and the duration advantage becomes insignificant when compared to Adrenaline Rush.



The Soldier should really be limited to Assault Rifles, Submachine Guns and Pistols to start and only be able to gain access to Sniper Rifles and Shotguns from advanced training. This would also keep the Widow and Claymore exclusive to the other Soldier hybrids. A Soldier using a Mantis or Viper is deadly enough so the Widow should be strictly for the Infiltrator. Besides, the Soldier can recharge Adrenaline Rush faster and be able to use the damage bonus for the skill's entire duration, unlike Tactical Cloak.



I still enjoy playing the Infiltrator more but once again the Soldier is the best DD in the game.

[RiouHotaru]

Hmmm...is Squad Cryo Ammo any good for an Infiltrator? I realize that with the Locust now, and the SMG Shield Piercing upgrade, Warp Ammo feels largely redundant, since the purpose of it was to help get rid of barriers, but the Locust just eats through barriers like nobody's business.



So perhaps an ability like Neural Shock, with it's 3 second cooldown (holy crap that's fast!), or just forget leveling up a bonus power?

[TheBestClass]

How well does a CQC Infiltrator perform on Insanity?



Here's what I had in mind:

Enhanced Cloak-10

Incineration Blast-10

Heavy or Squad Disruptor Ammo (probably squad)-10

Squad Cryo Ammo-10

Agent-10



I'm thinking of taking the Shotgun as my bonus weapon. Is the Shotgun the only weapon that benefits from increased damage depending on how close you fire? Or is that only because all of the shotgun pellets hit the enemy the closer you are? I figure the Vanguard's Charge has the same cooldown time as Tactical Cloak so I'll try using it in the same way to close the gap between me and the enemy.

[SpezXVII]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Hmmm...is Squad Cryo Ammo any good for an Infiltrator? I realize that with the Locust now, and the SMG Shield Piercing upgrade, Warp Ammo feels largely redundant, since the purpose of it was to help get rid of barriers, but the Locust just eats through barriers like nobody's business.

So perhaps an ability like Neural Shock, with it's 3 second cooldown (holy crap that's fast!), or just forget leveling up a bonus power?

I prefer to play my Infiltrator as a CQC Hybrid, using my Sniper Rifle for only the larger "boss/elite" enemies or those at extreme range. With that particular playstyle Squad Cryo Ammo is an immense help. With the addition of Kasumi and the Improved Flashbang, my enemies are shutdown in some sense for the majority of the battle. This allows me to easily move to advantageous positions to strike from without too much danger. (Only play on Insanity btw)

As for the bonus power, take whatever you like but the Infiltrator doesn't really need one. I personally have 1 point Flashbang just as a fun suppliment to cloaking.

TheBestclass wrote...
I'm thinking of taking the Shotgun as my
bonus weapon. Is the Shotgun the only weapon that benefits from
increased damage depending on how close you fire?

No, most weapons have a range modifier.

Modifié par SpezXVII, 11 avril 2010 - 05:45 .

[RiouHotaru]

SpezXVII wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Hmmm...is Squad Cryo Ammo any good for an Infiltrator? I realize that with the Locust now, and the SMG Shield Piercing upgrade, Warp Ammo feels largely redundant, since the purpose of it was to help get rid of barriers, but the Locust just eats through barriers like nobody's business.

So perhaps an ability like Neural Shock, with it's 3 second cooldown (holy crap that's fast!), or just forget leveling up a bonus power?

I prefer to play my Infiltrator as a CQC Hybrid, using my Sniper Rifle for only the larger "boss/elite" enemies or those at extreme range. With that particular playstyle Squad Cryo Ammo is an immense help. With the addition of Kasumi and the Improved Flashbang, my enemies are shutdown in some sense for the majority of the battle. This allows me to easily move to advantageous positions to strike from without too much danger. (Only play on Insanity btw)

As for the bonus power, take whatever you like but the Infiltrator doesn't really need one. I personally have 1 point Flashbang just as a fun suppliment to cloaking.

TheBestclass wrote...
I'm thinking of taking the Shotgun as my
bonus weapon. Is the Shotgun the only weapon that benefits from
increased damage depending on how close you fire?

No, most weapons have a range modifier.

It's true, like the Vanguard, Infiltrator doesn't really need any sort of bonus power.  I might try the Flashbang, see if I can't get the hang of it as Shepard.  Otherwise I might go for Neural Shock to stun incoming Krogan.

[SpezXVII]

I use the Flashbang on Shepard as a close range attack. I bounce it close to myself, just enough that it lands behind the cover of my enemy, knocking them out out cover.

[RiouHotaru]

How does it work, the bounce that is? Is it a hard bounce? A light bounce?

[Pacifien]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Hmmm...is Squad Cryo Ammo any good for an Infiltrator? I realize that with the Locust now, and the SMG Shield Piercing upgrade, Warp Ammo feels largely redundant, since the purpose of it was to help get rid of barriers, but the Locust just eats through barriers like nobody's business.

So perhaps an ability like Neural Shock, with it's 3 second cooldown (holy crap that's fast!), or just forget leveling up a bonus power?

I'm a big fan of Squad Cryo Ammo. It's terribly satisfying to see enemies everywhere... frozen. And with the Lotus, it's a rain of shattering death.

I've gone with Energy Drain for a bonus power. On the higher difficulties, a good deal of the enemies are going to have shields. Energy Drain is like Overload, but boosts your shields at the same time. Mix with Incinerate, and you've got two out of the three enemy defenses covered.

[RiouHotaru]

Pacifien wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Hmmm...is Squad Cryo Ammo any good for an Infiltrator? I realize that with the Locust now, and the SMG Shield Piercing upgrade, Warp Ammo feels largely redundant, since the purpose of it was to help get rid of barriers, but the Locust just eats through barriers like nobody's business.

So perhaps an ability like Neural Shock, with it's 3 second cooldown (holy crap that's fast!), or just forget leveling up a bonus power?

I'm a big fan of Squad Cryo Ammo. It's terribly satisfying to see enemies everywhere... frozen. And with the Lotus, it's a rain of shattering death.

I've gone with Energy Drain for a bonus power. On the higher difficulties, a good deal of the enemies are going to have shields. Energy Drain is like Overload, but boosts your shields at the same time. Mix with Incinerate, and you've got two out of the three enemy defenses covered.

Good point.  I just typically don't play on Hardcore or Insanity anymore since I got the achievement.  It was just a huge exercise in frustration and agony for me.

[SpezXVII]

RiouHotaru wrote...

How does it work, the bounce that is? Is it a hard bounce? A light bounce?

No real way to gauge or change how hard it is thrown, just the arc that it is thrown at. Takes a little practice but you get familiar with it rather quickly. When thrown at the ground it acts more like it was rolled. Honestly it all depends on your playstyle and how aggressive you are. If you like to sit back and snipe, learn to "Hail Mary" that beast in there. lol

[RiouHotaru]

SpezXVII wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

How does it work, the bounce that is? Is it a hard bounce? A light bounce?

No real way to gauge or change how hard it is thrown, just the arc that it is thrown at. Takes a little practice but you get familiar with it rather quickly. When thrown at the ground it acts more like it was rolled. Honestly it all depends on your playstyle and how aggressive you are. If you like to sit back and snipe, learn to "Hail Mary" that beast in there. lol

Huh.  Well, I've never tried a CQC Infiltrator.  I mostly do a mix of long range and close-range, depending on my targets.  Kasumi makes it easy to sit back and let her Shadow Strike everything honestly.  Especially once you get Rapid Shadow Strike.  I could see the Grenade as a great way to knock enemies down for a rush down, or to give you the ability to get cover faster.  Only reason I'd take Neural Shock are for those damn Krogan.

[OniGanon]

Actually, Shock seems to have diminished effect on Krogan. For them, it's more important to strip their defenses asap and get them frozen. Works great for all other organics though.

[Phaelducan]

So just a general seeking of advice here from people who had played the class extensively...

I've finished the game on Insanity with a Sentinel, Hardcore with an Adept, and Veteran with a Vanguard (started higher but died constantly).

I liked playing on Insanity, but with the Sentinel it was really easy/boring (keep Tech armor up, play defensively, use medi-gels when needed).I want to try an Infiltrator on Insanity as it sounds like fun.

I plan on going the normal 10's in Cloak (Assassination) and Operative (Assassin) but I'm not sure about the evolved powers to take after that.

I'm leaning towards Squad Disrupter (35% x 3 seems better than 50% x 1 plus the overloads), but maybe someone has a compelling reason not to?
Same with Incinerate, I'm leaning towards Area instead of Heavy, based on the better potential damage of getting more targets per cooldown rather than more damage per single target.

Undecided on Bonus Power, still reading up on options. Do AOE powers make sense for Infiltrators on Insanity or am I setting myself up for failure?

[Lake88]

Most people would recommend getting squad disruptor on Zaeed instead and bring him along for Mech-heavy missions. Idea is to free up the points for yourself.



Its okay to get AOE powers for infiltrators. They can already do massive damage to single targets using firearms, don't really need additional single-target abilities..

[TigrisJK]

I agree with everyone saying squad cryo ammo being useful. I usually (unless it's a Synthetic heavy map) kick up squad cryo right away, whilst using warp ammo on myself. One or two shots on heavier baddies I can't kill outright and I can strip them of their defences right away, and have my allies keep them from closing range with squad cryo while I switch targets. I usually carry all the ammo powers on my Infiltrator and keep everyone else free to use powers, since I like not having anything to interfere with my cloak. I occasionally pack AI Hacking for mech heavy missions, since it means taking very little damage from mechs as they busy themselves with killing the wolf amongst their midst (and I pick them off with well placed shots).



Oh yes. As far as squadmates go... I realize warp ammo and biotics synergize, but it's worth considering Kasumi if you have the DLC. Kasumi's Shadow Strike is an extremely useful power, since her reappearance further up the battlefield (especially if you cloak at the right time) distracts the AI and keeps them from moving in closer, and does a fair amount of damage (and knocks people on their backs)... and the flashbang, even on shielded enemies, will knock enemies off of cover momentarily, giving you a bit of time to land a headshot.

[OniGanon]

Necromancy...



I had this long reply typed up and then realised everything I wanted to say, I had already said 5 months ago earlier in the thread.