34 réponses à ce sujet

[VictorVonPresper]

I was recently pursuing the web, and came across an interesting article

http://seanmalstrom....es-its-decline/

In this article, it seems to claim that facebook/wii/DS games will
overpower "hard core" games ps3, 360, PC and they'll end up in the
dustban of history, with "Farmville" being the future of gaming. It apparently has more players than EA sold games combined last year. I've been told this guy is one of the few gaming journalists that "get the industry", but I have no    idea if that accusation is true.

So, what are your guys thoughts? Hard core gaming totally dead? Casual
gaming actually going to die? Something inbetween? Yes, no, maybe so?

*I ask this here because Bioware is most definietly an icon of "hard core gaming", and I'm wondering if it's future is in jeopardy*

Modifié par VictorVonPresper, 14 février 2010 - 03:25 .

[A Killing Sound]

Yes I think the hard core crowd is slowly dying out as mainstream game systems like the wii become popular. This trend is even evident in certain game series. Take Devil May Cry for example. The first game was super hard, it forced you to practice and get good. The sequel was a cakewalk. Number 3 got harder again, but 4 again was easy. When you even look back at the older generations of games, they were notoriously difficult, but now developers seem to be pandering to the casual crowd so more players get into their games, and buy them.

Now, this isn't to say that the hard core games are dead yet, but they are few and far between in this era of gaming.

[VictorVonPresper]

I'm curious "A killing Sound", how do you feel this will affect Bioware in the future?

[A Killing Sound]

Well, look at the negative complaints about Mass Effect 2 becoming more shooter and less rpg. Bioware attempted to go more mainstream with the series and alienated a few of the hardcore Mass Effect 2 fanbase. At the same time Dragon Age is a throw back to the rpgs of yester year. I could see Bioware go either way really. I guess we'll soon find out.

[VictorVonPresper]

A Killing Sound wrote...

Well, look at the negative complaints about Mass Effect 2 becoming more shooter and less rpg. Bioware attempted to go more mainstream with the series and alienated a few of the hardcore Mass Effect 2 fanbase. At the same time Dragon Age is a throw back to the rpgs of yester year. I could see Bioware go either way really. I guess we'll soon find out.

Good point, though frankly , I prefer that Bioware focused more on the dialogue and story choices rather than having 100,000 different weapons and moves. I don't know, I was in the camp that ME 2 was an improvement over ME1.

[Seagloom]

The answer is simple. BioWare will have to adapt or die. No one can say with certainty if this writer's predictions are true. He does raise a few interesting points, and there is evidence to support the possibility he is correct. But I think we're still a ways off from reaching a point where casual games dominate the entire market. Perhaps the Wii is outselling 360s and PS3s. Perhaps games are being continually dumbed down. Whether or not that's true, the installed base for 360 and PS3 doesn't vanish after they buy a console. People will want games for these platforms, and most developers will gladly provide them. Since neither 360 or PS3 are geared towards Wii style games, their position is safe for at least this generation.

What matters is that at least Microsoft or Sony turns enough of a profit to consider continued support of their platform worthwhile, and worthy of creating a successor for. I think what happens in the next console generation will give us a clearer picture of where this is all going. However, I do expect that if this trend does continue either Sony or Microsoft are going to be forced to back out in the next generation.

This same sort of scenario occurred when Sony stepped into the gaming market, and although the reasons were different, Sony's presence ended up marginalizing Sega time and again until they finally withdrew from the console race.

I think BioWare's niche is safe for the time being, and probably will continue to be so far into this decade. I have no idea how their games will play, but I think there's still a place for story driven titles.

Modifié par Seagloom, 14 février 2010 - 04:35 .

[A Killing Sound]

I'd like to have faith that things will stay the same. The videogame industry in comparison to hollywood is young. The people that grew up on the hardcore are getting older, and a newer generation of fans are coming in, so naturally there will always been the main stream, easy games. However, I feel that there will be a time that once the new generation grows up, they will demand for more hard core games. In the mean time, I don't see hardcore gaming being totally wiped out, as the older crowds are the ones who have the income to drop 80 bucks every couple months on Bioware games,

[Maria Caliban]

Chicken little.

The game market is expanding. Ten years ago, the majority of published fantasy was still LotR style Epic Fantasy. Laurel K Hamilton came along with her Laurel Haimlton series and JK Rowling came out with the Harry Potter series. Since then Urban Fantasy and Children's Fantasy has grown by leaps and bounds and possibly outsells the Epic Fantasy. Has that lead to a decline in Epic Fantasy? Not at all.

More games are created every year as more people and more types of people play. The idea that 'hardcore' games will disappear is gamer paranoia.

I also think we need to distinguish between casual, mainstream, and hardcore games here. Nothing about Mass Effect is a casual game and I’m not aware of any casual games developed for the Wii. A casual game is Bejewled or Farmstead, and BioWare products don’t compete with them in any way, shape, or form.

[VictorVonPresper]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Chicken little.

The game market is expanding. Ten years ago, the majority of published fantasy was still LotR style Epic Fantasy. Laurel K Hamilton came along with her Laurel Haimlton series and JK Rowling came out with the Harry Potter series. Since then Urban Fantasy and Children's Fantasy has grown by leaps and bounds and possibly outsells the Epic Fantasy. Has that lead to a decline in Epic Fantasy? Not at all.

More games are created every year as more people and more types of people play. The idea that 'hardcore' games will disappear is gamer paranoia.

I also think we need to distinguish between casual, mainstream, and hardcore games here. Nothing about Mass Effect is a casual game and I’m not aware of any casual games developed for the Wii. A casual game is Bejewled or Farmstead, and BioWare products don’t compete with them in any way, shape, or form.

Hi there, thanks for your response.

I'm inclined to agree with you, but let me play devil's advocate here for a minute. I've been told that hardcore gaming is "already dead", and it's like the housing market of "old", in which it's just denying it's old death. Apparently, FarmVille has more players than EA sold games combined last year, and their maker, Zynga will overshadow EA.  Consider GTA IV, a game that costed 100 million dollars to make, now 20 bucks and isn't selling, where Mario Kart Wii, 50 bucks, and is still selling well. Now, I'm not sure if all of this is factually sound, and if it isn't, do please tell me how it's not.

Also, aren't games like Wii Fit and Brain Age both casual games Nintendo has developed? Not rhetorical, genuine question.

Modifié par VictorVonPresper, 14 février 2010 - 04:54 .

[Dennis Carpenter]

I prefer anything with quality plot and storyline as well as the ability to stimulate my gray matter (whats left anyway). Perhaps it is just a change in perception vs. various gaming genres, GTA Has had its share of bad press overtime and perhaps the new wave of parents want there children less obsessed with violence or whatever so a number of these games are losing interest and more family friendly games are taking there place. That is merely another whole market which if allowed to grown may overshadow the hardcore gamers market that we recognize today. I do not believe that will be the case, instead I believe the hardcore games will adapt to grab a piece of that market without losing there fanbase. My concern would be more about whether they will start coming up with a geriatric keyboard for those of us who have been gaming from the start (commodore64 etc)
and might soon find it difficult to find our way around the controls.............:-P

Modifié par Dennis Carpenter, 14 février 2010 - 05:05 .

[Seagloom]

Ewww... Laurel K. Hamilton. >.< Sorry, I feel queasy whenever someone dares to mention her. Nothing else to add to this. I had a much longer post, but it turned into a meandering mess. Too tired for this sort of debate right now.

[Maria Caliban]

VictorVonPresper wrote...

Hi there, thanks for your response.

I'm inclined to agree with you, but let me play devil's advocate here for a minute. I've been told that hardcore gaming is "already dead", and it's like the housing market of "old", in which it's just denying it's old death.

There's no evidence for this.

Apparently, FarmVille has more players than EA sold games combined last year, and their maker, Zynga will overshadow EA.

And PopCap, the makers of Bejeweled has already overshadowed EA. EA has operated at a loss for the last few years.

  Consider GTA IV, a game that costed 100 million dollars to make, now 20 bucks and isn't selling, where Mario Kart Wii, 50 bucks, and is still selling well.

Mario Kart Wii isn't a casual game. It is a mainstream game though.

(Many) Hardcore games sell less than (many) casual games and (a few) mainstream games. (Many) Horror movies sell less than (many) romantic comedies. Are horror movies dead? Have people stopped making them?

Hardcore games have a smaller amount of market share but their overall sales continue to rise. This is to be expected, as hardcore games are targeted at a specific demographic.

I know a man who loved Buldar's Gate I and II. During college, he used to have marathon sessions where he played through the entire trilogy. He's had Dragon Age: Origins since November and still hasn't finished it. Why?

Full-time job + wife + toddler.

The demographics of gaming have changed and not everyone is interested in running through endless corridors blowing off the heads of evil demon-alien-****s, grinding for elemental drops in Shadowmoon Valley, or figuring out what combination of conversation and gifts will get Leliana to spread her legs for you.

However, there are enough hardcore players to make Modern Warfare 2 so profitable the developers could wipe their backside with 100 bills if desired.

Also, aren't games like Wii Fit and Brain Age both casual games Nintendo has developed? Not rhetorical, genuine question.

Wii Fit isn’t casual. I believe Brain Age might be, yes. EA has plans to (or has already) publish casual games.

[Statulos]

I´m finding some of your definitions problematic; basicaly because... how´s a game that deserves to be defined as "hardcore"?

I´ll start saying that I mostly play strategy and over there, hardcore means (to me at least) that games such as Starcraft, C&C, AoE or Total War series are mainstream. Hardcore strategy tends to have simple graphics and often times, forces you to take a piece of paper and calculate your next move.

On the other hand, just as you point out, Maria; "hardcore" games are not dissapering. If you like whatever genre you´re into, I´m sure you know where to find the less mainstream products. Becuase those products sell and since they sell, there will be developers for them.

Modifié par Statulos, 14 février 2010 - 06:00 .

[Chained_Creator]

VictorVonPresper wrote...
*I ask this here because Bioware is most definietly an icon of "hard core gaming", and I'm wondering if it's future is in jeopardy*

No.

[KethWolfheart]

I guess I also have a problem with the definition of casual, as many of the games some people are listed as NOT being casual I consider extremely casual. I won't mention the games as that will just cause flames but there is very apparent differences on what someone considers casual. But then the same applies to the definition of RPG ... and we all know those debates never get resolved.

Modifié par KethWolfheart, 14 février 2010 - 05:22 .

[VictorVonPresper]

Maria Caliban wrote...

VictorVonPresper wrote...

Hi there, thanks for your response.

I'm inclined to agree with you, but let me play devil's advocate here for a minute. I've been told that hardcore gaming is "already dead", and it's like the housing market of "old", in which it's just denying it's old death.

There's no evidence for this. 

*puts on devil's advocate cap*

Apparently , the evidence is that a single game like Farmville have more players than all games combined that EA sold last year. Hardcore is just a few million players (loud players true). While casual is hundreds of millions, and growing fast, and the scary part is that casual players spend a lot of money on games, they just spend it in smaller amounts. Already Zynga, which is only 2 years old, is almost worth what EA is, and their overhead and expenses are A LOT less than EA. Zynga and other social gaming companies have a much bigger impact than hardcore gaming. The money just can't compare. A hardcore game can cost $50m+ to create, and might not make back it's cost. Casual games are a tiny fraction and can make money continuously and to a bigger audience. You will see EA and others go this direction. (as you already suggested EA is) Zynga has 60m daily players. 1 in 6 people in the US are actively playing a Zynga game. That is ... crazy. Hardcore can't compete with this. How can games like Mass Effect survive in this environment?

Modifié par VictorVonPresper, 15 février 2010 - 04:48 .

[Statulos]

OK; another question: is EVE a hardcore or a mainstream game? Because it has been arround for some years and the amount of players is huge.

[Godak]

MMOs are mainstream by definition. They cannot exist without a large player base.

[VictorVonPresper]

Statulos wrote...

OK; another question: is EVE a hardcore or a mainstream game? Because it has been arround for some years and the amount of players is huge.

EVE online is pretty complex, so I'd figure somewhere in "hardcore".

That being said, EVE online has like 300,000 active players, farmville 60 million.

[Cybernetica]

wth is farmvill

[VictorVonPresper]

Cybernetica wrote...

wth is farmvill

FarmVille is a real-time farm simulation game developed by Zynga, available as an application on the social networking website Facebook. The game allows members of Facebook to manage a virtual farm by planting, growing and harvesting virtual crops, trees, and raising livestock.[2] Since its launch in June 2009,[3] FarmVille has become the most popular game application on Facebook, with over 75.2 million active users and over 18.1 million fans in January 2010.[4] FarmVille started as a clone of the popular Farm Town on Facebook.[5]

Source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FarmVille

[Cybernetica]

Wow those are some crazy numbers!! Facebook is evil I tells ya evil!!!

[VictorVonPresper]

Cybernetica wrote...

Wow those are some crazy numbers!! Facebook is evil I tells ya evil!!!

And much more profitable than EA it seems.

[Statulos]

That sounds like a watered down Bullfrog game; a kind of craptastic Theme Farm.

[VictorVonPresper]

Statulos wrote...

That sounds like a watered down Bullfrog game; a kind of craptastic Theme Farm.

That it is..that it is...

I do sincerely hope that's not the future of gaming...