209 réponses à ce sujet

[Nyaore]

While I certainly wouldn't mind them re-implementing an inventory system for the next game, though I honestly love the new system, I definitely don't think that they should use the one from ME1. Out of all the games I've played that allow you to have inventories, I would have to say that ME1's was simply one of the worst I've come across. It was clunky, poorly designed, and ineffective. It's only high point was that they mercifully separated the armor and gun mods from the rest of the crap you collected, even though all of them were lumped together into your final item score.

[deimosmasque]

Loot does not an RPG make, it's an ancient hold over from the original Dungeons and Dragons Table-Top game which formed the basis for many CRPGs in the early days. It's basically a dinosaur from the early days of Nintendo and Sega.



I table-top rpg all the time. In Shadowrun, looting bodies is just a good way to get caught by security and get killed. World of Darkness is set in modern times and looting bodies is just as illegal as it is today. Truth and Justice is a superhero RPG and I don't recall a super-hero ever "looting the bodies"



In ME1 I kept wondering where Shepard's Bag of Holding was considering he could hold 20 shotguns, 10 complete sets of armor, 40 pistols, 20 sniper rifles, 10 assualt rifles and all sorts of other upgrades and equipment without problem... as long as it was only 150 total. It broke immersion for me. Well the idea of a Marine looting corpses actually broke it more but you get my point. And actually upgrading weapons and armor in the middle of a mission breaks immersion as well. Your being attacked by 10 geth... good thing they are nice enough to pause so that you can switch out which type of AR and Armor your have.

And in ME1 inventory became obsolete towards the end game, when you had your Spectre gear, your frictionless material mods and your Colossus X armors, you were pretty much done universally.



In ME2 yes you don't have as many weapons but they matter more, they have their own strengths and weaknesses outside of how much damage they do. Ammo types are still there and now do more than just increase damage, Incendiary Ammo burns through armor and health, Cryo Ammo actually freezes enemies, etc. To me having equipment that actually means something is far more important. And far more like an RPG.

Quality of Quanity!



RPG are about immersion, not about levels, loot, skill points, or even combat systems. It's about playing your role, and I know all you CRPG Purists hate to hear that. But what I mean by playing a role is owning the role, being able to make decisions for your character and have it actually mater. Halo isn't an RPG because you play Master Chief. I can't decide why Master Chief is shooting everything, the game tells me why. WET has some RPG elements but it isn't an RPG because I have no choice in Rubi's motivations. Mass Effect could be an RPG even if you never leveled up as long as the dialog tree was there, the missions were there and the reason why you do what you do is up to you.





And lastly, the reason you hear more about people "wanting it back" over people okay with the new system is because it's easier to post criticisms rather than praise. When you like something you say "I like it" and it doesn't really matter who knows, when you dislike something you tend to explain why and want to share it.

[Serogon]

Deimos, you are my hero. I couldn't have possibly put that better.

[RhythmlessNinja]

I will just keep it short and say hell no. Inventory was the most annoying pos in Mass effect 1. Period. Very badly designed.

[Aisynia]

Deimos, your post is full of win.

[Lmaoboat]

These threads make me facepalm because everyone thinks they have discovered that one true definition of "RPG", and that all the other philistines with their outdated definitions are wrong. Every seems to forget that the RPG genre is a very large umbrella of game and story mechanics that a game may or not have, and that a game may or may not have what you consider to be the defining element of an RPG, and still be one.

Modifié par Lmaoboat, 14 février 2010 - 05:07 .

[Talthanar]

something between the new and the old would be ideal.



eg: you can upgrade damage or you can upgrade accuracy. then throughout the game maybe find additional goodies to make up for the choice, this is where inferno/cryo rounds come into play.

[addiction21]

ME2 invokes one of the oldest and greatest RPG elements. Swords suck against skeletons but maces smash em good.

[deimosmasque]

Lmaoboat wrote...

These threads make me facepalm because everyone thinks they have discovered that one true definition of "RPG", and that all the other philistines with their outdated definitions are wrong. Every seems to forget that the RPG genre is a very large umbrella of game and story mechanics that a game may or not have, and that a game may or may not have what you consider to be the defining element of an RPG, and still be one.

No your absolutely right, couldn't agree with you more.  That's why I used the three examples I did.  They are all very different games with very different genres.  But my blanket statement I feel is correct.  An RPG doesn't need any sort of system, it can be completely freeform with just a couple people sitting around a table pretending to be characters.  As long as the game is about taking a character and making his decisions for him, it's a RPG.  Everything else is just icing on the cake.

[ABCoLD]

The current system of 'looting' is horribly... horrible in ME2.

The limited methods of customization of your gear means that you know once you pick up a weapon you know how it'll fire and what it will feel like and do for you.  This left me uninspired to go out and pick up yet another +10% damage upgrade as it just didn't matter for the most part.  (And I don't need you, yes you saying that I should play the game on Insanity.  I've tried, sucky item personalization still sucks.)

I was really hoping we'd see a preview of Alpha Protocol's apparently robust weapon customization in this game, but alas and alack.

If I had to choose between the two, I'd take ME1s immersion breaking and craptacular inventory system over ME2's immersion breaking you're playing a shooter so stop trying to get loot system.


.....
On a plus note, I did like how minifacturing in ME2 made it so that once you got a weapon, you could make as many copies as you wanted for your team, I also enjoyed that you couldn't sell common weapons to vendors because they already had them.  Did not like that the Normandy apparently can't manufacture 'power cells' to fill up my heavy weapon ammo between missions.

[Chained_Creator]

Tooneyman wrote...
In Mass Effect 1 we had an awesome inventory system.

No.

[EricHVela]

ME1 was too much of a hassle. ME2 simplified it into severe constriction. Hopefully, ME3 will have something that gives people more freedom than 2 and A LOT less hassle than 1.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 14 février 2010 - 06:52 .

[deimosmasque]

How is a military squad only taking the weapons that they know how to use immersion breaking?



I'm not being snarky I'm actually curious.

[dreman9999]

God no. Just give me more stuff and I'm fine. I never want to go back.

[dreman9999]

deimosmasque wrote...

How is a military squad only taking the weapons that they know how to use immersion breaking?

I'm not being snarky I'm actually curious.

Because your taking all of them with you with no clear way of how your  carrying them in the first place.

[Madriker]

Cluttered and partitioned inventory from ME was the worst pos I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with.

[st0icr4ven]

didn't take long to get accustomed to the inventory system in ME2 and it's much much better then ME1 by leaps and bounds.

[Unato]

60000000000 guns mods and spending 15 minutes to omni gel everything? err hell no



I don't mind having a wider loot variety but the ME1 system was utter crap

[deimosmasque]

dreman9999 wrote...

deimosmasque wrote...

How is a military squad only taking the weapons that they know how to use immersion breaking?

I'm not being snarky I'm actually curious.

Because your taking all of them with you with no clear way of how your  carrying them in the first place.

Oh I'm sorry I put that the wrong way.  I was asking ABCold how the ME2 inventory system was immersion breaking.  I already gave my long post on why ME1 makes no sense.

[Chained_Creator]

"Hold on, stop shooting me for a minute, I'm looting the corpses of your dead comrades! Don't mind me, just going to shoot you with your former allies assault rifle. Hey, this armor is kinda nice, too. Think I'll take his/her credits as well, and maybe the upgrades for his/her guns. Oh, need to magically covert some to omni-gel, too. Lookit that, auto-hacking galore, too."



Taking "loot" while on a mission just totally destroys immersion for me. "Don't mind me, just lugging around <150 items of various preposterous sizes."



And why do people have a fascination with looting corpses, anyway?



"Hey, check me out, I'm wearing armor I got from a dead guy. Even got his guns and credits to boot. Tax free!"

[deimosmasque]

*laughs* Yes for all those people out there insisting on playing "Pure Paragon" I think it's funny that none of them have problems, breaking into safes and storage lockers, hacking computers and stealing weapons, credits and items from corpses.

[Crimson Fluf]

I don't think it breaks immersion. Yet in some areas I like some things that do break immersion. Like being able to toggle your helmet in ME1. I would where it for combat situations and take it off in a rest area. Using ME2's system on a mission like Noveria would be hard for me for you'd have to choose whether or not to wear the helmet for the civil part of the mission and not for the combat portion or vice versa.

[Chained_Creator]

deimosmasque wrote...

*laughs* Yes for all those people out there insisting on playing "Pure Paragon" I think it's funny that none of them have problems, breaking into safes and storage lockers, hacking computers and stealing weapons, credits and items from corpses.

I don't know, "tax free" is a mightly compelling reason to do something.

Well, okay, maybe not "spending a year dead" or anything but...still, tax free!

[addiction21]

deimosmasque wrote...

*laughs* Yes for all those people out there insisting on playing "Pure Paragon" I think it's funny that none of them have problems, breaking into safes and storage lockers, hacking computers and stealing weapons, credits and items from corpses.

Thats what makes a RPG a RPG. NPC's do not mind you stealing their goods and wandering around their homes taking stuff from their treasure boxes

[deimosmasque]

Still not a very "Paragon" thing to do. I've never had a problem with mainly because I don't believe in "pure" game plays.