209 réponses à ce sujet

[EricHVela]

deimosmasque wrote...

*laughs* Yes for all those people out there insisting on playing "Pure Paragon" I think it's funny that none of them have problems, breaking into safes and storage lockers, hacking computers and stealing weapons, credits and items from corpses.

Yeah. Nearby characters should object when you've entered their apartment and are helping yourself to bypassing their safe's security.

And that Renegade scarring. Nobody ever seemed to notice. If someone with glowing red scratching and eyes approached me... well, I would think it was a neat trick and wonder how they did it, but I think the characters in-game would be taken aback by such an appearance in a Human.

[ABCoLD]

deimosmasque wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

deimosmasque wrote...

How is a military squad only taking the weapons that they know how to use immersion breaking?

I'm not being snarky I'm actually curious.

Because your taking all of them with you with no clear way of how your  carrying them in the first place.

Oh I'm sorry I put that the wrong way.  I was asking ABCold how the ME2 inventory system was immersion breaking.  I already gave my long post on why ME1 makes no sense.

Well that answers the PM I sent you asking if you were talking to me, nevermind that guy now.

It breaks immersion in the sense that in ALL the universe, of a multi-thousand year old Asari culture, the insanely productive but short-lived Salarian society and with the hectic wars with Batarians and other terminus system members... in spite of all of that....

There are only four assault rifles and one machine gun worth using in the galaxy.  Four sniper rifles.  Four Shotguns.  Two heavy pistols.  Two machine pistols.  And a slew of heavy weapons that even someone as intelligent as Garrus or Grunt can't use. 

The variety and variance of weapons in the first game was at the very least interesting.  Yes there was a 'the best' gun in the first game, there is in this one too, you just get to it far faster. 

And speaking of immersion, as a military man, or one who speaks as such... have you ever heard of a reliable, dependable, top tier weapon being rendered obsolete in two years by any advance in body armor?  Where are my guns from the first game? 

[Solarias25]

The upgrades Bioware made to the system were fantastic. Mass Effect 2 took some of the emphasis off the weapons and put it into the amount of upgrades. I was a little sad however that there weren't that many pieces of armor in the game (there are only 2-6 pieces max for each different slot, not counting the full armors you get for pre-ordering and whatnot). However, this is still a massive upgrade from the old system. My immersion into the game has nothing to do with the way inventory is stored anyway, and if it interrupts your game play experience, go play Exalted, DnD, Pathfinder, or one of the other pen and paper RPGs out there. What seizes me about this game is that the fate of the universe is thrust onto the shoulders of one person and their menagerie of aliens from around the galaxy protecting it from things that everyone else refuse to believe in.

I understand the reasoning behind not getting items transfered from the first game...the ship and everything on it got destroyed .  Shepard also got spaced and spend the better part of 2 years on an operating table.   This game isn't about the quantity of items, though i were there were more choices, it's about the amount of upgrades you and your team get.  Think about it:  In the real world there are (I'm guessing here) about 20 different types of 45mm handguns.  Aside from aesthetics, why would you code them all into a game.   I accept that the one that your character can use to be the best, there are others out there, but why use them?   Why use the 50 credit gun when you can get the 50,000 credit gun?

Modifié par Solarias25, 14 février 2010 - 07:41 .

[ABCoLD]

addiction21 wrote...

deimosmasque wrote...

*laughs* Yes for all those people out there insisting on playing "Pure Paragon" I think it's funny that none of them have problems, breaking into safes and storage lockers, hacking computers and stealing weapons, credits and items from corpses.

Thats what makes a RPG a RPG. NPC's do not mind you stealing their goods and wandering around their homes taking stuff from their treasure boxes

Lol.  My friend once made a comment about this while playing Final Fantasy someteen.    Walking into someone's house, he found a chest that had an X-potion.  Immediately he screamed at the tv, "What are you doing with my STUFF?!"  I stared at him for a few seconds before he explained readily to me that if it was in someone else's house, he walked in and opened a chest and retrieved an item in front of them, and they didn't respond that obviously it wasn't theres and they'd in fact stolen it from him. 

[ABCoLD]

Solarias25 wrote...

The upgrades Bioware made to the system were fantastic. Mass Effect 2 took some of the emphasis off the weapons and put it into the amount of upgrades.

Yer seriously gonna tell me that having +10% Damage Bonus 1-5 and two unique upgrades per weapon class or so trip your trigger more than the two customizable mods for the first game+the plethora of fancy weapons?  Okay... that's cool.  I guess it takes all kinds.

[deimosmasque]

ABCoLD wrote...

deimosmasque wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

deimosmasque wrote...

How is a military squad only taking the weapons that they know how to use immersion breaking?

I'm not being snarky I'm actually curious.

Because your taking all of them with you with no clear way of how your  carrying them in the first place.

Oh I'm sorry I put that the wrong way.  I was asking ABCold how the ME2 inventory system was immersion breaking.  I already gave my long post on why ME1 makes no sense.

Well that answers the PM I sent you asking if you were talking to me, nevermind that guy now.

It breaks immersion in the sense that in ALL the universe, of a multi-thousand year old Asari culture, the insanely productive but short-lived Salarian society and with the hectic wars with Batarians and other terminus system members... in spite of all of that....

There are only four assault rifles and one machine gun worth using in the galaxy.  Four sniper rifles.  Four Shotguns.  Two heavy pistols.  Two machine pistols.  And a slew of heavy weapons that even someone as intelligent as Garrus or Grunt can't use. 

The variety and variance of weapons in the first game was at the very least interesting.  Yes there was a 'the best' gun in the first game, there is in this one too, you just get to it far faster. 

And speaking of immersion, as a military man, or one who speaks as such... have you ever heard of a reliable, dependable, top tier weapon being rendered obsolete in two years by any advance in body armor?  Where are my guns from the first game? 

Okay I can get that.  That is a very logical and rational arguement, very non-reactionary as many complaints on these boards tend to be.  And you right, new body armor tends to not obsolete top-tier weapons in a span of two-years.  Something to consider though is that there has been a tech change in the last year as the "heat-sink" guns have replaced their older models, so there is some catch-up being played in that part.

The Heavy Weapons issue I felt was the same issue of gernades in the first game.  You don't want the AI "deciding" when to use Heavy Weapons and having them waste it on worthless targets, heck they do that enough with their powers.

So the real solution seems to be... more variety in guns and upgrades in ME3, but have them be attained as it was in ME2.

[Dark_Caduceus]

I like the ME2 system a great deal, just needs more selection. ME2's item management might be "dumbed down" but i still consider that better than redundant.

[ABCoLD]

deimosmasque wrote...

Okay I can get that.  That is a very logical and rational arguement, very non-reactionary as many complaints on these boards tend to be.  And you right, new body armor tends to not obsolete top-tier weapons in a span of two-years.  Something to consider though is that there has been a tech change in the last year as the "heat-sink" guns have replaced their older models, so there is some catch-up being played in that part.

The Heavy Weapons issue I felt was the same issue of gernades in the first game.  You don't want the AI "deciding" when to use Heavy Weapons and having them waste it on worthless targets, heck they do that enough with their powers.

So the real solution seems to be... more variety in guns and upgrades in ME3, but have them be attained as it was in ME2.

Considering that upon waking up that Commander Shepard knew/expected there to be a 'Thermal Clip' for the pistol in the locker means that the change somehow happened between the end of the first game and when he died at the start of the second.  So at least military personnel were getting preview weapons by that point.  But this gets into the ammo/heat sink issue which I don't think we want to touch on here.

I would like to see more and greater variety of weapons in ME2/3 but also customization, moving from a static upgrade system to a dynamic one you can choose for at least yourself. 

Off the top of my head some examples of this would be ammo mods:  Expanded Thermal Capacity (More rounds per T. clip) or you can choose a Cooling clip (less rounds per clip but when not fired the current clip slowly regenerates as it sheds heat) or just normal ammo to start.  Another would be Barrel Mods.  A heavy accelerator increases damage while a smooth bore would reduce heat generation (increase ammo) while a rifled bore increases accuracy. 

Those are just some ideas off the top of my head.  Generally what I really want from the system is a way to take the weapons they give you and just truly make them yours.  This is one respect where the first game at least attempts to surpass while the second game gives up any attempt for TPSmediocrity.

[Ryuushin]

ME1 inventory system is a big pile of *beep* why the hell u want it back? And since when looting defines what rpg is

Modifié par Ryuushin, 14 février 2010 - 08:09 .

[Kwonnern]

I'd have Inventory back ONLY if we could wield King's Sword of Haste with three Zod-runes in it.

[slicer477]

Shepard should become genetically modified to become half Reaper in ME3 and the inventory should be made superior to enact this.

[stillnotking]

No, no, no, no no no no no.

Getting rid of the bloated and stupid inventory system was the best thing they changed in ME2.

[Doug84]

Tooneyman wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

The inventory system was crap and I'm happy it is gone. Having piles of useless garbage dumped on me fight after fight that I had to either sell or omni-gel to get rid of got old really damned fast.

I want to play a game. If I wanted to do that, I would go sift through my neighbor's trash for recyclables.

I like the way loot works in this game, it cuts out the middle man. You only pick up things that are USEFUL. Anything you pick up that ISN'T useful is immediately converted to credits via a "bounty system". It's really ****ing intelligent.

The ONLY problem with the inventory system in ME2 is that I have no renewable income.

I want to play an RPG not an Action game. Understand! (RPG)! That means ROLE PLAYING GAME! Loot comes with the territory. Do you understand. Mass Effect is an RPG! RPG! Lets keep it that way. I've hear more people wanting the inventory back then most. It wasn't crap because I could sell the stuff for major money and use only the good stuff. That was why their was a trader on your ship. Duh! If you remember playing ME 1. I would use only the stuff that mattered and then sell the rest for credits. I loved it, it was one of my biggest turn ons to mass effect to begin with. I want my inventory back, son. Nothing more nothing less!

Hell no! Carrying around 5 metric tonnes of crap because you didn't spend 5 hours after the last mission working out if any of it is marginally better than you're current guns has NOTHING to do with ROLE PLAYING. It might be the crap "RPG fans" accept, but its always been a pain in the arse.

[Doug84]

ABCoLD wrote...

deimosmasque wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

deimosmasque wrote...

How is a military squad only taking the weapons that they know how to use immersion breaking?

I'm not being snarky I'm actually curious.

Because your taking all of them with you with no clear way of how your  carrying them in the first place.

Oh I'm sorry I put that the wrong way.  I was asking ABCold how the ME2 inventory system was immersion breaking.  I already gave my long post on why ME1 makes no sense.

Well that answers the PM I sent you asking if you were talking to me, nevermind that guy now.

It breaks immersion in the sense that in ALL the universe, of a multi-thousand year old Asari culture, the insanely productive but short-lived Salarian society and with the hectic wars with Batarians and other terminus system members... in spite of all of that....

There are only four assault rifles and one machine gun worth using in the galaxy.  Four sniper rifles.  Four Shotguns.  Two heavy pistols.  Two machine pistols.  And a slew of heavy weapons that even someone as intelligent as Garrus or Grunt can't use. 

The variety and variance of weapons in the first game was at the very least interesting.  Yes there was a 'the best' gun in the first game, there is in this one too, you just get to it far faster. 

And speaking of immersion, as a military man, or one who speaks as such... have you ever heard of a reliable, dependable, top tier weapon being rendered obsolete in two years by any advance in body armor?  Where are my guns from the first game? 

Because its alot less immension breaking to have 100 different suits of armour, 100 guns, and 50 gun mods on hand at any point during the mission....<_<

[Girchou]

Maybe we could have a re-worked inventory system...just get rid of the clutter.

[i7206]

I'll say this...about that. If you were playing ME1 for the epic lootz, then you were doing it wrong.

[RequiemValorum]

 Oh god not this again!

ME1's inventory system is just wrong in every sense of the word. It was clunky and generally broke.

They got rid of it the game is better.

With Regards to loot,I'll let Commander Shepard handle that one: www.youtube.com/watch

[Doug84]

i7206 wrote...

I'll say this...about that. If you were playing ME1 for the epic lootz, then you were doing it wrong.

Agreed!

[Tooneyman]

I like loot. Every RPG game I get loot whether its final Fantasy or DA:O. I like my loot. In ME 1 I could change my characters armor in the middle of battle with any upgrade of my choosing to handle a fight. Now I have to choose my weapon I need to use right before I start a fight. That is just plain ridicious. I want to be able to change my armor when I want to and change my weapon seletion when I want too. RPG are about freedom. I feel confined in that element of deciding what I want to wear, I just like being able to change my armor when I want too. Not have to go back to normandy and wait like two crapy load screens for it to let me change my armor. I don't care about anything else. I just like having the ablility to change things when I wanted not. Having to go back and forth. I didn't complain about the old system and so what if it had flaws. It also had some serious potential. The just did away with the whole thing. That was retarded. They should have just tweaked it better to make it easier to balance out for you casual players and us HARDCORE RPGers and yes I am. Final Fantasy 13 here I come woohoo!

[marshalleck]

Honestly, go play Borderlands. It's everything you want, and more. Hell it even has multiplayer so you can trade your loot with friends.

[Tooneyman]

marshalleck wrote...

Honestly, go play Borderlands. It's everything you want, and more. Hell it even has multiplayer so you can trade your loot with friends.

Thats a shooter like diablo. I don't like diablo. I like story aahhhh! Whats wrong with people. I an armor **** straight up armor ****. I collect all different pieces of armor just to look cool. I don't even care what it does for my character as long as it makes him/her looks awesome I want it. Thats why I love fallout 3. Its why I loved OBlivion. Its why I love DRAgon age.

I need to come down my mouth is watering thinking about all these things.

[addiction21]

Tooneyman wrote...

I like loot. Every RPG game I get loot whether its final Fantasy or DA:O. I like my loot. In ME 1 I could change my characters armor in the middle of battle with any upgrade of my choosing to handle a fight. Now I have to choose my weapon I need to use right before I start a fight. That is just plain ridicious. I want to be able to change my armor when I want to and change my weapon seletion when I want too. RPG are about freedom. I feel confined in that element of deciding what I want to wear, I just like being able to change my armor when I want too. Not have to go back to normandy and wait like two crapy load screens for it to let me change my armor. I don't care about anything else. I just like having the ablility to change things when I wanted not. Having to go back and forth. I didn't complain about the old system and so what if it had flaws. It also had some serious potential. The just did away with the whole thing. That was retarded. They should have just tweaked it better to make it easier to balance out for you casual players and us HARDCORE RPGers and yes I am. Final Fantasy 13 here I come woohoo!

Wow. Theres no need to repeat your self 17 times. Also its funny you equate rpg's with freedom then go on to say "FF13 here I come"
All ME1 was was using the item with the bigger numbers. Whats so free about that? In ME2 you get to choose what type of bonus you would like to add to your armor. Or would you like the semi auto sniper rifle with mild damage or the big bang one that you have to reload every time. How about the AR that fires in bursts with good damage or the one with less damage but you can spray baddies to death with with.
I guess getting to "choose" between 100 guns that are weaker and have no other defining charactristics then the one you are using at the moment is freedom.

[Doug84]

Tooneyman wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Honestly, go play Borderlands. It's everything you want, and more. Hell it even has multiplayer so you can trade your loot with friends.

Thats a shooter like diablo. I don't like diablo. I like story aahhhh! Whats wrong with people. I an armor **** straight up armor ****. I collect all different pieces of armor just to look cool. I don't even care what it does for my character as long as it makes him/her looks awesome I want it. Thats why I love fallout 3. Its why I loved OBlivion. Its why I love DRAgon age.

I need to come down my mouth is watering thinking about all these things.

And I like story. Not accountancy. Which is what alot of RPGs on the market boil down too. I love Dragon Age, but I don't think the inventory is anything to get exicted about.

If you just want armour that looks awesome, thats nothing to do with the inventory, thats to do with customization - which whilst the game does have, is alittle lacking in options in my view too.

[Unato]

i just like to say boarderlands has a story and a damm good one too

carry on

PS ME1 inventory system is crap

Modifié par Unato, 14 février 2010 - 02:50 .

[MaaZeus]

I agree, I want inventory back to ME3. Now, some people here complained say that they are happy with inventory gone in ME2 because it was a hassle in ME1, well NO S*** SHERLOCK! ME1 inventory system was botched up clearly, that is common knowledge in the whole world of RPG games.

I said in another thread that RPG games have had a perfectly fine inventory and item listing system since late '80s. For example who the hell in Bioware thought that it would be a good idea to list every item you have as single entities? Why not have the item name and then a number next to it representing how much of them you have, IE "Tunsten Round IV x54" and such. Even with the abysmal amount of different items (definetly needed cleaning up btw) you get in ME1, with that old RPG inventory system its always clean. You would never really get episodes where you stop your gaming for 20 minutes and start browsing through your items and scrapping them to omnigel.

Inventory system of ME1 needed a desperate remake, not removal. Its like amputating a finger because you have a some injury in it that makes it hard to use.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 14 février 2010 - 02:52 .