209 réponses à ce sujet

[Railstay]

Lets see...  What did the inventory system do for me?

• Made me sit there selling and omni-geling a bunch of crap so the game wouldn't complain to me about my inventory getting full, ad-naseum.
• Never, ever made me swap out my weapons.  Ever.  The items in ME1 were a completely linear progression.  Once you got the Spectre gear, there was no point in using anything else...  Thus, the inventory becoming useless anyway.
• Made me use the same upgrades on every weapon.  Double Scram VIIs and HE X on the SR.  Why use anything else?  Why use anything else but Scram Xs on a Pistol with Marksman spam, either?
• Made me open up the inventory, go through every character's gun and replace their ammo with the one I need for a fight against organics/geth.  Now I just click a skill button.

I guess if it allowed me to swap what type of gun I'd be using -- guns that are different, not cleary superior -- then I'd be open to the idea of an inventory system again.  But I also don't relish the idea sitting there spamming sell sell sell sell sell sell just so the game won't whine at me.  It would also make balancing the game's enemies more difficult, yet again.

So I vote no.  I think the people who had fun being forced to omnigel or spam the sell button after every planet are in the clear minority.  Asking for it back is like hearing someone ask for a rest and food system in Mass Effect, where Commander Shepard and his squad all need to eat and sleep throughout the game or they will die.  It's pointless busy work.

[Railstay]

Lmaoboat wrote...

What they should have done is make it like Baldur's Gate, where most non-generic items have their own stats and lore behind them. The loot in BG really rewarded exploring. I think it would be really awesome to vault over some crates, and find some famous incendiary heavy pistol of a long-dead raider.

I like this idea too.  The side missions would've been really rewarding if there was a possibility of getting a new type of armor, experimental weapon, etc.  The recruitment missions have this to some extent, and the weapons you get are nice, but they are available to everyone in the squad.  You don't really get anything iconic to yourself except on the Collector Ship.

But you can also do this without an inventory system.  Certain games can make great use of it, just like certain games can make great use of forcing the character to sleep or forage for food, but these elements should have no place in a series like Mass Effect.

[Railstay]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

You think it is not realistic. OK. Obviously there were problems with the old inventory/loot system....

Frankly... Nobody cared about how much you can carry, but if you want realism then I understand that. Still, instead of dumping it one could improve it.  Inventories could be smaller. You could distribute stuff among the team members. You could carry it back to the Hammerhead or shuttle. Just a few ideas.

But the idea with streamlining is to eliminate redundancy when possible, not merely reduce it. All you're really doing there is keeping the exact same system but arbitrarily resetting the boundaries. It wouldn't eliminate the original complaints (which did crop up as I've voiced them in this thread, I know because I was there) and would likely spark new ones about how the inventory system got "dumbed down" from 150 slots to X.

One of the things people didn't like was that it was hard to get high-end BioAmps, OmniTools, weapons and armor. Or did you forget that? Instead BW could make sure sure shops had them more easily available or that they became part of the (random or non-random) loot..

I guess they could do that if they wanted to keep the old bad system, which they didn't. So I guess this is kind of an academic point at best.

Talking about realism... I now find plans for an upgrade. I then go fiddling with the mouse or game controller for about an hour to scan for resources (exciting!), I then walk to to the research station, click on the plan and hoopla! Everybody has that gun now. Is that realism? Riiiiiight.

Scanning for resources isn't nearly as painful as people make it out to be. I wouldn't be surprised if it's mostly rooted in ignorance--I was talking to a coworker the other day who has been playing ME2 since release and he didn't know that Miranda can upgrade the scanner to move more quickly. Durp. Regardless, given the community stink about this mechanic I fully expect it to be eliminated in ME3, and I won't necessarily be upset about it. As for the weapon replication, yes it makes complete sense. The Normandy has fabrication facilities.

What did the new system stream line? Scanning for hours with the mouse or game controller doesn't sound like stream lining. Nor does it sound realistic that I can drop plans in a machine and second later my ship has been upgraded with new shields or that I have half a dozen of new pistols just because there is a "fabrication facility". Nor does it make sense that Miranda genetic manipulated hair with the strongest gel in the galaxy stays in place in vacuum, just because I cannot give her a proper armor and helmet.

The whole idea is not academic. Point your eyes to one of the sticky threads and you'll notice a thread which contains a wishlist for ME3. Did you notice that? Good.

It's great that you and your colleague love scanning. I don't.

I play on PC, so scanning was pretty easy for me.  I understand it's more frustrating on 360, but the time you spend scanning on a first time playthrough comes out to what?  Maybe an hour all put together for all the reserach you need in the game -- far less once you do an NG+ or if you've imported an ME1 save, and even less than that if your ME1 character beat the game on Insanity and is maxed out at Level 60.

If someone did the math, the time you spend driving the Mako pretty much not doing anything but busywork in order to reach an actual objective probably would amount to somewhere in the range of 2-3 hours.  And starting a new save game doesn't alleviate that.

I'm sure if Bioware released a DLC upgrade for the scanner which has an arrow pointing to big mineral spikes -- like it does now for anamolies -- people would ease up on their criticism of it, but it's still way more preferable to the Mako.

Your other criticisms are just silly.  Would you have the game force you to wait six months on a space station to have all this new equipment installed?  The idea of an Armory capable of producing small arms weapons is ridiculous to you?  As a rule, guns are simple and cheap to make.  They would be useless if they were a precious commodity that you cannot outfit an entire army with.  In general, it is incredibly difficult to model hair in video games.  That's why the trope of the grizzled, buzz-cut space marine is more pragmatic than thematic -- making convincing hair on a game character takes up a lot of resources.  You can't suspend your disbelief of the game because of Miranda's hair?  How heartbroken were you when you realized that the detail of Mass Effect 2 is nowhere close to real life?  Or when you realized that, by sheer coincidence, nearly every sapient race in the galaxy is a bipedal humanoid that communicates vocally, and they all look eerily similar to our own planet's reptiles, birds and even squids.

The inventory system sucked.

[Tassigny]

Railstay wrote...

Lets see...  What did the inventory system do for me?

• Made me sit there selling and omni-geling a bunch of crap so the game wouldn't complain to me about my inventory getting full, ad-naseum.
• Never, ever made me swap out my weapons.  Ever.  The items in ME1 were a completely linear progression.  Once you got the Spectre gear, there was no point in using anything else...  Thus, the inventory becoming useless anyway.
• Made me use the same upgrades on every weapon.  Double Scram VIIs and HE X on the SR.  Why use anything else?  Why use anything else but Scram Xs on a Pistol with Marksman spam, either?
• Made me open up the inventory, go through every character's gun and replace their ammo with the one I need for a fight against organics/geth.  Now I just click a skill button.

I guess if it allowed me to swap what type of gun I'd be using -- guns that are different, not cleary superior -- then I'd be open to the idea of an inventory system again.  But I also don't relish the idea sitting there spamming sell sell sell sell sell sell just so the game won't whine at me.  It would also make balancing the game's enemies more difficult, yet again.

So I vote no.  I think the people who had fun being forced to omnigel or spam the sell button after every planet are in the clear minority.  Asking for it back is like hearing someone ask for a rest and food system in Mass Effect, where Commander Shepard and his squad all need to eat and sleep throughout the game or they will die.  It's pointless busy work.

Indeed.

Modifié par Tassigny, 14 février 2010 - 05:38 .

[Gill Kaiser]

Tooneyman wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

The inventory system was crap and I'm happy it is gone. Having piles of useless garbage dumped on me fight after fight that I had to either sell or omni-gel to get rid of got old really damned fast.

I want to play a game. If I wanted to do that, I would go sift through my neighbor's trash for recyclables.

I like the way loot works in this game, it cuts out the middle man. You only pick up things that are USEFUL. Anything you pick up that ISN'T useful is immediately converted to credits via a "bounty system". It's really ****ing intelligent.

The ONLY problem with the inventory system in ME2 is that I have no renewable income.

I want to play an RPG not an Action game. Understand! (RPG)! That means ROLE PLAYING GAME! Loot comes with the territory. Do you understand. Mass Effect is an RPG! RPG! Lets keep it that way. I've hear more people wanting the inventory back then most. It wasn't crap because I could sell the stuff for major money and use only the good stuff. That was why their was a trader on your ship. Duh! If you remember playing ME 1. I would use only the stuff that mattered and then sell the rest for credits. I loved it, it was one of my biggest turn ons to mass effect to begin with. I want my inventory back, son. Nothing more nothing less!

Look, I'm a big RPG fan and I would support the reinsertion of an inventory in ME3, but if you seriously think that the inventory and item system in ME1 was good, you need to take off your rose-tinted glasses. The item management and loot system in that game was appalling.

[Striker1246]

agreed

[Doug84]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Tooneyman wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

The inventory system was crap and I'm happy it is gone. Having piles of useless garbage dumped on me fight after fight that I had to either sell or omni-gel to get rid of got old really damned fast.

I want to play a game. If I wanted to do that, I would go sift through my neighbor's trash for recyclables.

I like the way loot works in this game, it cuts out the middle man. You only pick up things that are USEFUL. Anything you pick up that ISN'T useful is immediately converted to credits via a "bounty system". It's really ****ing intelligent.

The ONLY problem with the inventory system in ME2 is that I have no renewable income.

I want to play an RPG not an Action game. Understand! (RPG)! That means ROLE PLAYING GAME! Loot comes with the territory. Do you understand. Mass Effect is an RPG! RPG! Lets keep it that way. I've hear more people wanting the inventory back then most. It wasn't crap because I could sell the stuff for major money and use only the good stuff. That was why their was a trader on your ship. Duh! If you remember playing ME 1. I would use only the stuff that mattered and then sell the rest for credits. I loved it, it was one of my biggest turn ons to mass effect to begin with. I want my inventory back, son. Nothing more nothing less!

Look, I'm a big RPG fan and I would support the reinsertion of an inventory in ME3, but if you seriously think that the inventory and item system in ME1 was good, you need to take off your rose-tinted glasses. The item management and loot system in that game was appalling.

Hence why everyone thinks Tooneyman is a troll - not because he wants an inventory, because he thinks the ME1 inventory was good.

[JRM01]

I'm with the topic starter on this. I really miss the customization options from ME1. They dumbed down the game a lot for the masses, but at least put in an option so the people who do understand the gameplay can do the full customization part. I would like to be able to customize my team members stats to my own insight, instead of the current generalised upgrade system.. In my opinion it would greatly enhance the overall gameplay experience.

That said, I'm getting ME3 whatever their doing to it, just because I'm a total fanboy of the Mass Effect...

Modifié par JRM01, 14 février 2010 - 06:27 .

[MassEffect762]

"They should've improved the old system. Reinventing a wheel is a waste of time."



Getting rid of the # variants of weapons, armor, upgrades would have gone long way to "fixing" ME1s inventory.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Railstay wrote...

Lets see...  What did the inventory system do for me?

• Made me sit there selling and omni-geling a bunch of crap so the game wouldn't complain to me about my inventory getting full, ad-naseum.
• Never, ever made me swap out my weapons.  Ever.  The items in ME1 were a completely linear progression.  Once you got the Spectre gear, there was no point in using anything else...  Thus, the inventory becoming useless anyway.
• Made me use the same upgrades on every weapon.  Double Scram VIIs and HE X on the SR.  Why use anything else?  Why use anything else but Scram Xs on a Pistol with Marksman spam, either?
• Made me open up the inventory, go through every character's gun and replace their ammo with the one I need for a fight against organics/geth.  Now I just click a skill button.

I guess if it allowed me to swap what type of gun I'd be using -- guns that are different, not cleary superior -- then I'd be open to the idea of an inventory system again.  But I also don't relish the idea sitting there spamming sell sell sell sell sell sell just so the game won't whine at me.  It would also make balancing the game's enemies more difficult, yet again.

So I vote no.  I think the people who had fun being forced to omnigel or spam the sell button after every planet are in the clear minority.  Asking for it back is like hearing someone ask for a rest and food system in Mass Effect, where Commander Shepard and his squad all need to eat and sleep throughout the game or they will die.  It's pointless busy work.

You have some good points there. I can understand why you wouldn't want an inventory system. I don't agree, because I see more disadvantages in the new system.

If a new inventory system is to be brought back (just assume that for a second) then we need to address concerns like yours. Let's see...

One of the major problems I had with the new system is that it was hard to find high end gear, so I am trying to find a solution for that as well.

There was way too much loot, so in the end you reached the maximum amount of money and you had to turn it into omnigel. A simple solution could be to have less loot and abandon random loot. Gear can be found at certain location in the game only and you have to fight for it (or do some other mission) to get it and some stuff you can buy. Depending on the order you play, you would still find stuff you wouldn't want to use, but you could sell those. There would be less loot, so no need to worry about that anymore. Also, we will be able to find high end gear sooner or later.

I did swap armor from time to time. If there was a planet with some kind of hazard then I wore an armor that could deal with that. But once I entered a building I changed it for my regular armor, which was better suited for combat. So, I really like to have that option. Currently there is no need, because we don't have the Hammerhead yet, but it is my guess that it will change.

There are some situations in which I want to change weapons during a mission. For some reason the game has placed some magical devices throughout the galaxy that have access to my weapons on the Normandy. It didn't matter if I was at a collector ship or in an abandoned mine, you could find them. Hehe. Having access to that everywhere may be silly, but the ME2 system is just as silly. I rather have that option available everywhere.

I didn't use the same upgrades for all weapons. I made sure that my sniper riffle did the most damage and didn't care about overheating. The other weapons had some kind of heat reductions add on. I guess it is probably much like you say.

To change the ammo could still work the same with an inventory system. How about the game looking in your inventory and if it finds a ammo there it makes the easy to click option available. I think having ammo as a skill is odd. I mean... Does the skill activate special muscles in finger so I can pull the trigger any better? It's weird if you think about it. Especially, because a lot of people didn't like the old weapon skill system. The game is leveled anyway, so you should be able to buy or find ammo at given levels. That means distributing skill points to ammo wouldn't be required.

Hmmm. Using the current trend to dumb things down I have even dumbed it down some more in favor for the inventory system. How's that? Hehe.

Another plus for the inventory system is that it allows you to use stuff the moment you find or buy it. There is no need to go back to the ship, scan for resources, walk to the lab to select it and/or walk to the armory to equip it. That's a bit tedious if you ask me. I think it is more work than the current system saves.

Another concern that people mention is that you only wanted to use the best gear that there was no use for any other. I think that it is a dead argument, because in the new system you have that as well. Some weapons are only used at the start of the game and once upgraded you never use the old ones again. Nothing new here. That has little to do with the inventory system.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 14 février 2010 - 07:08 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Railstay wrote...

I play on PC, so scanning was pretty easy for me.  I understand it's more frustrating on 360, but the time you spend scanning on a first time playthrough comes out to what?  Maybe an hour all put together for all the reserach you need in the game -- far less once you do an NG+ or if you've imported an ME1 save, and even less than that if your ME1 character beat the game on Insanity and is maxed out at Level 60.

If someone did the math, the time you spend driving the Mako pretty much not doing anything but busywork in order to reach an actual objective probably would amount to somewhere in the range of 2-3 hours.  And starting a new save game doesn't alleviate that.

I'm sure if Bioware released a DLC upgrade for the scanner which has an arrow pointing to big mineral spikes -- like it does now for anamolies -- people would ease up on their criticism of it, but it's still way more preferable to the Mako.

Your other criticisms are just silly.  Would you have the game force you to wait six months on a space station to have all this new equipment installed?  The idea of an Armory capable of producing small arms weapons is ridiculous to you?  As a rule, guns are simple and cheap to make.  They would be useless if they were a precious commodity that you cannot outfit an entire army with.  In general, it is incredibly difficult to model hair in video games.  That's why the trope of the grizzled, buzz-cut space marine is more pragmatic than thematic -- making convincing hair on a game character takes up a lot of resources.  You can't suspend your disbelief of the game because of Miranda's hair?  How heartbroken were you when you realized that the detail of Mass Effect 2 is nowhere close to real life?  Or when you realized that, by sheer coincidence, nearly every sapient race in the galaxy is a bipedal humanoid that communicates vocally, and they all look eerily similar to our own planet's reptiles, birds and even squids.

The inventory system sucked.

I play on the PC too. And I understand that it takes longer on a console. As far as I know, people spend between one or two hours scanning per game. That's way too much for me. Sorry. I hate it. Even if it was 15 minutes.

Yes, the fabrication thingie is silly to me. I don't mind it is silly, though. The same goes for swapping armor in the middle of a battle. It's silly. But one system is easier then the other and all the fiddling with scanning, researching and armory doesn't make it faster to me. If both things are silly then I rather have the faster silly inventory system.

Edit: About the sucking inventory system, I have tried to find solutions for that in the post above this one.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 14 février 2010 - 06:50 .

[RE0305]

I like the new system, the number of guns is good in my opinion since they are all pretty different.

What i would like is to be able to customize those weapons and loadouts, and if possible to be able to see those
different mods on my weapons in battle.

[AngryFrozenWater]

In the new system I have no idea what a weapon's stats are, The same goes for armor. I have no idea what armor is the best. The old system allowed you to compare stuff and based on the stats and description you could select an item. That is completely gone now. The people who designed that feature in the inventory and in the shops actually did a very good job. Now it has become a guessing game. But I hear no one complaining, so it must only be me then.

[ABCoLD]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

First of all, if it's taking you "hours" to scan, you're doing it seriously wrong. Hit rich planets, mine them till Moderate or lower, and move on. Takes 20 minutes assuming you've got the 50k resource bonus. Which amusingly enough is probably less time than spent dicking around in your inventory in ME1, wishing that the Gods had been good enough to at least have let Bioware add an "Omni-Gel all" button.

Seriously, if it took you that long to omni-gel things in ME1 you're doing it seriously wrong.  Especially after you get Specter gear and Colossus X armor you just omni-gel everything else and all the upgrades except the ones you use and spend about thirty seconds in maintenance after the end of each assignment after that, easy peasy.

MassEffect762 wrote...

"They should've improved the old system. Reinventing a wheel is a waste of time."

Getting rid of the # variants of weapons, armor, upgrades would have gone long way to "fixing" ME1s inventory.

I'll never support reducing the variety of weapons and armor in a game. 


As I said WAAAAAY back before the trolls (on both sides) took over this convo... The complaint about the ME2 inventory system for me isn't that the first one was great, it's that this one frankly is horrible too.  They took an overly complicated, labyrinthine system and instead replaced it with one that is so simple it borders on redundancy to call it an inventory system, it's simply a weapons select menu.

ABCoLD wrote...

It
breaks immersion in the sense that in ALL the universe, of a
multi-thousand year old Asari culture, the insanely productive but
short-lived Salarian society and with the hectic wars with Batarians
and other terminus system members... in spite of all of that....

There
are only four assault rifles and one machine gun worth using in the
galaxy.  Four sniper rifles.  Four Shotguns.  Two heavy pistols.  Two
machine pistols.  And a slew of heavy weapons that even someone as
intelligent as Garrus or Grunt can't use. 

The variety
and variance of weapons in the first game was at the very least
interesting.  Yes there was a 'the best' gun in the first game, there
is in this one too, you just get to it far faster. 

And this:

ABCoLD wrote...

I would
like to see more and greater variety of weapons in ME2/3 but also
customization, moving from a static upgrade system to a dynamic one you
can choose for at least yourself. 

Off the top of my head some
examples of this would be clip mods:  Expanded Thermal Capacity (More
rounds per T. clip) or you can choose a Cooling clip (less rounds per
clip but when not fired the current clip slowly regenerates as it sheds
heat) or just normal clip to start.  Another would be Barrel Mods.  A
heavy accelerator increases damage while a smooth bore would reduce
heat generation (increase ammo) while a rifled bore increases
accuracy. 

Generally what I really want from the system is a way to take the
weapons they give you and just truly make them yours.  This is one
respect where the first game at least attempts to surpass while the
second game gives up any attempt for TPSmediocrity. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]

Anyone who thinks that ME2 is the best solution to the question of inventory and item management... I respectfully disagree!

[Railstay]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Railstay wrote...

Lets see...  What did the inventory system do for me?

• Made me sit there selling and omni-geling a bunch of crap so the game wouldn't complain to me about my inventory getting full, ad-naseum.
• Never, ever made me swap out my weapons.  Ever.  The items in ME1 were a completely linear progression.  Once you got the Spectre gear, there was no point in using anything else...  Thus, the inventory becoming useless anyway.
• Made me use the same upgrades on every weapon.  Double Scram VIIs and HE X on the SR.  Why use anything else?  Why use anything else but Scram Xs on a Pistol with Marksman spam, either?
• Made me open up the inventory, go through every character's gun and replace their ammo with the one I need for a fight against organics/geth.  Now I just click a skill button.

I guess if it allowed me to swap what type of gun I'd be using -- guns that are different, not cleary superior -- then I'd be open to the idea of an inventory system again.  But I also don't relish the idea sitting there spamming sell sell sell sell sell sell just so the game won't whine at me.  It would also make balancing the game's enemies more difficult, yet again.

So I vote no.  I think the people who had fun being forced to omnigel or spam the sell button after every planet are in the clear minority.  Asking for it back is like hearing someone ask for a rest and food system in Mass Effect, where Commander Shepard and his squad all need to eat and sleep throughout the game or they will die.  It's pointless busy work.

You have some good points there. I can understand why you wouldn't want an inventory system. I don't agree, because I see more disadvantages in the new system.

If a new inventory system is to be brought back (just assume that for a second) then we need to address concerns like yours. Let's see...

One of the major problems I had with the new system is that it was hard to find high end gear, so I am trying to find a solution for that as well.

What?  Every single squad member in my party had either Colossus or Pred X armor, and all of them also had a full set of Spectre X guns.  That's why the inventory system was useless.  What's the point of having it around if you never swap your weapons out again?

There was way too much loot, so in the end you reached the maximum amount of money and you had to turn it into omnigel. A simple solution could be to have less loot and abandon random loot. Gear can be found at certain location in the game only and you have to fight for it (or do some other mission) to get it and some stuff you can buy. Depending on the order you play, you would still find stuff you wouldn't want to use, but you could sell those. There would be less loot, so no need to worry about that anymore. Also, we will be able to find high end gear sooner or later.

Okay, but what's the point?  Now you have less loot but an inventory system you still don't need.

I did swap armor from time to time. If there was a planet with some kind of hazard then I wore an armor that could deal with that. But once I entered a building I changed it for my regular armor, which was better suited for combat. So, I really like to have that option. Currently there is no need, because we don't have the Hammerhead yet, but it is my guess that it will change.

When you start finding Medical Exoskeleton Xs, which are again extremely common, you never swap your upgrades out.  Ever.

There are some situations in which I want to change weapons during a mission. For some reason the game has placed some magical devices throughout the galaxy that have access to my weapons on the Normandy. It didn't matter if I was at a collector ship or in an abandoned mine, you could find them. Hehe. Having access to that everywhere may be silly, but the ME2 system is just as silly. I rather have that option available everywhere.

When we're getting into programming here, what's more feasible?  Creating an entire inventory system just so the player can weapon swap occassionally, or having weapon armories throughout missions?  Where would you rather see money and time diverted to?  Choose carefully, because it means you end up getting shorted on other game content like story, characters and missions.

I didn't use the same upgrades for all weapons. I made sure that my sniper riffle did the most damage and didn't care about overheating. The other weapons had some kind of heat reductions add on. I guess it is probably much like you say.

So you did use the same upgrades for all the weapons.  I'm not saying that you used the same mods for ALL weapons, but once you got a certain set of mods for a weapon, those were all you would use.  You would never swap them out.  Hence, again, the inventory system is useless.

To change the ammo could still work the same with an inventory system. How about the game looking in your inventory and if it finds a ammo there it makes the easy to click option available. I think having ammo as a skill is odd. I mean... Does the skill activate special muscles in finger so I can pull the trigger any better? It's weird if you think about it. Especially, because a lot of people didn't like the old weapon skill system. The game is leveled anyway, so you should be able to buy or find ammo at given levels. That means distributing skill points to ammo wouldn't be required.

You just said click:  There's the taboo word.  Very few developers design games exclusively with PCs in mind anymore, and Bioware is not one of them.  So, not happening.  Also since ammo has become an iconic skill feature to characters in ME2, having any squad member able to use any kind of ammo would present balancing issues again.  Everyone in your squad will simply be too good and too effective for every type of situation.

And I don't understand why you're having such a difficult time understanding real-time ammo swapping.  You notice how a little holographic indicator comes up on your gun when you swap ammo?  So it's a stretch to believe your gun is switching into a different firing mode, but you readily accept technology that can literally reduce the mass of entire objects?  How did you even think that weapon swapping = push your finger really hard?  Huh?

Hmmm. Using the current trend to dumb things down I have even dumbed it down some more in favor for the inventory system. How's that? Hehe.

ME2 didn't "dumb things down".  Dumbing things down means removing the complexity in a game.  If anything, the game is far more complex.  ME1 didn't feature skill synergy, unique class abilities, locational damage and different types of kinetic barriers.

Think of what you're placing in the spectrum of complex.  How is spamming your sell key "complex"?  And how is getting rid of this feature "dumbing down"? 

Another plus for the inventory system is that it allows you to use stuff the moment you find or buy it. There is no need to go back to the ship, scan for resources, walk to the lab to select it and/or walk to the armory to equip it. That's a bit tedious if you ask me. I think it is more work than the current system saves.

Oh, right.  The one minute total I spent equipping something new I got weighed against the hour I spent in total spamming the "sell" key and mindlessly clicking "Omingel" "Yes" is far less tedious.

Clicking "Research" is definitely worse than that system.

Another concern that people mention is that you only wanted to use the best gear that there was no use for any other. I think that it is a dead argument, because in the new system you have that as well. Some weapons are only used at the start of the game and once upgraded you never use the old ones again. Nothing new here. That has little to do with the inventory system.

Uhhh.  No.

I still use the starting HP over the Carnifex.  Some people still prefer the Katana over the Scimitar, and the Scimitar over a Claymore.  Only a couple weapons are just clearly superior in this game, most of those are the upgrades you find on the Collector Ship.

Head on over to the Character Builds section of the forum and it may open your eyes.

Also, I'd much rather the dev team create a solid, flexible core group of weapons rather than spending time, money and manpower making a buffet of derivative and useless weapons you will never glance at again after you get the super weapons at the end of the game.  I'd rather have those resources put towards better combat, story, characters and missions, thanks.

[TerribleTruth]

Another post in favor of Mass Effect 2's lack of inventory.

Your character improves a bit every time you find an upgrade. It's the same thing as finding a higher numbered item from the last game but without the clutter, and your entire team can use it (useful since there are 12 of them).
Anyone who thinks managing the inventories of 12 characters sounds like their idea of fun should go play Microsoft Excel or something.

Modifié par TerribleTruth, 15 février 2010 - 01:52 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

[quote]Railstay wrote...

[quote]AngryFrozenWater wrote...

[quote]Railstay wrote...

Lets see...  What did the inventory system do for me?

• Made me sit there selling and omni-geling a bunch of crap so the game wouldn't complain to me about my inventory getting full, ad-naseum.
• Never, ever made me swap out my weapons.  Ever.  The items in ME1 were a completely linear progression.  Once you got the Spectre gear, there was no point in using anything else...  Thus, the inventory becoming useless anyway.
• Made me use the same upgrades on every weapon.  Double Scram VIIs and HE X on the SR.  Why use anything else?  Why use anything else but Scram Xs on a Pistol with Marksman spam, either?
• Made me open up the inventory, go through every character's gun and replace their ammo with the one I need for a fight against organics/geth.  Now I just click a skill button.

I guess if it allowed me to swap what type of gun I'd be using -- guns that are different, not cleary superior -- then I'd be open to the idea of an inventory system again.  But I also don't relish the idea sitting there spamming sell sell sell sell sell sell just so the game won't whine at me.  It would also make balancing the game's enemies more difficult, yet again.

So I vote no.  I think the people who had fun being forced to omnigel or spam the sell button after every planet are in the clear minority.  Asking for it back is like hearing someone ask for a rest and food system in Mass Effect, where Commander Shepard and his squad all need to eat and sleep throughout the game or they will die.  It's pointless busy work.[/quote]
You have some good points there. I can understand why you wouldn't want an inventory system. I don't agree, because I see more disadvantages in the new system.

If a new inventory system is to be brought back (just assume that for a second) then we need to address concerns like yours. Let's see...

One of the major problems I had with the new system is that it was hard to find high end gear, so I am trying to find a solution for that as well.[/quote]

What?  Every single squad member in my party had either Colossus or Pred X armor, and all of them also had a full set of Spectre X guns.  That's why the inventory system was useless.  What's the point of having it around if you never swap your weapons out again?[/quote]
Did you cheat? Or did you forget that you actually had to find or buy those armors? Just as you need to find and buy stuff now. The difference with an inventory system is that what you find and buy is available directly. There is no need to scan for resources, there is no need to walk to the labratory, there is no need to select the item there in order to produce it, there is no need to walk to the armory to equip the produced weapon or walk to your cabin to switch armor upgrades.

I am sorry, but that is a hell of a lot more work than just select the stuff you bought or found in your inventory. Use a stop watch if you are not convinced. The inventory takes a couple of seconds and the new system takes minutes. And please include the scanning in your timng and be realistic about it.

[quote]Railstay wrote...

[quote]There was way too much loot, so in the end you reached the maximum amount of money and you had to turn it into omnigel. A simple solution could be to have less loot and abandon random loot. Gear can be found at certain location in the game only and you have to fight for it (or do some other mission) to get it and some stuff you can buy. Depending on the order you play, you would still find stuff you wouldn't want to use, but you could sell those. There would be less loot, so no need to worry about that anymore. Also, we will be able to find high end gear sooner or later.[/quote]

Okay, but what's the point?  Now you have less loot but an inventory system you still don't need.[/quote]
At least you grasp the concept that an inventory system doesn't need to be cluttered. It is a matter of improving a system, intead of throwing it away. Why do we need it? It's faster and more flexible. You'll see that in the response above and below.

[quote]Railstay wrote...

[quote]I did swap armor from time to time. If there was a planet with some kind of hazard then I wore an armor that could deal with that. But once I entered a building I changed it for my regular armor, which was better suited for combat. So, I really like to have that option. Currently there is no need, because we don't have the Hammerhead yet, but it is my guess that it will change.[/quote]

When you start finding Medical Exoskeleton Xs, which are again extremely common, you never swap your upgrades out.  Ever.[/quote]
Again, you dudn't find the best stuff at the beginning of the game. Where did you get that idea from? Do you cheat? Or do you have bad memory? Just as the situation is now you upgrade your stuff. Now some things take a single step, other things take multiple steps/items to be produced/bought/found.

[quote]Railstay wrote...

[quote]There are some situations in which I want to change weapons during a mission. For some reason the game has placed some magical devices throughout the galaxy that have access to my weapons on the Normandy. It didn't matter if I was at a collector ship or in an abandoned mine, you could find them. Hehe. Having access to that everywhere may be silly, but the ME2 system is just as silly. I rather have that option available everywhere.[/quote]

When we're getting into programming here, what's more feasible?  Creating an entire inventory system just so the player can weapon swap occassionally, or having weapon armories throughout missions?  Where would you rather see money and time diverted to?  Choose carefully, because it means you end up getting shorted on other game content like story, characters and missions.[/quote]
Programming? OK. That's cool. Let's see.I think that the the research station in the labratory with the two lists (the stuff to manufacture and the stuff produced), the weapon selection system in the armory and the armor selection in your cabin are a hell of a lot more complicated than a single inventory system. Also, the weapon selection system is also scattered throughout the entire galaxy. And all have magical access to the stuff on the Normandy. But they also need to be placed there by level builders. Graphics artist need to produce that crap. Interface programmers need to dream an interface for it. The new system looks way more complicated to use abd to create than a single inventory system which is available everywhere and just one button click away.

[quote]Railstay wrote...

[quote]I didn't use the same upgrades for all weapons. I made sure that my sniper riffle did the most damage and didn't care about overheating. The other weapons had some kind of heat reductions add on. I guess it is probably much like you say.[/quote]

So you did use the same upgrades for all the weapons.  I'm not saying that you used the same mods for ALL weapons, but once you got a certain set of mods for a weapon, those were all you would use.  You would never swap them out.  Hence, again, the inventory system is useless.[/quote]
Cheating again?

[quote]Railstay wrote...

[quote]To change the ammo could still work the same with an inventory system. How about the game looking in your inventory and if it finds a ammo there it makes the easy to click option available. I think having ammo as a skill is odd. I mean... Does the skill activate special muscles in finger so I can pull the trigger any better? It's weird if you think about it. Especially, because a lot of people didn't like the old weapon skill system. The game is leveled anyway, so you should be able to buy or find ammo at given levels. That means distributing skill points to ammo wouldn't be required.[/quote]

You just said click:  There's the taboo word.  Very few developers design games exclusively with PCs in mind anymore, and Bioware is not one of them.  So, not happening.  Also since ammo has become an iconic skill feature to characters in ME2, having any squad member able to use any kind of ammo would present balancing issues again.  Everyone in your squad will simply be too good and too effective for every type of situation.

And I don't understand why you're having such a difficult time understanding real-time ammo swapping.  You notice how a little holographic indicator comes up on your gun when you swap ammo?  So it's a stretch to believe your gun is switching into a different firing mode, but you readily accept technology that can literally reduce the mass of entire objects?  How did you even think that weapon swapping = push your finger really hard?  Huh?[/quote]
You said "Now I just click a skill button." (point 3 above) I don't think ammo should be connected to a skill, just as using a sniper riffle should not be connected to a skill. So, if ammo upgrades appear in the inventory, then it should be just as easy to slect them in the inventory system as in the ME2 system. That's what my proposal is about. In fact nothing changes in the interface on the screen. The cryo ammo (as an example) button will be there if is a cryo ammo upgrade in the inventory. Nothing more not thing less. You won't even have to open the inventory to switch to other ammo or disable it, because nothing changes in the HUD.

[quote]Railstay wrote...

[quote]Hmmm. Using the current trend to dumb things down I have even dumbed it down some more in favor for the inventory system. How's that? Hehe.[/quote]

ME2 didn't "dumb things down".  Dumbing things down means removing the complexity in a game.  If anything, the game is far more complex.  ME1 didn't feature skill synergy, unique class abilities, locational damage and different types of kinetic barriers.

Think of what you're placing in the spectrum of complex.  How is spamming your sell key "complex"?  And how is getting rid of this feature "dumbing down"?[/quote]
Did I say that ME2 dumbed things down. Point at it. I think you really have problems reading. Really.

[quote]Railstay wrote...

[quote]Another plus for the inventory system is that it allows you to use stuff the moment you find or buy it. There is no need to go back to the ship, scan for resources, walk to the lab to select it and/or walk to the armory to equip it. That's a bit tedious if you ask me. I think it is more work than the current system saves.[/quote]

Oh, right.  The one minute total I spent equipping something new I got weighed against the hour I spent in total spamming the "sell" key and mindlessly clicking "Omingel" "Yes" is far less tedious.

Clicking "Research" is definitely worse than that system.[/quote]
Cheating again?

[quote]Railstay wrote...

[quote]Another concern that people mention is that you only wanted to use the best gear that there was no use for any other. I think that it is a dead argument, because in the new system you have that as well. Some weapons are only used at the start of the game and once upgraded you never use the old ones again. Nothing new here. That has little to do with the inventory system.[/quote]

Uhhh.  No.

I still use the starting HP over the Carnifex.  Some people still prefer the Katana over the Scimitar, and the Scimitar over a Claymore.  Only a couple weapons are just clearly superior in this game, most of those are the upgrades you find on the Collector Ship.

Head on over to the Character Builds section of the forum and it may open your eyes.

Also, I'd much rather the dev team create a solid, flexible core group of weapons rather than spending time, money and manpower making a buffet of derivative and useless weapons you will never glance at again after you get the super weapons at the end of the game.  I'd rather have those resources put towards better combat, story, characters and missions, thanks.[/quote]
What no? You never select anything and you don't have weapons you don't need. Right. Oh. And of course, you cheat (or have a very bad memory). That helps too.

BTW: I rather have a good game. I don't like to spend a lot of time scanning and walking just to select stuff.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 15 février 2010 - 12:55 .

[JedTed]

While i don't miss the poorly designed inventory of ME1, i do wish there was more customization in terms of weapons and armor. Stuff like ammo mods should be available to all classes and it doesn't really make sense to have them be exclusive to specific classes.

I'm not complaining about Bioware making the game more accessible but i feel like they're over simplifying in response to all the critisims of ME1. They didn't have to completly scrap the inventory just refine it so it wasn't such a headache to manage.

Modifié par JedTed, 15 février 2010 - 05:53 .

[tsd16]

Railstay wrote...

Lets see...  What did the inventory system do for me?

• Made me sit there selling and omni-geling a bunch of crap so the game wouldn't complain to me about my inventory getting full, ad-naseum.
• Never, ever made me swap out my weapons.  Ever.  The items in ME1 were a completely linear progression.  Once you got the Spectre gear, there was no point in using anything else...  Thus, the inventory becoming useless anyway.
• Made me use the same upgrades on every weapon.  Double Scram VIIs and HE X on the SR.  Why use anything else?  Why use anything else but Scram Xs on a Pistol with Marksman spam, either?
• Made me open up the inventory, go through every character's gun and replace their ammo with the one I need for a fight against organics/geth.  Now I just click a skill button.

I guess if it allowed me to swap what type of gun I'd be using -- guns that are different, not cleary superior -- then I'd be open to the idea of an inventory system again.  But I also don't relish the idea sitting there spamming sell sell sell sell sell sell just so the game won't whine at me.  It would also make balancing the game's enemies more difficult, yet again.

So I vote no.  I think the people who had fun being forced to omnigel or spam the sell button after every planet are in the clear minority.  Asking for it back is like hearing someone ask for a rest and food system in Mass Effect, where Commander Shepard and his squad all need to eat and sleep throughout the game or they will die.  It's pointless busy work.

[*]You make an excellent point, Even with all the Assault rifles for example, aside from the base, There actually is a point to rotating.  
[*] i.e. If I am going to be in a mission with husk spam, the Revnant is a better option, while I find the vindicator to be superior for mid/long range battles.   They made the weapons different as opposed to just more powerful, which I like, because there is actually reason to rotate back and fourth.  for some of the weapons though, the AR's in particular are good for this variety, but some of the other options for other weapons are lacking.  
[*] I just wish there was more options for each weapon slot, or weapon mods that change the dynamic of the weapon as opposed to power, such as lowering Rate of fire, for more power and accuracy, or vice versa.  Where no mod is clearly superior to another, but useful depending on personal style or situation.

[Onegrayjedi]

If anything with an inventory system, they need to stack them like say you have Frictionless material, but you have 10 of them so represent that it is: Frictionless Material x10

[Onegrayjedi]

I would also like to note that the original person hasnt shown up to make a comment in some time

[Onegrayjedi]

I would also like to note that the original person hasnt shown up to make a comment in some time

[Braag]

I don't understand why people want the old inventory back. I spent more time in the inventory than playing the actual game....selling items, turning them into omni-gel or checking my squad members equipment to replace them wasn't fun. And after couple playthroughs I had best weapons and Armor for everyone so every 30 minutes I had to go to my inventory to turn everything into omni-gel... I think the ME2 "inventory" style is perfect. I just wish there was more armor and weapons but at least I don't need to spend majority of the time fiddling with it.

[kregano]

I personally think a combination of ME2's upgrade system and Army of Two's weapon customization would be great in ME3. I've roughly sketched out how such a system would work on my blog.