106 réponses à ce sujet

[Average Gatsby]

I've been thinking about my own list, and while I don't have one yet, I would like to make a point about Zaeed and Garrus. They are very similar, they just have their abilities and ammo flipped. Garrus has an anti-synthetic ability, Zaeed has anti-synthetic ammo; Garrus has anti-armor ammo, Zaeed has anti-armor ability.



To that end, I think if you are making Garrus an A class character, Zaeed should almost always be with him. They are basically 2 sides of the same coin.

[Taritu]

Average Gatsby wrote...

I've been thinking about my own list, and while I don't have one yet, I would like to make a point about Zaeed and Garrus. They are very similar, they just have their abilities and ammo flipped. Garrus has an anti-synthetic ability, Zaeed has anti-synthetic ammo; Garrus has anti-armor ammo, Zaeed has anti-armor ability.

To that end, I think if you are making Garrus an A class character, Zaeed should almost always be with him. They are basically 2 sides of the same coin.

Good point.  Probably letting personality issues cloud my combat judgement.  Though i do take Zaeed with me a ton.

[RamsenC]

I think a tier list is silly since how good a squad mate is depends on your class. As a Vanguard I like Tali, Morinth, and Legion for their crowd control/distraction abilities. Would I use any of these squad mates with my sentinel? Hell no.

Miranda is solid though, can't argue there.

[sinosleep]

Yeah but some things are good for any class, like defense stripping. Which is why I ranked the guys I did the way I did. IMO, defense stripping is the most useful thing an ally can do. Miranda and Samara were just as useful on my vanguard as they've been on my engineer.

[Lamarboarder14]

This is my list. (Infiltrator)

S-Miranda, Thane

A+-Garrus, Leigon

A-Tali, Grunt

B-Jacob, Jack, Mordin, Zaeed

I Love the combo of me using the Widow, Thane using the Viper, and Miranda using Slam/SMG. Just a great setup.

[Vikotoru]

With a non warping class I'm founding the initial squad to be great

S- Jacob+Miranda (miranda the greatest)

Legion + Widow is impressive but you obtain it so late that you cannot enjoy it

A-Samara and Thane are very very good.

A-Mordin is great against krogan vorcha, I prefer maxing cryo than neural shock so I use it at its best since the recruiting

B- Tali: No overload, energy drain is obtained too late 32 seconds cooldown on drone...

B-Jack: When you can strip defenses fast she is incredible, warp ammo is incredible too ( she gains additional points for her battle swearing, I love hearing the: "I'll kill you all!!!")

B-Upgraded Grunt is good, worse on insanity but he is ok, I prefer Jacob many times)



My final conclusion is that to have shotgun users fighting at its best you have to support that characters on insanity drawing fire away from them or they are killed very fast.

[WillieStyle]

Average Gatsby wrote...

I've been thinking about my own list, and while I don't have one yet, I would like to make a point about Zaeed and Garrus. They are very similar, they just have their abilities and ammo flipped. Garrus has an anti-synthetic ability, Zaeed has anti-synthetic ammo; Garrus has anti-armor ammo, Zaeed has anti-armor ability.

Zaeed's Grenade doesn't count as a tech or biotic ability, meaning it deosn't get any research bonuses to damage, cooldown or duration.

By endgame, Zaeed's grenade kinda sucks, while Garrus's Overload continues to scale with upgrades.
For this reason, I feel Garrus is superior to Zaeed.

[sinosleep]

Overload is also far more accurate. It goes to exactly the target you want to use it on, the grenade can be pretty finicky.

[BanditGR]

Considering insanity difficulty :





S- Tier : Miranda. Best squad mate by a thousand miles. You get to use her right off the bat, which enables you to maximize all 3 of her most important skills, she has Warp and Overload, squad bonuses, essentially a non brainer.



A+ : I'd put Legion here but it really depends whether you will obtain him before doing any loyalty missions and/or sidequests. Other than that Samara/Garrus/Thane are pretty good choices depending on the mission/situation.



A- : Grunt, Zaeed, Mordin. Both Zaeed and Mordin are underrated. They make excellent squad mates due to their incineration type of abilities and you get both of them very EARLY in the game, which is huge plus. Grunt has the best overall survivability (he can still die though) and decent damage but other than that not many redeeming qualities. Good as a husk sponge on Insanity though



B : Jack, Jacob, Tali. Tali could have been so much better because of her drone, but again it depends on when you acquire her. Jack is sadly only good if you use him for squad warp ammo. Jacob is...well Jacob is...decent it if you examine him as a standalone squaddie, but pretty terrible when compared to most other choices.

[WillieStyle]

Kajan451 wrote...
Miranda, she isn't cut out to be any good material. Her abilities seem pretty good at first sight, and everyone talks about the Teambonus of 15% she gives. Well Thane and Zaeed both get +50% weapon damage. Taking the two of them does provide Warp and Zaeed gets Disruptor ammo for shields. Both can use sniperrifles making them much more useful if you need "Mirandas" Abilities. Miranda lacks in weapons. Only Heavy Pistol and SMG... that doesn't cut it. I don't want to stand her in first row to hit something or have her slow firing with her HP. Thane and Zaeed both seem to me only useful to dish out damage. But i consider Garrus the better Sniper, even though he only gets +35% damage... but he gets a +70% from his Tungsten Ammo.. making him more useful as Thane in my eyes. Zaeed... i don't know... i suppose he isn't bad against Husks and Geth. But why would i pick him over Grunt for Husks.. or him over Legion or Tali für Geth? The little damage bonus doesn't measure up to the abilities others provide.

This is very wrong.
Miranda grants 15% bonus to weapon damage for the entire squad.  You count as ~2 squad members since all your squad mates do roughly 50% of your damage with weapons.
This means Miranda provides on average a 0.25 + 0.15*3 = 0.7 => 70% "effective" bonus to a single squad mate.
Thane, on the other hand, provides a 50% bonus to his own damage.
And actually, things are even more heavily in Miranda's favour because you end up doing more than just double your squadmates' damage.  If they die, you fight on. If you die, you reload.  Meaning your dps availability is 100% whereas theirs is less than that.  Also, you are smarter than the AI and so get more damage out of your weapons (landing more shots, switching weapons intelligently) than they do.  Miranda's bonus is of much greater value than any other squadmate's.

Also, you've setup a false choice between Miranda and a high-dps squadmate like Thane/Garrus.
The more base dps your other squadmates have, the more valuable Miranda becomes.
This means Miranda + Garrus/Thane >> Garrus + Thane.

Also, I don't understand this nonesense about heavy pistols sucking. 
The Carnifax hand-cannon's effective dps (counting RoF and re-fire time) is 89.54 dps.
The Viper Sniper Rifle's effective dps (counting RoF and re-fire time) is 91.0 dps.
I'm not seeing the huge advantage here.  The Viper is better against shields, the handcannon is better against armor.  The biggest disadvantage the handcannon has is its low ammo capacity.  But your squadmates don't run out of ammo so that point is moot.

Miranda with a handcannon does decent dps.  Her personal dps boost is half of Thanes, but she provides a much more valuable boost to your overall squad (including yourself).  Feel free, to use whatever squad you like, but Miranda is hands-down the best squadmate in the game.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 14 février 2010 - 09:03 .

[NihilisticN]

Tok153 wrote...

S Grunt, Miranda, Legion
A+ Mordin, Samara
A- Tali, Garrus, Thane, Jacob, Jack
B Zaeed

Grunt takes massive punishment, Miranda has Skills for Armor/Shield/Biotic, Legion has Combat Drone (In some cases Explosive) Taking attention off of Shepard. (Harbenger loves this lil guy.) The others have decent abilities but nothing that screams survivability.

QFT
Grunt is like taking two squad members he is that tough and with a tier 3 weapon, legion is unquestionably the best sniper (other than Shepard). Miranda is stacked.

[TobiasRieper]

Suprised how low Jack's rated. I love using her when playing Sentinel. Awesome combos with throw and warp. And that biotic wave thing has helped me out of husk crowds before.



But I haven't done an insanity run yet, so I'll probably notice her shortcomings soon.

[finnithe]

WillieStyle wrote...
Also, I don't understand this nonesense about heavy pistols sucking. 
The Carnifax hand-cannon's effective dps (counting RoF and re-fire time) is 89.54 dps.
The Viper Sniper Rifle's effective dps (counting RoF and re-fire time) is 91.0 dps.
I'm not seeing the huge advantage here.  The Viper is better against shields, the handcannon is better against armor.  The biggest disadvantage the handcannon has is its low ammo capacity.  But your squadmates don't run out of ammo so that point is moot.

Miranda with a handcannon does decent dps.  Her personal dps boost is half of Thanes, but she provides a much more valuable boost to your overall squad (including yourself).  Feel free, to use whatever squad you like, but Miranda is hands-down the best squadmate in the game.

http://masseffect.wi...er_Sniper_Rifle

Actually, both the Handcannon and Viper have higher damage multipliers against armour, though the Handcannon does have the higher of the two. Something I've noticed when equipping my squaddies with a Carnifex is that their rate of fire decreases dramatically. They really don't take too many shots with that gun. This is all unproven since I haven't really looked at it (nor have I looked at the RoF for the Viper) so I dunno.

I still think Miranda is a better squadmate. The squadmates I bring serve to strip the enemies' defenses so that I can put my biotics into full effect. SMG's and Pistols and Miranda's powers fit perfectly into that role, so she serves as my default party member.

[Average Gatsby]

WillieStyle wrote...

Average Gatsby wrote...

I've been thinking about my own list, and while I don't have one yet, I would like to make a point about Zaeed and Garrus. They are very similar, they just have their abilities and ammo flipped. Garrus has an anti-synthetic ability, Zaeed has anti-synthetic ammo; Garrus has anti-armor ammo, Zaeed has anti-armor ability.

Zaeed's Grenade doesn't count as a tech or biotic ability, meaning it deosn't get any research bonuses to damage, cooldown or duration.

By endgame, Zaeed's grenade kinda sucks, while Garrus's Overload continues to scale with upgrades.
For this reason, I feel Garrus is superior to Zaeed.

Its true that endgame Garrus would be a better choice to take on the collector ship. However, throughout the rest of the game, and especially the Geth levels, Zaeeds disruptor ammo is insanely good. And while AP ammo does do increased damage v health, the fact that disruptor ammo causes a 3 second total stun on synthetics and a 6 second weapon disable on any enemy, to me is just as valuable as pure extra damage. Its easier to kill someone when they can't shoot back.

[Malanek]

Interesting what people think. The only one I don't really like is Samara. Once her loyalty mission is completed it changes round a bit, but that is most of the game and before that she is significantly weaker. Miranda is easily the best. I think Mordin is underrated here, incinerate is very useful in certain armour heavy areas early in the game. Zaeed seems a bit underrated as well, he seems to fall less often than anyone. I actually like the combination of Miranda, Jack plus Adept or Sentinal. You can get quite a lot of biotic damage early and focus on that.

Despite playing through 3 times plus three other games on the go I don't feel confident in answering this question. I would tentatively say

1 Miranda

2 Everyone else

3 Samara

[IndomitusRex]

Tier 1: Miranda, Garrus, Grunt, Zaeed



Miranda's great for the squad bonuses and for stripping defenses. Her personal combat strength and sruvivability are pretty weak, though.



Garrus has great offense, and he's good against Shields (Overload), Barriers (Concussive Shot) and Armour (AP ammo). His survivabilty is unimpressive, and I find his personal AI to be a bit kamikaze. Great weapon selection.



Grunt is an unkillable tank, has Incendiary Ammo, which is good against Armour and organics, Concussive Shot for Barriers and spot CC, and has his Krogan charge. His weapon selections are also very solid.



Zaeed has great weapon selection, is against Shields, Armour and Barriers. Survivability is only average.



Tier 2: Samara, Legion



Samara's weapon selection is good, if a bit redundant (SMGs are just inferior ARs). Her biotics are good when defenses are down, and Reave is always good.



Legion has good offense, with good weapon selections. His Shield ups his survivability nicely, but his other abilities are pretty average. No ability to remove defenses, AI Hacking is only useful against Geth and Mechs (obviously), and Combat Drone is okay. Plays like a sturdier, less offensive Garrus.



Tier 3: Mordin, Jack, Thane



Mordin has fairly weak weapon selection, and his only really useful ability is Incinerate. Cryo Blast is okay, but only good once defenses are down.



Jack: She has strong biotics and decently strong offense. No ability to remove defenses. Weapon selection is probably the worst.



Thane: Has decent weapons, Warp is great for removing Defenses. Throw is okay. Shredder Ammo is not particularly useful.



Tier 4: Jacob, Tali



Jacob shares the worst selection of weapons, his abilities are lackluster. Barrier doesn't up his survivabilty enough that I'd throw him at enemies like I would Grunt.



Tali again shares the worst selection of weapons. AI Hacking is sporadically useful, Combat Drone is okay.

[WillieStyle]

Average Gatsby wrote...
Its true that endgame Garrus would be a better choice to take on the collector ship. However, throughout the rest of the game, and especially the Geth levels, Zaeeds disruptor ammo is insanely good. And while AP ammo does do increased damage v health, the fact that disruptor ammo causes a 3 second total stun on synthetics and a 6 second weapon disable on any enemy, to me is just as valuable as pure extra damage. Its easier to kill someone when they can't shoot back.

Good point.
If you need squad disruptor ammo from Zaeed (especially against sythetics) Zaeed > Garrus.
However, if you're a high-level Infiltrator or Soldier who already has disruptor ammo, Garrus > Zaeed.

Frankly, on the collector ship, I find Thane\\Samara > Garrus\\Zaeed.  

[Peer of the Empire]

As a Vanguard on Insanity:

S Tier

• Miranda
• Legion w/ Widow and squad ammo

A+ Tier

• Grunt
• Zaeed
• Garrus
• Thane

A Tier

• Mordin
• Samara

B Tier:

• Jack, Jacob, Tali

I have never recruited Morinth.

Thane is awesome against collectors.
Jack, Jacob and Tali are screwed by their shotguns in addition to their skills.  They don't have Charge like I do

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 28 février 2010 - 04:53 .

[FFTARoxorz05]

I'm surprised people don't like Pull more, as every enemy I've pulled gets insta-killed by the other squad member. I usually take Miranda and Garrus/Thane, maybe Samara since I gave her all the AOE stuff (and AOE Throw one shots however many husks there are).

Modifié par FFTARoxorz05, 15 février 2010 - 12:32 .

[Vioitty]

I have to agree with the general thought that Miranda IS the best squadmate, as she can be used throughout the whole game and to your benefit. Warp + Overload conquers most, if not all, of the enemies you encounter.



On the flip-side, I find Jack to be not quite so good, since her biotic powers are very situational =/. 'tis a shame, even Mordin is better than her in terms of specialist powers.

[Vaylor66]

I don't get the Zaeed hate either. He's good vs shields with disruptor ammo, has a +50% passive damage boost. And his incendiary grenades are actually pretty good, and obtainable right away. They'll pretty much strip the armor off of anything. So he's pretty top tier vs anything other than barriers. He also has access to great weapons.

[Shvabic]

I don't know if Mirandas Squad-Bonus cuts it, but Garrus+Zaeed with Incisors are totally ridiculous. You can just sit there and watch them obliterate everything.

And with Disruptor and AP it just gets so much more wrong.

[Average Gatsby]

Okay, here's my squad list. However, I must preface this by saying it is really the most favorable squadmates for Adepts, so unless your using biotic combos extensively or are weak against geth, this may not apply.

S-class: Thane, Miranda -
          Unstable Warp is the ultimate power of the Adept, being able to double and triple kill like no other class. Couple that with the fact that Unstable Warp has only a 9 second cooldown on squadmates, and it makes it an absolutely essential to take at least one Warp wielding ally with you. For the Adept, miranda's Overload is also fantastic to fight shielded enemies, and Cerberus Operative can help with survivability. Thane's Throw is good for quick single target kills, but his real advantage is using the sniper rifles (like the Incisor) coupled with his absolutely insane passive damage boost

A-class: Zaeed, Garrus
          The greatest weakness of the adepts are their poor ability to fight geth. I don't know where Zaeed's merc work took him, but from the looks of his combat skills, I think he's killed more mechs than men. Squad Disruptor ammo against geth is like the effects of incendiary ammo/armor piercing with on organics with an anti-shield bonus. Concussive shot is nice to have a couple points in to fire off in a pinch when you need that Krogan knocked out. Garrus on the other hand is your ultimate anti-merc fighter. Overload sucks the shields away, while armor piercing does all the damage you need against health.

B-class: Jacob, Jack, Samara
         You'll notice all three of these classes share one ability: Pull. I think I'm going to petition to have pull renamed "Nuke Primer". Against the barriered or armored opponent, Heavy Warp + pull + Unstable Warp is able to dish out an insane amount of damage to multiple enemies. Jacob also has squad incendiary ammo, nice against armor, whereas Jack has squad warp which can be very helpful fighting collectors/harbinger. Samara falls into this category because with Reave, she's very good anti-barrier or armor, making the possibility of Reave, Pull, Unstable Warp an alternate combo, or she can use her pull to be the mid point in that combo. Her cooldown bonus passive makes her a more reliable squadmate in terms of being able to use her abilities more often.

C-class: Legion, Tali, Morinth
      Tali, apparently everyone's favorite gal, is very strong against geth, and the combat drone is nice CC. But what an adept needs is for her/his allies to increase kill speed and power, not additional CC. Legion is better than Tali in almost every way, and would be right next to zaeed and garrus, but the problem is that by the time you get him, you only have 1 level to fight geth, where he has to come with you anyway. Morinth is samara without reave, and jacob and jack without an ammo power. Dominate is not really the most effective move for the adept because once an organic has been reduced to health, its often far better to use it as a nuke or send it into orbit with pull.

D-class: Grunt - Poor Grunt. Not great against synthetics, and can't set adepts up for a combo. He tanks, which seems like it would be useful for the adept, except for the fact we can create the epic trap known as Singularity. He's far from bad, he's just not ever a better choice than any other squadmate, except...

F-class: Mordin - Say it isn't so. I will say he can be good very early game, but his abilities are just things the adept doesn't need. Anti-armor? we have warp/reave. CC? Singularity, Pull, Shockwave. Add these (for the adept) useless abilities to his weak weapons. Bums me out how useless he is for the adept because I think he's funny, but abilities are abilities.

Modifié par Average Gatsby, 15 février 2010 - 02:58 .

[mundus66]

Malanek999 wrote...

Interesting what people think. The only one I don't really like is Samara. Once her loyalty mission is completed it changes round a bit, but that is most of the game and before that she is significantly weaker. Miranda is easily the best. I think Mordin is underrated here, incinerate is very useful in certain armour heavy areas early in the game. Zaeed seems a bit underrated as well, he seems to fall less often than anyone. I actually like the combination of Miranda, Jack plus Adept or Sentinal. You can get quite a lot of biotic damage early and focus on that.
Despite playing through 3 times plus three other games on the go I don't feel confident in answering this question. I would tentatively say
1 Miranda
2 Everyone else
3 Samara

How is Samara worst? If you play lower than Insanity i think most could agree on that the ultimate team is Miranda and Samara since reave being sick and she has good cc. On insanity its still awesome but warp is slightly better, which makes her less useful than Morinth (dominate) and other squad mates. Would still but her in top 5 though.

[Slygar]

My tops, based on my vangaurd/insanity run:

1: Miranda. Pull/Warp is awesome

2: Legion/Thane: I switch them up. Legion is sturdier and does more damage, but Thane has Heavy Throw, which is awesome for clearing out masses of enemies combinded with the above Miranda combo and my own pull/shockwave (since Pull's CD is so short, and pull/Heavy Throw is great. Pull then Heavy Throw and Heavy Warp on an enemy at the same time is also good for a lol.) Yes, I really like Pull, and tend to play my vanguard like an adept in between charges ^ ^

3. Zaeed. Inferno Grenade is awesome for instantly raping shields around corners (for Pull ofc) and clearing out husks.

4. Grunt. Obvious reasons.

Modifié par Slygar, 15 février 2010 - 03:44 .