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[Jackal904]

Grunt gets **** on in insanity because he rushes so much.

[Graunt]

Beeno4Life wrote...

S Tier- Miranda, Thane
A+ Tier- Samara, Grunt, Garrus, Legion
A Tier- Jack, Mordin
B Tier- Jacob, Zaeed, Tali

Thane's powers are amazing in unison, especially with his loyalty and use of sniper rifles.
Miranda has warp, which is one of the best powers in the game, and ups squad health/damage.

Tali is very situational, and her only useful power is combat drone. Even then, I'd rather have a better power.
Jacob has one of the worst power combos, IMO. Sure Incendiary ammo is OK, but I'd rather have Armor-Piercing or even Anti-Personel rounds.

I don't really understand how Thane's ammo is amazing, and I also don't know if your squadmates actually ever get head shots.  If they don't then his damage is only so so from the sniper and Samara is actually better DPS due to being able to use the Vindicator.  Jacob doesn't even deserve to sit with Zaeed and Tali either, he's by far the most useless character in the game.  His ammo does NOT make up for his uselessness.  By the time you can even unlock rank 4 ammo with him you could have someone better and you can't have more than one person in your group with an ammo power unless you want a headache since the game loves to constantly turn it on even if you want them using something else.

S Tier - Miranda
A+ Tier - Garrus, Samara [Thane if head shot]
A Tier - Legion, Zaeed, Grunt [Thane if no head shot]
B Tier - Tali, Jack, Mordin
F Tier - Jacob

Miranda is in a league of her own, no one can really come close.  Personally I don't like Jack at all and she's almost as bad as Jacob.  The only reason she even gets the placement is for group Warp ammo and that's all, otherwise she would be where Jacob is.  Now if we are talking about normal difficulty, Jack is quite good for shockwave, otherwise not so much.  Zaeed is extremely underrated.  He's a very boring character personality wise and has no real interaction, but early on he's an amazing squadmember and situationally good (interchangeable with Mordin).  You can spec him for either squad disruptor or a rank 4 grenade which is pretty damn great.  And he can use either assault rifles or sniper rifles.

Grunt gets **** on in insanity because he rushes so much.

Give him an Assault Rifle and see what happens.  I never use him so I don't know if he rushes even when not using the shotgun.

Modifié par Graunt, 15 février 2010 - 04:28 .

[The Rickstah]

Average Gatsby wrote...

Okay, here's my squad list. However, I must preface this by saying it is really the most favorable squadmates for Adepts, so unless your using biotic combos extensively or are weak against geth, this may not apply.

S-class: Thane, Miranda -
          Unstable Warp is the ultimate power of the Adept, being able to double and triple kill like no other class. Couple that with the fact that Unstable Warp has only a 9 second cooldown on squadmates, and it makes it an absolutely essential to take at least one Warp wielding ally with you. For the Adept, miranda's Overload is also fantastic to fight shielded enemies, and Cerberus Operative can help with survivability. Thane's Throw is good for quick single target kills, but his real advantage is using the sniper rifles (like the Incisor) coupled with his absolutely insane passive damage boost

A-class: Zaeed, Garrus
          The greatest weakness of the adepts are their poor ability to fight geth. I don't know where Zaeed's merc work took him, but from the looks of his combat skills, I think he's killed more mechs than men. Squad Disruptor ammo against geth is like the effects of incendiary ammo/armor piercing with on organics with an anti-shield bonus. Concussive shot is nice to have a couple points in to fire off in a pinch when you need that Krogan knocked out. Garrus on the other hand is your ultimate anti-merc fighter. Overload sucks the shields away, while armor piercing does all the damage you need against health.

B-class: Jacob, Jack, Samara
         You'll notice all three of these classes share one ability: Pull. I think I'm going to petition to have pull renamed "Nuke Primer". Against the barriered or armored opponent, Heavy Warp + pull + Unstable Warp is able to dish out an insane amount of damage to multiple enemies. Jacob also has squad incendiary ammo, nice against armor, whereas Jack has squad warp which can be very helpful fighting collectors/harbinger. Samara falls into this category because with Reave, she's very good anti-barrier or armor, making the possibility of Reave, Pull, Unstable Warp an alternate combo, or she can use her pull to be the mid point in that combo. Her cooldown bonus passive makes her a more reliable squadmate in terms of being able to use her abilities more often.

C-class: Legion, Tali, Morinth
      Tali, apparently everyone's favorite gal, is very strong against geth, and the combat drone is nice CC. But what an adept needs is for her/his allies to increase kill speed and power, not additional CC. Legion is better than Tali in almost every way, and would be right next to zaeed and garrus, but the problem is that by the time you get him, you only have 1 level to fight geth, where he has to come with you anyway. Morinth is samara without reave, and jacob and jack without an ammo power. Dominate is not really the most effective move for the adept because once an organic has been reduced to health, its often far better to use it as a nuke or send it into orbit with pull.

D-class: Grunt - Poor Grunt. Not great against synthetics, and can't set adepts up for a combo. He tanks, which seems like it would be useful for the adept, except for the fact we can create the epic trap known as Singularity. He's far from bad, he's just not ever a better choice than any other squadmate, except...

F-class: Mordin - Say it isn't so. I will say he can be good very early game, but his abilities are just things the adept doesn't need. Anti-armor? we have warp/reave. CC? Singularity, Pull, Shockwave. Add these (for the adept) useless abilities to his weak weapons. Bums me out how useless he is for the adept because I think he's funny, but abilities are abilities.

Who are the two you usually run for the adept on Insanity?

Also. I don't have Zaaed =[

[Sarevok Anchev]

Omega-202 wrote...

Sarevok Anchev wrote...

Dunno why People give Miranda such a good Mark.
She has Warp and Overload, but (i play only Insanity) she dies very fast and ..
maybe its my Imagination, but she is plainly stupid! No other Character walks so dumbly in Enemyfire like her!

You don't allow her anywhere near enemy fire.  Her main benefit is leaving her out of harms way and just making use of her powers.  Her abilities don't need line of sight from her character.  Stick her in a corner away from the fight and just use Warp and Overload as if they were your abilities and enjoy the team bonuses.  

If you're letting Miranda out in the open, you're doing it wrong.  For example (from a part most Insanity players are familiar with), before the first Scion fight on Horizon, stick her in the alcove to the right before you enter the courtyard and leave her there for the whole fight.  Having an extra Heavy Warp AND a boost to your health and damage is better than crossing your fingers and hoping that some other teammate survives long enough to do any real damage with a gun.  

Thanks for nfo; i know that. Even after all i used her in the Final-Stages.
But it wont change, that no matter what i tell her, she is soooo plainly stupid in Comparison to Guys like Samara or Garrus. Im not interested in Babysitting, so my next Crew will be only tough Soldiers.
Her Powers are nice and the Extra Damage too, but she is really annoying for me (in several Ways )

[ScriptDiver]

Playing as a Sentinel with (Area) Reave as the bonus talent I used Miranda and Grunt in most of the game (on Insanity). And there were some hard parts against dual scions, but I never had any problems with preatorians or anything. So my top tier is Grunt, Zaeed and Miranda.

Miranda is great because of the overload/warp added with her squad bonuses. Depending on your playstyle you might need her or find her replaceable. At least in the beginning she is very good to have along, getting easier to replace once you hit the higher levels. Also you need to micro-manage her staying in cover at the far back at all times on Insanity.

Saying that Grunt can tank but can't kill anything is just wrong. Hand him his shotgun and make sure he uses it (since he keeps defaulting to assault rifles) and he'll clear any incoming enemies and put some stopping power on any charging krogans. Add to the fact that nothing but Geth Primes/Scions seems able to kill him, he's gotta be in the top - at least for Shepard classes that don't take damage so well.

Zaeed, I like him. Put a Geth Pulse rifle on him and combine it with the Disruptor ammo and shields will not be a factor anylonger. He strips shields faster than I can press shift+overload. Rince and repeat, then throw in an area grenade and dent that yellow armor. Then fire up area reave from Shepard and you'll be ripping through waves of shielded enemies on Insanity. AND he can use the Incisor sniper rifle.

Comparing Grunt and Zaeed they're both really good depending on playstyle I suppose. Grunt is staying power and just refusal to die - whereas Zaeed has a higher damage/utility fundtions with less survivability.

***

Jack I found to be utterly useless on Insanity, couldn't figure out how to use her properly to my advantage in any way. Once she could use any of her powers, the fight was already over... 

Samara proved to be a waste of space, since I already had reave she added absolutely nothing.

Tali has no useful powers on Insanity except combat drone, and she can't take any damage, making her sadly a bad choice - though I like her as a companion the best =/

Haven't bothered to use Legion enough to really comment on his performance. Didn't need him as a Sentinel. Nor did I put any use into Thane or Garrus, not when there are better choices.

Jacob....... I hate him. No character depth, waste of story space, boring loyalty mission, kamikaze AI and keeps dying. Oh boy, oh boy were fem Shepards shafted on this one in ME2. If I could not recruit him I would, and setting up ME3 with him dead in my saves. He is only in the game for the Normandy armor upgrade?

Modifié par ScriptDiver, 15 février 2010 - 11:51 .

[Pooh-bah]

Insanity, I've played Soldier and Infiltrator, and I'm soon starting a Vanguard though I don't think my choices will change much.

Top Tier :

-> Miranda without a shadow of a doubt. Warp and Overload are both godly. I like her character and I like her powers, she rocks and I almost always bring her along.

Tier Two :

-> Samara is great, especially in conjunction with Miranda my favourite teammate. Reave is very powerful and her other abilities give her croud control, and allow her to set up Miranda's warp area explosions. Also I like the character, I found her very well developed and fleshed out, and interesting to boot. She gets Assault rifles too.

-> Grunt is my meat man. He can stand around on insanity and not get instagibbed, he can kick his way through the swarms of husks constantly trying to rip me to shreds and come out asking for more. He's a tank, and he's very interesting because of his mix of naievety and bloodlust.

-> Thane is a cool calm killing machine. He can blow people apart with guns and biotics. Warp is always godly, and his ammo is really useful in the last mission when you've got collectors all over the place. Another interesting character who is well developed. I appreciate his internal dichotomy and the struggle between his spirituality and feelings of debt towards the Hanar resulting in his role as an assassin.

Tier Three :

-> Garrus is a character I really like but I find he often does sloppy stuff on the battlefield and has a low survival rate. His abilities are OK but even against barriers concussion shot is underpowered, and I'm pretty sure that it's impossible to raise AP Ammo, Overload and his passive to rank 4 because overload requires 3 squad points be spwnt in Concussive Shot, which kinda sucks and really reduces his usefulness. He's a really good character though. Garrus gets good weapons and his ammo is better than Thane's but Thane has better powers, and seems to stick behind cover at the back a lot more while Garrus tries to play the hero and gets torn apart. Garrus is at the top of tier three, but he's still definitely below the tier twos.

-> Zaeed is a fun character and he has decent survivability. His stills are decent too. But, as Joker comments, Zaeed is just like Shepard (only he takes checks). Like Shepard he's an individual badass, adaptive and good in many situations. Unfortunately this means that while he's strong as an individual he doesn't fit well into a team which already has a leader that can be a keystone to anchor two more specialised and synergistic teammates. If I were rating individuals Zaeed would be higher, but since we're running a team here I have to put him down, he lacks the Synergy of any of the Tier One+Two's together.

-> Legion is a dangerous sniper because of his weapon but even with his shield boost his added survivabilitiy isn't enough to make up for his lacklustre powers. AI hacking and the drone are both really situational, and the super long cooldown on the drone doesn't improve matters. I always felt he doesn't get enough screen time; by the time you get him as a teammate you can only use him on a max of two missions (his loyalty and then the final one) if you want to obtain the best ending because as soon as you finish the reaper IFF mission you're locked into the end game. Which is kinda balls really. Lacking an ammo power puts him down too.

-> Morinth is... Morinth. Her character disturbs me greatly, so I love her as a creation; she's a delightfully twisted and evil sadist with an interesting twist. Unfortunately she's overshadowed by her kickass mother as a teammate. Samara Lite sums it up, except on the higher difficulty levels Dominate is totally outclassed by Reave. Also I find it hard to think why any of my characters would want to take her with them, over Samara. Even a true renegade is going to have issues killing a loyal teammate for the ultimate femme fatale whose interest is primarily in psychicly eating him/her, leaving them to die and then moving on with the serial killing business. If she were clearly more powerful than Samara then maybe, but Samara has this whole cool honourable samurai sworn to service thing going on and kicks more ass than Morinth.

Tier Four :

-> Mordin is one of my favourite characters, totally hilarious and probably one of the best created computer game characters of all time. Unfortunately he has the survivability of a chocolate teapot. His powers are ok, and incinarate is especially strong but I'd much rather have Mordin back on the ship ready to say something priceless than getting himself shot to pieces and spending most of the time on the floor in missions.

-> Jacob, the nicest guy in the universe. Unfortunately his weapon selection is weak, and his powers are only average. He's alright, but with his weapon selection and the fact that all of his powers are only 'alright' - well alright doesn't really cut it in my crack commando squad. I use him early on for pull to set off Miranda's warp for extra fun, but once I get a more useful teammate I drop him asap.

-> Poor sweet, wonderful Tali is a really nice girl but if Mordin has the survivability of a chocolate teapot, she has the survivability of a chocolate teapot, in hell. On top of that all her powers are really situational, only good against synthetics and only then sometimes and she has a weak weapon selection.

-> Jack rocks, rolls and kicks ass. In cutscenes. In game she still has the same awesome attitude and whatnot, but her crazy 'subject zero' enhanced biotics are totally useless against the majority of enemies, most of the time. Squad Warp Ammo is strong, but not strong enough to account for her uselessness most of the time. Which makes me sad because she really should be out there ripping stuff apart.

[mundus66]

Sarevok Anchev wrote...

Thanks for nfo; i know that. Even after all i used her in the Final-Stages.
But it wont change, that no matter what i tell her, she is soooo plainly stupid in Comparison to Guys like Samara or Garrus. Im not interested in Babysitting, so my next Crew will be only tough Soldiers.
Her Powers are nice and the Extra Damage too, but she is really annoying for me (in several Ways )

She is only stupid if you have the SMG equipped. Switch to her handgun and she will be more cautious.

[Sarevok Anchev]

mundus66 wrote...

Sarevok Anchev wrote...

Thanks for nfo; i know that. Even after all i used her in the Final-Stages.
But it wont change, that no matter what i tell her, she is soooo plainly stupid in Comparison to Guys like Samara or Garrus. Im not interested in Babysitting, so my next Crew will be only tough Soldiers.
Her Powers are nice and the Extra Damage too, but she is really annoying for me (in several Ways )

She is only stupid if you have the SMG equipped. Switch to her handgun and she will be more cautious.

Really? Thanks, ill try it out
But still this would mean Babysitting the Bra-Monster

[Atmosfear3]

Sarevok Anchev wrote...

mundus66 wrote...

Sarevok Anchev wrote...

Thanks for nfo; i know that. Even after all i used her in the Final-Stages.
But it wont change, that no matter what i tell her, she is soooo plainly stupid in Comparison to Guys like Samara or Garrus. Im not interested in Babysitting, so my next Crew will be only tough Soldiers.
Her Powers are nice and the Extra Damage too, but she is really annoying for me (in several Ways )

She is only stupid if you have the SMG equipped. Switch to her handgun and she will be more cautious.

Really? Thanks, ill try it out
But still this would mean Babysitting the Bra-Monster

The thing about squadmates with automatic weapons is that they often expose themselves for longer periods of time compared to semi-auto weapons like pistols, shotguns, snipers, etc.  The AI tends to pop out, fire a few shots then go back to cover.

However, that isn't to say you shouldn't ever use automatic weapons for your squad.  They are definitely useful when you want some help taking down enemy shields/barriers.

[WillieStyle]

After watching a few Adept videos by Average Gatsby, I think people really need to re-evaluate Jacob.

In my opinion, Jacob > Grunt.

Pull+Warp is just so amazing.

Playing a soldier on Insanity, I use this combo all the time. Facing 2 or more Mercs/Geth packed together? Strip the shields off the weakest one with your assault rifle then use pull+warp to damage all of them and knock them out of cover. It's like Concossive Blast, only it doesn't suck.



The cooldown on pull is so short, I find myself spamming it just to make sure random grunts don't duck back down behind cover. And of course, charging Krogan, Geth Hunters becoming a complete non issue with spammable pull.

[Peer of the Empire]

Pull Warp is why Miranda is paired with Jacob in the beginning.

I ranked Miranda highly too but she is fragile and has surprisingly low dps. As a vanguard I don't benefit as much from her abilities as I one or two shot most enemies already.  I use her to strip shields with SMG and pair her with teammates who will benefit or synergize so that while I'm doing my thing they can actually accomplish something

She was great on Horizon on insanity with Mordin, stripping barriers away and nuking harbinger, scions and praetorian nicely, and I even forgot Mordin's omni-tool and neglected tech upgrades.  Still, Mordin was immediately replaced and I don't use Miranda that much either

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 15 février 2010 - 05:25 .

[Sanlan]

This assumes insanity. I've only played through about more than half of it, and as an adept.

S Tier -
Miranda [I don't think there is any debate on this.]

A+ Tier -
Zaaed -- He can punch through armor and shields, and has a knockdown. That covers everything but barriers -- and you can give him a good weapon to deal with those.

Garrus -- Garrus has an effective knockdown, overload and armor piercing ammo. He's a lot like Zaaed, but it takes longer to get him his armor-piercing over Zaaed. Sniper rifles are also a really good weapon for your NPC allies, because they seem a lot less suicidal with them. He and Zaaed usually made up my third after Miranda.

A Tier -
Grunt -- Just the fact that he lives so well keeps him from being dropped down to the B-tier of Mediocrity. Like Tali, he's suicidal with his shotgun, but he can take the risk and usually live. Also, he's not gimped with AI Hacking as an ability and can pick up incendiary ammo.

Thane -- Warp helps him get through barriers and armor -- heck, Warp alone may net him a spot on at least the A tier. His shredder ammunition and throw are pretty lackluster, and since we have to directly compare him to Zaaed and Garrus he really can't take a spot on the A+ list. If for some reason you don't have Zaaed, then Thane's stock goes up a whole lot.

B Tier -
Tali and Legion -- Losing a skill slot to AI Hacking and attack drone really hurt both of these. Tali's shotgun also makes her very aggressive, so I've usually had to have her use her pistol, which is useful but there are better pistol users. Legion's sniper rifle and shield boost are good, but since you have Thane, Zaaed and Garrus, he just loses out.

Samara -- Samara has good weapons, but pull and throw are sub-par abilities at insanity. Reave keeps her from being dropped down to useless because it is mighty good, but there are just better, more solid options.

Mordin -- Mordin has one top-tier ability weighed down with a lot of mediocre. Incinerate is great, but he only has pistols and you're directly comparing him to your other primary pistol user, Miranda. Miranda comes with a passive health/damage boost and Overload. Mordin isn't terrible enough to be in the failure category, but bringing him along is subpar, even in places with heavily armored enemies.

F Tier -
Jacob -- I want to like Jacob, I really, really do. He fills this Kaiden sized hole in my heart. But Pull and Barrier are really subpar, and his incendiary ammo has to be directly compared with Grunt... who offers just so much more.

Jack -- Warp Ammo doesn't save her. I'm sorry, it doesn't. Her shotgun, like Jacob and Tali, makes her beautifully suicidal, and pull and heavy shockwave just have not carried the same oomph they had for me on any difficulty other than insanity. Which is a shame, because I like watching things go flying.

[nicodeemus327]

A: Miranda
B: Everyone that's not Miranda or Jacob
C: Jacob

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 15 février 2010 - 05:23 .

[WillieStyle]

Jacob -- I want to like Jacob, I really, really do. He fills this Kaiden sized hole in my heart. But Pull and Barrier are really subpar, and his incendiary ammo has to be directly compared with Grunt... who offers just so much more.

You're doing it wrong.

[Sanlan]

WillieStyle wrote...

Jacob -- I want to like Jacob, I really, really do. He fills this Kaiden sized hole in my heart. But Pull and Barrier are really subpar, and his incendiary ammo has to be directly compared with Grunt... who offers just so much more.

You're doing it wrong.

Pull when you can make it explode is great. But, I'm just not sure synergy is as good as having someone who is solid on their own. It might be a style thing, but I prefer my team to be really good individually and combine well, whereas Jacob just seems to be more of an enabler. Which is nice, but I'm not sure if that merits a spot.

[Dr0x]

This may sound strange, but I don't like how powerful Miranda is. I completely agree that she is in her own top tier, it would be difficult to argue otherwise. However, for some reason it just does not feel right for any single squad-mate to so much better than the rest of them.

[WillieStyle]

Um Jacob is Grunt with fewer hitpoints and less regen, using the Eviscerator instead of the Clamor.

Except Jacob gets Pull while Grunt gets Concussive Shot. Once you figure out how to position your squadmates during a fight, survivability becomes a nonissue in my opinion.

Pull >>> Concussive Shot.

Ergo, Jacob > Grunt.

[Sanlan]

Double post.

Modifié par Sanlan, 15 février 2010 - 05:38 .

[Sanlan]

Entirely possible; but usually by the time pull/concussive shot can knock things down or pull things, it doesn't matter. I think it may be that I rated Grunt too high as opposed to Jacob too low, which may be a factor in whenever I tried to bring any other shotgun user along I felt like I had to babysit them a lot more than Grunt.

Modifié par Sanlan, 15 février 2010 - 05:39 .

[Peer of the Empire]

Shotgun is usually useless in the hands of npcs. Grunt has AR. At close range Grunt > Jacob as well



Pull is awesome but I just don't need it.

[WillieStyle]

but usually by the time pull/concussive shot can knock things down or pull things, it doesn't matter.

This is the mentality that leads people to underestimate pull (and biotics in general). I used to think this way. I don't any longer.
Uses of Pull:
-Strip the defenses off 1 mob in a group then pull+warp. This damages all the mobs in the group knocking them down (essentially stunning them) and throwing them out of cover. This is always useful.
-Keep an enemy whose defenses you've stripped from ducking back behind cover. The cover dance slows down combat more than any other factor in my opinion. Having a short cooldown, insta-cast power to yank defenseless enemies out of cover so you can finish them off quicker dramatically speeds up combat.
-Incapacitates Krogan, Heavy Mechs and other "elites" with health. Some enemies have so much "health" that pull becomes really useful as a single-target crowd control. This is escpecially true for Heavy Mech who do a ton of dps. Without pull, I found myself ducking behind cover for long stretches as the Heavy Mech spammed its machine gun even after I had stripped its armor. With pull, this isn't a problem.
-Insta-gib husks/abominations. Very useful for fighting waves of husks (see IFF mission). Instead of wasting time killing each husk with your weapon, just strip its armor then cast Pull. This almost doubles my dps against husks.  Pull is escpecially great for this because of its incredibly short cooldown.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 15 février 2010 - 05:46 .

[WillieStyle]

Also, the new Eviscerator makes shotguns useful in the hands of NPCs.
Finally, the "I don't need it" argument is kinda weak. Technically, you don't need anything. It's perfectly possible to solo ME2 on Insanity without using any squadmates. The question isn't which squadmates are needed (none are). The question is, which squamates are useful and in what ways.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 15 février 2010 - 05:54 .

[Malanek]

mundus66 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Interesting what people think. The only one I don't really like is Samara. Once her loyalty mission is completed it changes round a bit, but that is most of the game and before that she is significantly weaker. Miranda is easily the best. I think Mordin is underrated here, incinerate is very useful in certain armour heavy areas early in the game. Zaeed seems a bit underrated as well, he seems to fall less often than anyone. I actually like the combination of Miranda, Jack plus Adept or Sentinal. You can get quite a lot of biotic damage early and focus on that.
Despite playing through 3 times plus three other games on the go I don't feel confident in answering this question. I would tentatively say
1 Miranda
2 Everyone else
3 Samara

How is Samara worst? If you play lower than Insanity i think most could agree on that the ultimate team is Miranda and Samara since reave being sick and she has good cc. On insanity its still awesome but warp is slightly better, which makes her less useful than Morinth (dominate) and other squad mates. Would still but her in top 5 though.

You don't get reave until relatively late in the game. I did comment that she gets better after her loyalty mission. However for the majority of the game she has pull, throw and is one of the most fragile. Every single other character starts with at least one much better ability.

[mattp420]

Miranda is to squad mates as Tiger Woods is to the PGA tour.